Waiting for better

[Truth05]

Hi,

 

I come here with a situation I am right now. I have bad experience with men in the past and I am selective. However, because of social pressure etc I got into relationships in the past who ended up bad and reinforced what I previously believed: I deserve better, but end up not getting better. I did not feel any of the guys were the right match for me. Back in my early twenties, it was easier to get more dates. Now, in my late twenties and after a really bad break up, it feels like almost impossible. I just do not know how to cope with this dissapointment. Imagine! I thought the guys who were asking me out in my early twenties were not at the same level intellectually, morally etc, now the chances are even less. I had so many bad interactions with men after my last break up. They are nasty, entitled etc. It seems like almost impossible to find someone to my level. I am not looking for a super attractive guy, or rich. I am expected basic relationship skills such as consideration, loyalty, intelectual and similar values, open communication. This seems impossible. I have tried going out with the church youth group, nothing happened. I ended up getting more triggered by the men in the group because of their mysognistic attitudes. Same problem encountered other women in the church, so it's not only me. It's really frustrating and upsetting what's happening.

Now, I have recently started dating a guy which before I would not consider as a potential boyfriend. But, I do not feel comfortable, I feel like it's out of desperation and I am pushing myself and tell myself there is no better for me and I do not think I want to meet Mr Right at 35. About this guy, although he has some good qualities, I find him to be too simple and the charisma and the intelectual side is missing. Different level of educations, I have a more expanded experience of travelling, he is not into it, I feel like I am forcing myself to date because in the last 2 years I kind of avoided dating because of how so many men come across: pushy, ignorant, unavailable, mysognistic etc. 

Do you think I should just forget about dating and consider remaining celibate for my whole life? I do not want to engage in wishful thinking anymore (it may come /it may not come in the future). This brought me only disappointment. I would rather make my mind now and stick to a decision, cause it seems I get nowhere in dating someone I seem to be on the same level and brings me only bad experiences, one after another. 

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this is happening. Although this man is ok, he seems to not really be a great match for you. You can see how it goes, but don't give up on other opportunities.

[Batya33]

Dating is hard enough without you approaching it with such a negative mindset especially about men. I can’t relate to your mindset or opinions but my sense is you’re getting in your own way. Settling is not the answer. I am turning 57 soon. I started dating my future husband when I turned 39. He was almost 39.  I didn’t settle at all. We e been married almost 15 years and have a wonderful teenage son. 

I worked very hard to become the right person to find the right person. But I’ve always had close male platonic friends and overall with a few exceptions been treated with respect and love and caring in my serious relationships.  Most of the few exceptions involved early on in the dating process. 
I hope you find a way to stop getting in your own way 

and let this man find someone who is really into him - which is not you. 

[shouldhavelearned]

Don't settle

 

He's out there 

[catfeeder]

Everyone would love to hit the lottery in love quickly and easily, but there are no guarantees. So setting a timeline makes no sense, and neither does dating people who you can tell are not right for you. That’s a waste of time and depletes your energy.

Take rests when you need them. Also set up quick meets over coffee to check one another out, and don’t go out on full dates with anyone who doesn’t strike you as a possible good match. That saves you time, you can just set up a few quick meets on your way home from work. If you get stood up, take your coffee with you and nothing is lost.

Agree that neither can corner the other to set up a real date on the spot, but either can invite the other after the quick meet. If the answer is yes, the other responds, but if not, then no response is necessary. This takes squirmy rejections off the table.

Don’t try to date everyone you meet, use quick meets to screen people OUT. This will spare you from miserable dates even while it allows you to keep meeting people until you strike simpatico with someone you actually like.

Head high, and adopt a goal of learning resilience as a crucial life skill.

[LootieTootie]

2 hours ago, Truth05 said:

 I have tried going out with the church youth group, nothing happened. 

 

How many times did you go out? sounds like one time.

Also if you aren't seeing anyone you are attracted to at this church, I would look at some other local churches. Have you thought about changing church? Or maybe attending different churches as long as its the same religion/same denomination?

You also come across like you're burned out from dating and if thats the case, I would take a break. When I turned 29, I was tired of dating and tired of going back on and off on this 3 year relationship. So I just stopped dating and focused on my career. I did end up meeting my husband when I was 32 and it happened so fast and it was the easiest and most loving/supportive relationship I ever had. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, shouldhavelearned said:

Don't settle

 

He's out there 

Also accept that there are absolutely no guarantees of finding the right match for the long term. And that’s ok - life is unfair and this is also true when it comes to career and other goals - you can do your best and work your hardest and you might not attain what you set out to attain. But for me anyway it was still worth it and I was proactive for the many years it happened to take me. I know many for whom it came easy and just as many who are still single. And unhappily so. Most got in their own way in one way or another.  But we all know people for whom that just didn’t work. They often have successes and accomplishments in other areas of life but not that one. Stil if you want it badly enough and for the right reasons I think it’s worth it and I’m saying that after a really long and tiring and somewhat stressful day being a married mom. 
The “he’s out there” thing is a lovely romantic cliche. There often is more than one he who is the right match. But you only need one. And you might get found or you might find each other or as my mom used to say you might chase him until he catches you lol. 

[Truth05]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Everyone would love to hit the lottery in love quickly and easily, but there are no guarantees. So setting a timeline makes no sense, and neither does dating people who you can tell are not right for you. That’s a waste of time and depletes your energy.

Take rests when you need them. Also set up quick meets over coffee to check one another out, and don’t go out on full dates with anyone who doesn’t strike you as a possible good match. That saves you time, you can just set up a few quick meets on your way home from work. If you get stood up, take your coffee with you and nothing is lost.

Agree that neither can corner the other to set up a real date on the spot, but either can invite the other after the quick meet. If the answer is yes, the other responds, but if not, then no response is necessary. This takes squirmy rejections off the table.

Don’t try to date everyone you meet, use quick meets to screen people OUT. This will spare you from miserable dates even while it allows you to keep meeting people until you strike simpatico with someone you actually like.

Head high, and adopt a goal of learning resilience as a crucial life skill.

I have been waiting for love and a good match thought my life.

Indeed. I feel miserable just by dating people who I know from start are not good for me. Somehow I still go for the date, because they seem to give me more attention, asking out and then are more willing to compromise. However, I have learned from my last relationship. It's not worthy trying to fix someone and be at my standard. It's exhausting and ends up in resentment. I know in a relationship, there must be made some compromises, but I do not think those compromises should come from changing someone. It's been almost 2 years since my last relationship and I screened out many people and did not get to meet up as I did not see potential. Lately, I became more insecure and felt I should give a chance to some people I did not consider before. It still no works. Then, I will need to wait and focus more on myself, indeed, and taking rejection as a learning experience. 

 

Thanks for the answer. 

[Kwothe28]

What makes you think you "deserve beter"? I am genuinly curious. Because all I saw is you bashing on your dates(who you yourself choosed btw). But never saying why you deserve better. So what do you have to offer out there? Are you exceptionally beautiful so all men should chase you? Are you college educated so you ask for your partner the same? Are you all those qualities you look in the partner? Because it seems to me that you found a "nice guy". But you think so low of him that you trully sound "entilted". I am not saying that you should settle because you shouldnt, but just that your outlook on men you date is, well, bad.

For example, I had a lot of "bad dates" and even relationships. But even if they did me dirty I never thought of them as "being bellow me". If I thought they are, I would never date them. They were all generally educated, independant and nice ladies. No matter what happened between us. But you seem to think about your dates as "dirt". Somebody not worthy enough of cleaning your shoes. Again, this is not a good outlook for dating.

Also, by the use of "triggered" and "ist" and "isms" maybe you shouldnt be looking your partner inside of church. Dont think you would find a similar value partner there. 

[Truth05]

42 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

What makes you think you "deserve beter"? I am genuinly curious. Because all I saw is you bashing on your dates(who you yourself choosed btw). But never saying why you deserve better. So what do you have to offer out there? Are you exceptionally beautiful so all men should chase you? Are you college educated so you ask for your partner the same? Are you all those qualities you look in the partner? Because it seems to me that you found a "nice guy". But you think so low of him that you trully sound "entilted". I am not saying that you should settle because you shouldnt, but just that your outlook on men you date is, well, bad.

For example, I had a lot of "bad dates" and even relationships. But even if they did me dirty I never thought of them as "being bellow me". If I thought they are, I would never date them. They were all generally educated, independant and nice ladies. No matter what happened between us. But you seem to think about your dates as "dirt". Somebody not worthy enough of cleaning your shoes. Again, this is not a good outlook for dating.

Also, by the use of "triggered" and "ist" and "isms" maybe you shouldnt be looking your partner inside of church. Dont think you would find a similar value partner there. 

I understand what you are saying. I want someone similar to me, but also someone I feel attracted to and see as being masculine and strong. I am honest and have strong Christian values and morals, and expect the same. I did not sleep around or anything like this, and expect the same at least. I have a degree and a Masters and I have read dozens of books, and expect a medium of level of knowledge about certain topics. I have visited a few countries during my healing process in the last years, and also saved money during that tough period, which shows resilience. I want just someone similar. As I said, I do not want someone overly attractive or rich, as I won't feel comfortable, neither I want someone I have limited discussions and feel I cannot connect on different topics and a spiritual level. 

[Batya33]

42 minutes ago, Truth05 said:

I understand what you are saying. I want someone similar to me, but also someone I feel attracted to and see as being masculine and strong. I am honest and have strong Christian values and morals, and expect the same. I did not sleep around or anything like this, and expect the same at least. I have a degree and a Masters and I have read dozens of books, and expect a medium of level of knowledge about certain topics. I have visited a few countries during my healing process in the last years, and also saved money during that tough period, which shows resilience. I want just someone similar. As I said, I do not want someone overly attractive or rich, as I won't feel comfortable, neither I want someone I have limited discussions and feel I cannot connect on different topics and a spiritual level. 

Have you met people in church who are like minded? Also are  you fit, healthy and do you do the most with your looks to look attractive? Are you approachable? As far as your values how do you show those values in actions? Do you do volunteer work? Help people in need in some way? When you say connect on a spiritual level what specifically does that mean to you? Deep talks? Taking a yoga class? Reading books on spirituality and then discussing? Doing activities that are for spiritual minded people?Do you find being outdoors in a park spiritual? What if your partner does -does he have to "connect" in a spiritual way in the same way you do?  You seem to be a bit on the rigid side which is why I am asking. 

You say you have these values and are spiritual and yet you are comfortable making all these broad, sweeping negative comments about men -how does that jibe with your values you say you have?

Also when you say that your personal interactions with men were with those who were nasty and entitled -your words - how is that consistent with being spiritual and moral - I mean aren't you supposed to take a broader view and know that those were those individual people (and also that it takes two -perhaps what you saw as nastiness was a reaction to perhaps something you said or did that was offensive -you shouldn't be mistreated just saying that you are the common denominator in those interactions

[Coily]

I really feel for you, but I can't help but reading through here and think you are doing a bit of self sabotage. You value some fleeting things; like travel. A lot of men who make under 6 figures don't get to travel as much, usually as they are trying to make a living over experiences. So I would suggest you be a little more circumspect on that topic.

You value intelligence, but are you mistaking a degree for intelligence? More often than not men will forego the masters degree and plough right into a career. The topics you want to discuss are generally what?

All in all, I am seeing a bit of a disconnect between what you are saying you are expecting and what you tell others you are seeking, and painting the men who don't fit as minor villains. Typically when we set that pattern it's something off within ourselves, and we project those problems on others.

As for the current guy, one could argue that he could do better with someone else. A woman who doesn't look at him like a boat anchor.

Another thought, I think you need to look at a perspective partner as someone with potential. There is this foolish idea that everyone is static in terms of relationships, it's simply not true. Are you the same as you were 5, 10, 15 years ago? I doubt it. You shouldn't date someone to change them; but to help each other grow. In this guy's case, maybe it's to get him excited to travel, or get him engaged on your deep conversations. Don't look for perfection, and also don't settle for good enough; find comfortable and happy.

Hopefully the guy who you can appreciate is just around the next twist in life.

If the sexes were flipped:

What makes you feel entitled to a GF BF/relationship? Lots of people are struggling with loneliness, divorce etc.  ~W

You are parroting and perpetrating incel rhetoric and using their inane tactics to excuse yourself from having to take responsibility for your own situation and taking action to change it.  ~J

 

[Wiseman2]

42 minutes ago, Truth05 said:

. I have a degree and a Masters and I have read dozens of books, 

Have you considered joining some groups and clubs, volunteering, getting involved in sports and fitness, taking some classes and courses and broadening your social horizons to meet more like-minded people?

Additionally you can get a good profile and pics on paid high quality elite or Christian dating apps if you would like more serious daters, better matching and screening tools and a more select group of people.

You're going to have to invest a bit more rather than be upset at the low quality you seem to be reeling in and upset about. 

[catfeeder]

7 hours ago, Truth05 said:

I have been waiting for love and a good match thought my life.

Indeed. I feel miserable just by dating people who I know from start are not good for me. Somehow I still go for the date, because they seem to give me more attention, asking out and then are more willing to compromise. However, I have learned from my last relationship. It's not worthy trying to fix someone and be at my standard. It's exhausting and ends up in resentment. I know in a relationship, there must be made some compromises, but I do not think those compromises should come from changing someone. It's been almost 2 years since my last relationship and I screened out many people and did not get to meet up as I did not see potential. Lately, I became more insecure and felt I should give a chance to some people I did not consider before. It still no works. Then, I will need to wait and focus more on myself, indeed, and taking rejection as a learning experience. 

 

Thanks for the answer. 

Yes, it’s a screening process, and don’t waste valuable time and energy on trying to make a bad fit into a good one. If you’re not feeling it, trust your gut and move forward. Whether that means on to screen another or into a rest, that’s a case by case choice. But you’ve learned that you never get any wasted time back to re- live over again, so stop spending time with people who drag you down.

Also, rejection is nothing more than stumbling across someone who doesn’t see you through the right lens. That speaks of their limits rather than of any reflection on you.

Your goal is to find simpatico with someone who owns the right lens to appreciate your unique value. This will NOT be most people, and same is true for all of us.

If finding love were easy, what would be so special about it?

[Kwothe28]

7 hours ago, Truth05 said:

I understand what you are saying. I want someone similar to me, but also someone I feel attracted to and see as being masculine and strong. I am honest and have strong Christian values and morals, and expect the same. I did not sleep around or anything like this, and expect the same at least. I have a degree and a Masters and I have read dozens of books, and expect a medium of level of knowledge about certain topics. I have visited a few countries during my healing process in the last years, and also saved money during that tough period, which shows resilience. I want just someone similar. As I said, I do not want someone overly attractive or rich, as I won't feel comfortable, neither I want someone I have limited discussions and feel I cannot connect on different topics and a spiritual level. 

I see. But your description also sounds way too bloated. Like: I want a masculine 6 foot Chad, not overly attractive or too rich so other women wouldnt go after him that much(that is what I read when you say "wont feel comfortable if he was those") and he has to have traditional Christian values, have college degree and be book smart about certain topics and to love to travel so we could travel to places like Tahiti every year. See how "dreamy" it sounds?

I am not saying that you wont get that, maybe you will, who knows. Just that you need to know that chances for that are very slim. And that if you couldnt attract those kind of men so far, there are very little chances you actually will. If you are not meeting those kind of men you are either

a) not hanging out on places those kind of men hang out

b) not attracting those kind of men and your standards are way too high

Option A could require some work, for example change of scenery(or even place where you live for some more lucrative one) where you would be in a proximity of those men. For example, art galeries or book promotions where you could meet some intelectual types if that is your type and where you could have more sophisticated discussions. But my money is on option B. I am sorry but it just sounds like near impossible standard to have. 

Which is fine, its your standard after all. You think that you deserve better so anything bellow that, you consider not your level. Who am I or anybody else to tell you otherwise? But again, you need to know that there is a realistic chance you never get what you want. Some of your standards are more grounded. Its not unrealistic to expect from your partner not to cheat or even to have same values or to have topics to talk about. But when you add more stuff (masculine, college degree, intelectual, maybe even stuff like, I dunno, height or job or salary etc) percentages of finding somebody that fits in that mold, are very, very small. For example only 1/3 of men in America has college degree. Not all of them are actually intelectual, certanly not everyone are masculine(I would even say they "cancel" each other in a way that you want "buffed nerd" type). Add stuff like age(you probably wont have somebody too old or maybe even too young), that they need to be single(you dont want married), maybe even stuff like height or salary(you said "not too rich" so maybe there is a cap for even that). And your dating pool is very, very small. Just be aware of that. 

[Truth05]

5 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Yes, it’s a screening process, and don’t waste valuable time and energy on trying to make a bad fit into a good one. If you’re not feeling it, trust your gut and move forward. Whether that means on to screen another or into a rest, that’s a case by case choice. But you’ve learned that you never get any wasted time back to re- live over again, so stop spending time with people who drag you down.

Also, rejection is nothing more than stumbling across someone who doesn’t see you through the right lens. That speaks of their limits rather than of any reflection on you.

Your goal is to find simpatico with someone who owns the right lens to appreciate your unique value. This will NOT be most people, and same is true for all of us.

If finding love were easy, what would be so special about it?

Thank you. That's my point. I do not want something which will come easy. I want to come gradually and seek certain similarities during the process of getting to know each other. 

I ended up dating the guy I mentioned. I feel already so much better and happier. Definitely, there was no chemistry, neither a lot of similarities. Most importantly, I like guys to be emotionally intelligent, before the academic intelligence. I do not care a lot about degree, more about having deep discussions etc. I have someone in my family without degree, who is much smarter then me and have a lot of respect towards this person. I think I can balance things in the dating process. As I am looking to both prons and cons and decide based on these. With this guy, there were about 10 cons and 3 prons, which is not great. It needs to be at least 50% of what I want. If in the begi9its not 50% of what I am looking in a person, then with time, getting to know someonr better, that 50% will be reduced even more. So I do not want to end up in a relationship where I am feeling suffocated or feel I am pushing myself or the other person just to be into it. 

[Wiseman2]

There's nothing wrong with either of you, you're just incompatible. You may have to revise where and how you are meeting men, rather than lower your standards and build up resentment.

[Batya33]

I have an advanced degree and am academically inclined and also emotionally intelligent. I dated for 24 years on and off. And lll share this - you can be really book smart and good at thinking logically and making pros cons lists. And it’s good to have a not too long list of musts for a marital partner (oh and where I did almost all of my dating - a major city-  it was hard to meet a man who was not at least college educated - a bit harder to meet men who saw it as value based and an accomplishment not just a “piece of paper”)

Anyway - if you feel you must make a pro con list about a man it’s your cue to stop dating him. It means it’s not right.  Took me some time to come to that conclusion. And if you’re actually doing this percentage thing - buh bye. 
 

[Tinydance]

To be honest, your post kind of reminded me of my best friend. She actually is beautiful and very slim and a dancer, so quite fit. She has always had so many guys interested in her. Sometimes we would be walking down the street and I'd see guys' heads literally turn and they would stare at her! She is university educated and has a good job and owns an apartment. 

Despite that, she has mostly been single all her life and she has been rejecting nearly all guys she dated. She's dated hundreds of guys. Her standard is already very high. Basically every guy she dated was attractive, university educated and had a good job. Now that she owns an apartment, she's raised her standard even higher and says she prefers the guy owned property. She was impressed by a previous guy she dated because he owned two houses. 

I always got the sense that my best friend is very picky and it's almost like she's always looking for there to be something wrong or she harshly dismisses people.

Like, for example I remember she did a video call during COVID lockdowns with a guy from online dating. She said he was attractive but the conversation was a bit awkward. For that reason she told him she wasn't interested. It's like, um, you were talking to a total stranger on video, of course it was a bit awkward! She didn't even want to give him a chance.

I'm not saying that your standards need to be really low, but they can't be too high either. I'm in my late 30's and I hate to say it, but the older you get, the worse dating prospects get.

To me it seems that you have a bit of a rigid idea in your mind who the man has to be. You have a list of boxes to tick and he has to tick all the boxes. I'm not saying you should be with guys you don't like but I also think it won't be possible for most men to tick all the boxes. 

My personal opinion is you should focus more on the chemistry and connection you have with guys. I'm not saying you need to completely let go of your standards.  But if you want something more long-term, the fact that someone has a university degree or travelled won't necessarily make the relationship last. What makes a relationship last is your connection, friendship and "spark" with that person. In my opinion that's the most important thing.

 

[Jaunty]

On 8/14/2023 at 4:42 PM, Truth05 said:

 

Do you think I should just forget about dating and consider remaining celibate for my whole life? I do not want to engage in wishful thinking anymore (it may come /it may not come in the future). This brought me only disappointment. 

There's a tremendous amount of territory between taking a break from dating and "remaining celibate for (your) whole life."

Also, adopting an attitude of "good things happen for those who wait" is not equal to "wishful thinking."  

[Cherylyn]

No,  I don't think you should just forget about dating and remain celibate your whole life.  Never give up. 

I was fortunate to have met and married my husband during my early 20s and we have sons in our quiet,  very comfortable life in the suburbs.  

However,  if I were you,  I wouldn't close the door on dating or searching for "Mr. Right."  

I went on several dates and they were duds.  I could've settled for subpar men but I didn't.  I wanted my dream guy and I got him.  He's a good guy of solid character,  we have sound economics,  we're able to engage in intellectual conversations over the dinner table,  our values,  principles,  morals and lifestyles are the same.   He is very helpful,  kind,  considerate,  empathetic and selfless.  I could not have done any better.  My best friend said I have a "Cinderella" story and my mother often tells me how fortunate I am.  I concur and count my blessings daily.

In society,  I've encountered all sorts of men through employment,  society in general,  college,  my previous neighborhoods and I've just about seen and heard it all.  Most impressions were either unfavorable or not good enough for me. 

As for you,  it pays to shop around.  Afford to be very picky and choosy. 

Also, I agree with others.  You need to put yourself out there such as getting involved in various organizations,  clubs,  hobby type groups,  excursion type groups,  volunteer in your community,  charities,  try a different larger church with subgroups,  sports,  etc.  You need to scour the limitless possibilities. 

You have a lot of potential and "Mr. Right" is searching for you, too.  Be patient because it will pay off later.  🙂

[LootieTootie]

Agree with everyone's post. 

You haven't really told us if you are actively and proactively involved or engaged with any groups outside that church group.

Tell us what you've done so far to put yourself out there?

[Truth05]

6 hours ago, LootieTootie said:

Agree with everyone's post. 

You haven't really told us if you are actively and proactively involved or engaged with any groups outside that church group.

Tell us what you've done so far to put yourself out there?

I have not done this lately as I was put off by the men in the church. From out group discussions, they complain a lot about women, have mysognistic attitudes and double standards. I know my younger sister do all these things and she is still single and very upset with the dating possibilties. So this is something happening not only to me. My expectations are realistic though. 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, Truth05 said:

I have not done this lately as I was put off by the men in the church. From out group discussions, they complain a lot about women, have mysognistic attitudes and double standards. I know my younger sister do all these things and she is still single and very upset with the dating possibilties. So this is something happening not only to me. My expectations are realistic though. 

LOL I'd not go there with the -I know other people having a hard time finding a good match - there are many many and the reasons are infinite - geography/attitude/looks (meaning very overweight people, shorter men, people who focus inordinately on wanting arm candy, people who have hidden but serious mental health issues that reveal during dating, etc etc).  - I had a really hard time in the 24 years on and off I dated. It's not just you.  Life is unfair, there are no guarantees. 

But you can increase your chances as I wrote above- lose the negative attitude, be out there and more proactive and my best guess is -there are churches out there that are much more egalitarian and diverse so that those who are misogynistic wouldn't be welcome there. 

Also my sense is those in the church who go out there in the community to volunteer likely are more compassionate and less likely to have those misogynistic attitudes while serving the community.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Truth05 said:

I have not done this lately as I was put off by the men in the church. 

Your criteria are fine. However you seem to be looking in the wrong places. It's especially difficult if you are searching for someone with the same faith but claim the men who attend your church are jerks. 

Please consider upscale PAID relationship focused dating apps.

There are apps for Christian singles and people looking for serious relationships. Paid apps may give you a more select group of people and may have better screening and matching tools.