Twin Partner Problems

[Dan852]

Hi everyone,

To briefly preface, I am a 23 year old gay male in a relationship with a 21 year old male who has a twin brother who has a girlfriend. My partner will be ‘A’ and his twin will be ‘B’. 

I have been with A for >2 years and love him, and his family, a lot. We are in a short-distance relationship (when we first got together he lived 2 hours away from me, and had since moved and is about 1.5hr away from me), and we see each other very often. We have discussed moving in together but I am bound to where I live because of work and family at present, and I do not want to live in the city he is in. He is South African and moved to New Zealand with his family in late 2018. A and B are both extremely spoiled from their parents, and are inseparable. They have always lived together and always done everything together. B is very dependent on A and is decently less mature than A (who is fairly mature for a 21 year old). They shared a room until they were 16, currently share a car, work together, study the same degree at university, live alone together… it goes on. Their parents moved them to another city for university in early 2022 and heavily subsidised rent for an apartment for them and a flatmate, and they have recently moved into a small house together (again, that their parents heavily subsidise the rent) that is closer to where they both work. 

I have always got along with B, and myself and A have had our fair share of relationship woes that have predominantly come down to a variation in maturity. A major argument we have had at some point in 2023 was that I had an issue with how close A is with B. This stemmed from me realising that they would lay in bed together to watch TV, share underwear, comfortably wander around in underwear in front of each other, share the bathroom when one was in the shower or on the toilet, get quite touchy feely with each other etc… was not okay with me. We argued, it didn’t go far, and nothing has changed.

My partner and I have travelled a fair bit together already. Earlier this year we discussed going to the USA on holiday and roughly put together some mental plans. When it came around to A and B’s parents querying what they wanted for their 21st birthday, they both decided they both wanted flights to the USA, and for me to come along - this was okay with me at that stage. However, since we have arrived and are sharing a small 2 bdrm AirBNB and B has wandered into the bathroom whilst A was getting into the shower and was bare naked (which caused a 5 second tizz between A and B which very quickly subsided), they have continued inappropriate jokes, have focussed on what they want to do, when we have been out exploring they have been walking ahead of me side by side (all of this making me, A’s partner, feel like a third wheel to A and his sibling on a holiday that was our idea), I have not been okay with this even more. A has laughed issues off about this with me when I have raised my feelings about it or has joked about my questions, however I had to discuss this to A in depth as we are/were only 2 days into a 3.5wk holiday when all of this hit me. 

I am not sure what I am asking or what I need, but has anyone had this issue where their partner is ‘too’ close to their (twin) sibling? How did you manage it, did anything change, do you have advice? I am not controlling nor would I ever ask A to ‘stop’ anything or give him an ultimatum but can see this causing ongoing issues and have also realised that I will not be able to live with A until he doesn’t live with B (which I have relayed to A now).

Thank you so much.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, Dan852 said:

When it came around to A and B’s parents querying what they wanted for their 21st birthday, they both decided they both wanted flights to the USA, and for me to come along -

Unfortunately they seem to come as a package deal. Is the trip a gift from the parents?  It seems it's their trip and you're the guest?  Perhaps if you want more one-on-one time, travel as a couple rather than tag along on family trips? 

[Batya33]

I dated a twin seriously for 7 years on and off.  They lived together too -roommates in a 2 bedroom apartment.  Extremely close.  I cared for her a lot and admired her a lot -she was kind of cold to me but tolerated me staying over as much as I did (I lived close by so we split the weeks).  My boyfriend was very protective of her and I accepted that twins-who live together and were also in the same field -are going to be very close.  So I was more lenient as far as boundaries and it was fine.  

For your bf family first -especially his twin -and you're unwilling to relocate for him - so you are also presenting obstacles to the future while your bf knows his brother will always be there for him - so I can understand his prioritizing to an extent. I relocated 800 miles for my husband's job within months after we were married but as soon as we started dating we discussed the long distance situation and my willingness to relocate.  Otherwise we'd never have dated. How soon into the relationship did you realize this geographical issue?

[MissCanuck]

If they have always been like this, and you have raised your concerns and nothing has changed, then you need to realize this is how it is with these two. I agree that they are overly enmeshed with each other but they also seem perfectly content with this. 

It's okay (and understanable) that you are not content with this. However, there is not much more you can do. You won't be able to change the dynamic between them. You might want to re-evaluate the long-term viability of this relationship, though. 

[Dan852]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I dated a twin seriously for 7 years on and off.  They lived together too -roommates in a 2 bedroom apartment.  Extremely close.  I cared for her a lot and admired her a lot -she was kind of cold to me but tolerated me staying over as much as I did (I lived close by so we split the weeks).  My boyfriend was very protective of her and I accepted that twins-who live together and were also in the same field -are going to be very close.  So I was more lenient as far as boundaries and it was fine.  

For your bf family first -especially his twin -and you're unwilling to relocate for him - so you are also presenting obstacles to the future while your bf knows his brother will always be there for him - so I can understand his prioritizing to an extent. I relocated 800 miles for my husband's job within months after we were married but as soon as we started dating we discussed the long distance situation and my willingness to relocate.  Otherwise we'd never have dated. How soon into the relationship did you realize this geographical issue?

The distance was immediately aware and known between both of us. We did briefly talk about me moving but now I have experienced this (again), I couldn’t comfortably do that while he still lives with his twin. Otherwise I would be open to it now, definitely. But also would never give that ultimatum to him.

[smackie9]

They are still so young, still reliant on their parents...not really a prize situation. You can't change it. IMO the both of them are nowhere near ready to take those next steps to have their own lives...probably not for another decade.

The best thing you can do is talk about future plans, timelines to when he is willing to be out on his own, career, paying his own way, etc. If he can't give you any answers then you will have to make a decision of your own.

[Dan852]

5 hours ago, MissCanuck said:

If they have always been like this, and you have raised your concerns and nothing has changed, then you need to realize this is how it is with these two. I agree that they are overly enmeshed with each other but they also seem perfectly content with this. 

It's okay (and understanable) that you are not content with this. However, there is not much more you can do. You won't be able to change the dynamic between them. You might want to re-evaluate the long-term viability of this relationship, though. 

Thank you.

[smackie9]

I say ask his where he sees himself in 5 years.

[Dan852]

Just now, smackie9 said:

They are still so young, still reliant on their parents...not really a prize situation. You can't change it. IMO the both of them are nowhere near ready to take those next steps to have their own lives...probably not for another decade.

The best thing you can do is talk about future plans, timelines to when he is willing to be out on his own, career, paying his own way, etc. If he can't give you any answers then you will have to make a decision of your own.

Hey, thank you for that. We touched on that recently and he thinks he’ll be ready to go as soon as he’s done with university (early 2025), and seems to have some very draft plans about moving again which we’re both okay with and seems suitable to us both. Med-long term though, he wants to move to Canada (which is also a dream of mine), and since A and I have discussed this, B of course wants to as well. But that’s a topic for years down the track!

[smackie9]

Just now, Dan852 said:

Hey, thank you for that. We touched on that recently and he thinks he’ll be ready to go as soon as he’s done with university (early 2025), and seems to have some very draft plans about moving again which we’re both okay with and seems suitable to us both. Med-long term though, he wants to move to Canada (which is also a dream of mine), and since A and I have discussed this, B of course wants to as well. But that’s a topic for years down the track!

Wow which part of Canada?

[Dan852]

17 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately they seem to come as a package deal. Is the trip a gift from the parents?  It seems it's their trip and you're the guest?  Perhaps if you want more one-on-one time, travel as a couple rather than tag along on family trips? 

The trip was a rough plan between myself and A. When it came to their parents asking what they wanted for their birthdays this year, they whimsically decided on flights to the US with the assumption that I would be okay with, and go with them, noting I did not self-invite myself.

I took a while to respond to your comment given the passive aggressive way it comes across. However, the way I am feeling (and the point I tried to put across in the initial post) was that I am feeling that this is now their trip and that I am ‘the’ guest, which is an ugly feeling, and what I was asking for advice on. Whilst it isn’t specifically more one-on-one time I am seeking as much as less of an intensive and sometimes inappropriate relationship my partner has with his twin, I have learned that I will not be travelling with (only) A and B again (but that doesn’t help given we still have 3 weeks to go of this holiday).

[Batya33]

13 hours ago, Dan852 said:

Whilst it isn’t specifically more one-on-one time I am seeking as much as less of an intensive and sometimes inappropriate relationship my partner has with his twin

That's  your opinion.  He doesn't see it that way.  

[Dan852]

3 hours ago, Batya33 said:

That's  your opinion.  He doesn't see it that way.  

… and that may be the case, but my opinion matters and I am asking for help how to get through this. Thanks for the help?

[Wiseman2]

17 hours ago, Dan852 said:

 I am feeling that this is now their trip and that I am ‘the’ guest, which is an ugly feeling, 

Unfortunately they do seem joined at the hip and have some idiosyncrasies. Which unfortunately seems normal to them. Have you spoken to A about any of this?  Sharing the accommodations in a three-way sort of way seems uncomfortable. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Dan852 said:

… and that may be the case, but my opinion matters and I am asking for help how to get through this. Thanks for the help?

It doesn’t matter to that extent. Especially since you simply want him to spend less time with his brother as some sort of sign he’s not attached as he is. That’s his business. This is his family. Immediate family. You’re not married to him and you two don’t have kids together. Your opinion matters if you’re being treated with disrespect. Then you express in those specific situations you won’t tolerate that. But it’s none of your business how close he chooses to be with immediate family. 
My advice is stay out of trying to get him to spend less time with his brother and either accept him as a package deal - with his family - or decide it’s not for you. I’m sorry you’re struggling. 

[Andrina]

Personally, my experience is having a close friend who is a twin, and we've known each other since our early teens. Yeah, their bond seems on overdrive compared to non-twin siblings that I know, and including my own relationship with my siblings. Since I've known them, they've worked at the same places for all 3 of their jobs, although at the last place, they worked at a different branch from one another, and retired within months of each other. They live only 20 minutes apart from one another.

I believe it's wiser to have a what-you-see-is-what-you-get mindset, versus hoping for the best and assuming vague plans will come to fruition.

From the outside looking in, I'd venture to guess they will at minimum live close by to each other and probably see each other daily, or perhaps even insist on sharing a household for a lifetime. I have seen instances of that on a television show about twins. As you can see, one of the twins already spoke of wishing to move to the same country the other twin was speaking of. 

But yeah, it's really not fair to try to change someone in a major way like this, when obviously it's the lifestyle they choose and it gives them happiness. Non-twins cannot understand such a bond.

IMO, if you'll only be happy when someone changes in a major way, he's the wrong partner for you. I wouldn't be happy with a partner like this either, and I would've walked away as soon as I saw the situation.

[catfeeder]

I wonder if you can find some kind of online discussion group on adult twins, where you can pose some questions. There may be a lot of common behavioral stuff from being formed inside a womb with someone else, along with growing up with them, that keeps them as intertwined as they are, and none of us can speak to that.

I can only say that I shared a large bathroom with my non-twin sister growing up, and there is something about living your whole childhood and adolescent years in such a way that feels perfectly natural--although it can cause some squabbles. Even as adults when sharing a place in our travels, we might cross paths in the bathroom with hardly a notice.

If someone were to call that inappropriate, we'd probably just laugh. Really? How can it offend you if you aren't even there? I mean, I can see if it meant one of those guys would just walk in on YOU, but that's what locks are for.

As for the rest of your trip, I'd probably confide in BF at an appropriate time that I'm feeling a bit left out, and I'd appreciate it if he might please consider expanding his habits to include me more.

Head high, and I hope you'll enjoy your travels.

[Dan852]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately they do seem joined at the hip and have some idiosyncrasies. Which unfortunately seems normal to them. Have you spoken to A about any of this?  Sharing the accommodations in a three-way sort of way seems uncomfortable. 

I spoke with A about how I was feeling after initially noticing this to face it whilst fresh rather than allowing it to bubble into a large drama and affect the holiday. He was apologetic and shared some frustrations with B’s dependence on him. A and I have our own room, B has his own room - it just seems like a very small place when feeling the third-wheel. It seems to have gotten better over the last couple of days however since speaking with A.

[Dan852]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

It doesn’t matter to that extent. Especially since you simply want him to spend less time with his brother as some sort of sign he’s not attached as he is. That’s his business. This is his family. Immediate family. You’re not married to him and you two don’t have kids together. Your opinion matters if you’re being treated with disrespect. Then you express in those specific situations you won’t tolerate that. But it’s none of your business how close he chooses to be with immediate family. 
My advice is stay out of trying to get him to spend less time with his brother and either accept him as a package deal - with his family - or decide it’s not for you. I’m sorry you’re struggling. 

I do not understand where you picked up my want for him to be spending less time with B than he currently is. Just perhaps in a less inappropriate appearing way (given they are both adults, and both have partners). Their initial actions were what I would expect my twin nephews (who are children) to do - not 21 year olds. 

I respect that B is his twin brother, and I get along with B and the rest of their family very well. I was feeling disrespected and left out which is why I reached out on this forum.

You appear to have taken everything I have said and turned it into me aggressively wishing to get in between their relationship as twins as opposed to me feeling left out and hurt by their actions together as adult male siblings, thus there is a disconnect. I have said that I will not be demanding changes or approach this in a controlling or possessive way - that is a fact - and I will not be snaking my way into A’s business. I am expressing my concerns as his partner, and my concerns are relevant as his partner. However other replies have said to potentially reevaluate the viability of the relationship long term should I continue feeling this way, which is something I accept. Thank you for your end words.

[Dan852]

4 hours ago, Andrina said:

Personally, my experience is having a close friend who is a twin, and we've known each other since our early teens. Yeah, their bond seems on overdrive compared to non-twin siblings that I know, and including my own relationship with my siblings. Since I've known them, they've worked at the same places for all 3 of their jobs, although at the last place, they worked at a different branch from one another, and retired within months of each other. They live only 20 minutes apart from one another.

I believe it's wiser to have a what-you-see-is-what-you-get mindset, versus hoping for the best and assuming vague plans will come to fruition.

From the outside looking in, I'd venture to guess they will at minimum live close by to each other and probably see each other daily, or perhaps even insist on sharing a household for a lifetime. I have seen instances of that on a television show about twins. As you can see, one of the twins already spoke of wishing to move to the same country the other twin was speaking of. 

But yeah, it's really not fair to try to change someone in a major way like this, when obviously it's the lifestyle they choose and it gives them happiness. Non-twins cannot understand such a bond.

IMO, if you'll only be happy when someone changes in a major way, he's the wrong partner for you. I wouldn't be happy with a partner like this either, and I would've walked away as soon as I saw the situation.

I do understand this and accept it all. I have one sibling and I am not close with her at all. However I have stated and maintain that I will not be controlling or possessive, nor will I expect or ask A to change. That is unfair. 

I have had these feelings in waves on and off for the 26 odd months we have been together however it has only reared to an ugly head on the first day of this holiday. I have had advice from another member of this forum to reevaluate the viability of our relationship long term which is something I accept and will have to do - I do not see myself as 100% happy if this continues (which is unfair on both myself and A, and is just unfortunate, though not his fault it seems).

[Dan852]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

I wonder if you can find some kind of online discussion group on adult twins, where you can pose some questions. There may be a lot of common behavioral stuff from being formed inside a womb with someone else, along with growing up with them, that keeps them as intertwined as they are, and none of us can speak to that.

I can only say that I shared a large bathroom with my non-twin sister growing up, and there is something about living your whole childhood and adolescent years in such a way that feels perfectly natural--although it can cause some squabbles. Even as adults when sharing a place in our travels, we might cross paths in the bathroom with hardly a notice.

If someone were to call that inappropriate, we'd probably just laugh. Really? How can it offend you if you aren't even there? I mean, I can see if it meant one of those guys would just walk in on YOU, but that's what locks are for.

As for the rest of your trip, I'd probably confide in BF at an appropriate time that I'm feeling a bit left out, and I'd appreciate it if he might please consider expanding his habits to include me more.

Head high, and I hope you'll enjoy your travels.

Thank you. Perhaps the bathroom matter bothered me as A was bare nude and is a gay male with his partner (myself) watching B walking in on him without any odd feelings between the two of them - that is foreign to me and awkward, and made me feel uncomfortable and yes, it did feel inappropriate from the partner’s POV. Bear in mind I was there. They are adults, both in relationships, and that is something I would expect from my twin (very young) nephews. 

I did express my concerns with my partner the night prior to posting this and he was apologetic and expressed some frustration with B’s dependence on him along with B’s immaturity and a few other things. He was aware of it being awkward and of the ‘third wheel’ feelings before I even raised them. Seems to be better now.

Thanks for the kind words.

[catfeeder]

1 hour ago, Dan852 said:

Thank you. Perhaps the bathroom matter bothered me as A was bare nude and is a gay male with his partner (myself) watching B walking in on him without any odd feelings between the two of them - that is foreign to me and awkward, and made me feel uncomfortable and yes, it did feel inappropriate from the partner’s POV. Bear in mind I was there. They are adults, both in relationships, and that is something I would expect from my twin (very young) nephews. 

I hear. None of us are obligated to have naked people walk around in front of us. It's fair to speak up and say, "I don't want to see that..."

Quote

I did express my concerns with my partner the night prior to posting this and he was apologetic and expressed some frustration with B’s dependence on him along with B’s immaturity and a few other things. He was aware of it being awkward and of the ‘third wheel’ feelings before I even raised them. Seems to be better now.

Glad to hear this, especially that your partner is receptive to considering your feelings. EnjOy! 

[Batya33]

You wrote above you want him to spend less time with and be less intense about his twin. But not because you want him to be with you more often. That’s what I responded to 

if you are treated with disrespect or rudely speak up. Separately stay in your own lane and mind your own business about how close they are - your opinion has no place. Address any specific situation where you feel disrespected or mistreated. And be careful not to escalate into general comments about his immediate familial relationships. 
Are you considered part of his family in general? Do you have or want marriage plans ?  Does he ?

[Dan852]

5 hours ago, Batya33 said:

You wrote above you want him to spend less time with and be less intense about his twin. But not because you want him to be with you more often. That’s what I responded to 

if you are treated with disrespect or rudely speak up. Separately stay in your own lane and mind your own business about how close they are - your opinion has no place. Address any specific situation where you feel disrespected or mistreated. And be careful not to escalate into general comments about his immediate familial relationships. 
Are you considered part of his family in general? Do you have or want marriage plans ?  Does he ?

Having just read all of my messages etc. above, nowhere did I say I want my partner to spend less time with B. I wish they would have less of what I consider (and truly believe, having seen it in person with my own two eyes) an inappropriate relationship. 

Respectfully I totally disagree with your position on minding my own business, my opinion has no place etc. - what a foul way of looking at a relationship. Who knows what kind of a relationship will ever work out if 1 person’s opinion or feelings has ‘no place’ as you are stipulating. That is gross - to essentially say that 1 person should sit down, shut up and deal with something they are not comfortable with in general no matter what it is. Thanks for your input on this topic but you have idealised me saying things that I haven’t and your outlook on relationships and opinions, feelings etc. is just totally not in line with anything I have ever heard or been taught in my life, so I don’t see this conversation continuing.

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Dan852 said:

Having just read all of my messages etc. above, nowhere did I say I want my partner to spend less time with B. I wish they would have less of what I consider (and truly believe, having seen it in person with my own two eyes) an inappropriate relationship. 

Respectfully I totally disagree with your position on minding my own business, my opinion has no place etc. - what a foul way of looking at a relationship. Who knows what kind of a relationship will ever work out if 1 person’s opinion or feelings has ‘no place’ as you are stipulating. That is gross - to essentially say that 1 person should sit down, shut up and deal with something they are not comfortable with in general no matter what it is. Thanks for your input on this topic but you have idealised me saying things that I haven’t and your outlook on relationships and opinions, feelings etc. is just totally not in line with anything I have ever heard or been taught in my life, so I don’t see this conversation continuing.

No I did not write that in the least-. I was very specific as to what I meant - please don't twist my words just because you want what you want -to impose your own standards and values on his relationship with his brother.  

Good luck with all and I hope you find the validation you're looking for.