First "date" confusion

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, kim42 said:

I don't take it this far, I know people get busy so I don't expect everyone to reply quickly.

This guy has been for most of the time quick to reply to my messages.

For me hot/cold behavior is mostly when a man is not consistent in how he communicates with me - earlier this year I went for 2 dates, then I didn't hear from the guy for almost a week, and then he started to message me and ask me out again.

Or when a man is texting me, interacting with me on social media but doesn't ask me out or makes vague plans/doesn't follow up.

I have been on many dates with men like this, and I've kept meeting men that I didn't have much in common so maybe that's why I like this 'one lunch' guy, because I finally clicked with someone.

We're originally from the same country but we both moved to a different country so I feel closer to him than the local guys in a way.

Just thought I'd give you a bit more context as to why I like him.

How is keeping in touch "hot" -isn't that just sort of plain vanilla basic stuff if you want to get to know someone? 

I personally see (again just me personally) cold as going MIA in an extreme way -like intentionally ignoring someone after an argument -or asking a woman out weekly for a month then suddenly not -and responding coldly to the woman asking him out/inquiring.  You seem to place a lot of emphasis on a man simply keeping in touch with you -or a man being flaky/inconsisent as "cold" -doesn't that make your anxiety worse -this perception that just because he  texts you regularly he's "hot" in his intensity?

I would think those sorts of expectations set up anxious triggers.

[kim42]

25 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

How is keeping in touch "hot" -isn't that just sort of plain vanilla basic stuff if you want to get to know someone? 

I personally see (again just me personally) cold as going MIA in an extreme way -like intentionally ignoring someone after an argument -or asking a woman out weekly for a month then suddenly not -and responding coldly to the woman asking him out/inquiring.  You seem to place a lot of emphasis on a man simply keeping in touch with you -or a man being flaky/inconsisent as "cold" -doesn't that make your anxiety worse -this perception that just because he  texts you regularly he's "hot" in his intensity?

I would think those sorts of expectations set up anxious triggers.

It was just an example, something that happened to me a lot in the past.

Maybe it's a cultural difference, I don't know, but here in Europe people stay in touch between meets/dates - it's fairly normal over here.

 

[Wiseman2]

30 minutes ago, kim42 said:

 here in Europe people stay in touch between meets/dates - it's fairly normal over here.

And he did contact you. However it's not a cultural debate. It's the fact that you don't know each other well and of course there's no set patterns of communication yet.  Try to have confidence in yourself and not let past disappointments sabotage your future happiness.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, kim42 said:

It was just an example, something that happened to me a lot in the past.

Maybe it's a cultural difference, I don't know, but here in Europe people stay in touch between meets/dates - it's fairly normal over here.

 

Yes. I mean you going to extremes about hot cold. It’s not cultural- you had one sort of date. He suggested vaguely visiting next month. So there’s no next date.  People who plan on getting together again soon often stay in touch - whether friends or dating. You have no set plan to see him again. And the vague plan is a month away. Not soon. 

[boltnrun]

"Between dates" implies you two have discussed and are in agreement that you are in some sort of dating situation. You're not. He said he would like to get together when he visits your city in a few weeks. That is not a commitment or relationship or even the intention of exploring a potential relationship. 

If you keep setting these expectations you will continue to be disappointed. Don't demonize or idealize him yet. Give the guy a chance to want to get to know you better on a more personal level.

[kim42]

28 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes. I mean you going to extremes about hot cold. It’s not cultural- you had one sort of date. He suggested vaguely visiting next month. So there’s no next date.  People who plan on getting together again soon often stay in touch - whether friends or dating. You have no set plan to see him again. And the vague plan is a month away. Not soon. 

I never said this guy was in the hot/cold behavior category. I just mentioned that these are the men I try to avoid.

[kim42]

24 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

"Between dates" implies you two have discussed and are in agreement that you are in some sort of dating situation. You're not. He said he would like to get together when he visits your city in a few weeks. That is not a commitment or relationship or even the intention of exploring a potential relationship. 

If you keep setting these expectations you will continue to be disappointed. Don't demonize or idealize him yet. Give the guy a chance to want to get to know you better on a more personal level.

I appreciate everyone's input, but as I said before, it's not that important for me if it's a meet or a date, we don't place such an importance on the word 'date' over here.

If he visits my city, it will be to see me, he doesn't have any other connection here, he's never been here. It would be different from what I did when I spent the weekend in his city.

I know we're not in a relationship, for now he wants to plan another meet/date.

 

[rainbowsandroses]

42 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

"Between dates" implies you two have discussed and are in agreement that you are in some sort of dating situation. You're not.

Agree which was my point earlier as well.

kim, you acknowledged you're not dating, you've said it a few times.

However your mindset, thought process and responses here all indicate you DO see this as an established dating situation and you expect him to behave like a man who is and has been dating you on a regular basis would. 

48 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

People who plan on getting together again *soon* often stay in touch....

Yes and when it gets closer/sooner to the time he's scheduled to visit, hopefully he will be in touch.

There's also no rule stating that you can't get in touch kim. I'm really not understanding your mindset about this.

You expect him to because.... why?

Your last text exchange came to mutual end, therefore the ball is NOT in his court (your phrasing).  The ball isn't actually in anyone's court and you're both free to hit it.

And who knows, if you chose to reach out and say hi, he may view that as "wow, this chick is cool, she's got confidence, plays by her own rules, which speaking from experience many men love! 

Not that you should reach out for that reason, not saying that.

Only that having confidence and being comfortable in your own skin and acting from that place is very attractive to most people, men and women. 

Again I'm talking from experience and have had it happen that one simple 'reach out' from me after a period of silence (a week or so) turned everything around and we ended up dating for years!

Versus being anxious, insecure and fearful and needing him to do all the initiating as some sort of "proof" he's REALLY into you after one date.

Don't think HE hasn't considered this, welcome to dating in 2023.  Men observe women's behavior and actions just as women observe men's.

Just some things to consider as you navigate this. 

Good luck whatever path you choose.

 

 

[Jaunty]

Do you understand what people mean by "changing the goalposts" here?  What do you think about that?  

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, kim42 said:

 he wants to plan another meet/date.

Focus purely on this. It's a good thing. 

[kim42]

5 minutes ago, Jaunty said:

Do you understand what people mean by "changing the goalposts" here?  What do you think about that?  

I'm not sure what you mean.

[Batya33]

19 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I'm not sure what you mean.

The moving target comment I made above and then earlier too.

[kim42]

11 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

The moving target comment I made above and then earlier too.

I think I'm confused, can you please explain?

[Batya33]

Just now, kim42 said:

I think I'm confused, can you please explain?

It's all in the previous posts how you keep changing up what you want with this person/what you are looking for and yet your expectations seem to be that he act like he is dating you/interested in dating you.

[kim42]

6 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

It's all in the previous posts how you keep changing up what you want with this person/what you are looking for and yet your expectations seem to be that he act like he is dating you/interested in dating you.

I like him and would like to see him again but I know it's not so easy with the distance.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect we'd stay in touch, especially since he wants to meet again. We both had a good time the 'first' time, we both like each other, I'll try to be less anxious and not overanalyze and see what happens.

[boltnrun]

3 minutes ago, kim42 said:

see what happens.

That's really all you can do. You can't control whether or not he chooses to text, so why get anxious about it?

I have anxiety so I get that it's all about fear of not having control, but I'm sure your therapist has given you tools to manage those feelings.

[Batya33]

5 minutes ago, kim42 said:

I like him and would like to see him again but I know it's not so easy with the distance.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect we'd stay in touch, especially since he wants to meet again. We both had a good time the 'first' time, we both like each other, I'll try to be less anxious and not overanalyze and see what happens.

Yes it's the degree of keeping in touch that I would find unrealistic from your expectations.  He  says he wants to meet again.  He has yet to act on it.

[kim42]

1 minute ago, Batya33 said:

Yes it's the degree of keeping in touch that I would find unrealistic from your expectations.  He  says he wants to meet again.  He has yet to act on it.

Yes, I know he has yet to make firm plans/buy tickets.

I think we probably disagree on this - I don't think it's too much to text once a week. I told a few of my friends about him, and they all asked if we're still in touch after our meet/date.

[Wiseman2]

Just now, kim42 said:

 he has yet to make firm plans/buy tickets.

 they all asked if we're still in touch after our meet/date.

Well of course. First he's going to check in and see if you're still interested. Please trust your instincts and don't get caught up in catty friends musings. 

[Batya33]

25 minutes ago, kim42 said:

Yes, I know he has yet to make firm plans/buy tickets.

I think we probably disagree on this - I don't think it's too much to text once a week. I told a few of my friends about him, and they all asked if we're still in touch after our meet/date.

Sure maybe about once a week. I text casual friends about once a week. If you two start dating you should communicate your expectations because you’re long distance. Clearly communicate- in a simple and direct way. 

[rainbowsandroses]

2 hours ago, kim42 said:

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect we'd stay in touch, especially since he wants to meet again. 

Other than "expect," I agree.  It's not unrealistic to "believe" that you'd stay in touch. 

Toss the expectation out. 

What I fail to understand is why you believe it's on HIM to keep in touch, make all the effort. 

Again, your last text exchange ended naturally, it was not left open-ended that required a response from him.

It takes two people making effort to develop a dating relationship or a serious one.  Not just the man and not just the woman. 

You "liked" my previous post, and wondering if you read my edit.

4 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Only that having confidence and being comfortable in your own skin and acting from that place is very attractive to most people, men and women. 

Again I'm talking from experience and have had it happen that one simple 'reach out' from me after a period of silence (a week or so) turned everything around and we ended up dating for years!

Versus being anxious, insecure and fearful and needing him to do all the initiating as some sort of "proof" he's REALLY into you after one date.

Don't think HE hasn't considered this, welcome to dating in 2023.  Men observe women's behavior and actions just as women observe men's.

I realize these preconceived notions you have about men and women and the various "roles" of each, have been instilled in your psyche probably since you were a kid and observing your parents and the world around you.

But times have changed.  Many men in today's dating culture require women to make effort too, to initiate.

They look out for it to determine what type of woman she is.  Entitled, expecting the man to do all the "work."

I know this from a therapy "group" I attended years ago (men and women), my brothers and the men I've dated and had relationships, and my husband. 

I'm not suggesting you chase him, no please don't!

But a simple "hi, thinking of you, how've you been"?  Or something in your own style?

What have you got to lose?  Nothing.  But everything to gain if it turns out he's feeling uncertain like you and inclined to simply let it fade out. 

If he's not receptive to your light and friendly reach out, then you've got your answer.

And by the way, after I sent my ex a text saying hi with a meme after nearly two weeks NC, he responded in less than 10 minutes and was thrilled to hear from me!  

I won't get into why I had not heard from him first, it's very personal and not relevant.

We dated for a few years after that.

[catfeeder]

Kim, while I get that the hair splitting sounds nit picky and comes off as exhaustive and mean spirited, I think the gist is that you are applying dating standards to a loosely established acquaintance who has hit it off with you but is not yet part of your dating pool.

So whatever rigid dating rule book you’re still reverting to does not apply. And that’s not an admonishment— it’s looking out for you.

You have a potentially interested acquaintance in another country. You can encourage him, or you can keep score on texts and impose rules and project measures and meanings onto an otherwise blank canvas.

I’d talk myself out of the latter.

[Jaunty]

As I see it, the problem is not determining what "reasonable expectations" might be.  The problem is that you want to know what to reasonably expect.

The answer:  NOTHING.  No expectations are reasonable, because you don't have any established relationship with the guy.  No history, no patterns of communication.

You had one "maybe" date, for lunch.  You both liked it. You might see him again next month.

You mentioned that he's interested in a serious relationship.  I would venture to say that most people who are looking for that have distance parameters.  That's reasonable.  So you automatically might not be a candidate.  But he liked lunch enough to perhaps have another one.  

No "keep in touch" texts needed.

[kim42]

14 hours ago, rainbowsandroses said:

Other than "expect," I agree.  It's not unrealistic to "believe" that you'd stay in touch. 

Toss the expectation out. 

What I fail to understand is why you believe it's on HIM to keep in touch, make all the effort. 

Again, your last text exchange ended naturally, it was not left open-ended that required a response from him.

It takes two people making effort to develop a dating relationship or a serious one.  Not just the man and not just the woman. 

You "liked" my previous post, and wondering if you read my edit.

I realize these preconceived notions you have about men and women and the various "roles" of each, have been instilled in your psyche probably since you were a kid and observing your parents and the world around you.

But times have changed.  Many men in today's dating culture require women to make effort too, to initiate.

They look out for it to determine what type of woman she is.  Entitled, expecting the man to do all the "work."

I know this from a therapy "group" I attended years ago (men and women), my brothers and the men I've dated and had relationships, and my husband. 

I'm not suggesting you chase him, no please don't!

But a simple "hi, thinking of you, how've you been"?  Or something in your own style?

What have you got to lose?  Nothing.  But everything to gain if it turns out he's feeling uncertain like you and inclined to simply let it fade out. 

If he's not receptive to your light and friendly reach out, then you've got your answer.

And by the way, after I sent my ex a text saying hi with a meme after nearly two weeks NC, he responded in less than 10 minutes and was thrilled to hear from me!  

I won't get into why I had not heard from him first, it's very personal and not relevant.

We dated for a few years after that.

I didn't see your edit at first, thank you.

I admit my thinking can be a little rigid, I think I don't want to come across as needy but I see it's ok to reach out first too.

I believed we need to 'take turns' in texting but maybe that's too strict. Also, he made most of the effort before we met for lunch so now I'm maybe used him alwats reaching out. He always replies quickly to my messages.

[kim42]

17 hours ago, catfeeder said:

Kim, while I get that the hair splitting sounds nit picky and comes off as exhaustive and mean spirited, I think the gist is that you are applying dating standards to a loosely established acquaintance who has hit it off with you but is not yet part of your dating pool.

So whatever rigid dating rule book you’re still reverting to does not apply. And that’s not an admonishment— it’s looking out for you.

You have a potentially interested acquaintance in another country. You can encourage him, or you can keep score on texts and impose rules and project measures and meanings onto an otherwise blank canvas.

I’d talk myself out of the latter.

Thank you, this is very helpful.