First "date" confusion

[Batya33]

17 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I am not against her exercising her options as this was just a lunch date and they live in different countries so whole perspective of dating(if we dont count long distance) is far fetched. However I just dont agree that he doesnt like her because he didnt wanted to see her today. After he saw her for 5 hours yesterday. And when he has other obligations today. Just because he wouldnt leave everything just to see her again doesnt mean he doesnt like her. Its a twisted perspective of some people. That others need to be fully commited from the start to the point of leaving everything to see them. You rarely get that and even when you do that person probably has nothing else going on in their life so they can commit that much. This guy clearly does. And if she wants somebody who would commit himslef in that way, then yes, somebody like this and especially because long distance, is not an option for her.

This and also -hmmmmm -if he dumped his plans with his dad to see her again - not sure that's a good look for him as a future partner.  As far as expressing interest in seeing her again -he's away from home and quite busy - the instant gratification she needs is a wee bit much.  I'd give him time to travel home, do his laundry and then reach out to her to see if they can come up with a plan.  Or she can make a proper plan with him that takes into account his time and his travel.

[rainbowsandroses]

1 hour ago, MissCanuck said:

Who says he won't? OP didn't even mention this. She was referring to be disappointed that he wasn't able to meet her today. 

Yeah, I see now after she clarified, this is why she is disappointed.

Which I suppose is her right, she's allowed to feel however she feels, regardless of how unrealistic the expectation is according to others.  Without being accused of having a poor "attitude" and needs therapy.

Jmo on that, I know it differs from the norm.

Anyway, time will tell. 

Keep us posted @kim42.

[Batya33]

Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

Yeah, I see now after she clarified, this is why she is disappointed.

Which I suppose is her right, she's allowed to feel however she feels, regardless of how unrealistic the expectation is according to others.  Without being accused of having a poor "attitude." 

Jmo on that, I know it differs from the norm.

Anyway, time will tell. 

Keep us posted @kim42.

She can feel like she feels - I agree with how Catfeeder commented on her attitude.  I wrote that obviously she doesn't have to date him or anyone -obviously she's entitled to her standards.  I had a friend who I believe is still single - when we were in our 30s and early 40s and both in the dating scene she wouldn't date men with red hair/thinning hair/bald/poor teeth/diabetes in the family/overweight at all.  And no divorced men/men with kids.  She felt she was an awesome catch and entitled to her standards.  She did complain on and off again about how hard it was to meet men who met her standards and she so badly wanted marriage and kids  - but certainly she was entitled and wasn't hurting anyone else.  More power to her.  She's 56 now and I believe still single -I know she was 5 years ago.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

I agree Batya, with such high standards and expectations, the more difficult dating and finding the right man will be. 

I am a huge proponent of being open and flexible.  Which is why I suggested remaining open to all possibilities even with THIS man should he ask her out at a later date. 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

Still waiting to hear back from Kim about what she wants and envisions happening.  

A quick weekend fling or an ongoing dating relationship?

Heck, I live in San Diego and dating men from Los Angeles (a 3-hour train ride) is quite common.  It's not a big deal, we saw each other on weekends.

This guy is a 2-hour train ride, it's doable so to say he can't ask you out for next week is a cop out.

Try to relax and enjoy the process, the journey.  I think you'll be much happier if you do

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

2 hours ago, kim42 said:

I still can't help but feel a little disappointed that he didn't try to make time to see me today, especially because I felt we really clicked yesterday.

It’s ok to feel your feelings. The issue is that you’re having cognitive distortions, black and white thinking, in nearly all of your posts. 
 

you’re saying, “if he really liked me he would have done xyz.”  But this is unrealistic. You’re so focused on him behaving a certain way, in very strict binary, that you’re missing the things he has done that point to him liking you; and you’re robbing him of autonomy.  This is why I say you’re playing a game he isn’t privy to, did you let him know that if he’s interested in you he has to agree to jump through your list of hoops, and if not he’s disqualified?

 

you seem like the type of person who, in a relationship, would get upset at your partner for not texting back quick enough: “if you really liked me and wanted to be with me you wouldn’t take an hour to respond!”  Meanwhile discrediting the fact he’s with you, cleans, cooks dinner, takes you on dates, and just generally shows up for you 

 

im just not understanding how you’re hyper focusing on a small detail and overlooking the other very obvious signs 

 

if you leave, and he doesn’t stay in touch and offer to see you again in the future, and it becomes obvious he’s sort of avoiding your attempt at connection, then that’s a more realistic sign that he’s not into it.   But he just saw you for 5 hours! +4 hour commute. He just put 9 hours into you.  Why do you want him to be obsessive? Again, do you have an anxious attachment style?

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I agree Batya, with such high standards and expectations, the more difficult dating and finding the right man will be. 

I am a huge proponent of being open and flexible.  Which is why I suggested remaining open to all possibilities even with THIS man should he ask her out at a later date. 

 

I don't think this situation requires either.  Just basic common sense and playing nicely in the sandbox when it comes to respecting people's time and priorities.  She played nicely so far meaning she didn't tell him her feelings on the matter - like I said she's not required to date anyone and is entitled to stick to her standards and accept the downsides.  I had downsides with my standards too and I accepted them.

[kim42]

Someone has asked what my expectations for this weekend were - I wanted to get to know him better and see if we are attracted to each other more than coworkers. I wasn't looking for a weekend fling.

I think because he made plans to meet in his city and put a lot of effort at the beginning, and because we spent 5 hours together yesterday, I probably expected him to follow up afterwards in a different way.

I didn't expect him to cancel all his Sunday plans - again, I understand he has his own life - but I think the main difference between me and him is that for him it was probably just a fun afternoon with some flirting and touching, while I was expecting a follow up from him. I thought he'd say he wants to see me again or something.

I mean he said nice things after the date but for some reason I was expecting something else.

I think it's maybe because I didn't spent this much time on a first meet/date with a man before.

Also, I have no idea what HE expected from the weekend. He said he's attracted to me but he didn't try to sleep with me so I don't know. 

As for the distance, 2 hours is just the train itself, for me it's 2,5 hours and fir him almost 4 hours I think.

Maybe my expectations are unrealistic indeed, I do realize I tend to focus on the negative things.

 

[Wiseman2]

It seems like he likes you but is as aware of the logistical problems as much as you are.  

[kim42]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

It’s ok to feel your feelings. The issue is that you’re having cognitive distortions, black and white thinking, in nearly all of your posts. 
 

you’re saying, “if he really liked me he would have done xyz.”  But this is unrealistic. You’re so focused on him behaving a certain way, in very strict binary, that you’re missing the things he has done that point to him liking you; and you’re robbing him off autonomy 

 

you seem like the type of person who, in a relationship, would get upset at your partner for not texting back quick enough: “if you really liked me and wanted to be with me you wouldn’t take an hour to respond!”  Meanwhile discrediting the fact he’s with you, cleans, cooks dinner, takes you on dates, and just generally shows up for you 

 

im just not understanding how you’re hyper focusing on a small detail and overlooking the other very obvious signs 

 

if you leave, and he doesn’t stay in touch and offer to see you again in the future, and it becomes obvious he’s sort of avoiding your attempt at connection, then that’s a more realistic sign that he’s not into it.   But he just saw you for hours! +4 hour commute. He just put 9 hours into you.  Why do you want him to be obsessive? Again, do you have an anxious attachment style?

I agree with the black and white thinking, and I realize I'm being hyper vigilant. I think it's because I had so many bad experiences with men, I tend to see red flags everywhere and it's true that I have this scenario in my head on how a man should behave if he's interested, and I do realize that is unhealthy.

I think I have a hard time believing that someone could like me and not play any games, and that's why I'm focusing on small details.

Thanks for your feedback, this is something I need to work on. 

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I agree with the black and white thinking, and I realize I'm being hyper vigilant. I think it's because I had so many bad experiences with men, I tend to see red flags everywhere and it's true that I have this scenario in my head on how a man should behave if he's interested, and I do realize that is unhealthy.

I think I have a hard time believing that someone could like me and not play any games, and that's why I'm focusing on small details.

Thanks for your feedback, this is something I need to work on. 

Yes so in a way you take it out on someone new so that it's guilty till proven innocent -that's  a pretty tough burden to put on someone especially someone who spent 5 hours with you for a lunch plan out of one weekend or so he was in town.  Again you don't have to date and your default hyper vigilance is perfectly fine -you seem aware of, and accept the downsides.

I hope you get to know him in the way you would like -perhaps he will be happy to adhere to your standards -which he would be entitled to do as well!

I liked Wiseman's comment a great deal about perhaps him realizing the issues with the logistics here.  My future husband and I were long distance for quite awhile so I can relate to logistics!

[kim42]

Another little update: I'm on my way back home and he texted me - he complimented a photo of me from this weekend, and he said he hopes I had a great day exploring the city with my friends. He also said to text him once I get home.

I think that this is positive that he's reached out, right?

I also appreciate your comments and feedback, it has helped me to realize that I didn't even appreciate the lunch meet up yesterday because I was so focused on what he didn't do based on the scenario in my head.

As you can probably tell, dating gives me anxiety and I know I shouldn't be this focused on what he's doing 'wrong'.

I think it's hard for me to just relax and enjoy the journey as someone said, my brain keeps looking for red flags.

[NighttimeNightmare]

the issue with the cognitive distortions are that they are helpful and protective when dealing with dangerous people, which is why you’ve developed these mechanisms in the first place

 

but, at some point you’ll meet people who aren’t dangerous and the issue becomes that you’re viewing them as guilty until proven innocent, as someone else said.  You’re holding them to rigid standards that are ok to hold ‘dangerous’ people to, but more emotionally healthy people don’t need such tight chains 

 

I empathize with you because I struggled with black and white thinking for a long, long time.  I still do sometimes.  But I try my best to ask outsiders their opinion on things so I can “see” outside of any unfair bias I may be bringing to the table. You seem to be doing the same, youre aware, if the distortions are causing you issues in interpersonal relationships then you can start undoing them and working on returning to a more neutral space — it doesn’t mean people wont let you down ever again, it just means that if they do you can see and accept it for what it is, instead of seeing disappointment where it is not  

 

as you can see, with some rope extended, he has reached out and your ideas may not have been true 

[Batya33]

4 minutes ago, kim42 said:

Another little update: I'm on my way back home and he texted me - he complimented a photo of me from this weekend, and he said he hopes I had a great day exploring the city with my friends. He also said to text me once I get home.

I think that this is positive that he's reached out, right?

I also appreciate your comments and feedback, it has helped me to realize that I didn't even appreciate the lunch meet up yesterday because I was so focused on what he didn't do based on the scenario in my head.

As you can probably tell, dating gives me anxiety and I know I shouldn't be this focused on what he's doing 'wrong'.

I think it's hard for me to just relax and enjoy the journey as someone said, my brain keeps looking for red flags.

I really am so sorry you feel so anxious!! The last day or so I've felt unusually anxious including about really silly stuff so when you wrote this ... well, I get it! 

I really like what he wrote to you.  It's -personal, positive, friendly and asking for more contact from you.  I like it!!

[LotusBlack]

7 hours ago, kim42 said:

Ok I feel I need to clarify one thing - we don't live in the same country, and I'm in his city for the weekend. 

He can't ask me to hamg out next week because I won't be here anymore.

Refer to below post - was a glitch in the network when I submitted my response.

[LotusBlack]

7 hours ago, kim42 said:

Ok I feel I need to clarify one thing - we don't live in the same country, and I'm in his city for the weekend. 

He can't ask me to hamg out next week because I won't be here anymore.

It’s 2 hours! That’s not very far. It takes me an hour and a half each way every day to get to work. My sister drives to our other sister’s house almost every weekend and they are also an hour and a half away. I don’t consider a 2-hour distance a long distance relationship at all, but, then, I’m from Australia and these kinds of distances are standard to even go to the beach or shopping centre. No one bats an eye here at a couple of hours.

Also, I think you are not putting in much effort at all, yourself. By your own admission, he is almost always the one to initiate contact and actually MAKE proper plans with you. If I were him, I’d think YOU were lukewarm at best and uninterested at most. Your expectations, as others have said, are beyond unreasonable. Also, I think him honouring his previous commitments with his father demonstrates a level of integrity that I would find very attractive. He doesn’t go back on his word. And, perhaps his father is unable to reschedule. 

Edited to add that I just read your update. Hope things keep going in a positive direction.

[catfeeder]

6 hours ago, kim42 said:

...it has helped me to realize that I didn't even appreciate the lunch meet up yesterday because I was so focused on what he didn't do based on the scenario in my head....

...I think it's hard for me to just relax and enjoy the journey as someone said, my brain keeps looking for red flags.

It's okay to have some anxiety, most people do. 

Consider what 'red flags' mean. They don't measure how much you can get someone to like you. They are warnings about dealbreakers that prevent YOU from liking THEM.

Read up on 'love bombing' and be careful not to wish for it. It doesn't turn out well. 

Remind yourself that every time you torture yourself about a guy, even if he does drop you, you'll have suffered twice instead of once--the first time being at your own hand.

Head high.

[kim42]

12 hours ago, LotusBlack said:

It’s 2 hours! That’s not very far. It takes me an hour and a half each way every day to get to work. My sister drives to our other sister’s house almost every weekend and they are also an hour and a half away. I don’t consider a 2-hour distance a long distance relationship at all, but, then, I’m from Australia and these kinds of distances are standard to even go to the beach or shopping centre. No one bats an eye here at a couple of hours.

Also, I think you are not putting in much effort at all, yourself. By your own admission, he is almost always the one to initiate contact and actually MAKE proper plans with you. If I were him, I’d think YOU were lukewarm at best and uninterested at most. Your expectations, as others have said, are beyond unreasonable. Also, I think him honouring his previous commitments with his father demonstrates a level of integrity that I would find very attractive. He doesn’t go back on his word. And, perhaps his father is unable to reschedule. 

Edited to add that I just read your update. Hope things keep going in a positive direction.

We're both in Europe so we'd have to take a train. I agree that it's not that far but at the same time the tickets can be expensive.

I'm not sure if a long-distance relationship is a good option for someone like me as I get easily anxious.

I think I showed him that I'm interested, I planned my day around his lunch suggestion on Saturday and then I told him about my plans for yesterday afternoon, and that he could join me if he was free (he couldn't make it because of the thing with his dad).

I texted him last night when I got back home - as he asked me to do, and I also thanked him for his time on Saturday.

I think he probably knows that I'm interested, I mean I think it's obvious from my actions.

So am I being again unrealistic if I think he should offer to see me again and put some effort into planning it (if he's interested of course)?

Because I'm not sure what to do now. 

[Batya33]

Since it wasn't an actual date and you know why he couldn't see you again so soon -and you haven't yet suggested a proper date -meaning plan ahead, a specific activity- I wouldn't stand on ceremony.

If you're already thinking this will be too expensive to see each other at least twice a month -if you start dating in the future -I'd not pursue this.  I totally hear you on the expense -we often flew to each other when we were long distance but- we could afford it/we could regularly combine it with a business trip and/or he needed to come to our home city to visit his parents anyway. 

Also fair point - LDR do mean perhaps more trust needed, etc -I didn't need that at all. I trusted him 100%/always have and the one time I felt anxious about his interest level was when he was actually in town and was out of touch for most of a day when he should have been in touch. We'd been back together around 6 months by that time.

I saw him later that night and didn't pester him but there was a perfectly rational and good reason.  One time in 18 years of being with him this time around.  I never felt the need to monitor him/ask him what he'd been up to -nothing, ever.  

Since he is a busy person and lives far and you're being honest about your personal downsides and are already this intense before you're even dating -I'd say on balance not worth it.  I'm sorry.

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, kim42 said:

I'm not sure if a long-distance relationship is a good option for someone like me as I get easily anxious.

So then again I ask, what was/is the goal here?  A weekend fling (not necessarily sex) and that's it? 

By your own accord, you're not interested in a long distance relationship which yuu consider this to be, so I'm not getting why the focus on him spending one more day with you this weekend?

What is it?  To have this weekend together because you're in town only to never see you again because you don't want to do long distsnce? 

I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense. 

He probably feels the same as you, he doesn't want long distance so what's the point of spending more time together this weekend? 

You are taking it personally and attaching meaning to it like he's not interested.

He may or may not be, it doesn't matter.  You don't want a long distance thing so there's NO point pursuing this further even just one more day because you're in town.

 

 

[rainbowsandroses]

I also want to say he seems like a good guy.  There are some guys knowing you're long distance and thus very little chance of anything substantial developing would have taken advantage of that situation, wined and dined you Saturday, spent Sunday together like you wanted, had sex with you, and then dumped you claiming the distance was too great to go further. 

Would you have preferred that? 

[Batya33]

10 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

So then again I ask, what was/is the goal here?  A weekend fling (not necessarily sex) and that's it? 

By your own accord, you're not interested in a long distance relationship which yuu consider this to be, so I'm not getting why the focus on him spending one more day with you this weekend?

What is it?  To have this weekend together because you're in town only to never see you again because you don't want to do long distsnce? 

I'm sorry but this makes absolutely no sense. 

He probably feels the same as you, he doesn't want long distance so what's the point of spending more time together this weekend? 

You are taking it personally and attaching meaning to it like he's not interested.

He may or may not be, it doesn't matter.  You don't want a long distance thing so there's NO point pursuing this further even just one more day because you're in town.

 

 

Very well put. I totally agree particularly since we were long distance so I have some context. 

[Batya33]

Just now, rainbowsandroses said:

I also want to say he seems like a good guy.  There are some guys knowing you're long distance and thus very little chance of anything substantial developing would have taken advantage of that situation, wined and dined you, spent Sunday together, had sex with you, and then dumped you claiming the distance was too great to go further. 

Would you have preferred that? 

Yes. I had a fling with my friend’s boyfriend’s friend in August 1994 for a few days. We did not have sex.  We had so much fun and it was so romantic and he was a total gentleman.

I was single and he’d ended a relationship some time before that. I think we had 3 dates total. We both knew without saying that trying long distance would never happen.

Three hour time difference and 5 hour flight. We were in our late 20s.  He said to me when I was leaving to go home - so do you want to try to see each other ? And - it was so genuine and no one was hurt - I said - I wish we could and I just don’t see how it could work.
He agreed but the vibe was - no one felt hurt or “rejected “ - we had so much fun and knew the limits.

I think we sent each other little gifts shortly after and saw each other through our mutual friends over a couple of years after. All good. No regrets.

You have to know your own personal limits and it’s great when two people can just be real and not let ego get in the way. 

[rainbowsandroses]

21 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes. I had a fling with my friend’s boyfriend’s friend in August 1994 for a few days. We did not have sex.  We had so much fun and it was so romantic and he was a total gentleman.

I was single and he’d ended a relationship some time before that. I think we had 3 dates total. We both knew without saying that trying long distance would never happen.

Three hour time difference and 5 hour flight. We were in our late 20s.  He said to me when I was leaving to go home - so do you want to try to see each other ? And - it was so genuine and no one was hurt - I said - I wish we could and I just don’t see how it could work.
He agreed but the vibe was - no one felt hurt or “rejected “ - we had so much fun and knew the limits.

I think we sent each other little gifts shortly after and saw each other through our mutual friends over a couple of years after. All good. No regrets.

You have to know your own personal limits and it’s great when two people can just be real and not let ego get in the way. 

Perhaps that's what the OP wanted.  One romantic weekend together and that's it. 

I am glad it worked out well for you Bat, and that you have a nice memory of it BUT in today's dating environment 30 years later, it's far more likely things would not have turned out quite so well per my previous post. 

And @kim42I think you need to be prudent and cautious and stay clear of these types of unrealistic expectations and allowing your Ego (of needing him to be interested) to drive your thought process.

It makes no sense to spend two days together this weekend only to never see each other again due to the distance. 

Again, I am glad he turned out to be a good guy. 

[kim42]

21 minutes ago, rainbowsandroses said:

I also want to say he seems like a good guy.  There are some guys knowing you're long distance and thus very little chance of anything substantial developing would have taken advantage of that situation, wined and dined you Saturday, spent Sunday together like you wanted, had sex with you, and then dumped you claiming the distance was too great to go further. 

Would you have preferred that? 

As I explained yesterday, I wasn't looking for a weekend fling and I didn't travel to another country to have sex with him.

I wanted to get to know him better and see how we get along outside work. I liked how he made plans and stayed in touch prior to our lunch, he was very consistent and respectful in his messages, so I thought I'd give it a try and spend some time with him.

I'm not saying I am strictly against having a long distance relationship but I realize it might not be a good option for someone like me.