I want to make my relationship with my brother better

[survivor2021]

I(25M) have a brother (31M).

When we were kids, I feel like we didn't have the best relationship. He basically was a bully to me.

When we hang out with the other kids, or even alone, he rarely misses the opportunity to scold me on first occasion on 'pathetic' matters. To give you an examples :

• Once I was talking with a kid about how my dad's car and his own dad's car are junk compared to cars like Ferrari and Lamborghini we play on NFS games.. and he suddenly started to threat to tell on me and snitch to my parents because I made fun of their daily effort and all kids were laughing at me.
• Other example is when I got a bit older, he got to peep on my Facebook screen where I was 'swearing' in the private messages with a friend, using strong words like s*** and f***, he came at my room late at night and told that he has seen the messages and will snitch on me and got me crying, threatening to tell my parents again. Being a kid, I thought it was actually very bad thing and got so scared.. he tormented me that night emotionally and only left after I cried tons and apologized.
• Last one, my parents convinced him to take me out with some of his friends.. first out went well.. second one.. well.. third one, his friends were buying sandwiches and one of them offered me a bite. I respectfully said no at first, saying I'm not hungry, but the dude insisted I at least try it, so I did. One day later, he scolds me and tells me to never do that again because they think I'm greedy or something.. when I told him it's just a bite out of a sandwich that he offered, he raged and told me that I don't want to listen to advice..

I could go on forever. Worst part for me is that we never talk about it later and of course he never apologizes. I rarely remember him doing a brotherly thing for me, like helping me in an argument with my parents or choose to cover up for me instead of threatening of snitching. He just comes after a couple of days and pretends nothing happens when I'm disturbed and angry ( I was a kid so I couldn't help it ). Nothing physical really, but we had serious arguments and we are not that close. Growing up, his behavior didn't change. He is still controlling and self righteous and his ego and pride only got bigger. We both live abroad now in different countries and we take vacations to visit our parents and we spend a month, or more together, and 4 out of 5 times, we end up in an argument.. and now I'm not a kid anymore and I want to stand up and protect myself.

I don't want me being passive about it to become a habit and having him go farther. Parents at first told me to 'ignore' him since I'm the better person.. but easier said than done.. I can't really control my frustration sometimes and it gets worse when I shut in my feelings and pretend like nothing happens when he does something disrespectful.

With all that being sad, I love him for the 10 percent good moments. I love him for the fact that he is my biological brother and I wish we can do more stuff together, go out, plan vacations together... but with his controlling behavior, I can't. We recently had our last argument and now my parents tell me that they don't want us to drift apart even more..

I really want to make this right.. but I know I can't change his behavior just so suddenly. He won't listen to advice, especially coming from me, his little brother, and I can see that this is how he thinks when he always plays the ' I am the older brother, you should respect me ' card when we get into fights. Funny thing is that the only reason we are not fighting THAT often right now is because we are simply distant. Everyone is suffering from his behavior.. his friends, my parents, his coworkers, and also me.

I just wish I could put my parents mind at ease and have our relationship get better.. I wish I could forget all the bullying and all the bad things he did to me and pretend we are best buds.. and when he does more messed up stuff, I just ignore him and let him yell, clown me, treat me like a kid when now I'm a man, force his opinion on me, order me what to do.. if that will make things better but I can't.

Any advice ? Anything ? Please help and thank you

[Wiseman2]

Do you live in the same household?

[survivor2021]

@Wiseman2 No. We live in different countries.

But in vacations, we reunite as family to check on our parents and spend some time together with them. I just moved abroad ( 1 year ago ) so this is new for me, when he has been abroad for 7 years or so. 

So we only live in the same household on vacations basically 

[Wiseman2]

31 minutes ago, survivor2021 said:

@Wiseman2. I just moved abroad ( 1 year ago ) so this is new for me, when he has been abroad for 7 years or so. 

So we only live in the same household on vacations basically 

That's great.  You only have to deal with him occasionally. The rest of the time you can enjoy your new life away from your childhood memories. 

[Batya33]

My sister is 5 years older than me and we are very different and very close/best friends since I was around 13-14 (I am 57) -but I've never thought this was a given.  I am not close for example to all of her 4 adult children (ages 26-35) and neither of us was particularly close ever with our late father. 

Blood doesn't mean you're going to get along and I realize there are past hurts (for sure my sister was mean to me lots of times when we were kids and there was other sibling stress) but I'd stop assuming that you and your brother should have any sort of close relationship. If you can be polite on the rare occasions when you are together I'd take that as a win. IMO.

I'd explain to your parents that you and your brother are very different people and it's best for your comfort and well being if you keep a polite distance from him.

[Andrina]

Well, that sibling strife when you two were younger is common stuff many go through. My brothers and I were jerks to each other all the time when we were young.

But he should have matured as an adult, and according to you he hasn't, since he is toxic to everyone around him.

Parents shouldn't be appeased 100 percent of the time just because they're your parents. They're not taking your feelings into consideration that it's not in your best interest to be around him.

If I'm working an entire year to afford a yearly vacation, I'm certainly not going to spend it with someone who's difficult to be around. If it were me, I'd take my vacation to visit my parents at a different time my sibling is visiting. 

You can choose your friends, but not your family. My friend has a sign on her door: Welcome friends. Relatives by appointment only.

Good luck!

[Cherylyn]

 

@survivor2021. I'm sorry you're experiencing extreme angst due to your brother.  ☹️

I can somewhat relate with the only difference being gender.  Instead of a brother,  I have other members of my family who are very mentally abusive for decades. 

Even though the word "narcissist" is used readily,  unfortunately,  narcissism is prevalent more often than we'd like to admit. ☹️  To be clear,  narcissism isn't about preening oneself in the mirror.  I wish it were that easy.  A narcissist does not care how you feel.  Your feelings do not matter to them.  They're an extremely selfish lot and only concerned about themselves as they always carry an air of superiority.  They're extremely arrogant.  They come first and foremost and if there's any competition or opposition,  they'll do anything in their power to let you know you will always remain inferior to them however way they navigate it, i.e.,  bullying,  manipulating,  snitching,  threats,  controlling the narrative,  controlling the dynamic,  showing their temporary good face at their whim and if it benefits them and they'll always be self serving and self centered.  Those are a narcissist's rules so be educated in this arena. 

Once you understand a narcissist's psychology,  nothing surprises nor shocks you anymore.  It 'only' took me almost a lifetime to figure out what a narcissist is and narcissism is more rampant than most people realize.  Why?  Because it works that's why.  Why?  Because they get away with it.  There are no consequences so why not do what is successful?  To a narcissist,  if it ain't broke,  don't fix it.  Their MO (method of operation) is alive and well. 

You are well meaning and young at age 25.  I was once you and so hopeful,  naive with all due respect,  wishful and always desired what possibly could be.  Well,  I hate to break it to you but with a narcissist,  if you believe in anything positive about them,  you're in for a long,  very painful journey with them so be prepared to suffer long term. 

You don't want to be passive?  It's the only way to be with a narcissist.  The less you do,  the better.  I am passive aggressive because it works when I have to be in order to save myself from preventable and avoidable harm.  There's no way around it.  Learn to disengage.  Keep a safe distance from him.  The choices are either enforce strict boundaries for yourself or choose estrangement.  Do whatever it takes to protect yourself from harm.  This is how you will feel safe.  Any other way poses great risk to you. 

Disarm a narcissist by cutting off their power supply.  Who is their power supply?  YOU.  Learn to discard your brother. 

Your brother and parents are gaslighting you.  They deflect,  change the subject and force you to perceive yourself as the mentally unstable one.  It's the oldest psychological warfare and trick there is.  I'm very well aware of gaslighting and can sniff a narcissist and gaslighter from a mile away.  😡

Your parents told you to ignore your brother because you're the better person?  Oh puhleeze. 🙄  Here we go with more gaslighting yet again.  I've heard it all.  Your parents enable bad behavior.  Anyone who engages with a bully,  narcissist and / or  gaslighter gives the perpetrator endless excuses to continue what they're adept at.  Your parents' statement grants permission for the perpetrator to continue being a repeat offender forever.  It's a free pass or free "get out of jail" card to continue harming you.

Your love for your brother is slipping away.  If you only like 10% of him,  the bad outweighs the good.  I've heard it all:  "Nobody's perfect,"  "Find the good in everyone,"  "Take the high road,"  "Forgive,"  "Oh he's just that way;  accept him warts and all,"  "Be a good sport and don't cause drama,"  "You're still stewing?  Get over it,"  "It was in the past.  Let it go."  "Move on,"  blah,  blah,  blah,  etc.  Those are all typical gaslighting comments,  btw,  It's as old as time.  Again,  those are excuses to enable a perpetrator's continued bad behavior.

I've had enough.  It's been a very disgusting ride.  I've since pumped the brakes on several relationships which demonstrated zero empathy.  My mantra?  You do you.  I'm out.  Either I enforce healthy,  strict,  unwavering,  steadfast boundaries or I've opted for estrangement.  Both decisions saved me and this is how I am able to survive.  I've since exhausted all other avenues to no avail.  What I do works.  No more 'Miss or Mr. Nice.'  Those days are over.  Play by your rules from now on.

See your parents separately whenever your brother is not there.  It is what I would do.  None of this:  "We're one big happy family ________  ________. 😒 Save fantasy dream land for the movies and storybooks.  Be realistic.

Your brother never apologizes because in his mind,  he has nothing to be sorry for.  A narcissist has zero feelings for you.  A narcissist never has any accountability BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE.  Get this ingrained into your head.  You do not matter to them.  You will be treated inhumanely because this is how they control you.  You're under their thumb as long as you allow it.  They will always hurt you as long as you are available to them to get hurt.  This is why I'm no longer available to narcissists.  I don't care what they do or say as long as I'm nowhere to be seen nor found.  I'm no longer with them and went no contact permanently.  I'm never physically in the presence of a narcissist.  It's my choice and I love it!  I've since cut off all electronic contact with a narcissist and I feel so  incredibly safe.  We no longer see each other in person and it's the best thing I had ever done.  My only regret was I didn't disengage sooner!  Better late than never.

I'd block and delete him from your social media. 

Your parents don't want siblings to drift apart more?  You're not kids anymore.  They don't get to dictate how you feel and what your choices are.  Do it quietly.  You don't need their approval.  There is a way to have a cordial,  safe relationship with your parents minus your brother's presence.  I do it all the time and it works.  You need to find your safe place in your life otherwise you'll torment yourself until you go mad if you hadn't already. 

Whenever I'm with my mother at her house,  I do not mention my sister's name whatsoever.  I pretend she's dead.  It works.  This is how i feel safe much to my relief. 

I visit my mother's house by myself or accompanied with my husband.  I don't have to be lumped together with my intolerable,  narcissist sister.  It is unnecessary.  Enforced boundaries reign supreme.

Forgiveness is a big word.  You can forgive your brother despite choosing not to share the same breathing space with him.  In this context,  forgive means to move on with your life without the perpetrator,  don't wish ill will and heal.  The other definition of 'forgive' is to stop feeling angry and resentful.  In my case,  often times,  NOT forgiving is a constant wake up call for me to remember the perpetrator's long, very unacceptable and intolerable track record and endless,  repetitive abuse.  Not forgiving makes me mentally tougher,  mentally stronger and permanently guarantees my resolve. 

Never expect an apology from a narcissist.  They'll never apologize in a million years.  They do not feel remorse whatsoever.  Remember,  they are NOT empathetic.  They're from a different planet.  They will never feel for you because it's just the way they are. 

You can't make this right.  You can't control what other people do.  All you can do is control yourself and control the dynamic in your favor.  Your two choices are:  Boundaries or estrangement.  Or, like me,  boundaries with estrangement.  The choice is yours.  Stop wishful thinking otherwise you'll set yourself up for further disappointment and pain.  Let everyone suffer from his behavior.  They have the choice just like you to avoid your brother like the plague. 

I never wanted to aim for boundaries and estrangement.  However,  after many years of exasperation,  turmoil and distress,  I was at my wit's end.  I've tried everything,  reasoning to no avail,  being nice,  kind,  generous,  forgave countless times all for no changes ever to be had and all efforts in futility.  Narcissists enjoy their power over you.  Nothing delights them more.  Enough already.  I was tired of being stupid and played for a fool.  I had no recourse but to resort to Draconian measures in order to protect myself from further pain and cruelty.  Initially,  it was an adjustment to enforce boundaries and estrangement but this is how you attain power.  Boundaries and estrangement tells the offender that you are done.  This must stop.  Boundaries and / or estrangement protects you,  makes you feel safe,  secure and RELIEVED.  It's a deliberate barrier you've built for yourself and these are the new forever rules.  A narcissist is no longer allowed to do as they will with you.  Those days are no more.  Hold your ground. 

He is the older brother and you should respect him?  I call this statement _______ ________.   Respect is earned.  His disrespect and cruelty are betrayals of your trust in him.  Never lose sight of this! 

Don't put your parents' mind at ease.  They're grown adults and can handle themselves.  They're responsible for however way they wish to think.  It is not your domain.  Be concerned about your mental and physical well being.  Learn to protect yourself.  Don't get hurt.  Get smart.   Be strong,   hang tough and be kind to yourself because no one will do it for you except YOU.

I gave up talking.  I just do.  My actions speak louder than words.  I do what I want,  when I want.  Boundaries and estrangement have worked wonders for me.  I have a peaceful relationship with my mother and brother.  We are respectful,  polite and peaceful albeit not chummy.  My sister is off limits and not allowed to be in my midst.  Truth be told,  I've never felt safer and more protected.  I hope you will feel the same. 

You are a man now.  Control your own life in your favor.

Boundaries and / or estrangement = CHECKMATE (in the game of chess analogy).  Game over. 

 

 

[SooSad33]

17 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

Growing up, his behavior didn't change. He is still controlling and self righteous and his ego and pride only got bigger. We both live abroad now in different countries and we take vacations to visit our parents and we spend a month, or more together, and 4 out of 5 times, we end up in an argument.. and now I'm not a kid anymore and I want to stand up and protect myself.

This, is what YOU need to see and accept.

You cannot get along with people like this.  He is Toxic to you!  Simple.

 

17 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

With all that being sad, I love him for the 10 percent good moments. I love him for the fact that he is my biological brother and I wish we can do more stuff together, go out, plan vacations together... but with his controlling behavior, I can't. We recently had our last argument and now my parents tell me that they don't want us to drift apart even more..

Well, both you and your parents need to realize this isn't possible.  I wonder why they're so blind to this? 😕  ( denial).

 

17 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

and when he does more messed up stuff, I just ignore him and let him yell, clown me, treat me like a kid when now I'm a man, force his opinion on me, order me what to do.. if that will make things better but I can't.

Sadly, as I said, this guy is Toxic to you 😕 .  Meaning he's no good and will always be a negative & trigger you.

It sounds like this is just how he is.. with you, sorry.

Then is best to deal with him as minimally as possible and continue on with your life.  Expect nothing with him...  I have an ex who's got it similar w/ his brother. They're always at odds and there seems to be some jealousy and he's told the kids how much his brother is a narcissist, yet he's very much the same.

Yeah, just carry on and avoid the toxic.  We don't get along with everyone.. right?  😉 .. Live your life with those around you are much more positive than this.

 

[Cherylyn]

3 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

Well, both you and your parents need to realize this isn't possible.  I wonder why they're so blind to this? 😕  ( denial).

Because some people don't feel for you,  they lack empathy and they don't get it.  This is why they perpetually enable bad behavior by making gaslight-y excuses such as suggestions for you to "just ignore your brother,  be the better person,"  "your parents telling you they don't want to drift you and your brother apart even more,"  etc.  Never be brainwashed into thinking there is something fundamentally wrong with you and you should alter your attitude in order for a sick relationship to work.  Should you continue practicing their mantras,  this means the abuse will never end. 

As for 10% good moments,  there aren't any.  So what if he's your biological brother?  It doesn't mean he's a better person for it.  Why wish to do more stuff together,  go out,  plan vacations together with the wrong person in your life?  It's like cutting a deal with the devil himself. 👿 It's your daydreaming wishes that make you weak minded.  Don't sell yourself cheap.

I was once you and what happened?  I allowed the vicious cycle of abuse to continue because I granted permission for the perpetrator (narcissist) and their enablers to do it.  Nowadays,  they can socialize without me while I take good care of myself! 

I visit my mother's house on my terms,  when I want and within my controlled parameters.  My sister is not there and I can relax my mind and feel safe.  Then I go home.  My visits are brief.  It works.  I'm happy and relieved! 

You need to protect your dignity.  You are very expensive.  Your price is high meaning either your brother has to behave like a decent human being or he does not have the privilege of associating with you.  Make these rules very clear and remain steadfast,  unwavering and absolute.  Never sell yourself cheap and give him (or other narcissists) yourself in order to acquiesce and keep the peace.  It's like forcing your hand to burn on a hot stove.  Isn't it very painful?  Then,  don't do it.  Protect yourself from getting burned.

Even though most narcissists never face consequences for their actions,  what they do,  what they say or write,  you can have your own consequences with them.  You don't have to subject yourself to trauma bonding and repetitive abuse.  It's your choice.  Learn to disengage,  go no contact,  remove them from your social media and discard them from your life if there is no other way to find your safe place in your life.

Surround yourself with very moral people if you want to be happy,  secure,  safe and protected.  Everyone else does not qualify to have you grace their life. 

To a narcissist and their enablers (or flying monkeys),  their message to you is this:  "Put up or shut up" which is a deal breaker.

[survivor2021]

Quote

Well, both you and your parents need to realize this isn't possible.  I wonder why they're so blind to this? 😕  ( denial).

@SooSad33 The thing is, in my last conversation with them, they indeed gave up and backed me up on this, as my brother did also some messed up stuff to them also.

The thing is, they are desperate for good things to happen because.. same thing happened with them. This thing appears to be genetical and inherited.. my father family especially is not getting along too well.. my uncles and aunts are ghosting one another and barely interact.. and lately some started lawsuits because of inheritance stuff and building processes.

My parents tell me that they wish to not see us becoming like them.. I told them :

I'm doing my part, and that he has to do his own but I don't see it happening.. 

Sometimes I wonder maybe I am at fault too and being too dramatic and maybe stuff like that is normal and I should get over each argument we have.. but the fact that he is toxic with other people too makes me confirm that I'm not at fault :

• Had serious arguments with my mother and ended up shouting at her and throwing dinner once because she didn't serve him first... 
• Had problems with his team in work, with his team, later his manager, later the company's owner and things escalated and he almost got fired if it wasn't for 'nepotism' and because he is the nephew of the company's owner.. who is my uncle who gets along with my father. 

[Batya33]

12 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

The thing is, they are desperate for good things to happen because.. same thing happened with them. This thing appears to be genetical and inherited.. my father family especially is not getting along too well.. my uncles and aunts are ghosting one another and barely interact.. and lately some started lawsuits because of inheritance stuff and building processes.

They can feel desperate and not react by pressuring you.  Many families go through this -nothing to do with genetic or inherited - correlation without causation.  The good thing that can happen is they stop pressuring and trying to control your interactions.  It reminds me of parents who make their young children hug relatives they do not care for or barely know because of some fake family Norman Rockwell notion.

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

@SooSad33 I'm doing my part, and that he has to do his own but I don't see it happening.

Just be yourself and neutral. Try not to add fuel to the fire this much with long-standing resentment.

To be honest you're a little too old for this level of sibling rivalry and it's making you miserable for no reason. You're not going to change him or the family dynamics.

[Cherylyn]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Just be yourself and neutral. Try not to add fuel to the fire this much with long-standing resentment.

To be honest you're a little too old for this level of sibling rivalry and it's making you miserable for no reason. You're not going to change him or the family dynamics.

I beg to differ.  A person is never too young nor too old to have sibling rivalry.  It happens the world over.  In an optimal world,  everyone especially family members would be compatible and how idyllic and wonderful if we were all so lucky? 

You can't change people.  However,  @survivor2021,  you can change by changing the dynamic with enforced strict boundaries or the last resort would be estrangement.  Both choices are extremely empowering.  I've done it and this is after playing 'Miss Nice,' for many years,  keeping the peace for everyone's sake,  being in martyr mode,  "turning the other cheek" all the time,  grinning and bearing it.  I was a "good sport,"  longer than most.  Well,  one day,  I said,  "Enough already.  I'm not going to tolerate nor accept the perpetrator's _________ anymore!  I'm done."  As for the enablers,  gaslighters and brainwashers,  let them continue their enabling and trauma bonding as long as I'm not part of the equation.  I don't put up with anyone's _________ anymore.  Those days are over.  A person should behave honorably and like a decent human being or I'm out.  No deal.  😒  

[Cherylyn]

16 hours ago, survivor2021 said:

@SooSad33 The thing is, in my last conversation with them, they indeed gave up and backed me up on this, as my brother did also some messed up stuff to them also.

The thing is, they are desperate for good things to happen because.. same thing happened with them. This thing appears to be genetical and inherited.. my father family especially is not getting along too well.. my uncles and aunts are ghosting one another and barely interact.. and lately some started lawsuits because of inheritance stuff and building processes.

My parents tell me that they wish to not see us becoming like them.. I told them :

I'm doing my part, and that he has to do his own but I don't see it happening.. 

Sometimes I wonder maybe I am at fault too and being too dramatic and maybe stuff like that is normal and I should get over each argument we have.. but the fact that he is toxic with other people too makes me confirm that I'm not at fault :

• Had serious arguments with my mother and ended up shouting at her and throwing dinner once because she didn't serve him first... 
• Had problems with his team in work, with his team, later his manager, later the company's owner and things escalated and he almost got fired if it wasn't for 'nepotism' and because he is the nephew of the company's owner.. who is my uncle who gets along with my father. 

It's good that you have your parents' support but remain wary and jaded because they're straddling both sides of the fence.  😒

Your parents' desperation is their issue and problems;  not yours.  It's something they need to figure out and how to handle their family history.  Their estrangement and lawsuits are their business and their problems. 

This is a new day,  new generation and you need to remain focused on you and your brother by empowering yourself. 

Bad behavior is NOT genetic nor inherited.  It usually stems from environmental,  influences,  negative experiences and insecurity.  A narcissist acts the way they do because it works.  It works because they don't have consequences.  They can get away with it forever.  They're puppet masters of manipulation and they've taken it to a whole new other level.  They have it down to a science.  They're extremely domineering and will let you know your place.  They don't care what price they have to pay in order to always do what they want whenever they want in order to meet their own ends.  Should you dare to confront them,  they will shut you down every time.  The only way to win is to dissolve and exit the relationship.  Make yourself unavailable in all modes ~ electronically,  online,  cell phone,  PC,  social media,  in person,  all of it.  Don't be his punching bag anymore.  Empower yourself. 

Your parents wish for you and your siblings not to become one of them.  That's wishful thinking on their part and easy for them to say considering they're not the ones who are personally facing your brother's obnoxiously cruel abuse.  They're not placing themselves in your shoes.  They don't know what they're saying.  What they're saying is "word salad."  It sounds high and mighty but it's meaningless,  unrealistic and impractical.  Their wish is their wish as parents but it's impractical and unrealistic for you. 

Never doubt yourself by second guessing yourself;  thinking perhaps you're at fault.  If you do,  your brother and parents' gaslighting strategy and tactic is succeeding.  Never fall for those types of tricky statements which cause you to question your perception of the facts.  This is exactly the purpose of gaslighting.  Gaslighting gives you pause to question if you're the problem and not they.  It's a sneaky way to twist the issue.  I've received gaslighting all my life and all too aware of this sneaky trick.  No one can fool me anymore.

Don't complain,  don't explain nor justify.  Save your breath.  Just do.  Do meaning enforce strict boundaries for yourself or estrangement from your brother.  Whatever works.  If you don't,  you'll continue to be pummeled courtesy of your brother and you are available as an easy target to abuse repetitively. 

Visit your parents,  be cordial and don't discuss what ails your mind regarding your brother otherwise you'll end up talking in endless circles again.  You're just wasting everyone's time and your energy.  Make sure you and your brother do not cross paths.  Make these your new enforced boundaries in order to feel safe,  secure and relieved!  Change and control the narrative and dynamic. 

I'm a huge proponent of passive behavior because being repetitively nice had failed miserably.  It's time to roll up your sleeves and get tough.  Either get tough or be defeated.  The choice is yours.