Limerence - How to date if you never had anything significant so far?

[kevon]

3 hours ago, AndyPandy said:

So true. To add, in the case of men, it doesn't mean that they were even being truthful about those numbers and the experiences and on a darker note, it doesn't mean that they were actually consensual, legal or moral episodes. I've heard stories of men who racked up experiences and so-called body counts through despicable acts. Female friends and acquaintances have confided in me about terrible incidences that some predator/abuser is probably trumpeting somewhere as a proud conquest.

Me personally, I'd rather have fond memories of genuine affection and intimacy within one special person or a select few (culminating in me finding that special person) than hordes of casual sex, flings and ONS. A segment of my life has fallen into areas of the latter category and it can be fun in the short-term but overall in the long run, unfulfilling. There's also the health angle that even when you practice safer-sex, there are still things that you can catch and a large body count increases the risk of that happening.

Totally agree. Obviously the greater your level of social engagement, the increased likelihood of meeting people but there's no reason why you can't have a balance between the two. It works for me. Or, merging socialising with your interests and hobbies. Speaking of which...

A tremendous amount of whom are yearning to meet men who share their interests and no doubt become frustrated with encountering anti-intellectual types who couldn't care less their pastimes and hobbies. As someone with geeky/nerdy elements, this is a reminder that I should be trying to meet these types of women! 😁

Coders too. 😉

Excellent advice. It's also important to become more at ease with the danger of rejection. Easier said than done, of course. On that note...

Ok, I can assure you that this is not exclusive to you - it happens to millions of people across the planet. I've been ghosted more times than a haunted house. It's horrible and makes you doubt your worth but what's important to always remember about being ghosted (which is an act of extreme cowardice) and generally rejected is that it's really a blessing in disguise because anyone who would treat us so badly and fail to recognise our value, never deserved us in the first place.

I've gotten out of this rut by heeding the words of a mentor who counselled me a couple of years ago when I was crestfallen to never feel worthless or unwanted because of other people's behaviour. It's nearly always a reflection on them - not us. Don't try too hard and when you do experience rejections, give yourself some time (but not too long and don't dwell!) to bounce back and then continue. Basically, perseverance and positivity are key.

Oh and do not go down the route of listening to PUA morons - they are misogynistic creeps and snake oil salesmen.

i dont want to sound inpolite or rash, but i could compare myself with billions of starving african people who dont have food or love.

but here iam, the single weird brown guy nobody wants to hang out with. some also told my friends a few years ago, they dont feel comfortable to hang out with a potential predator. i never did anything and i got accusations like this, which is why i feel even more anxious. i never experiences anything closely remote to sex/ONS and yet everyone brushes it off as it is nothing worth noting.

[smackie9]

Not all therapists are the same...if this one isn't working for you find another one. I worked with someone who suffered from social anxiety...she had greatly improved with behavioral therapy. 

[kevon]

40 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

But do you actually try what they tell you? For example, do they tell you to go out and socialize and do you try to mix up with people? 

i tried. more than "wrong" numbers and "you are a nice guy, but..." wasnt in for me yet.

[catfeeder]

3 hours ago, kevon said:

my therapist is atm a psychoanalytical one. they tell me to first work on myself, but this somehow drags on and i dont see any improvement, hence iam also struggling therapy-wise.

Consider asking him/her for a referral to some resources and possibly some group work to help you improve your social life. Tell them that you're feeling trapped in navel gazing solo, and you want to expand your social reach. Continue asking for this help in each session until they offer you the help you want.

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, kevon said:

3 hours ago, Kwothe28 said:

But do you actually try what they tell you? For example, do they tell you to go out and socialize and do you try to mix up with people? 

i tried. more than "wrong" numbers and "you are a nice guy, but..." wasnt in for me yet.

You're focusing on the wrong stuff. Mixing with people isn't about asking for numbers from women. It's to expand your social life--in general. Forming friendships so that you'll have people to go out with and do stuff. From there you meet more and more people, and your social life will be healthy enough to keep meeting women until you strike the right simpatico.

You'll need to learn how to crawl and walk before you can run. If you're not willing to do that, then here you are.

[AndyPandy]

2 hours ago, kevon said:

i dont want to sound inpolite or rash, but i could compare myself with billions of starving african people who dont have food or love.

Huh?

2 hours ago, kevon said:

but here iam, the single weird brown guy nobody wants to hang out with.

I'm going to be frank here and it's for your own good. You do yourself absolutely no favours with wallowing around in self-pity. I'm a black guy and yet despite prejudice and bigotry I manage to find people who are happy to hang out with me - and more. Sometimes it's effortless and on other occasions I have to make an effort and put myself out there and take risks.

It doesn't always pay off but I know that I'll have no chance of any success with a negative, defeatist attitude. If you project negativity then that turns people off - in romance and friendship. Things won't change for you till you change your mindset. Hopefully you'll get there.

Good luck. 🙂

[catfeeder]

2 hours ago, kevon said:

i dont want to sound inpolite or rash, but i could compare myself with billions of starving african people who dont have food or love.

Sounds like you're only interested in knocking down every suggestion you receive in order to stay exactly where you are. You're the one in control of playing out your own future differently than you have in the past. If you're stuck on viewing every suggestion through your lens of past efforts, then here you are. Do something differently or not--it's up to you.

[kevon]

On 6/10/2024 at 6:30 PM, catfeeder said:

You mentioned having a therapist. What has been his/her advice on improving your social life? Consider asking him/her for a referral to some resources and possibly some group work to help you.

his advice was to not care anymore about asking out any woman and try to be with myself(i also struggle with this, simply because i always have FOMO and i try to desperately be social and outside)

[kevon]

On 6/11/2024 at 7:27 PM, AndyPandy said:

Huh?

I'm going to be frank here and it's for your own good. You do yourself absolutely no favours with wallowing around in self-pity. I'm a black guy and yet despite prejudice and bigotry I manage to find people who are happy to hang out with me - and more. Sometimes it's effortless and on other occasions I have to make an effort and put myself out there and take risks.

It doesn't always pay off but I know that I'll have no chance of any success with a negative, defeatist attitude. If you project negativity then that turns people off - in romance and friendship. Things won't change for you till you change your mindset. Hopefully you'll get there.

Good luck. 🙂

yes, i feel very stuck and you have used very wise and direct words: negative, defeatist.

and i would love to change this. but the moment i step out and make a move, i feel the judging and the "no-interest" of others which leave me depressed. 

[Capricorn3]

On 6/12/2024 at 3:34 AM, catfeeder said:

Sounds like you're only interested in knocking down every suggestion you receive in order to stay exactly where you are. You're the one in control of playing out your own future differently than you have in the past. If you're stuck on viewing every suggestion through your lens of past efforts, then here you are. Do something differently or not--it's up to you.

^ This is worth repeating.  OP, as you say, you are negative and defeatist.  Wallowing in self-pity will get you nowhere (as you have noticed).  Choice is yours - change the negative/defeatist attitude or carry on as you are.  If you change nothing, nothing will change (for you).

[kevon]

22 minutes ago, Capricorn3 said:

^ This is worth repeating.  OP, as you say, you are negative and defeatist.  Wallowing in self-pity will get you nowhere (as you have noticed).  Choice is yours - change the negative/defeatist attitude or carry on as you are.  If you change nothing, nothing will change (for you).

i unintendedly get back to this kind of behaviour which is where i struggle...

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, kevon said:

i unintendedly get back to this kind of behaviour which is where i struggle...

No it's intentional -when you accept that you will know you can do the work to make a different choice.

[AndyPandy]

5 hours ago, kevon said:

yes, i feel very stuck and you have used very wise and direct words: negative, defeatist.

At the moment you're in a rut and it can happen very easily when you're bombarded with disappointments and knock-backs but it doesn't mean that you'll be in one for the rest of your life. It won't happen overnight and it will require determination and perseverance but you'll get there.

5 hours ago, kevon said:

and i would love to change this. but the moment i step out and make a move, i feel the judging and the "no-interest" of others which leave me depressed. 

Forget the judgemental people and those who don't have any interest in you. The loss is theirs! Focus on the important goal of sifting through them to find people who won't judge and do have interest in you. They exist but unfortunately it's easy to lose sight of that because of the constant, toxic and inadequate people that come our way.

The next time you experience a rejection or disappointment, remind yourself that there are billions of people on this planet and some of them are bound to want to be your friend - and perhaps some of them might want to be more than that.

You'll succeed. 🙂

[ShySoul]

10 hours ago, kevon said:

and i would love to change this. but the moment i step out and make a move, i feel the judging and the "no-interest" of others which leave me depressed. 

The moment you realize that the opinions and judgments of others don't matter is the moment you gain a new perspective. It's the moment you can be free. Judgemental people aren't worth your time or effort. They aren't worth your anger, fears, or tears. They shouldn't define your life. 

The one person's opinions of you who matters is you. Feel proud of the person you are and life your life as you want to. Don't worry about stepping out and making a move. Just make the moves that make you feel good about you. Find the things that you love, that brings out the postive energy inside you. Don't dwell on the negatives. When you shift to focusing on the good, that draws more positivity to you. And eventually, the good people will find you.

[graphicdesigner]

I have an ex-friend who is just like you, OP. He is my ex-friend because I couldn't stand his defeatist and depressing attitude. It was getting out of hand. Everything revolved around him and his situation of being single at 49 and never having kids. It also doesn't help that he's been unemployed for as long as I've known him and still lives with his dad, and never went to college. He puts himself out there by putting up a profile on OLD sites, to no avail. He can't even afford to take anybody out, yet pay for a subscription. 

It got to the point where he hated when I would talk about my late husband and my daughter because it reminded him that he has never been married and doesn't have kids. I don't want a friend like that in my life. Ironically, we met through our online video game (yes, I'm also a gamer and have been for over 14 years), and he revolves his world around this video game. It's sad, really.

Every suggestion I would give him, he would make excuses not to follow my advice to meet women. He only felt sorry for himself. It's all he talked about. I couldn't take it anymore. Then it got really bad when he started developing a crush on me—even though I'm 10 years older than him—and it really got in the way of our friendship. He would get mad and jealous when I started dating and seeing other men. I was done at that point, and realized he wasn't a true friend. 

I suggested therapy but he turned it down because his sister had committed suicide several years ago and was seeing a therapist at the time, so he felt that if it didn't work for her, it wouldn't work for him. So sad. Please don't end up like this, OP. You seem like you have a lot more going for you than he does. At least you have a good job. Good luck!

[kevon]

16 hours ago, graphicdesigner said:

I have an ex-friend who is just like you, OP. He is my ex-friend because I couldn't stand his defeatist and depressing attitude. It was getting out of hand. Everything revolved around him and his situation of being single at 49 and never having kids. It also doesn't help that he's been unemployed for as long as I've known him and still lives with his dad, and never went to college. He puts himself out there by putting up a profile on OLD sites, to no avail. He can't even afford to take anybody out, yet pay for a subscription. 

It got to the point where he hated when I would talk about my late husband and my daughter because it reminded him that he has never been married and doesn't have kids. I don't want a friend like that in my life. Ironically, we met through our online video game (yes, I'm also a gamer and have been for over 14 years), and he revolves his world around this video game. It's sad, really.

Every suggestion I would give him, he would make excuses not to follow my advice to meet women. He only felt sorry for himself. It's all he talked about. I couldn't take it anymore. Then it got really bad when he started developing a crush on me—even though I'm 10 years older than him—and it really got in the way of our friendship. He would get mad and jealous when I started dating and seeing other men. I was done at that point, and realized he wasn't a true friend. 

I suggested therapy but he turned it down because his sister had committed suicide several years ago and was seeing a therapist at the time, so he felt that if it didn't work for her, it wouldn't work for him. So sad. Please don't end up like this, OP. You seem like you have a lot more going for you than he does. At least you have a good job. Good luck!

yeah, sounds very much like me, because thanks to my therapist, i know that i had an depressed attitude since 2nd grade when my parents started to lock me in my room for several hours a day. i never knew this is considered child abuse and thought this is normal for parents to do with their children. so as long as i can remember i think from time to time of suicide.

it kills me to see my cousin who is 17 having his 2nd or 3rd girlfriend and me never even touched a woman.

i try to focus on other things, trying things outside of my comfortzone. i try to regularly go outside instead of hanging out in my basement, but finding new people to hang out with me seems at the moment very hard. i barely find anyone who would like to do new activities with me.

i have some online friends from the early ragnarok-online days, but its all guys and most of them are married and not interested in doing something outside of playing videogames.

 

[kevon]

On 6/17/2024 at 7:52 PM, AndyPandy said:

At the moment you're in a rut and it can happen very easily when you're bombarded with disappointments and knock-backs but it doesn't mean that you'll be in one for the rest of your life. It won't happen overnight and it will require determination and perseverance but you'll get there.

Forget the judgemental people and those who don't have any interest in you. The loss is theirs! Focus on the important goal of sifting through them to find people who won't judge and do have interest in you. They exist but unfortunately it's easy to lose sight of that because of the constant, toxic and inadequate people that come our way.

The next time you experience a rejection or disappointment, remind yourself that there are billions of people on this planet and some of them are bound to want to be your friend - and perhaps some of them might want to be more than that.

You'll succeed. 🙂

i dont know, i havent had much luck so far. most people give me bad comments about me or iam always interested in the wrong people. i never see anyone taking a step into my direction. reminding myself that billions of people do not care about me or would never be a friend of mine is soulcrushing...

how are you doing this, @AndyPandy

[AndyPandy]

2 hours ago, kevon said:

i dont know, i havent had much luck so far. most people give me bad comments about me or iam always interested in the wrong people.

Unfortunately there are always unhappy, pathetic and toxic people who have to put down others to feel big about themselves but you have to recognise and never forget that their horrible behaviour says far more about their own inner problems than it does about us.

2 hours ago, kevon said:

i never see anyone taking a step into my direction.

Most of us have to make the first move towards others. On the whole, things and people are not going to come to you. It does and can happen but the likelihood is low.

3 hours ago, kevon said:

reminding myself that billions of people do not care about me or would never be a friend of mine is soulcrushing...

Billions of people do not even know that you exist - and the same goes for most of us who are not celebrities or in the public eye somehow. If you continue to think so negatively and unfairly about yourself then you will not succeed and it will become a self-defeating prophecy.

3 hours ago, kevon said:

how are you doing this, @AndyPandy

By continuing to put myself out there in the world and take risks and paying attention to what works best for me and tailoring my future actions accordingly. This is something that you can also do but you have to stop punishing yourself when you experience failure or a mishap.

[Batya33]

16 minutes ago, AndyPandy said:

By continuing to put myself out there in the world and take risks and paying attention to what works best for me and tailoring my future actions accordingly. This is something that you can also do but you have to stop punishing yourself when you experience failure or a mishap.

I had to do the same. I let men do the asking out - that worked much better given when I did my dating and my goals with dating - but I put myself out there over and over again in so many different social situations.  And was on dating sites, personal ads, etc.  For many years.  With zero guarantees of meeting the right person for me.

How I met my future husband - as I've written here -on his first day of work and my 42nd day or so they had a huge welcome breakfast buffet for the new employees. I knew of all the newbies he knew no one as he hadn't done the same summer internship.  I also knew he grew up near me (we were given printed bios of the newbies).  So I kinda felt sorry for him. 

I saw him in the crowded conference room, crossed the room, said hi and introduced myself.  He was so so shy back then.  We were not going to be working together or on the same floor.  This was in the mid 90s.  I know for sure had I not done this -chatted with him, welcomed him - I don't think we'd ever have dated - he was too shy to approach me at work, and then we only saw each other twice at company events over the next 9 months. His friends got him on a conference call to convince him to ask me to lunch.  Our first lunch was 9 months after we first met.  We got engaged and broke up right before the wedding a few years later.

Fast forward and I had to be proactive again.  We met for a catch up dinner -he asked - platonic - almost 8 years later.  Sparks flew and by now we were in our late 30s and he no longer lived in our home city.  Again I had to be proactive.  Even though he asked to meet me again a week later, another platonic evening, he then didn't contact me for over a week. 

So I - really nervous -made up an excuse to contact him again (I'd emailed to thank him/follow up on the homemade cookies I'd given him and he'd responded but with no other plans) - he apparently was going to contact me and I believe there was a sort of reflection time plus busy time he needed to decide what to do next as far as "us" - but again I had to put myself out there.  At the same time I was dating people and putting myself out there that way.  It's really hard! That 3rd meeting -we got back together.  We're back together almost 19 years and married 15.  

I am really sorry you were treated that way as a child. I'm really glad you're getting help. I didn't have a normal childhood in certain respects.  I know of people in your situation who went on to find happy marriages and relationships and people who married in their 20s and it was a bad situation, they got out, got therapy and remarried happily. No guarantees but yes you have to be out there, out there with reasonable confidence, out there knowing your worth.  Walking tall and carrying yourself like you matter.  Because  you do.