How should one handle the other's sexuality outside of the relationship?

[boltnrun]

2 hours ago, hannarivers said:

One of my older relatives who is a man. 

So your sample size of ONE man is an indicator of how every single man on the entire planet should behave? 

[Jaunty]

6 hours ago, hannarivers said:

Sometimes I think he does an unacceptable, madebythedevil action. If I know that it is common, I feel less threatened. 

In a way, it is. He lied to me about porn for years and I had to leave him, only then did he realize how much it hurt. 

I'm sorry, this is going to be harsh, but he should have stayed away.  He is in a no-win situation.  You cannot be satisfied because it's impossible for you to read his mind.  He is constantly under undue scrutiny.  That is no way for him to live.

And it's no way for you to live, but you'll have to get help and work through this ON YOUR OWN.  

[boltnrun]

Especially when you're getting to the point where you don't even want him watching movies in case there's an actress in the movie who might inspire him to masturbate. 

[Jaunty]

2 hours ago, hannarivers said:

Im sorry, but it is my personal opinion that I dont fully respect people who sell their bodies. I know life gets hard, but deciding that your body is an object is a serious problem. It is my opinion, just like someone said they would not date a person who vapes - I do vape, and she is entitled to think that it is not cool. 

Why are you sitting in judgement on people who enjoy flaunting their bodies?  What does "life is hard" have to do with it?  Why have you determined that she thinks her body is an object?

You started off this thread talking about how you've made all kinds of sexy videos for / with your boyfriend.  Have you decided your body is an object, then?  

Perhaps she's an exhibitionist. Likes attention.  Maybe she has a partner who is getting off on her showing off?  That's common.  Who knows.  Who cares?   You don't have to date her, your boyfriend is not pursuing dating her, no question about that.  Just forget about her.   

Your boyfriend does, however,  like to look at her and similar people.   That's where you have your problem.  Don't deflect your profound desire for control and insecurity on some stranger who is dancing in front of men who enjoy watching her.  

[hannarivers]

To those who say we are not compatible - you say that I am the one who has unrealistic image about sexuality, so then I am incompatible with everyone. Once I met a guy who were not interested in these things, but he was not interested in sex either. I also met one who told me he never had and will never watch porn, but he expects his woman to act traditional and jump for marriage after a year of dating, which is also not suitable for me. I dont know if it was here or somewhere else, but someone told me "If you want your man to do those freaky things with you that you like and not just make love to you casually, you might just accept that he will have eyes for stuff like porn or masturbation. You are far from being a traditional saintlike housewife, so dont expect that you would feel good with a man who wants a woman like that". And this might just be true. 

[hannarivers]

12 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you're living together for a while now and he won't marry you no matter how often you bring it up you want a ring, you don't want "flings", etc.  He suggested you "fix your issues" first.  Whatever that means.

To be honest your relationship is the problem, not masturbating, porn, etc. You're trying to twist yourself around a guy who wants convenience.

Unfortunately you are channelling all this into some sort of "sexuality is  sinful" type of spin. When the real issue is his complete lack of commitment to you and your insecurities about that.

Your BF is finding every reason under the sun to make you jump through hoops.

Maybe you do have some hangups, moralistic rigidity, anxiety and control issues, but being with someone who's jerked you around for years could certainly exacerbate any issues you have.

You're only 23. Moving out would be the best place for you to start. This way you won't be policing his sexuality and you won't waste more years on someone who's just coasting along.

 So maybe you need a new BF rather than a new therapist?

 

And about this, please just stop speaking like it is a fact that people dont get engaged after 5 or 10 years. I know way too many people who had to grow up before this commitment, and also many who proposed after 1 or 2 years and broke up years later. You have to realize that we are moving forward and not backwards. Two years ago we couldnt even communicate, now we sit down every 2 weeks for 1 hour to talk about changes and stuff. We created conflict resolution plans. We go on more quality time dates than before. We talk 3x more than a year ago. This year he chose to give up porn for me and you can say that it will change, but I might also change. 

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

To those who say we are not compatible - you say that I am the one who has unrealistic image about sexuality, so then I am incompatible with everyone. Once I met a guy who were not interested in these things, but he was not interested in sex either. I also met one who told me he never had and will never watch porn, but he expects his woman to act traditional and jump for marriage after a year of dating, which is also not suitable for me. I dont know if it was here or somewhere else, but someone told me "If you want your man to do those freaky things with you that you like and not just make love to you casually, you might just accept that he will have eyes for stuff like porn or masturbation. You are far from being a traditional saintlike housewife, so dont expect that you would feel good with a man who wants a woman like that". And this might just be true. 

No that's simply not true -you just haven't found the right person yet. Anecdotes are irrelevant.  My husband and I have always enjoyed sex and sex with each other.  Neither one of us has ever regularly watched porn -I mean who knows he might of as a teen -I don't think so - never asked, irrelevant.  But from all I can tell he's not into porn to that extent, neither am I and obviously people can be very sexual/into sex and not into porn.  Defies common sense to presume otherwise.

[hannarivers]

10 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

No that's simply not true -you just haven't found the right person yet. Anecdotes are irrelevant.  My husband and I have always enjoyed sex and sex with each other.  Neither one of us has ever regularly watched porn -I mean who knows he might of as a teen -I don't think so - never asked, irrelevant.  But from all I can tell he's not into porn to that extent, neither am I and obviously people can be very sexual/into sex and not into porn.  Defies common sense to presume otherwise.

What do you mean by not that extent?? I mentioned that he was totally lost with women and he never had sex at the time he should have been enjoying a real person and experimenting with his and a girl's body. This is the reason he got hung up on porn. I wont ever judge someone for being socially uncomfortable. Ovbiously if he had anyone who ever touched him and showed him what intimacy was, he would not enjoyed porn this much. It is hard to get rid of a habit. Every 15-20 year old masturbates regularly, he did it with porn, became a habit. He decided to change it after he took me seriously and I appreciate that. My habit was that I could only get off by tools. It took me a year to make it without it. I am not mad at him. And I love my life with him so so much. It makes me so happy that I feel his love for me, the way he wants me, and how he wants to make a life together. I love all of his little habits. 

[redswim30]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

To those who say we are not compatible - you say that I am the one who has unrealistic image about sexuality, so then I am incompatible with everyone. 

Right now, you ARENT going to be compatible with most men. In my experience, most men masturbate at least SOMETIMES.  Even those that don't (LOL) are going to find other women attractive, both in the real world and in the fantasy world of the internet, tv, movies, etc. 

The only men you would be currently compatible with are men who aren't sexual at all.  Or men who will just lie to you/hide it from you. 

You have severe jealousy and control issues.  No reasonable person is going to put up with that for too long.  Bashing other people to lift yourself up is a terrible means of gaining self worth, and it only perpetuates your cycle of needing to compare yourself to others.  If you do that to yourself, you will never be happy.  Porn aside, there's ALWAYS going to be other women in the world.  Women that are more "beautiful", "in shape", "sexier", "smarter", "more fun" etc than you.  When you have and truly feel value within yourself, you don't feel the need to compare.  You KNOW what you have to offer and are proud of that.  People who compare out of insecurity tend to be those with low self esteem.  No one can fix your self esteem issues but you.  The way to go about it is not to shame or bash other women.  PS.  Being the MOST 'beautiful" still doesn't prevent people from either masturbating or cheating. 

Your BF has a right to a private life that you don't "oversee" or control.  Why are you putting yourself into a parental role with him? That's not healthy for either of you.  

How would you feel if you BF "caught you" talking to a "handsome male coworker" about business things or talking to an old school friend you bumped into on the street?  Would you want him to trust you that these men are just friends/coworkers?  Or would you enjoy him giving you the 3rd degree, " WHY do you have to communicate with other men?  Aren't I enough for you?  When you talk to them, you should pretend that they are me!  I am HOTTER than that old school mate of yours, aren't I?  He's old and out of shape?  Aren't I cuter?  Aren't I?"  If someone did that to ME, I'd tell them to GROW UP.  NO PARTNER (no matter how "good" they are) should be someone's WHOLE WORLD.  That's toxic AND unrealistic. 

IMO, your BF is a saint for putting up with this behavior from you.  Most people would be LONG out the door.   

Here's your two choices. 

1. Get a better counselor and break up with your BF because you are not yet mature enough for an adult relationship. 

2. Get a better counselor and learn to make different choices about how you choose to respond to things. 

Please note the common denominator in both choices.  

We live in a co-ed world.  You are never going to be able to police what a partner does 24/7.  Not ever.  The issue is within you.  Until you work on yourself, this isn't going to get better, with this man or anyone. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

What do you mean by not that extent?? I mentioned that he was totally lost with women and he never had sex at the time he should have been enjoying a real person and experimenting with his and a girl's body. This is the reason he got hung up on porn. I wont ever judge someone for being socially uncomfortable. Ovbiously if he had anyone who ever touched him and showed him what intimacy was, he would not enjoyed porn this much. It is hard to get rid of a habit. Every 15-20 year old masturbates regularly, he did it with porn, became a habit. He decided to change it after he took me seriously and I appreciate that. My habit was that I could only get off by tools. It took me a year to make it without it. I am not mad at him. And I love my life with him so so much. It makes me so happy that I feel his love for me, the way he wants me, and how he wants to make a life together. I love all of his little habits. 

He got into porn for one reason. He chose to. The end. Unless someone sexually abused him or made him watch porn or drugged him he chose porn in reaction to his feelings and desires. Not because he didn’t have sex till later. Not because he lacked sexual experiences. Because he chose to. I’d strongly suggest you not tell yourself oh poor little boy he had to use porn because he was such a deprived teenager. Please. It’s demeaning to him as a person who is responsible for his own choices

if you’ve now convinced yourself that the benefits of being with this boyfriend outweighs the downsides then accept your discomfort and anxiety and do not ever burden him with it. That’s a habit he won’t like. No nagging no monitoring no asking for reassurance. Accept he has in the past focused a lot on porn accept that he changed for you and accept that if he did so “for you “ he remains a person who would choose porn if he wasn’t with you. So also accept that if you two argue you’ll worry  he’ll choose porn. If you have a baby and can’t have sex while you recover and you’re exhausted you’ll worry he’ll go back to porn because as goi said you think he’s a person who “of course “ needed porn when he was “deprived” if sex. Right ?  

Make sure you are totally comfy wit that sort of dynamic and life. Sounds like you are as you describe your lives as practically blissful yes??

[Batya33]

I agree most people masturbste at least occasionally. I agree most people have seen porn by choice at least once.  I agree couples might choose to watch porn together occasionally. I don’t think most reasonably healthy people masturbate to porn regularly or watch porn regularly.  I don’t believe most people are anxious about porn or self pleasure to the extent you are and I don’t believe most people would burden their partners with this level of anxiety about masturbation and porn. 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, hannarivers said:

. This year he chose to give up porn for me. 

However you claimed you make your own video porn and he supposedly masturbates to that?  

Unfortunately this doesn't seem like a win. It seems like you're settling. Franky the worst thing you can do is record yourself having sex or anything compromising because it can be sold, forwarded, used for extortion/revenge or go viral in a nanosecond. Not exactly sure how this solves your problems? 

[boltnrun]

51 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I don’t think most reasonably healthy people masturbate to porn regularly or watch porn regularly

I think this statement is overly broad and I disagree. In every relationship I've been in including my 14 year marriage we viewed porn both as a couple and individually. It wasn't every single day but my husband and I, for example, would go to the "adult " section of the video store to rent a movie to enjoy together on the weekend. And I consider myself to be "reasonably healthy." I presume you state this as an opinion rather than as a fact. 

When it becomes a problem IMO is when an individual PREFERS porn over real life interactions. Or when they use a category of porn that is illegal or involves someone being harmed. 

Regardless, if a person prefers not to be involved in a relationship with someone who enjoys porn they have every right to leave the relationship or decline to date someone who uses porn in any capacity. Trying to police someone's personal activity is futile, as is insisting their partner not watch movies or any kind of media because they "might" see an attractive woman who could possibly inspire them to masturbate. 

[Batya33]

10 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I think this statement is overly broad and I disagree. In every relationship I've been in including my 14 year marriage we viewed porn both as a couple and individually. It wasn't every single day but my husband and I, for example, would go to the "adult " section of the video store to rent a movie to enjoy together on the weekend. And I consider myself to be "reasonably healthy." I presume you state this as an opinion rather than as a fact. 

When it becomes a problem IMO is when an individual PREFERS porn over real life interactions. Or when they use a category of porn that is illegal or involves someone being harmed. 

Regardless, if a person prefers not to be involved in a relationship with someone who enjoys porn they have every right to leave the relationship or decline to date someone who uses porn in any capacity. Trying to police someone's personal activity is futile, as is insisting their partner not watch movies or any kind of media because they "might" see an attractive woman who could possibly inspire them to masturbate. 

I mean regularly. Like every day. Closer to addiction range. And not as a couple. We just have different definitions of regularly. I think also when it gets to addiction range I would think the person starts going towards more areas that might venture into illegal. So yes I meant where it’s regularly just like I work every day for hours and workout every day. 

[hannarivers]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

However you claimed you make your own video porn and he supposedly masturbates to that?  

Unfortunately this doesn't seem like a win. It seems like you're settling. 

I dont think there is anyone who is perfect. So technically you always settle. Dont tell me that if you want a wife who cooks everyday and you meet the love of your life and she cant cook, but she makes you happy, then you dump her. My mother has a husband that makes her really happy, but he is sometimes too clingy, while she loves to be alone sometimes. She just accepted it because she wants a life with him. So, if I found someone who wants to be with me, make me happy, build a home with me, who chooses to change his bad behaviour to not hurt me, cherises me, makes me laugh, feel loved and wanted, I should drop him because I feel anxious about masturbation instead of changing myself so I can be with him? He hates shopping so much that he gets angry by the crowd. I take too long while shopping, especially for shoes, should he drop me because it annoys him to the point that he cant even hide the hateful expression towards waiting on his face? 

Also, my problem is not masturbating in general, its getting inspiration from outside stuff. So our own video is fine. Why couldnt he be aroused by ourselves, when we made that video with love, consent and fun. I am in it, and we didnt do anything that is unrealistic, so his view of real sex wont change by it. 

43 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

we viewed porn both as a couple and individually.

And you never felt bad that another woman's body turned him on to the point that he climaxed? It is not that I dont trust him as a person, I just dont understand how someone can watch a person who works out hours a day to look good for porn, who act in unrealistic ways, who put up makeup for each sex scene and then go and have sex with their real partner and still enjoy it visually too. I mean, sex is better with love, but is it visually pleasing too if you see those made up people? 

26 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

mean regularly. Like every day.

I think I mentioned that he selfpleasures like every 10 days. Only when we take more days separately. In my opinion, even once a week would not be too much. I also said that the video he saw made his mood and he chose our vid. Even if he did it to the music video, it still happened after like two weeks, I think it was even more time after he last did it. 

[boltnrun]

11 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

And you never felt bad that another woman's body turned him on to the point that he climaxed?

No, just like he never "felt bad" when I did. He would even ask me which porn actors I found attractive so we could get those movies. And I would ask him. This had zero to do with our love for one another. Ultimately we chose one another to build a life with. No image on a screen was going to change that.

So no, I never felt threatened or insecure or "bad". 

[Jaunty]

3 hours ago, hannarivers said:

To those who say we are not compatible - you say that I am the one who has unrealistic image about sexuality, so then I am incompatible with everyone. 

In a sense, this is the case.  Not actually incompatible, but not in a place with your own emotional health to be in a sustainable healthy relationship with any man.

I don't look at porn.  Yes, I have done, but I'm not drawn to it or interested.  That said:  If I were dating a woman and she let me know that looking at porn or even masturbating with an image - or even a thought - that was not about her was FORBIDDEN, I would run like the wind.

Nobody with their wits about them is going to willingly sign up for a relationship that hinges on a form of thought policing.

[Jaunty]

21 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

 Dont tell me that if you want a wife who cooks everyday and you meet the love of your life and she cant cook, but she makes you happy, then you dump her. My mother has a husband that makes her really happy, but he is sometimes too clingy, while she loves to be alone sometimes. She just accepted it because she wants a life with him.

Sure.  Neither of these examples of normal compromise are related in any way to your consuming desire to have control over the imagery in your boyfriend's mind, what he casts his eyes upon, or what he thinks about when or how often he masturbates.

Look.  You are conflating something that is a real problem and a threat to peoples' relationships; i.e. actual porn addiction, with porn itself.  You're also including the rest of NORMAL sexuality under the umbrella of control and sort of paranoia that you've created.  

If a person  is in a relationship with a someone who's sexuality is defined by a porn addiction, or who is not physically attractive or sexually compatible with them, then they should break up.  NOT try to control that person's PRIVATE sexual world.  

If a person (you, in this case) finds themselves trying to control their partner's private sexual and other thoughts, they should also break up, because they are not currently capable of functioning in a healthy relationship.  They need to focus on getting emotionally healthy.  

 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

I dont think there is anyone who is perfect. So technically you always settle.

I didn't want anyone who was perfect as I am not.  I don't know anyone who is.  I wanted someone perfect for me and I refused to settle. I found someone who is perfect for me. I didn't settle. Where did you ever get the notion that perfection is the standard? To make excuses for settling??

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, hannarivers said:

Also, my problem is not masturbating in general, its getting inspiration from outside stuff. So our own video is fine. Why couldnt he be aroused by ourselves, when we made that video with love, consent and fun. I am in it, and we didnt do anything that is unrealistic, so his view of real sex wont change by it. 

Because that's not what rocks his world.  He is not you.  It's like if my husband said why not buy instant coffee because it's much cheaper and coffee is coffee. He's not a coffee drinker.  To me not all coffee is the same. Or if he said eat frozen yogurt instead of ice cream and you'll get the same pleasure as I do.  (Hypothetical).  Frozen yogurt doesn't do it for me.  Ice cream does. Same for him - he doesn't get as turned on by your video as he does by watching others.  Different strokes for different folks and it's unfair of  you to impose your views and opinions on him in this way.

[redswim30]

1 hour ago, Jaunty said:

Sure.  Neither of these examples of normal compromise are related in any way to your consuming desire to have control over the imagery in your boyfriend's mind, what he casts his eyes upon, or what he thinks about when or how often he masturbates.

Look.  You are conflating something that is a real problem and a threat to peoples' relationships; i.e. actual porn addiction, with porn itself.  You're also including the rest of NORMAL sexuality under the umbrella of control and sort of paranoia that you've created.  

If a person  is in a relationship with a someone who's sexuality is defined by a porn addiction, or who is not physically attractive or sexually compatible with them, then they should break up.  NOT try to control that person's PRIVATE sexual world.  

If a person (you, in this case) finds themselves trying to control their partner's private sexual and other thoughts, they should also break up, because they are not currently capable of functioning in a healthy relationship.  They need to focus on getting emotionally healthy.  

 

Please re-read this amazing post, especially what I've bolded for as long as it takes to sink in. 

This isn't really about your BF and porn.  That's just smoke and mirrors to your real issues.   Your real issues are that you want to try and control what your BF thinks about, fantasizes about or finds attractive or sexy.

What so many people here are telling you OP, is that you will NEVER be able to accomplish that.  Even were he to never watch another second of porn- other people in life are GOING to turn him on.  It's unrealistic to think you are the ONLY woman he is ever going to have romantic or sexual fantasies about or YES, masturbate to.  He's a 25 year old male, this is the peak of sexual desires for most men.   IMO, he's not in any way addicted to porn, he's acting like a typical 25 year old male.  If you cannot handle this, then it is best if you break up.   This isn't a simple argument and it ISN'T a compromise.  This is you wanting the ability to control his private thoughts, which is not only unhealthy, it's a no win situation for either of you. 

You really need to work on this internal issue you have.  Until you do, every relationship you have will just be a ticking time bomb of when the other person gets sick of you trying to control their private thoughts.

 

[hannarivers]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

Because that's not what rocks his world.  He is not you.  It's like if my husband said why not buy instant coffee because it's much cheaper and coffee is coffee. He's not a coffee drinker.  To me not all coffee is the same. Or if he said eat frozen yogurt instead of ice cream and you'll get the same pleasure as I do.  (Hypothetical).  Frozen yogurt doesn't do it for me.  Ice cream does. Same for him - he doesn't get as turned on by your video as he does by watching others.  Different strokes for different folks and it's unfair of  you to impose your views and opinions on him in this way.

Oh no I didnt say that. I was justifying the reason behind our own video. He loves those. 

 

3 hours ago, Jaunty said:

because they are not currently capable of functioning in a healthy relationship. 

And do you think that if I did not care about this, just let him watch hot women for fun, it could be a healthy relationship? Can a relationship be healthy and lifelong if someone enjoys watching these? 

[Batya33]

19 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

Oh no I didnt say that. I was justifying the reason behind our own video. He loves those. 

 

And do you think that if I did not care about this, just let him watch hot women for fun, it could be a healthy relationship? Can a relationship be healthy and lifelong if someone enjoys watching these? 

Why not ? For some it would be a turn on. For you it’s not. Many people watch hot looking people for fun. My mom always had a crush on Gregory Peck. She was married for 62 years - really good marriage. My dad I remember liked Bo Derek in the movie 10 back in the day. Watching hot people having sex - can be really fun on one’s own or with a partner. For you it’s not. For you it’s triggering.
For you it’s so anxiety provoking you resort to filming yourself with a boyfriend and those videos easily could get into the wrong hands. To you it makes sense that that should take care of it. To him it doesn’t because he likes variety in his viewing. He loves the homemade videos and he loves other videos. Like if you made awesome chocolate chip cookies would you be mad if he loved those and sometimes preferred the ones his coworker baked because hers had a different texture ? Or would he have to enjoy only your cookies ?  Kinda controlling yes ?

 

[hannarivers]

5 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

For you it’s not

I think I have to explain my feelings and thoughts. Ill make an example. Lets say you were thought that you should not accept gay people because they are sinful. Your friend turns out to be gay and you feel like they are a bad person because gays are sooo bad. And yet, they are not. It is not for me because I was taught that someone who can watch hot people for fun and even get turned on CANT love their partner and cant truly desire them, also staying loyal. 

[hannarivers]

4 minutes ago, hannarivers said:

I think I have to explain my feelings and thoughts. Ill make an example. Lets say you were thought that you should not accept gay people because they are sinful. Your friend turns out to be gay and you feel like they are a bad person because gays are sooo bad. And yet, they are not. It is not for me because I was taught that someone who can watch hot people for fun and even get turned on CANT love their partner and cant truly desire them, also staying loyal. 

I would like to add to this by saying that my ex had an eye for everyone. He turned out to be a cheater in his next relationships. I was the only one he never cheated on, but still my mind reminds me how he liked these things too and he stepped on the wrong path