First "date" confusion

[kim42]

17 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Kim, do you fear he'll say "no" if you ask him if he still plans to visit? Is remaining in this anxious limbo preferable to hearing a "no"?

I personally despise anxious limbo. I would rather deal with some disappointment than be mired in anxiety, ruminating, losing sleep, having my appetite affected, etc. 

Yes, that's my fear that he will say "no" but I realize it's unhealthy to spend so much time thinking about this so I think direct communication would be better.

[MissCanuck]

It would be disappointing to hear "no", but surely it's better to put this to rest than continue to ruminate in silence. 

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, kim42 said:

Yes, that's my fear that he will say "no" but I realize it's unhealthy to spend so much time thinking about this so I think direct communication would be better.

I agree. It doesn't seem like you've been having fun obsessively ruminating, speculating and having defeatist anxious thoughts.

If he says he can't make it at least you can finally have an answer (a real answer, not speculation or assumptions) and you can put this to rest. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

6 hours ago, kim42 said:

He's never ignored any of my messages and was always very quick to reply.

Has he ignored your messages now?   Also if I recall correctly, your definition of “ignoring messages” could be that someone didn’t respond back in a few hours.  Which is an unfair definition

 

as far as being quick to reply, there could have been numerous reasons for that, novelty, a pending adventure, life circumstances. Etc.   Now he’s unemployed and job hunting, and the girl he was talking to has been radio silent for 12 days

I had to learn the hard lesson that peoples emotions and behaviors aren’t black and white and you need to learn this too

6 hours ago, kim42 said:

I admit I need a lot of reassurance in these situations, I tend to have all these negative thoughts.

And he can’t be the one to reassure you

you can’t have this out of control anxiety giving you thoughts that if a guy does xyz, then he likes you, so you’ll only go forward if xyz is consistently maintained.  Hell, I didn’t contact the woman I like for several days cos I felt like *** and got overwhelmed with life, doesn’t mean I don’t like her.  She reached out and I didn’t respond for a day, when usually I respond immediately  

 

3 hours ago, kim42 said:

I know it's strange, so even if it doesn't work out with this guy, at least I want to try to do things in a different way.

This is exactly it.  The goal in this is to start to practice getting out of your anxiety spirals and avoiding them all together. Now is a great time to practice 

your relationship with him is very ambiguous, none of this is about getting with him romantically, it’s about acknowledging you aren’t a mind reader and you need to consult with reality here. You do that by messaging this guy. 
 

Stop focusing on the “facts” you think you have (he didn’t msg for days, he usually responds quickly etc etc) because those behaviors aren’t necessarily evidence for what you think they’re evidence of and your fixation on that is going to rob you of the truth, both now and in the future 

[kim42]

6 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Has he ignored your messages now?   Also if I recall correctly, your definition of “ignoring messages” could be that someone didn’t respond back in a few hours.  Which is an unfair definition

 

as far as being quick to reply, there could have been numerous reasons for that, novelty, a pending adventure, life circumstances. Etc.   Now he’s unemployed and job hunting, and the girl he was talking to has been radio silent for 12 days

I had to learn the hard lesson that peoples emotions and behaviors aren’t black and white and you need to learn this too

And he can’t be the one to reassure you

you can’t have this out of control anxiety giving you thoughts that if a guy does xyz, then he likes you, so you’ll only go forward if xyz is consistently maintained.  Hell, I didn’t contact the woman I like for several days cos I felt like *** and got overwhelmed with life, doesn’t mean I don’t like her.  She reached out and I didn’t respond for a day, when usually I respond immediately  

 

This is exactly it.  The goal in this is to start to practice getting out of your anxiety spirals and avoiding them all together. Now is a great time to practice 

your relationship with him is very ambiguous, none of this is about getting with him romantically, it’s about acknowledging you aren’t a mind reader and you need to consult with reality here. You do that by messaging this guy. 
 

Stop focusing on the “facts” you think you have (he didn’t msg for days, he usually responds quickly etc etc) because those behaviors aren’t necessarily evidence for what you think they’re evidence of and your fixation on that is going to rob you of the truth, both now and in the future 

No, he always replied to all of my messages.

I know I tend to have black and white thoughts. The xyz example is pretty much how I see any romantic interactions with men and it's hard to change this but I'll try.

Thank you for sharing your personal experience.

I don't want anxiety to control my life like this, so I need some practice.

[boltnrun]

Have you messaged him? Or are you still "thinking about" messaging him?

In the time it took you to post on here multiple times this morning you could have sent him a brief message and potentially had the answer you're looking for.

Don't procrastinate! You could resolve this today if you stop overthinking.

[kim42]

3 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Have you messaged him? Or are you still "thinking about" messaging him?

In the time it took you to post on here multiple times this morning you could have sent him a brief message and potentially had the answer you're looking for.

Don't procrastinate! You could resolve this today if you stop overthinking.

Not yet, I need to focus on work right now.

I'll text him and I'll keep you guys posted.

[NighttimeNightmare]

22 minutes ago, kim42 said:

No, he always replied to all of my messages.

Exactly 

22 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I know I tend to have black and white thoughts. The xyz example is pretty much how I see any romantic interactions with men and it's hard to change this but I'll try.

Me too. And it’s very difficult to not use rigid “100% facts” to be guided by. I struggle to break out of the black and white thinking when it’s my own things but with others I can see the dysfunction in it really clearly 

 

[Jaunty]

38 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I know I tend to have black and white thoughts. The xyz example is pretty much how I see any romantic interactions with men and it's hard to change this but I'll try.

Please do.  "xyz" is absolutely the wrong way to view romantic or frankly any interpersonal relationships.   People respond to things in individual ways.  Emotions like "romantic feelings" are often all over the place.  Unpredictable.

The worst possible thing is to attribute meanings to "xyz."  You can't have any idea.

What is OK, though, is to have personal needs / deal breakers.  If he gets drunk when you go on your first date, for example, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's not that into you.  It absolutely can, however, indicate something about him that YOU know that YOU don't want in a relationship partner.

That's an extremely clumsy example.  Sorry.

 

[kim42]

Little update - I texted him today and he didn't reply yet, so I think no response is also a response.

It's been around 2 hours and usually he replies very quickly. I know some of you will tell me he could be busy but thanks to my anxiety, I think he doesn't want to talk to me.

[Wiseman2]

7 minutes ago, kim42 said:

 - I texted him today and he didn't reply yet, it's been around 2 hours 

What did you text him? Give it a while. A couple hours is fine. 

[LotusBlack]

15 minutes ago, kim42 said:

Little update - I texted him today and he didn't reply yet, so I think no response is also a response.

It's been around 2 hours and usually he replies very quickly. I know some of you will tell me he could be busy but thanks to my anxiety, I think he doesn't want to talk to me.

You truly do spiral out of anxiety control. I would earnestly encourage you to seek some counselling in order to deal with you’re overwhelming and irrational thoughts. I don’t get the feeling you’re even trying to counteract those thoughts when they come up and it is really unfair on the person you are interacting with.

You and he haven’t had any kind of negative issue to where he has a reason to avoid you, so likely he is busy. Calm down and try to be reasonable with yourself.

Also, regarding him not bringing up visiting you - it could be awkward on his end to invite himself to someone else’s place after weeks with little/no contact. Although previously you invited him, it can be uncomfortable for someone -a guest - to remind a person - the host- about such a thing. So, (depending on what you wrote in your last text) I would query the loose plan for confirmation one way or the other.

[kim42]

13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

What did you text him? Give it a while. A couple hours is fine. 

Just a friendly message, I didn't mention the visit. 

[Sindy_0311]

He is not busy… he is just not into it… a man who is interested would reply as quick as possible. Two hours after 10 days of silence: this is his response. So move on… 

[Wiseman2]

16 minutes ago, kim42 said:

Just a friendly message, I didn't mention the visit. 

That's good. Give it some time. If he never responds unfortunately you'll have your answer. 

[kim42]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

That's good. Give it some time. If he never responds unfortunately you'll have your answer. 

Yes, at least I will know and I can move on.

[kim42]

33 minutes ago, LotusBlack said:

You truly do spiral out of anxiety control. I would earnestly encourage you to seek some counselling in order to deal with you’re overwhelming and irrational thoughts. I don’t get the feeling you’re even trying to counteract those thoughts when they come up and it is really unfair on the person you are interacting with.

You and he haven’t had any kind of negative issue to where he has a reason to avoid you, so likely he is busy. Calm down and try to be reasonable with yourself.

Also, regarding him not bringing up visiting you - it could be awkward on his end to invite himself to someone else’s place after weeks with little/no contact. Although previously you invited him, it can be uncomfortable for someone -a guest - to remind a person - the host- about such a thing. So, (depending on what you wrote in your last text) I would query the loose plan for confirmation one way or the other.

Thank you, I'll talk to my therapist about it.

I understand that about the visit, that's why I just sent a friendly message to start with.

[kim42]

He replied, apologized for the late reply and asked me many questions.

I'll talk to my therapist about my negative thoughts.

[boltnrun]

16 minutes ago, kim42 said:

He replied, apologized for the late reply and asked me many questions.

I'll talk to my therapist about my negative thoughts.

Please do.  I can't imagine your disaster mongering is much fun. 

Fortunately you didn't unload on him or send him something like "I can see you're not interested so I won't bother you anymore".

[NighttimeNightmare]

Dialectical behavioral therapy is great at treating these sorts of behaviors you're exhibiting. 
 

you’re using his actions, or inactions, to control how you feel.  Thing is, him responding to you doesn’t mean he’s interested either. It simply means he responded.  But yet, his response has settled you, at least temporarily. You’ll be back in this same spiral the moment there’s a lapse in his response time. 
 

and the thing is, it’s not that peoples behaviors don’t clue us in to how they may be feeling, they do.  But that only works if you’re not assigning your own fear-covered meanings to micro behaviors, you’d have to look at the big picture 

 

like bolt said, it’s a good thing you didn’t send a snarky message because he didn’t respond “quick enough,” people get busy, people sleep, they go camping, they shower, etc. people aren’t always tied to their phones. 

[kim42]

4 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Dialectical behavioral therapy is great at treating these sorts of behaviors you're exhibiting. 
 

you’re using his actions, or inactions, to control how you feel.  Thing is, him responding to you doesn’t mean he’s interested either. It simply means he responded.  But yet, his response has settled you, at least temporarily. You’ll be back in this same spiral the moment there’s a lapse in his response time. 
 

and the thing is, it’s not that peoples behaviors don’t clue us in to how they may be feeling, they do.  But that only works if you’re not assigning your own fear-covered meanings to micro behaviors, you’d have to look at the big picture 

 

like bolt said, it’s a good thing you didn’t send a snarky message because he didn’t respond “quick enough,” people get busy, people sleep, they go camping, they shower, etc. people aren’t always tied to their phones. 

I wasn't even thinking about sending a snarky message, I wouldn't do that.

I know it seems from this thread that all I focus on is him but I do have a life outside of this too.

I know it doesn't mean that he's interested, and I certainly don't want to stay in this cycle forever. 

Thank you everyone for your patience.

[NighttimeNightmare]

I’m glad you ended up texting him! 

[Jaunty]

2 hours ago, LotusBlack said:

You truly do spiral out of anxiety control. I would earnestly encourage you to seek some counselling in order to deal with you’re overwhelming and irrational thoughts. I don’t get the feeling you’re even trying to counteract those thoughts when they come up and it is really unfair on the person you are interacting with.

I agree with this.   @kim42, you're not trying -  it shows because you continuously bring it here.  He didn't text for 2 hours, so he's not going to, according to your crystal ball of anxiety.

I do not think that you can possibly form a healthy relationship as long as you continue this pattern.  The other person basically does not really exist because you are attributing whatever your anxiety tells you to any move they make, or don't make.  So, terribly unfair to them.  They would never know what kind of minefield they'd be stepping into.  

 

[kim42]

12 hours ago, Jaunty said:

I agree with this.   @kim42, you're not trying -  it shows because you continuously bring it here.  He didn't text for 2 hours, so he's not going to, according to your crystal ball of anxiety.

I do not think that you can possibly form a healthy relationship as long as you continue this pattern.  The other person basically does not really exist because you are attributing whatever your anxiety tells you to any move they make, or don't make.  So, terribly unfair to them.  They would never know what kind of minefield they'd be stepping into.  

 

I'm aware of my anxiety issues, and I will work on this with my therapist.

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, kim42 said:

He replied, apologized for the late reply and asked me many questions.

See? All it took was a bit of polite staying in touch. What did you two talk about? If he doesn't bring up visiting on his own try not to press the issue. Maybe since he's unemployed he can't afford it at this time. If he wants to and can afford to, he'll bring it up. In the meantime it's fine to stay in light touch and not overinvest or underinvest.