Am I letting my boyfriend "do enough"

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, abykann said:

  the plan is for him to keep his old address legally and live in the house informally. 

So you're not really moving in together. He's just going to be a houseguest who provides some handyman services and helps with some expenses.

That makes more sense. He can walk away at any time and you can ask him to leave at any time. You really don't seem ready to live together. So having him stay there for handyman services and some expenses may be a reasonable trial to see if this is worthwhile pursuing.

If he walks away, will you pay him for the handyman services and home renovations he renders or will he walk away empty handed? 

[Batya33]

29 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

So you're not really moving in together. He's just going to be a houseguest who provides some handyman services and helps with some expenses.

That makes more sense. He can walk away at any time and you can ask him to leave at any time. You really don't seem ready to live together. So having him stay there for handyman services and some expenses may be a reasonable trial to see if this is worthwhile pursuing.

I was coming here to write similarly -OP you say you want to test out what it's like to live with him but since he won't be paying rent that will affect the whole perspective/vibe on both your parts -it will be "your home".  

[abykann]

2 hours ago, Batya33 said:

I was coming here to write similarly -OP you say you want to test out what it's like to live with him but since he won't be paying rent that will affect the whole perspective/vibe on both your parts -it will be "your home".  

He'll still be paying his portion of living expenses, and he's honestly never expressed any issue with this. I could charge him an insignificant amount of rent but I don't actually need the money from him. I also would never immediately kick him out or anything if we ended up breaking up down the road but it is my house so I would be the one keeping it.

[abykann]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

So you're not really moving in together. He's just going to be a houseguest who provides some handyman services and helps with some expenses.

Well we would be moving in together, his "rent" will just be his portion of the household expenses. Him wanting to be a "handyman" is his choice, I've never asked that of him.

I am ready to move in, just not ready to be married in 12 months and that's what happens if we make this formal.

[jul-els]

I haven’t read the thread, but you’re the breadwinner, maybe it makes him feel insecure? Don’t know, I’m just guessing here. Have you asked him why he feels this way? That’s the only way to know. The two of you have to communicate about it. 

[Batya33]

57 minutes ago, abykann said:

He'll still be paying his portion of living expenses, and he's honestly never expressed any issue with this. I could charge him an insignificant amount of rent but I don't actually need the money from him. I also would never immediately kick him out or anything if we ended up breaking up down the road but it is my house so I would be the one keeping it.

Right. It’s your house. If you were married it wouldn’t be.  To me this is part of the adjustment of being married. It’s now your house so he can’t refinance it or have real input on renovations or similar changes. 

[Batya33]

59 minutes ago, abykann said:

He'll still be paying his portion of living expenses, and he's honestly never expressed any issue with this. I could charge him an insignificant amount of rent but I don't actually need the money from him. I also would never immediately kick him out or anything if we ended up breaking up down the road but it is my house so I would be the one keeping it.

Yes. You’re not ready to marry him because of your perspective of this test. I agree that if you want him out it’s on you to help him find a new place. 

[bluecastle]

Some thoughts and questions...

Have you two talked about all this anymore since the recent Fence Incident? If so, curious how that's gone. If not, or if it's ongoing, I'd suggest something along the lines of:

At some non-tense moment, sit down, and let him know that this issue has been buzzing around in your head, still feels like a little burr in your boot, and you'd really like to come to a solution together. Then tell him that you'd like him to articulate his vision for how this stuff goes. Let him talk, listen, ask questions. Make it a little internal mantra at that point to not rebut a single point. 

Then, when you feel you full understand his perspective, tell him you'd now like to offer yours. If he cuts in, rebuts, gently let him know that, a moment ago, you just listened to everything he said and need that in return. And so on. And hopefully that allows you both to hear each other, and, assuming there's more connection at your core than static, you can come to a realistic shared perspective on this issue going forward. 

My view from the bleacher streets, the generous one: This is just a little snag, some baseline immaturity on his part. He's a young guy, likely not yet super grounded in his own path, maybe a bit jealous or edgy that you've got a house and he's living with his parents, maybe a bit insecure about the inherent "power imbalance" at the heart of your cohabitations plan, and this here is some low-grade chest pounding that's not uncommon, if never cute, in the male species.

Less generous view is you're seeing some sides of him that could blossom further and, well, that might mean he's not quite mature enough for a relationship like this, or that his deep down desire is a relationship that makes him feel more like "a man," and that might not be who you are. But seems premature to start circling around that drain, at least from what I've read here, or at least depending on how rankled you are internally by his attitude about gardening, cabinets, fixtures, and the like. 

Lastly, just want to say I like the way you're thinking this through, and feeling it through. From your earlier posts it's clear that you got dealt some rough hands. You're playing them well. 

 

[abykann]

45 minutes ago, jul-els said:

I haven’t read the thread, but you’re the breadwinner, maybe it makes him feel insecure?

He's never expressed any negative feelings about it, we make pretty much the same income. To be completely honest, the only reason I bought the house was because I had moved back in with my parents for a while and things got really bad. I have a pretty unhealthy relationship with my mother and me buying the house (instead of renting) was somehow less insulting to her. I just couldn't live with her again but I wasn't ready to get disowned. He knows all of this (and I'm aware it's an incredibly messed up situation).

[abykann]

18 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

Have you two talked about all this anymore since the recent Fence Incident? If so, curious how that's gone. If not, or if it's ongoing, I'd suggest something along the lines of:

At some non-tense moment, sit down, and let him know that this issue has been buzzing around in your head, still feels like a little burr in your boot, and you'd really like to come to a solution together. Then tell him that you'd like him to articulate his vision for how this stuff goes. Let him talk, listen, ask questions. Make it a little internal mantra at that point to not rebut a single point. 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I actually haven't been able to get ahold of him since we had this conversation...I tried calling him once but he sent me to voicemail. I had reached out to him earier this week to do exactly what you've suggested...listen and not interrupt, consider his feelings and take it all in.

The conversation quickly turned ugly and that's where things were left...when it came to me sharing my feelings about working with my father and wanting us all to do things together he kept laughing at me and his tone turned sarcastic pretty quickly. By the end of it I was just trying to move forward and ask him what a solution would look like for him and what project he would like to help with and the only responses I got were "never mind", "Anything", and when I proposed a specific upcoming project planned for mid-July he said "I already offered to help with that but you said you aren't ready to start it". When I told him I'm just trying to find a solution and move forward, he practically yelled "stop trying to move forward!" I don't even know what that means, part of me thought he might be drunk. I eventually gave up and just suggested we go to sleep and end the call. He wasn't working towards a solution and it reminded me of fights that we were having at the beginning of our relationship. I thought we'd worked on healthy communication but suddenly I felt like I was looking two years in the past.

I don't even know where we stand right now, my pride wants to leave this in his hands and let him reach out to resolve it but it's eating away at me and part of me thinks he'll never reach out.

[abykann]

54 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes. You’re not ready to marry him because of your perspective of this test.

It's not just me, he's expressed his desire to date for a long time before being married, yet he also wants to live together. I told him I expect a ring by 5 years of us dating and he seemed to think that was even too soon. He's completely on board with not wanting to be common-law married.

[bluecastle]

Hmmm. 

Well, have to say that the way he's handling this right now conjures up the image of someone at the bow of a ship waving a skull and crossbones flag, or at least a very red one. Which prompted me to skim back to your post about him from a year and change ago, at which point some much harder questions about compatibility and character start simmering. 

Whatever his motivation right now, he's really not acting like someone who wants to be in a partnership, or knows what a partnership is. Where my brain goes is two places, and none of them have anything to do with demo work or drywall.

One: Is he looking, not consciously, to get out of the relationship now that some steps are being taken toward More Serious and Forever? "Stop trying to move forward!" kind of feels like some sort of bitter truth in the pit of him seeping up and out of the volcano. 

Two: How can you feel confident about More Serious and Forever if his go-to spot in such moments is stonewalling you for the better part of a week? So the comfort you want from him, right this second, might come from exploring that question a bit, and taking a minute to sort out where the reality of him and your hopes for you two might not overlap in the way you long for it all to. 

Thing about upbringings like yours, as I doubt you need me to say, is that (a) abnormal treatment and situations become normalized and (b) you often find yourself going the extra mile to making things like this "work" as a proxy for the deeper stuff that didn't work. Not saying either of those are exactly what's happening here, but I am saying these gut checks are important. Got dealt some rough hands myself, and it took me until my late 30s/early 40s to even access that corridor of my gut, so maybe I'm just offering a few sentences that I wouldn't have minded hearing at 25 and may or may not be valid to you.

25 minutes ago, abykann said:

my pride wants to leave this in his hands and let him reach out to resolve it but it's eating away at me and part of me thinks he'll never reach out.

I don't see this as pride. I see this as you needing to live your life. You've reached out, in multiple ways, all of them seemingly very healthy. Great. Hold that level. If he can't meet it he'll have given you much more valuable information than the specifics of what labor he needs to be part of. 

[Andrina]

50 minutes ago, abykann said:

I told him I expect a ring by 5 years of us dating and he seemed to think that was even too soon.

Now that you've written this, that is a major difference in life goals. You both apparently make good money. You own a house. Why would he want to wait to become engage after knowing you a full 5 years?

You would be unwise to let this slide and hope for the best on this very major issue. Hoping things will change is foolish. Having a partner who shares life goals in the timeline that you want is essential. Perhaps if you don't want children, this issue wouldn't be as dire. But if you do want children, you don't want to hope for the best, have him in 3 years say maybe after seven years, and then you'll end up breaking up and scrambling to find another man before your window of being able to become pregnant is still open.

Good luck.

[tattoobunnie]

6 hours ago, Jibralta said:

Oh lord, how exhausting. Tell him to buy his own house and fix it up lol. 

Exactly what Jibralta says.

Sorry, but unless he's a professional contractor, trying to be the guy who swoops in after all the big stuff is done by you and your dad is so off putting and controlling.  He can spend his time researching the perfect diamond ring, home decor, and recipes.  And if you want, he can do landscaping.  Even if wants to show off what a man he is, he's coming off as a giant brat having a mild tantrum.

What if you hired a contractor?  Are you supposed to fire them?  Why is it an issue that you're dad is helping you?  Are you not allowed time with him?

I am sure he has great qualities, but tread carefully with anyone you have to walk on egg shells for.  It's your house, and you can do what you like and hire who you like, and work on it when and with whom you like.

[boltnrun]

He's showing you very clearly who he is and how he handles conflict.

I would pay very close attention.

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, abykann said:

When I told him I'm just trying to find a solution and move forward, he practically yelled "stop trying to move forward!" I don't even know what that means, part of me thought he might be drunk. 

Please reconsider the relationship,  especially this moving in arrangement. It seems foolhardy for both of you. He is in a legal conundrum just camping out there and paying you for some bills. He's really better off staying at his parents house. 

Also unless he's a licensed contractor letting people "experiment" with your property is a really bad idea. If something goes sideways you'll be stuck fixing it. 

While you trust your father with these DIY projects, you already are at war with your BF about what you want done, when you want it done and how he should do it. He should supposedly do things the way your father does. It's not his job to help you or get involved in your  DIY projects. Especially if you are assigning tasks like hanging curtains when he's not interested in that.

He's not really your employee to assign tasks to or tell him how to do them. Just don't accept the help and ask your father or hire the appropriate contractors.

The other issue is this 5 year ultimatum about a ring. He doesn't seem on board with this whatsoever. And he's foolish to indirectly pay down your mortgage (by paying for your other expenses) and improve the value of your home as a houseguest.

Unfortunately you are both doing a safety dance while trying to force fit this.  The situation is quite precarious for both of you.  Playing house is not a commitment. And renovating your place together is not a commitment.  

Perhaps he has a point that you two shouldn't move forward because there's already so much strife and incompatibilities. Especially him living in your place paying bills and fixing it up. Sometimes trying to take a lot of legal and financial shortcuts ends in more legal and financial difficulties in the long run.  In this case you won't even be any closer to any sort of relationship you want anyway.

 

 

[catfeeder]

On 6/22/2023 at 9:55 AM, abykann said:

I have two people that I love who want to help...one who's closer, more experienced, and has more time, and the other who wants to learn and be more involved. Why can't I have both?

You’ve framed this perfectly right here. I would approach BF with a request to help me solve a problem, then I’d present the above. I’d do it at a time that’s neutral rather than a time when he’s complaining.

I’d hear him out without interrupting. I’d let him hear himself speak about this from a perspective of helping to solve the problem. I’d listen without agreeing to anything but allowing him to feel heard.

i’d listen for answers to the other questions you’ve raised here about BF’s real drivers and motivations, but this would not be the time to address those. The goal isn’t to play therapist.

Once BF is done, I’d offer him 2 options. Going forward I will either notify him of all work I’ve scheduled regardless of the time falling on his work days and he’s welcome to select any or all of these opportunities to help while he learns from experienced trades or my Dad, or, the other option is for me to schedule work as I wish but never discuss it with him before or after the jobs are done to avoid the penalty of upsetting him.

He gets to choose from these options, and once he does this will no longer be an issue that I’m allowing to impact me going forward.

BF will either opt to manage his own issues about this or not, but if not, it’s best that you learn this prior to moving in together. Making his problems your own is not supporting one another, it’s enabling him to project an internal issue that doesn’t belong to you. You’re within rights to disallow an inexperienced person to experiment with your property, and if BF won’t adopt the maturity to accept that, then your relationship can’t thrive regardless of what you do, so don’t risk your future happiness by jumping down that rabbit hole.

[abykann]

So a couple people had pointed out that my bf seemed to be giving up on the relationship and this is somewhat true - we had a long talk and he apologized for the way he spoke to me, he had been out drinking with friends before our initial discussion and realized he wasn't in the right headspace to have that conversation.

The root of the problem came down to him thinking I wasn't serious about us taking the next step to live together (since it's been about half a year since he first brought it up) and as a result he began pulling back from our relationship because he was feeling hurt, basically giving up. He agreed to work with my dad on certain larger projects that he's interested in and is happy to help with other smaller projects by himself. This seems to be the way he shows affection.

This whole ordeal definitely did a number on our relationship and things are not perfect but they are moving in a better direction. I can't say for sure if we're going to make it but as of right now we are trying and are focusing on better communication since that was clearly a big issue here. Thank you for everyone's thoughts, input and suggestions!

[Batya33]

Please don't let him use I was drunk as an excuse - like if I'm hangry or tired I know as a mature, responsible adult not to have serious conversations with my husband.  I knew this morning not to send him an email expressing my frustration at letting our son stay up till 2am.  Because I wasn't in the right headspace to think clearly -early morning/tired.  That's really basic stuff.  It's not about some lofty goal of "better communication."  It's simple - if he chooses to get drunk he chooses the consequences -meaning it's not the right time to have a cogent or clear conversation.  If he wants to do X he needs to express that to you directly and reasonably. 

He's not a dog or an infant you have to figure out "how he shows affection" - on your end use I statements.  "I don't feel comfortable accommodating your desire to take over this house project.  You like to do the project and you feel good about yourself and like you are contributing.  I respect that and I would appreciate if you'd accommodate me as well -this time I prefer that my father do it."

I'd limit the tiptoeing around him and the analyzing and assuming "well this is "the" way he shows affection so I'd better accommodate it!" Reasonably and reasonably mature people are flexible and want to show affection in the way and in the timing/context that works for their partner too.  And if they feel it is not working they don't sulk or withdraw-they speak.

Don't go for perfection.  If you have core shaking doubts about whether you are going to make it leave him out of your house related decisions and table the living together thing until you feel on solid ground about your future with him.  

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, abykann said:

 him thinking I wasn't serious about us taking the next step to live together since it's been about half a year since he first brought it up 

Unfortunately you don't seem ready to live together. You want a ring and he doesn't want that. You're using all kinds of maneuvers to circumvent the common law situation in your jurisdiction. 

The situation is simply too precarious for both of you with all the legal deception. It's also precarious because he has no legal rights even as a tenant. So it's understandable that he believes you're not taking anything seriously.

You seem to be ok with collecting money for bills and accepting help on your DIY projects, but you're in a tough situation.

If you let him move in legitimately you risk your assets becoming common law property, if you attempt to circumvent the laws with deception about him living there it's not good for either of you.