Am I asking too much? Is it time to leave?

[Belle2024]

I’ve been trying to get my partner(male) of 15 years to be more emotionally available. Everytime I try to tell him how I feel about something or what would be helpful in the relationship he always gets angry, dismissive, gaslights me, shift blames or will finally acknowledge but never follow through with actions. I am 40 years old (female) and there is zero intimacy. He doesn’t initiate it and I don’t either. I’ve told him I need to feel more connected emotionally before I can be physical again. Just last evening we were talking about our son, I got emotional talking about how much I love our son and started crying a little bit, he just looked off into space and didn’t seem to care I was crying, I told him, in times like this it would be nice if you offered some support, comfort, console or just showed you cared. He told me he doesn’t have to validate all my feelings, he’s said this multiple times now. Making me feel worse. Correct me if I am wrong but I don’t feel that it’s “validating” my feelings by caring about your partner and offering them a hug or some emotional support or empathy while they are emotional. And shouldn’t you want to validate your partners feelings anyways? 
Anyway, it’s been years of this. I do love him but I am 40 and not married, and trying to decide if I want the rest of my life to feel this way. Or if maybe I am asking too much from him. 
For context: I don’t ask for much. I just want to feel like my partner cares about how I feel. But being with him for so long, and having a 12 year old son together, makes things complicated. Any advice is helpful. Thank you. 

[Batya33]

You can't force or convince someone to act like they care much less in the way you want them to. He's not that into you and I'm sorry!  I would separate and co-parent.  He's not into the needy nagging and you should be with someone where it's natural to show that you care.

[Belle2024]

Well he shows he cares in a lot of other ways, so I wouldnt suggest he’s not into me. Also, being together 15 years says a lot. I wouldn’t say I’m needy for wanting my partner to be more emotionally available, I think that’s the bare minimum and an important foundation of a relationship. Not sure where you came up with me nagging either lol Im wondering if these issues are fixable, should I just tolerate it because he does a lot for me in other areas. Just some light advice or relatable context. 

[smackie9]

I think you deserve better....nothing wrong with starting over, self discovery, and independence. Life is too short to keep being unfulfilled.  Once you get out of this environment you will have time to reflect and really see how bad things really are/were. 

[Coily]

Has he always been this way or is it something new(ish)? The same question applies to your desire for you two to be more emotionally conversant?

When you talk to him about wanting your emotional needs met, are you in an emotional state? Or is it about the same type of topic?

While I think you are valid in wanting that sort of reciprocation, I don't know if it's fair that you hinge your entire relationship upon that point. As you mention he does a lot for you in other ways, is there something else going on between the two of you? Also curious what you do to validate him, or is it dependent on his emotional availability?

In my opinion you need to explore other ways that the relationship works, how to get on the same page without either of you are feeling that you are being fake to the other.

[rainbowsandroses]

4 hours ago, Mariah2024 said:

Well he shows he cares in a lot of other ways...

^^I would suggest stop trying to get him to be someone he's clearly not (emotionally expressive) and focus on what he does give you and brings to your relationship.

You cannot force a man into being emotionally expressive, it never works. 

And why would you want to?  You shouldn't have to ask/beg your partner to comfort you or validate you as YOU need.

Even if he did comply, it wouldn't be natural coming from his heart and his own nature, it would be because you had to ask. 

He'd "go through the motions" (giving you a hug or whatever else you needed) but it wouldn't be sincere so why bother asking? 

I never understood the point of doing that.

You say he shows he cares in other ways, so appreciate and love him for those things and learn to self-soothe and give yourself what you need when you seek comfort or validation.

IOW, he is who he IS.  Either accept and love him "as is" and for the ways he does show he cares, or leave.

 

 

[Belle2024]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess unless you knew this relationship more in depth, it’s hard to understand. I’ve never been able to talk about my feelings to him, I’ve never been able to tell him if I need more of something or something is bothering me without him turning into an argument. Especially when it has to do with him. I’ve been dismissed our whole relationship when it comes to this. He’s a highly defensive person and takes everything I say as an attack. It’s extremely hard to communicate with someone like this. Yes he does a lot for the relationship in other ways and so do I. But I guess I’m starting to think that being able to communicate and care about your partners feelings is the bare minimum to ask and highly important, and especially because I don’t come at him from an attacking and nagging standpoint. I’ve done my therapy and worked in areas on myself and he hasn’t. I feel like it’s trying to talk to an angry teenager sometimes. 
I guess I just have to make a decision. 
Thanks anyways 

[rainbowsandroses]

20 minutes ago, Mariah2024 said:

Thanks for all the replies. I guess unless you knew this relationship more in depth, it’s hard to understand. I’ve never been able to talk about my feelings to him, I’ve never been able to tell him if I need more of something or something is bothering me without him turning into an argument. Especially when it has to do with him. I’ve been dismissed our whole relationship when it comes to this. He’s a highly defensive person and takes everything I say as an attack. It’s extremely hard to communicate with someone like this. Yes he does a lot for the relationship in other ways and so do I. But I guess I’m starting to think that being able to communicate and care about your partners feelings is the bare minimum to ask and highly important, and especially because I don’t come at him from an attacking and nagging standpoint. I’ve done my therapy and worked in areas on myself and he hasn’t. I feel like it’s trying to talk to an angry teenager sometimes. 
I guess I just have to make a decision. 
Thanks anyways 

May I ask why you're still in this relationship since you're so clearly unhappy?

It doesn't appear you have much respect for him or even like him much!  I'm sure HE feels that from you as well which may add to HIS own dismissive behavior.  

It takes two people after all to develop such a toxic and dysfunctional dynamic. 

So why are you still there?  You're not married, you could leave any time.

You're not doing your kids any favors by staying under the circumstances as you describe; they're witnessing all this hostility and tension no matter how hard you try to hide it or your disdain for their father. 

It's damaging to them and will negatively impact them when they become adults and have their own relationships.

If you don't want to answer the question to us, then at least ask yourself that question.

There is no love here OP, just leave and start anew and fresh is my advice.

 

 

 

[Batya33]

30 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

^^I would suggest stop trying to get him to be someone he's clearly not (emotionally expressive) and focus on what he does give you and brings to your relationship.

You cannot force a man into being emotionally expressive, it never works. 

And why would you want to?  You shouldn't have to ask/beg your partner to comfort you or validate you as YOU need.

Even if he did comply, it wouldn't be natural coming from his heart and his own nature, it would be because you had to ask. 

He'd "go through the motions" (giving you a hug or whatever else you needed) but it wouldn't be sincere so why bother asking? 

I never understood the point of doing that.

You say he shows he cares in other ways, so appreciate and love him for those things and learn to self-soothe and give yourself what you need when you seek comfort or validation.

IOW, he is who he IS.  Either accept and love him "as is" and for the ways he does show he cares, or leave.

 

 

This is what I meant.  I don't think he's into you in the way you want him to be.

[Batya33]

19 minutes ago, Belle2024 said:

Thanks for all the replies. I guess unless you knew this relationship more in depth, it’s hard to understand. I’ve never been able to talk about my feelings to him, I’ve never been able to tell him if I need more of something or something is bothering me without him turning into an argument. Especially when it has to do with him. I’ve been dismissed our whole relationship when it comes to this. He’s a highly defensive person and takes everything I say as an attack. It’s extremely hard to communicate with someone like this. Yes he does a lot for the relationship in other ways and so do I. But I guess I’m starting to think that being able to communicate and care about your partners feelings is the bare minimum to ask and highly important, and especially because I don’t come at him from an attacking and nagging standpoint. I’ve done my therapy and worked in areas on myself and he hasn’t. I feel like it’s trying to talk to an angry teenager sometimes. 
I guess I just have to make a decision. 
Thanks anyways 

Obviously no one has the inside view.  I highly recommend search up Esther Perel's podcasts especially her most recent episode. About relationship communication.  Why have you chosen to stay with a person where there is this extreme "never been able to" and "I've been dismissed" when it comes to this?

Is he a highly defensive person with everyone -or just with you?

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Belle2024 said:

. I am 40 years old (female) and there is zero intimacy. He doesn’t initiate it and I don’t either. I’ve told him I need to feel more connected emotionally before I can be physical again. But being with him for so long, and having a 12 year old son together, makes things complicated. 

Sorry this is happening. Do you both work and contribute roughly equally financially and to the household chores and responsibilities?

What exactly are the arguments and relationship talks about and what exactly do you want him to go to therapy for? Are you trying to fix and change him?

How long has he been withdrawn? How is his relationship with your son? 

What does your therapist suggest? Have you seen a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health and gotten some tests done for example for hormonal or depressive disorders? 

Please do the opposite of everything you are doing. Step back completely. If you feel you're talking to a brick wall, walk away. Do not cry.

Keep conversations only about practical things. Childcare, household, finances. Be as robotic as possible and match his attitude. 

Is this possible there's someone else? Are any of these arguments about getting legally married? 

[rainbowsandroses]

14 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I highly recommend search up Esther Perel's podcasts especially her most recent episode.

I second this!!  She has many great videos and podcasts and I have learned a TON from her!  

[rainbowsandroses]

@Belle2024to add to my previous about learning to self-soothe and giving yourself the comfort and validation you need, what has happened in my own relationships is that once I backed off and stopped attempting to "talk" to him (which in HIS mind came off as nagging), he came closer and began giving me what I had initially needed without me having to ask him for it or talk to him about it. 

Just something to consider, again it takes two. 

Good luck. 😀

[lostandhurt]

Are you asking to much?  No you are not. If partners cannot or will not support each other emotionally then why be in a relationship with them or anyone for that matter?  Seriously, is it just to get a better cell phone plan?

 If he has always been like this then he is not going to change and since he gets defensive and angry when you try and discuss issues it is highly unlikely this is fixable.

The hard part in all this is you have chosen to stay all these years because it was the safe bet, leaving means going it all alone which is scary.  You have two choices:

-Stay and accept this will always be like this and endure forever or

-Start making a plan to break up.  No threats, no ultimatums just plan out how you can go it alone with your son. 

For a resolution to be achieved between two people BOTH have to want it, he clearly is emotionally unavailable and likes things the way they are.

Lost

[Capricorn3]

5 hours ago, Belle2024 said:

 I’ve never been able to talk about my feelings to him, I’ve never been able to tell him if I need more of something or something is bothering me without him turning into an argument. Especially when it has to do with him. I’ve been dismissed our whole relationship when it comes to this. He’s a highly defensive person and takes everything I say as an attack. It’s extremely hard to communicate with someone like this.  But I guess I’m starting to think that being able to communicate and care about your partners feelings is the bare minimum to ask and highly important, and especially because I don’t come at him from an attacking and nagging standpoint. I’ve done my therapy and worked in areas on myself and he hasn’t. I feel like it’s trying to talk to an angry teenager sometimes.

Going by what you describe above, you need to ask yourself if this is how you want to live the rest of your life?    (I would pack my bags and head in the opposite direction).  Life is too short and being unhappy for the next 40 years?  No.  This man sounds totally emotionally unavailable.

[smackie9]

maybe this can help:

 

https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/

[rainbowsandroses]

14 hours ago, Belle2024 said:

Not sure where you came up with me nagging either...

Belle, I will probably get some flack for this, but something I learned about some men through my own experiences and also from therapy was this:

I don't think you're nagging but HE might.  Many men (NOT all) are like this, they hear a woman asking for "more" -- more affection, more attention, more validation, more comfort and they interpret that as meaning they (the man) are NOT good enough "as he is" and they get defensive.  They may not even be aware of those feelings, and may just view it as nagging and you being a needy *****.   Even though that was NOT your intention at all.

It's NOT right but for some men, it's the reality.  Your boyfriend may be one of those men.

I have had boyfriends like this, and I eventually learned to STOP asking.  You can ask him to fix the sink, or your flat tire etc but when it comes to asking for comfort, emotional support or validation, again it may cause him to feel inadequate like he's not enough "as he is," so naturally he's gonna get defensive, dismissive, angry even, etc.

It would be like asking an introverted person to be more outgoing at a party, to interact with people, to be more conversational, interesting, entertaining etc, like an extroverted person would.   The message being - you're not good enough as you are.  I "need" you to be (fill in the blank).

I am an introverted person and if my boyfriend ever asked that of me (to be someone OTHER than who I AM), I can't say how I would respond because it's never happened, but I would NOT like it or appreciate it.

I am curious what types of things you are asking, can you give some examples?  

Something else I learned is that you can never change how a man (or anyone) acts or reacts, you can only change how YOU choose to respond to how they act and react.

If you're not inclined to leaving this relationship, try backing off on the asking, the "talks," the crying and learn to self-soothe and give yourself what you need or seek it from friends, family (your therapist?) and see what happens.

Feeling accepted as we are (flaws and all), is so important imo.  As I and others have said, if you are unable to accept him as he is, as flawed as he is, then it's time to consider whether he is the right man and this is the right relationship for you.

Again good luck, I hope it works out for you the way you want.

 

 

[lostandhurt]

This is coming from a man that was raised by my father to be tough as nails and my heart was hard once a long time ago.

 Men grow and change just like anyone can.  This man has a son which the OP carried and gave birth to which should break down the walls of even the hardest heart.  After 15 years no matter how good or bad the relationship has been he should be concerned for her and want her to be happy.  If anyone is sitting with their partner and they begin to cry how cold of a person are you to ignore it?  How uncaring?

 It isn't nagging, he just doesn't want to hear it because he would have to put in some effort to try and be emotionally available.  He simply may not be capable in his current state. I hope your son is not imprinting on his father on how to treat the ones you love and show compassion and caring towards others.

My father was a good man that did the best he could by me with the way he was raised in Texas. He was left handed so his father tied his left arm behind his back at the dinner table because left handed people are not allowed where they lived and no son of his was going to be a lefty. There was no softness as that was considered weakness.  Some men overcome their upbringing while others hide behind it.

 Lost 

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, lostandhurt said:

If anyone is sitting with their partner and they begin to cry how cold of a person are you to ignore it?  How uncaring?

I agree with you but would like to point out that we are only hearing one side of this extremely unhealthy dynamic the OP and her boyfriend have developed together. 

And yes on its face without the proper context, of course if your partner is hurt and crying, you should offer comfort.

However I know women who use tears as a play for sympathy, and when the tears are in response to (in her mind) some 'wrong' her boyfriend has done, like not giving her the emotional support she needs when she needs it, her tears can be seen (in her boyfriend's eyes) as a sort of guilt trip and manipulation.

I witnessed this type of unhealthy dynamic growing up between my mom and late dad.  My mom was extremely manipulative in this regard, she never accepted that my beautiful dad showed and expressed his love in other ways - by "doing."

My dad was about as non-emotional as they come, emotionally unexpressive, my brothers are the same. 

However both my dad and my brothers had/have deep DEEP feelings/emotions, which was (and is) shown to me when it truly counted/counts and when I truly needed/need it.  

My dad taught me to self-soothe, to be emotionally self-sufficient, that it was MY job to manage my emotions and to accept my boyfriend(s) as IS, and to appreciate the ways he does show he cares. 

If I absolutely cannot, then it's best to leave the relationship which I've done in past relationships.

So I learned to self-soothe and to manage my own emotions, the result of which (in some relationships) was my boyfriend gave me his support naturally on his own without me having to ask, or cry or whatever.

Why?  Because he felt accepted and loved by me AS IS. 

I am NOT suggesting the OP is in any way being manipulative, all I'm saying is that how a couple interacts together is never black and white as to say the man "should" always offer support and comfort and if he doesn't he's a ****.

And also, that things are not always as they appear to be on the outside such that if a man (or woman) isn't emotionally expressive, it automatically means he/she is a selfish, uncaring ***.

Relationships and how a couple interacts and the dynamic they have established involves both of them.

Not one being a selfish uncaring *** and the other being or feeling like the innocent victim of that.

JMO

 

 

[Belle2024]

Rainbows and roses, what makes you think I’m some manipulative liar? 
It sounds to me like you are assuming this and projecting from your own experience. 
I am not talking about a specific argument my partner and I had, I’m talking in terms of overall. Overall, for our entire relationship he’s never once cared when I’m upset or crying, I could be in my room upset all evening and won’t come in to talk to me or try to work it out. This particular situation I wrote in about wasn’t even an argument that he and I had; it was a discussion about how much I love our son and how I worry about him and I just got emotional and he stared off into space and didnt even acknowledge me being upset, and in the past when I would get upset (sad or cry) because of how he treated me, he would get more angry and gaslight me, not capable of talking, always turning everything into an argument and taking my feelings as an attack on him. 
I agree with Lostandhurt, men are capable just like women are; they are intelligent, self aware human beings and I believe for years women (and men) have been gaslit into thinking they are these incapable, incompetent cavemen who aren’t able to process emotion and excuses are always made for them as to why they get angry, why they get mad, why they yell, why they hit, why they abuse, “that’s just how men are” I don’t agree. Men are capable and it comes down to having the introspective to see how you’re behaving is affecting someone else and caring enough to change. I don’t think it’s an issue with male or female, I think it’s an issue with personality type. 
I’m not on here getting into every little detail of how our relationship is and it’s irrelevant anyways.  My concern was him not caring when I am upset and crying, and I’d like to keep it to that subject instead of trying to dissect my entire relationship. 
Thanks to others for opinions and for the podcast suggestion. 
This is clearly a decision I can only make. I guess in times like these people reach out for some suggestions, some relatable context, some support etc., not to be, yet again gaslit into thinking they could be the problem. 
 

[Batya33]

I think people can change especially when they care. I have had to -change I mean in how I express emotions and caring and not only in romantic relationships.  I had to change and learn a lot when my close relative and dear friend was dying of cancer - a new and tragic experience -so I could be there for her and her husband in the best way possible -my way wasn't "wrong" and it was caring and with good intentions but when you care about another person you want to be there for them in the way they need you to be if at all possible.

OTOH it's also on us in a marital/committed relationship to be accepting of the other person's temperament/personality -or -leave.  As long as the intentions are genuine.  I'm a Type A married to a Type B and yesterday my husband at a routine medical exam got a scary diagnosis which meant he stayed there for 6 hours for more tests.  With him I know he's not going to tell me to come and be with him so I have to figure it out -which is frustrating.  But he's not going to change all of a sudden and get all emotional and make it easy for me (and sure it's also typical man I guess??). 

So I'm not going to pick that battle so to speak -I accept that part of him.  But for sure in other situations I've told him outright - you're acting like this is no big deal - I don't feel cared for.  He DOES care so he does his very best - when I say that -and rarely gets defensive.  But again there's a limit to how he's going to react according to my wishes or some sort of script. 

It's a balance -but if 2 people love and care and are committed they desire to compromise, desire to accommodate and then "that's just the way she is" is actually fine.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, Belle2024 said:

Rainbows and roses, what makes you think I’m some manipulative liar? 

I don't, I was speaking generally.

6 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I am NOT suggesting the OP is in any way being manipulative,

 

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, Belle2024 said:

It sounds to me like you are assuming this and projecting from your own experience. 

Yes, I was projecting to a degree.

7 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I witnessed this type of unhealthy dynamic growing up between my mom and late dad.  My mom was extremely manipulative in this regard, she never accepted that my beautiful dad showed and expressed his love in other ways - by "doing."

I think in a close relationship, understanding each other and why each of you react and respond the way you do is so important.

Have you tried to do that with him?  Understand why he reacts the way he does?  Instead of assuming he's an insensitive *****.  

NOT accusing, just asking. 

Have you tried couple's therapy at all?

There are some people who feel discomfort at any show of emotion, and don't know how to respond. This may be why he looks into space when he sees you crying or emotional, I don't know.  But I know men like this, women too!  

I've seen otherwise loving caring people laugh at funerals! Then burst into tears.

Our own emotions and reactions can often be confusing and a challenge to understand sometimes.  It's been true for me and I admit I haven't always responded in the best way I could.  

But through understanding, yourself and each other, each of us can learn, grow and evolve.  

JMO, but if you want to work this out, especially since he treats you well in other ways which I assume is what has kept you there all these years, maybe try a different approach?  Like making an attempt to understand him and why he becomes so dismissive when he sees you so emotional?  For him too, with you, it's a two-way street.

A good qualified couples therapist can help you both through this process.  IF he is willing, he may not be which would be unfortunate.

Just something to consider that's all, again assuming you want to try and work this out. 

If you don't, that's OK and you know what to do. 

Again, I wish you luck whatever you decide, for both yourself and your precious son.

Take care. 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Belle2024 said:

 a discussion about how much I love our son and how I worry about him 

Why are you worried about your son? Is your BF a good father? Why would you need to state that you love your son and that you're "worried"?  What exactly worries you? That you're not married? That your son has health or development problems? Why wouldn't his own father know about that? 

[Belle2024]

2 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Yes, I was projecting to a degree.

I think in a close relationship, understanding each other and why each of you react and respond the way you do is so important.

Have you tried to do that with him?  Understand why he reacts the way he does?  Instead of assuming he's an insensitive *****.  

NOT accusing, just asking. 

Have you tried couple's therapy at all?

There are some people who feel discomfort at any show of emotion, and don't know how to respond. This may be why he looks into space when he sees you crying or emotional, I don't know.  But I know men like this, women too!  

I've seen otherwise loving caring people laugh at funerals! Then burst into tears.

Our own emotions and reactions can often be confusing and a challenge to understand sometimes.  It's been true for me and I admit I haven't always responded in the best way I could.  

But through understanding, yourself and each other, each of us can learn, grow and evolve.  

JMO, but if you want to work this out, especially since he treats you well in other ways which I assume is what has kept you there all these years, maybe try a different approach?  Like making an attempt to understand him and why he becomes so dismissive when he sees you so emotional?  For him too, with you, it's a two-way street.

A good qualified couples therapist can help you both through this process.  IF he is willing, he may not be which would be unfortunate.

Just something to consider that's all, again assuming you want to try and work this out. 

If you don't, that's OK and you know what to do. 

Again, I wish you luck whatever you decide, for both yourself and your precious son.

Take care. 

Yes you have valid points for sure and I understand. He actually asked and suggested counselling after I told him I can’t be with him anymore due to the lack of emotional and physical connection. I’m going to think about it. I have a hard time taking him serious because he will sometimes admit what he does is hurtful and acknowledge he needs to change, but for years of just acknowledging something and never actually changing, I am feeling pretty frustrated and hopeless. 

Thanks for the insight and advice. I appreciate it ❤️