First "date" confusion

[kim42]

11 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Have you texted him at all during the 10 days? 
 

I mean, if not then couldn’t the same be said about you? 

No, I didn't text him during the 10 days. 

The last time we texted, it was his birthday, so I sent him a HB message and we texted for almost 2 hours about other things too.

I don't want to initiate another conversation because I don't want to come across as needy.

 

[kim42]

Also, sorry for my English, I feel that my sentences are not very good today 😁🦥

[Kwothe28]

1 minute ago, kim42 said:

I don't want to initiate another conversation because I don't want to come across as needy.

 

That is OK I think if he was interested in keeping the contact he would. He is not required to keep contact, but yes, if he was interested in something more he would not let it fizzle out.

Its a good reminder to set up your expectations low for stuff like this in the future. Distance is big so he doesnt feel obligated about anything. He maybe just doesnt feel its realistic to pursue you, maybe even found somebody locally. And yes, its a dissapointing. But again, that is why its good to set up a bar low next time if it happens. Live and learn. Sorry that it happened.

[NighttimeNightmare]

3 minutes ago, kim42 said:

No, I didn't text him during the 10 days. 

The last time we texted, it was his birthday, so I sent him a HB message and we texted for almost 2 hours about other things too.

I don't want to initiate another conversation because I don't want to come across as needy.

 

this is the issue with people who go into anxiety spirals.  The hard facts of the story are often accurate, but the story they tell is interwoven with feelings that the sufferer relays as definitive things. 
 

As an example: you’ve said with certainly that he’s “faded away” and all of these other dramatic terms.  Anyone listening to you is going to assume that you must have attempted to reach out to him because why else would someone make such statements 

well, anxiety.  

the thing is, you went quiet and “faded away” for 10 days too. How can the burden to soothe you be strictly on him? 
 

“if he was interested he’d have reached out” well you’re interested and you didn’t reach out. This is operating in anxiety, not reality.  You have to make an effort to live beyond your fears and be direct with the people you want to see.  
 

do I think he’s interested? I don’t know. The trip probably isn’t going to happen.  But I just think it’s ironic you put that burden on him but didn’t hold yourself to the same rigid set of rules. 
 

His friends could be telling him he’s nuts for wanting to take a trip with a girl who can’t even be bothered to text him for 10 days, “you deserve better bro.” 
 

so someone needs to be direct. It doesn’t need to be you, but then I don’t know that you get a pass for relaying events without being more honest about your equal lack of initiation

it may not work out with this guy but you don’t want to self sabotage anything in the future with men who are available for you simply because they didn’t pass the goal posts you set up, that they know nothing about. 

you’re playing a game and not notifying anyone that you signed them up to compete in it 

[NighttimeNightmare]

4 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I think if he was interested in keeping the contact he would. He is not required to keep contact, but yes, if he was interested in something more he would not let it fizzle out.

Why is the burden placed solely on him?

he didn’t leave her on read, she hasn’t reached out to him either. 
 

the exact same can be said to him, “she let it fizzle out dude, if she were interested you’d have heard from her. Move on”

it makes 0 sense. We can’t hold one person to those standards and not the other. I can guarantee that she appears equally as uninterested to him. He’s not seeing how upset she is by this or her anxiety spirals. She won’t even send him a message because she doesn’t want to seem “needy”. Lmao. I get it, but it’s going to look like a lack of interest to anyone she’s engaging with

again, do I think this particular guy is into her? I don’t know. I lean towards no, but I can also say that it’s a potential reality that he became uninterested because he felt she was 

she needs to be willing to reach out to people if she wants a relationship, it’s not right to sit on her hands and wait for everyone else to do the work and then turn around and say, “he didn’t contact me. I can’t believe this. He must not like me,” while literally doing the exact same thing to him 

[kim42]

15 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

That is OK I think if he was interested in keeping the contact he would. He is not required to keep contact, but yes, if he was interested in something more he would not let it fizzle out.

Its a good reminder to set up your expectations low for stuff like this in the future. Distance is big so he doesnt feel obligated about anything. He maybe just doesnt feel its realistic to pursue you, maybe even found somebody locally. And yes, its a dissapointing. But again, that is why its good to set up a bar low next time if it happens. Live and learn. Sorry that it happened.

Yes, I think it's possible he met someone local.

I'll remember this for next time, thank you.

[LootieTootie]

43 minutes ago, kim42 said:

 

It's not easy to go on dates for me at the moment, I have a new job that consumes a lot of my time, and I was also traveling a lot recently. And I don't go on dating apps anymore.

 

So are you not dating right now because your job is your main focus at the moment? You said you're not on dating apps any more.

I asked because when you have time for a 5 hour date, and spend hours texting someone back and forth (even if it was not a regular thing), I think you do have time to get out and go on dates. I mean definitely would understand if you said "terrible luck in finding a good match on those dating apps so I stopped." But if you say "don't have time." I don't know, I think you do have time but you are putting all your eggs in one basket hoping this guy shows you that he is invested.

 

[kim42]

22 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

this is the issue with people who go into anxiety spirals.  The hard facts of the story are often accurate, but the story they tell is interwoven with feelings that the sufferer relays as definitive things. 
 

As an example: you’ve said with certainly that he’s “faded away” and all of these other dramatic terms.  Anyone listening to you is going to assume that you must have attempted to reach out to him because why else would someone make such statements 

well, anxiety.  

the thing is, you went quiet and “faded away” for 10 days too. How can the burden to soothe you be strictly on him? 
 

“if he was interested he’d have reached out” well you’re interested and you didn’t reach out. This is operating in anxiety, not reality.  You have to make an effort to live beyond your fears and be direct with the people you want to see.  
 

do I think he’s interested? I don’t know. The trip probably isn’t going to happen.  But I just think it’s ironic you put that burden on him but didn’t hold yourself to the same rigid set of rules. 
 

His friends could be telling him he’s nuts for wanting to take a trip with a girl who can’t even be bothered to text him for 10 days, “you deserve better bro.” 
 

so someone needs to be direct. It doesn’t need to be you, but then I don’t know that you get a pass for relaying events without being more honest about your equal lack of initiation

it may not work out with this guy but you don’t want to self sabotage anything in the future with men who are available for you simply because they didn’t pass the goal posts you set up, that they know nothing about. 

you’re playing a game and not notifying anyone that you signed them up to compete in it 

You've made some good observations, I'll keep it in mind for future interactions with men.

As for this guy, I think I showed him that I'm interested, I wished him happy birthday and asked about his job situation. I then went on a vacation and he knew about it, and I thought he would send me a message and ask about my vacation. 

When we talked about the visit, I told him he can come in late August - I think he knows that I'm interested. It's true I didn't reach out in 10 days either.

[Kwothe28]

4 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Why is the burden placed solely on him?

 

Because she initiated contact last time. Not only that but she came to him to see him him, not the other way around. As far as her interest goes, there is very little doubt there. Its his interest that is under doubt. Because he doesnt convey it aside of flimsy promises how he would maybe come see OP. I mean I get it, he doesnt owe her anything. But even if he likes her, he could convey his interest better then just be radio silent for 10 days. 

I get what you are saying. Just dont think this one is on OP and that she should be on the block when she literally came to him to see him and initiates contact all the time. 

[Jaunty]

49 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I can't read his mind obviously but I believe there were several indications that he was interested.

"Indications" and your interpretation of those, unfortunately, don't really mean anything.  On the fortunate side of the scale - only ONE thing actually is meaningful in this type of situation.  That is a very clear invitation to pursue a relationship together.  If that doesn't happen, searching and deciphering of "clues" isn't worth your time at all.

Do you understand that it DOES NOT MATTER  if he had a feeling of interest?  The only thing that counts is the intention and follow through.  That involves a choice and evidently his choice was "no."

As has been said many times on your thread here, a person may have a strong boundary about pursuing a LDR and no amount of attraction will change that.  

Also, as has been mentioned here, many people won't pursue a relationship if they are unemployed and job hunting.  

They are not ready, the time is not right, the circumstances are not right, and it's not happening.

 

[Jaunty]

33 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

Why is the burden placed solely on him?

he didn’t leave her on read, she hasn’t reached out to him either. 
 

 

Yes she has.  She's the one driving this.  

[kim42]

3 minutes ago, LootieTootie said:

So are you not dating right now because your job is your main focus at the moment? You said you're not on dating apps any more.

I asked because when you have time for a 5 hour date, and spend hours texting someone back and forth (even if it was not a regular thing), I think you do have time to get out and go on dates. I mean definitely would understand if you said "terrible luck in finding a good match on those dating apps so I stopped." But if you say "don't have time." I don't know, I think you do have time but you are putting all your eggs in one basket hoping this guy shows you that he is invested.

 

I've been on many dates this year and had no luck so far. I met someone I was seeing for a while in April and May but then I noticed sone red flags so I ended it.

I took a break from dating after this 'red flag' guy because I started my new job. Then I traveled and I wasn't in my city for almost a month - with little breaks. Now I'm back and will start dating again.

That 5 hour date was on a weekend and I had to adjust my weekend plans in that city because I didn't expect to stay that long, so that was exceptional.

It's true that I didn't have a connection with someone like him in a while, and that's why I liked him.

I agree with you though, I should start dating more regularly.

[boltnrun]

7 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

she came to him to see him

I understood she was traveling there and added seeing him onto the trip. Not that she traveled there for the sole purpose of seeing him.

10 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I told him he can come in late August

Oh, so YOU are the one who set late August as the date? Perhaps with his job search he can't meet that deadline so he sort of gave up on the idea.

At any rate, I doubt he can afford a trip while unemployed, also he needs to stay close by in case a great potential employer asks for an interview. He can't exactly say "I can't, I have a trip planned". Add in long distance and I can see why he wouldn't pursue.

And I agree, if you have time to text for hours you have time for quick 30 minute coffee meetups. The right man could be around the corner but you'll never meet him if you're solely focused on this long distance guy. 

[kim42]

7 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Because she initiated contact last time. Not only that but she came to him to see him him, not the other way around. As far as her interest goes, there is very little doubt there. Its his interest that is under doubt. Because he doesnt convey it aside of flimsy promises how he would maybe come see OP. I mean I get it, he doesnt owe her anything. But even if he likes her, he could convey his interest better then just be radio silent for 10 days. 

I get what you are saying. Just dont think this one is on OP and that she should be on the block when she literally came to him to see him and initiates contact all the time. 

I should probably clarify this - I didn't come to see him. My trip to the city where he lives was planned long before he reached out to me, it had nothing to do with him. He said we should meet up AFTER I told him I'd be in his city. 

As for texting, we would usually take turns so I don't think it was me all the time.

I'm the one who probably needs more contact in this situation but he would text too - especially several days after our lunch.

[kim42]

11 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Yes she has.  She's the one driving this.  

I don't agree, I think we both initiated contact equally, we would usually take turns. And it was his idea to meet, not mine.

[NighttimeNightmare]

34 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Because she initiated contact last time.

I dunno about that, this sounds like a game with rules that both parties didn’t sign up to. As long as the communication is somewhat balanced you can’t really keep tabs like this. “I did it last time so this time I’ll fold my arms and pout.”  From what I understood of their story there seemed to be equal communication. And now it equally stopped.  She’s upset over it, and we’re assuming he’s not (which very well may be an accurate assumption, btw)

 

34 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

As far as her interest goes, there is very little doubt there

we know she’s interested because we are privy to this thread, she may be a lot more stoic with him.  She literally said she wouldn’t text to “not seem needy” 
 

we have no idea what it actually all looked like from his end. 
 

34 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Because he doesnt convey it aside of flimsy promises how he would maybe come see OP.

 

34 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

She literally came to him to see him and initiates contact all the time. 

Maybe I misunderstood the events earlier on but from what i had gathered, she was already in town for reasons other than him and he drove something like 4hours, to and from, to see her.  He’s put in effort 

 

34 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

But even if he likes her, he could convey his interest better then just be radio silent for 10 days. 

Yes, but so could she. she was also radio silent for 10 days. I just can’t wrap my mind around this one 

 

34 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I get what you are saying. Just dont think this one is on OP

I definitely am not saying im right, I don’t know that I am.  I just know that someone not texting for 10 days doesn’t mean they aren’t interested, clearly 

 

another disclaimer: I don’t necessarily think this man is interested in her. I’m moreso worried for her moving forward with new people, that she would enact these same rigid standards and sit on her hands waiting to see which hoops men will jump through without providing them the rule book in which they’re being judged by. 
 

id be curious what would occur if she were to text this particular person “hi I haven’t heard from you, are we still on for the end of august?”  It would be good practice in being direct and clear, and she’d get an answer and can move on from this guy 
 

 

[LootieTootie]

Just now, kim42 said:

I don't agree, I think we both initiated contact equally, we would usually take turns. And it was his idea to meet, not mine.

When I haven't seen someone in ages because of distance and I bump into them and I start chatting up with them, it can turn in to an hour or 2 hours long chat. Because what you're doing is catching up with them. Before you know it, you're having this bonding moment with them and it feels nice, and even make you feel fuzzy. And then you say "Oh ok well I have to run. It was nice seeing you. Let's keep in touch? When do you usually come back to town? Maybe I'll try to catch you then? Ok. Bye!" 

I just think it's all pleasantries - its just what people say to acquaintances. & no doubt, people will reach out sometimes for that quick meet or quick bite because they find you kind or interesting or both, and yes, they might even have some romantic feelings for you, but its not enough for them to make that overture to romance.

And thats ok. It just tells you that time to move on and yes, start dating again. If dating apps are not working, please consider joining local meetup groups. Do you like to read? Join a bookclub. Do you like animals? Maybe do animal rescue. Are you religious? Church have a lot of groups for different age groups. Do you like hiking? walking? Trivia? creative writing? coding? Theres lot of groups that caters to people hobbies.

 

[kim42]

32 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I understood she was traveling there and added seeing him onto the trip. Not that she traveled there for the sole purpose of seeing him.

Oh, so YOU are the one who set late August as the date? Perhaps with his job search he can't meet that deadline so he sort of gave up on the idea.

At any rate, I doubt he can afford a trip while unemployed, also he needs to stay close by in case a great potential employer asks for an interview. He can't exactly say "I can't, I have a trip planned". Add in long distance and I can see why he wouldn't pursue.

And I agree, if you have time to text for hours you have time for quick 30 minute coffee meetups. The right man could be around the corner but you'll never meet him if you're solely focused on this long distance guy. 

Yes, thanks for clarifying. Our lunch was indeed something I squeezed into my weekend plans in that city, I was there to see my friends.

I don't remember exactly, I think we both agreed on the end of August - he knew I was supposed to travel before. 

He wanted to visit his family in his home country in August, while he was unemployed, but then changed his mind and decided to stay in his city and look for a job.

I could abdolutely understand that he doesn't want to/can't travel when he's unemployed, it would be nice to tell me though.

I agree with your last paragraph, thank you.

[Kwothe28]

6 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

we have no idea what it actually all looked like from his end. 

I often wonder if stories would be different if we knew the other side. I had a friend from college. She had long distance boyfriend that I knew from my other friend since both of them were in the same city. Anyway, they lasted few months but she broke up because of his lack of effort since they didnt saw each other in a while and he didnt seem that eager. But I found out from my friend that the guy(her ex) literally bought the flowers and wanted to come see her and surprise her when she broke up with him over message.

So yes, we dont know the other side. But we work with what we know. Whole purpose of the Forum is to give a helpful advice to OP based on what we know and what OP can tell us. Now, some OPs can be an unreliable narrators. But we still work with what we are told. Not from what it looks like from other end. From what we know he maybe(like my friends ex) is buying flowers and wants to surprise her. But he doesnt convey any of that to OP. So its not really that relevant. And its still the best for her to move on for now. Maybe he found a job and busy over that for example. But its still not relevant to OP who hasnt heard from him in 10 days and doesnt know that. And again, I think she did more then enough effort there and that the ball is in his court. If he wanted something out of this he wouldnt let this fizzle that easily and would at least message her. 

[boltnrun]

13 minutes ago, kim42 said:

could abdolutely understand that he doesn't want to/can't travel when he's unemployed, it would be nice to tell me though.

But for many men (and women!) that's embarrassing. Who wants to say "I can't afford to come visit you"? Especially a potential romantic prospect or even a work colleague? That's tantamount to admitting you are poor at managing your finances or highlighting that you haven't been able to find a job. 

Please do consider networking or social groups to expand your circle. Mr. Right could be a member of a group hoping to meet a woman exactly like you. 

[kim42]

20 minutes ago, NighttimeNightmare said:

I dunno about that, this sounds like a game with rules that both parties didn’t sign up to. As long as the communication is somewhat balanced you can’t really keep tabs like this. “I did it last time so this time I’ll fold my arms and pout.”  From what I understood of their story there seemed to be equal communication. And now it equally stopped.  She’s upset over it, and we’re assuming he’s not (which very well may be an accurate assumption, btw)

 

we know she’s interested because we are privy to this thread, she may be a lot more stoic with him.  She literally said she wouldn’t text to “not seem needy” 
 

we have no idea what it actually all looked like from his end. 
 

 

Maybe I misunderstood the events earlier on but from what i had gathered, she was already in town for reasons other than him and he drove something like 4hours, to and from, to see her.  He’s put in effort 

 

Yes, but so could she. she was also radio silent for 10 days. I just can’t wrap my mind around this one 

 

I definitely am not saying im right, I don’t know that I am.  I just know that someone not texting for 10 days doesn’t mean they aren’t interested, clearly 

 

another disclaimer: I don’t necessarily think this man is interested in her. I’m moreso worried for her moving forward with new people, that she would enact these same rigid standards and sit on her hands waiting to see which hoops men will jump through without providing them the rule book in which they’re being judged by. 
 

id be curious what would occur if she were to text this particular person “hi I haven’t heard from you, are we still on for the end of august?”  It would be good practice in being direct and clear, and she’d get an answer and can move on from this guy 
 

 

Yes, I confirm, our lunch 'date' was added long after I planned this trip.

He indeed lives in the suburbs of that city and it took him 2 hours to get there.

Thank you for sharing your perspective, I'll try to be more open with future men. I was disappointed so many times in the past that it's hard for me to open up and show clear interest, but I realize I can't stay in my shell forever.

I like the idea that you mention - to send him a clear message. As you probably can tell, I'm afraid of rejection but it would be helpful to know for sure.

[NighttimeNightmare]

22 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I think we both agreed on the end of August - he knew I was supposed to travel before. 

Are you able, at all, to sit with the idea that perhaps he thinks you’re busy on your trip and that’s why he isn’t contacting you?

it may not be truth, but having the ability to entertain outcomes other than fatalistic ones is good practice 

22 minutes ago, kim42 said:

he was unemployed, but then changed his mind and decided to stay in his city and look for a job.

I’m just playing the devils advocate here, he may be incredibly stressed out and thinking “if she contacts me we can plan more, if she doesn’t then there’s my answer”

not saying it’s a truth, but it’s a possibility 

22 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I could abdolutely understand that he doesn't want to/can't travel when he's unemployed, it would be nice to tell me though.

Ok but you both were equally engaging one another, and you both equally stopped

 

can you send him a text right now? You won’t look needy, you will look like someone who is direct and seeking clarity. 
 

Dont imbed the text with emotions or a long winded thing. Keep it simple “hi [name], how are things on your end? Are we still on for the end of august?”

 

then let us know what he says. 

[kim42]

11 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I often wonder if stories would be different if we knew the other side. I had a friend from college. She had long distance boyfriend that I knew from my other friend since both of them were in the same city. Anyway, they lasted few months but she broke up because of his lack of effort since they didnt saw each other in a while and he didnt seem that eager. But I found out from my friend that the guy(her ex) literally bought the flowers and wanted to come see her and surprise her when she broke up with him over message.

So yes, we dont know the other side. But we work with what we know. Whole purpose of the Forum is to give a helpful advice to OP based on what we know and what OP can tell us. Now, some OPs can be an unreliable narrators. But we still work with what we are told. Not from what it looks like from other end. From what we know he maybe(like my friends ex) is buying flowers and wants to surprise her. But he doesnt convey any of that to OP. So its not really that relevant. And its still the best for her to move on for now. Maybe he found a job and busy over that for example. But its still not relevant to OP who hasnt heard from him in 10 days and doesnt know that. And again, I think she did more then enough effort there and that the ball is in his court. If he wanted something out of this he wouldnt let this fizzle that easily and would at least message her. 

Your last 2 sentences summarize exactly how I feel about this situation. 

[NighttimeNightmare]

21 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I'll try to be more open with future men. I was disappointed so many times in the past that it's hard for me to open up and show clear interest, but I realize I can't stay in my shell forever.

Yes, I mean there’s a balance to it. You don’t know yourself up in ways that are clearly dangerous or anything like that. But you become more opened and direct to get the clarity you need in situations in order to counteract these anxiety spirals 

22 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I like the idea that you mention - to send him a clear message. As you probably can tell, I'm afraid of rejection but it would be helpful to know for sure.

I have my own situation going on where I’ve decided to not say anything because of fear of rejection, awkwardness, etc so I totally get it. It’s easy being on the outside for me to see a clear pathway in what will get you closer to the truth and moving forward, whatever that may mean 

right now we are just guessing when in actuality you can reach out and solve a lot. And obviously we are all here for you once you do that 

[NighttimeNightmare]

32 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

And its still the best for her to move on for now.

I’ve always thought this. Both things are true at once, she needs to be more direct and not let her anxiety blind her, she catastrophizes situations and has a very fatalistic outlook.  but, she also needs to continue on with her life.  I never thought it was ok for her to wait around for him, she needs to live, if either of the two of them want to reach out to one another, cool. But in the mean time she will be meeting others and not putting her eggs in any one basket. 
 

“ If he wanted something out of this he wouldnt let this fizzle that easily and would at least message her. ”

(not sure why I can’t quote the above)

again, she is doing the exact same thing. Yes she’s on here devoting energy to it, but she didn’t reach out to him at all. For all we know he’s got anxiety issues of his own and he’s long said to himself “she hasn’t texted for 3 days. I’m over it,” and catastrophized it before she ever did, and were seeing the ramifications of it. 
 

that’s been my whole point. When people arent direct everyone is left to fill in blanks and the brain has a negative bias anyway.  She needs to contact him and get this over with