First "date" confusion

[kim42]

23 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

But for many men (and women!) that's embarrassing. Who wants to say "I can't afford to come visit you"? Especially a potential romantic prospect or even a work colleague? That's tantamount to admitting you are poor at managing your finances or highlighting that you haven't been able to find a job. 

Please do consider networking or social groups to expand your circle. Mr. Right could be a member of a group hoping to meet a woman exactly like you. 

I get it can be embarrasing. 

I know his current situation is not easy, and I understand he could've changed his mind. I'm someone who appreciates clarity and I know he's a very direct person so as I mentioned earlier today, the fact he went radio silent after talking so much is a little disappointing.

Well, at least he lives far so it will be easier to move on.

[kim42]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Are you able, at all, to sit with the idea that perhaps he thinks you’re busy on your trip and that’s why he isn’t contacting you?

it may not be truth, but having the ability to entertain outcomes other than fatalistic ones is good practice 

I’m just playing the devils advocate here, he may be incredibly stressed out and thinking “if she contacts me we can plan more, if she doesn’t then there’s my answer”

not saying it’s a truth, but it’s a possibility 

Ok but you both were equally engaging one another, and you both equally stopped

 

can you send him a text right now? You won’t look needy, you will look like someone who is direct and seeking clarity. 
 

Dont imbed the text with emotions or a long winded thing. Keep it simple “hi [name], how are things on your end? Are we still on for the end of august?”

 

then let us know what he says. 

As for other reasons for not texting, I thought that maybe he doesn't have much going on at the moment since he's unemployed, and he knows I'm busy at work so he doesn't want to bother.

If I decide to text him and he replies, I'll let you guys know.

[Jaunty]

I think it might help you to look at the beginning of this 15 page thread.

You started right off the bat with "is he "interested?"  and fretting over the level of his interest.  

After you two had planned a lunch date, you asked him about meeting for drinks later and he said "play it by ear."  He declined to do that when you actually met.

So you ended up spending that one afternoon together and having a good time.  Sounded really nice!  

The ensuing 14.7122 pages are you spinning in place about his level of interest, how much you should be texting, will he or wont he visit.

Do you realize how much emotional energy, including anxiety, you just wasted on ... nothing?

"Nothing" because you were absolutely going to find out whether he was really interested in dating you, as well as whether he'd be visiting you in late August.  You would find out by his actions. You could have just been living your life.  

I know you had / have a crush, but it can't be too intense since your interactions with him have been quite minimal.   Right?

In the future you will be doing yourself a favor if you can curtail all of this extra stuff.  It's hard on a person.  

 

[kim42]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Yes, I mean there’s a balance to it. You don’t know yourself up in ways that are clearly dangerous or anything like that. But you become more opened and direct to get the clarity you need in situations in order to counteract these anxiety spirals 

I have my own situation going on where I’ve decided to not say anything because of fear of rejection, awkwardness, etc so I totally get it. It’s easy being on the outside for me to see a clear pathway in what will get you closer to the truth and moving forward, whatever that may mean 

right now we are just guessing when in actuality you can reach out and solve a lot. And obviously we are all here for you once you do that 

Thank you for your input, it helps me to see things in a different light.

[kim42]

19 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

I think it might help you to look at the beginning of this 15 page thread.

You started right off the bat with "is he "interested?"  and fretting over the level of his interest.  

After you two had planned a lunch date, you asked him about meeting for drinks later and he said "play it by ear."  He declined to do that when you actually met.

So you ended up spending that one afternoon together and having a good time.  Sounded really nice!  

The ensuing 14.7122 pages are you spinning in place about his level of interest, how much you should be texting, will he or wont he visit.

Do you realize how much emotional energy, including anxiety, you just wasted on ... nothing?

"Nothing" because you were absolutely going to find out whether he was really interested in dating you, as well as whether he'd be visiting you in late August.  You would find out by his actions. You could have just been living your life.  

I know you had / have a crush, but it can't be too intense since your interactions with him have been quite minimal.   Right?

In the future you will be doing yourself a favor if you can curtail all of this extra stuff.  It's hard on a person.  

 

I don't think our interactions were minimal, we have talked quite a lot.

I understand what you're trying to say, but it has helped to talk about it on here and I've learned a lot.

I know I have anxiety but I think I'll be able to handle it better next time.

 

[NighttimeNightmare]

27 minutes ago, kim42 said:

If I decide to text him and he replies, I'll let you guys know.

Just send it now

 

if he doesn’t respond, if he turns you down: 

2 hours ago, kim42 said:

Well, at least he lives far so it will be easier to move on.

 

[catfeeder]

10 hours ago, kim42 said:

I could abdolutely understand that he doesn't want to/can't travel when he's unemployed, it would be nice to tell me though.

You said he had planned to visit his family while unemployed but changed his mind to stay local and focus on the job search. So he's communicated his shift in priorities, and he's since said that he still hasn't found a job yet.

So here's the thing--unemployed people are in limbo. It likely never occurred to him that he 'should' preemptively decide that he cannot make the trip. It's likely not a stretch for him to envision accepting an offer to start in x weeks, phoning his family that he's coming, and jumping on his transport out there to take in some vacay before he starts his new job.

If he's not staying with you, then notifying you of when he can swing his own family trip is kind of incidental, but it may still be forthcoming. Maybe he'll find work in September? Next week? He doesn't KNOW.

As for falling off the radar? That's exactly what unemployed people DO. Picture sliding down low in your chair when you're in a classroom and feel like you don't want to be seen right now. People deep into a long job search rarely feel enlivened to reach out and ring bells to speak with anyone about that fact--and it's the only fact that matters to them at that moment. Nobody wants to talk about it. Under the radar is exactly where they want to be until they can feel like part of the human race again.

So? He's not operating according to your calendar, but that's because you would not be fixated on a calendar FOR him had you adopted the notion that he's just an acquaintance from another country who might be a future prospect for you someday.

Instead, you've been singling him out with a focus on him as your immediate prospect NOW.

Dear, that's on you. You've made yourself miserable with that, and you've set yourself up to view it through that lens--and through THAT lens, you lose.

Try another lens, and move your focus away from him. If he ever finds himself ready, able and interested in re-entering Kim Land, he knows how to reach you.

Head high.

[Sindy_0311]

Why don't you propose to go visit him? (Pretext that you will go meet your friends if its easier for you)... if he says he wants to see you, then arrange something. if he can't, at least you have your answer... 

[kim42]

36 minutes ago, Sindy_0311 said:

Why don't you propose to go visit him? (Pretext that you will go meet your friends if its easier for you)... if he says he wants to see you, then arrange something. if he can't, at least you have your answer... 

I'm definitely not doing this, I'm not going to chase him.

[MissCanuck]

32 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I'm definitely not doing this, I'm not going to chase him.

I agree with you. I would not recommend going to see him again, regardless of whether he thinks it’s to visit friends or not. 

He’s given nowhere near enough signs of interest to warrant another trip at this point. 

[kim42]

59 minutes ago, MissCanuck said:

I agree with you. I would not recommend going to see him again, regardless of whether he thinks it’s to visit friends or not. 

He’s given nowhere near enough signs of interest to warrant another trip at this point. 

I wasn't even thinking about doing it.

I think I didn't mention that he sent me some flirty messages after our lunch - it wasn't sexting but flirty. 

It doesn't matter anymore, I just thought I'd mention it here for the sake of clarity.

[kim42]

6 hours ago, catfeeder said:

You said he had planned to visit his family while unemployed but changed his mind to stay local and focus on the job search. So he's communicated his shift in priorities, and he's since said that he still hasn't found a job yet.

So here's the thing--unemployed people are in limbo. It likely never occurred to him that he 'should' preemptively decide that he cannot make the trip. It's likely not a stretch for him to envision accepting an offer to start in x weeks, phoning his family that he's coming, and jumping on his transport out there to take in some vacay before he starts his new job.

If he's not staying with you, then notifying you of when he can swing his own family trip is kind of incidental, but it may still be forthcoming. Maybe he'll find work in September? Next week? He doesn't KNOW.

As for falling off the radar? That's exactly what unemployed people DO. Picture sliding down low in your chair when you're in a classroom and feel like you don't want to be seen right now. People deep into a long job search rarely feel enlivened to reach out and ring bells to speak with anyone about that fact--and it's the only fact that matters to them at that moment. Nobody wants to talk about it. Under the radar is exactly where they want to be until they can feel like part of the human race again.

So? He's not operating according to your calendar, but that's because you would not be fixated on a calendar FOR him had you adopted the notion that he's just an acquaintance from another country who might be a future prospect for you someday.

Instead, you've been singling him out with a focus on him as your immediate prospect NOW.

Dear, that's on you. You've made yourself miserable with that, and you've set yourself up to view it through that lens--and through THAT lens, you lose.

Try another lens, and move your focus away from him. If he ever finds himself ready, able and interested in re-entering Kim Land, he knows how to reach you.

Head high.

Thank you, this is really helpful.

Just to clarify - after he left his job, his plan was to spend August in his home country with his family, and take some time off. After our lunch, when we talked about our plans for August, he decided to stay in his city and look for a job. So maybe he will visit them later month. I realize being unemployed is not easy. 

And yes, when we talked about him visiting me, I said he could stay with me. He offerred me to stay with him when I was in his city so I thought I should do the same.

[NighttimeNightmare]

Text him for the truth or none of your fears matter as far as reality is concerned

 

youre still basing all of this off of 11 days of silence.  When previously it was all more equal. It still is equal because you’ve been silent too. 
 

have you texted him?? 

[boltnrun]

If he's supposed to stay with you it's not "needy" to ask him to confirm. I would want to know if or when a house guest is arriving. 

[kim42]

31 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Text him for the truth or none of your fears matter as far as reality is concerned

 

youre still basing all of this off of 11 days of silence.  When previously it was all more equal. It still is equal because you’ve been silent too. 
 

have you texted him?? 

No I didn't. I think I know that he's not interested any longer.

I appreciate your advice though.

[kim42]

25 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

If he's supposed to stay with you it's not "needy" to ask him to confirm. I would want to know if or when a house guest is arriving. 

That makes sense but we didn't have firm dates, it was just late August.

I think it would be just awkward to reach out to him after such a long silence. He's probably moved on and I should do the same.

[Sindy_0311]

3 minutes ago, kim42 said:

That makes sense but we didn't have firm dates, it was just late August.

I think it would be just awkward to reach out to him after such a long silence. He's probably moved on and I should do the same.

Probably… but you don’t know… why not text him, so at least if he is not available it will be easier for you to move on. Give it a last try… 

[NighttimeNightmare]

9 minutes ago, kim42 said:

No I didn't. I think I know that he's not interested any longer.

I appreciate your advice though.

No you don’t. He might not be, but he may be.  If YOU are not, that’s valid too. But at least base your lack of interest on things rooted in reality.  You’re not, you’re going by 11 days of silence which you also contributed to  

-you are in this guys city and the two of you arrange to meet up

-he spends a total of 9 hours of his time, in one day, devoted to you 

-you have a great time 

-the two of you keep in touch

-you fall into anxiety spirals over what he says, when he says it, how he says it etc 

-he sends flirty messages to you and there’s talks of meeting up again

-anxiety spiral continues. You make broad and rigid statements about his feelings towards you, based on your anxiety, instead of actually communicating with him about it directly 

-talks about him meeting you the end of august but he becomes unemployed and begins job searching.  He cancels a trip involving his parenrs

-you BOTH stop texting for 11 days

… but yet somehow it’s his responsibility to reach out to you, and when he doesn’t it’s concluded he doesn’t like you.  But you’re doing the same thing to him!!! If you judge your behavior by the same rules you apply to his, it would mean you don’t like him either.  But you do!!

sorry. I don’t buy it. 
 

had you have actually reached out to him 11 days ago checking in and he left you on read then I’d say, well ya leave it alone.  No response is a response.  But instead you’re on these boards using your anxiety and lack of being direct with him as “evidence” he doesn’t like you.  😂 

that’s really bad evidence.  He might not like you, and I agree you should have been living your life this entire time, but don’t call bad evidence good. You’re going to end up in this same cycle with the next man who you develop feelings for 

 

yes I will die on this hill.  Text him and ask!  “Are we still on for the end if august?”  That’s not NEEDY that’s following up 

[NighttimeNightmare]

23 minutes ago, kim42 said:

That makes sense but we didn't have firm dates, it was just late August.

Which is exactly why you need to reach out to him for clarification!  If it wasn’t a set in stone date that’s even more to my point that none of this necessarily points to a lack of interest. It’s more probable he got caught up in his job search and is stressed esp given he cancelled on his own parents

23 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I think it would be just awkward to reach out to him after such a long silence. He's probably moved on and I should do the same.

You are literally the author of your own misery with these strange lines of thought. It’s so fatalistic and negative and not representative of reality

 

”oh womp womp I refuse to text for basic clarity because I’m sure he’s moved on. Ya he prob has. No wait, I’m certain of it actually. Another day went by that he didn’t text, ok he must not be interested. I’d be so stupid and needy if I text. He’s moved on I guess, I should too”

 

… all that while literally not even being willing to CONSIDER he could be feeling the same based on the exact same behavior you’re doing to him.  Have you texted? No.  Are you interested? Yes.  So why is it that when he doesn’t text you’re positive it’s a lack of interest?  But when you don’t text it’s something else??? That’s called your anxiety and your cognitive distortions. 
 

He may NOT be interested, but you’re only going to get to the truth by actually speaking with him. Which you refuse to do, cause it’s easier to believe your own anxious fantasies 

[boltnrun]

25 minutes ago, kim42 said:

That makes sense but we didn't have firm dates, it was just late August.

I think it would be just awkward to reach out to him after such a long silence. He's probably moved on and I should do the same.

That's even MORE reason to ask. 

My friends just recently visited. I needed to know the exact dates so I could ask for time off from work.

I get that you're much more emotionally invested than I was in my friends, but anyone hosting a houseguest would need to know when they're arriving.

[kim42]

1 hour ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Which is exactly why you need to reach out to him for clarification!  If it wasn’t a set in stone date that’s even more to my point that none of this necessarily points to a lack of interest. It’s more probable he got caught up in his job search and is stressed esp given he cancelled on his own parents

You are literally the author of your own misery with these strange lines of thought. It’s so fatalistic and negative and not representative of reality

 

”oh womp womp I refuse to text for basic clarity because I’m sure he’s moved on. Ya he prob has. No wait, I’m certain of it actually. Another day went by that he didn’t text, ok he must not be interested. I’d be so stupid and needy if I text. He’s moved on I guess, I should too”

 

… all that while literally not even being willing to CONSIDER he could be feeling the same based on the exact same behavior you’re doing to him.  Have you texted? No.  Are you interested? Yes.  So why is it that when he doesn’t text you’re positive it’s a lack of interest?  But when you don’t text it’s something else??? That’s called your anxiety and your cognitive distortions. 
 

He may NOT be interested, but you’re only going to get to the truth by actually speaking with him. Which you refuse to do, cause it’s easier to believe your own anxious fantasies 

You made some very good points that I should take into consideration.

I think I am reluctant to text him because I was the last one to reach out for his birthday. It's true I didn't text him during these 11 days either but I think he doesn't have any reason to believe I'm not interested - I told him he could stay with me when he visits, I wished him happy birthday, and I asked about his job hunting situation. I tried to be supportive even though I was busy at work.

I mean I know he reached out in the past, he was the one making the first 'steps' when I told him I'd be in his city. I just see a difference in his behavior, if that makes sense. He's not a big texter but he never went this silent. I have experienced what he does when he's interested and it's not disappearing for 11 days. 

I think I am also influenced by some of my girlfriends - they text with some guys they met on dating apps and apparently they text 'nonstop'. 

[Wiseman2]

56 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I think I am also influenced by some of my girlfriends - they text with some guys they met on dating apps and apparently they text 'nonstop'. 

Agree. Try not to play dating games or compare situations. You already know texting all day every day is a red flag and nothing to aspire to.

You can't really compare what these GFs do in relationships to someone you barely know.

You can refuse to text him out of principle and continue to be angry with him that he's not "confirming"  vague plans. Or you could send a friendly text so he knows you're interested.  Nothing to lose. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, kim42 said:

You made some very good points that I should take into consideration.

I think I am reluctant to text him because I was the last one to reach out for his birthday. It's true I didn't text him during these 11 days either but I think he doesn't have any reason to believe I'm not interested - I told him he could stay with me when he visits, I wished him happy birthday, and I asked about his job hunting situation. I tried to be supportive even though I was busy at work.

I mean I know he reached out in the past, he was the one making the first 'steps' when I told him I'd be in his city. I just see a difference in his behavior, if that makes sense. He's not a big texter but he never went this silent. I have experienced what he does when he's interested and it's not disappearing for 11 days. 

I think I am also influenced by some of my girlfriends - they text with some guys they met on dating apps and apparently they text 'nonstop'. 

Which is a bad thing. Texting nonstop is a great way to crash and burn and become boring chat buddies. And it’s apples oranges. You said you’re not dating him and if they’re texting people on apps they never met or met once they’re not dating them either. Except online. Which isn’t dating. 

[kim42]

8 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Which is a bad thing. Texting nonstop is a great way to crash and burn and become boring chat buddies. And it’s apples oranges. You said you’re not dating him and if they’re texting people on apps they never met or met once they’re not dating them either. Except online. Which isn’t dating. 

I know it's bad, and I don't expect him or any other man to text me all the time.

It's hard for me to believe that someone who's interested would go silent for 11 days but there are some very interesting comments over here that help me to look at this from a different perspective.

[NighttimeNightmare]

12 minutes ago, kim42 said:

It's hard for me to believe that someone who's interested would go silent for 11 days

You’re doing it too!!!!!!