Mess - yes I made it

[Ade72]

Ok so goodness knows why I am writing this but I suppose I need to get it off my chest.

I am a 50 year old male, married for 17 years, been with wife for 21 years.

I started feeling that the ‘spark’ had gone in the marriage about 6 months ago, I told my wife and I said I love her but not in love with her.

Separation was my choice as i kept thinking i wanted to see other people/the spark had gone. I saw it that my wife and i seemed to be growing apart.

My wife has 3 older children, all have given us beautiful grandchildren, who i love dearly. The separation came as a huge disappointment to my step kids - they are coming around now but its still so sad n difficult. There was a time where they said  it was too soon for me to see grandkids.

Seems a little better now, i have been renting a room in a shared house with colleagues, its ok but not home.

I have dated a few ladies, and my wife joined a site (i know as i saw her on there, awkward) and she went out with a guy for company, nothing romantic apparently.

Now to the crunch, my wife is amazing in every way, i have zero bad words about her, i still want to be friends, i started dating an amazing and beautiful kind lady in January and things ran fast, we talked about me moving to her (Wales)  but in my mind i have had too much change in a short time, i need to be close to my step kids, grandkids etc. and see my wife as friend from time to time.

To add context my wife works at same company as me, at another warehouse, lots of people dont know we have split.

We had a holiday booked before we split, in June -  the lady i was seeing can’t handle the fact that i still want to go on it with my wife - we didnt fall out but we split up now as a result

I met with her this week to get some meds i left at hers, it was amazing to see her and it reminded me how much i missed her, we were both standoffish on purpose as otherwise we might have been ‘adult’ together. But the whole thing is so sad n difficult

I keep thinking, would things work with my wife, would i be able to forgive myself, also am i throwing away an amazing thing with the lady I met 

Hurting others but also hurting myself constantly

yes I told you it’s a mess, yes it’s my making, I didn’t want to be disloyal to my wife - lots of men would have just cheated 

[Wiseman2]

17 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

We had a holiday booked before we split, in June -  the lady i was seeing can’t handle the fact that i still want to go on it with my wife - we didnt fall out but we split up now as a result.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like you're ready to divorce or move on or even date. Your love life is in the doldrums, but renting a room and signing up for dating apps may not fix that.

Perhaps you have midlife crisis and felt like exploring without technically cheating. Another approach is to get to a physician for an evaluation of your physical and mental health. Get some tests done. See if there's issues with libido, depression or other things going on.

Unfortunately most new women you date are going to quickly see that you're still married and acting like a married couple. Even though you're renting a room, you still want to go on vacation and be with your wife.

Therapy could help you out. You'll need to decide if you want to reconcile or divorce.

Keep in mind your wife has started dating and may initiate a divorce, so contact an attorney for advice regarding your options in the event of divorce.

[Ade72]

@Wiseman2 Thank you for your reply, is being friends with my wife too much to ask of any potential new partner? My wife is amazing but I don’t feel that spark anymore 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

@Wiseman2 Thank you for your reply, is being friends with my wife too much to ask of any potential new partner? My wife is amazing but I don’t feel that spark anymore 

Going on vacation with your wife is not going to be accepted by most women you date. They will feel that you still love and need your wife and are just looking for sex that's missing from the marriage.

[Ade72]

I get that, I know the holiday thing is weird, can’t explain it to myself let alone anybody else but it’s soon and then it’s done - it won’t be happening again. 
I totally get how unusual a lot of this is. 
 

I have gone through a lot of pain and upset as a result of my decisions and of course those choices have caused ructions without my family 

[Andrina]

Wow, a spark gone for 6 months after 21 years and your first instincts aren't to pull out all the stops to try to reignite the spark with whom you say is a wonderful woman? There is marriage counseling. There is reading creative ideas to to reestablish an emotional connection. Perhaps you care, but no, you don't truly love a woman to just want to make a quick exit to boink another woman.

After so much time together, It's hard to go cold turkey as far as properly living a separate life from your estranged wife, but it's wiser to do so. It's also wiser to not date for a full year after a divorce because you are not ready to date yet. Concentrate on divorcing and building a fulfilling life solo before venturing into the dating world. You'll thank yourself later for putting in that important work first.

And if people in your family can no longer be warm and fuzzy toward you, it's because you didn't handle this situation well at all. And yes, your dating pool will be far smaller because few women, if any, will be okay with you spending time with your ex-wife as a buddy.

[Ade72]

2 minutes ago, Andrina said:

And if people in your family can no longer be warm and fuzzy toward you, it's because you didn't handle this situation well at all.

That’s difficult because I don’t think there is ever a good way to handle a situation like this, I did my best to be honest and not be unfaithful, no matter how difficult it was to face the consequences. Of course not easy for anybody but that also includes me surely? We all could say we would handle it ‘better’ but until faced with the situation itself - that’s purely hypothetical 🤔

[Ade72]

22 minutes ago, Andrina said:

After so much time together, It's hard to go cold turkey as far as properly living a separate life from your estranged wife, but it's wiser to do so. It's also wiser to not date for a full year after a divorce because you are not ready to date yet. Concentrate on divorcing and building a fulfilling life solo before venturing into the dating world. You'll thank yourself later for putting in that important work first.

This makes a lot of sense, thank you 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Ade72 said:

@Wiseman2 Thank you for your reply, is being friends with my wife too much to ask of any potential new partner? My wife is amazing but I don’t feel that spark anymore 

Yes.  And it's rather entitled of you to upend her life and expect her to want to be friends with you and spend time with you.  And I would imagine most women wouldn't sign up for  your wanting your cake and eat it too.  You don't get to reap the amazingness benefits of your wife cause you chose  to leave her.

Yes civility is fine and yes if her children want to have you see them/their kids that's up to them particularly if the grandkids are attached to you.

[Ade72]

18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes.  And it's rather entitled of you to upend her life and expect her to want to be friends with you and spend time with you.  And I would imagine most women wouldn't sign up for  your wanting your cake and eat it too.  You don't get to reap the amazingness benefits of your wife cause you chose  to leave her.

Yes civility is fine and yes if her children want to have you see them/their kids that's up to them particularly if the grandkids are attached to you.

Hi, I totally respect what you are saying but you must see the being friends and spending time with me is a two way thing, if my wife didn’t want that either I wouldn’t be able to nor would want to as that isn’t how I am.

 

’her’ children are also my children, I raised them for 20 plus years and I am grandfather to their children, so yes they are attached to me. Surely the answer isn’t to walk away and have nothing to do with any of them? It’s fine to tell me I am entitled etc but I am trying to make the best of a bad situation, couples do split, most on non amicable terms, that causes more upset and harm to all involved - that isn’t what I would like 

[Batya33]

1 minute ago, Ade72 said:

Hi, I totally respect what you are saying but you must see the being friends and spending time with me is a two way thing, if my wife didn’t want that either I wouldn’t be able to nor would want to as that isn’t how I am.

 

’her’ children are also my children, I raised them for 20 plus years and I am grandfather to their children, so yes they are attached to me. Surely the answer isn’t to walk away and have nothing to do with any of them? It’s fine to tell me I am entitled etc but I am trying to make the best of a bad situation, couples do split, most on non amicable terms, that causes more upset and harm to all involved - that isn’t what I would like 

I wrote that civility works great.  So does amicable - and if she wants to be friends and tell you about who she wishes to date/wants to date -that's what friends do, right -then that could work well but the extent to which you want to hang out with her and spend time with her is not conducive to getting involved romantically with someone else with rare exception.

Sorry I wasn't aware you'd adopted her kids! 

[Ade72]

4 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Sorry I wasn't aware you'd adopted her kids! 

Technically I didn’t adopt them but I am their stepdad so I lived with them, did all the dad things - blood doesn’t make family 

I would be totally cool if she starting dating, hey it’s got nothing to do with me, I sincerely want her to be happy

[Batya33]

12 minutes ago, Ade72 said:

Technically I didn’t adopt them but I am their stepdad so I lived with them, did all the dad things - blood doesn’t make family 

I would be totally cool if she starting dating, hey it’s got nothing to do with me, I sincerely want her to be happy

Yes and if your wife and her kids feel the same as you do - that the children are your children and the grandchildren are your grandchildren even though there are no blood ties and you didn't adopt the children- it's all good and you will continue to be invited to spend time with them and their grandkids. 

But, they don't have to for their own reasons and that might have to do with prioritizing their mother's needs, the best interests of their kids and/or prioritizing when your wife finds a man who loves her amazingness and is in love with her and her family -then they might choose to prioritize her new beau.  At least where I live I'm aware grandparents have rights to grandchildren even where there is divorce just not sure if that extends to step grandparents (no legal knowledge).

Good luck!

Edited to add -perhaps not the best comparison but I was friends with my long term ex boyfriend after we broke up after 7 years.  He wanted that too.  My boyfriend/future husband was fine with it. 

But when my ex started dating his future wife (when he told me which was likely about a month in?) -I knew and could tell this was serious.  So I made the decision to slowly fade out of his life - not ignore, not abrupt just decrease contact - of course since he was busy with his new love he didn't object and over a pretty short period of time I stopped being in contact- for his sake. As his friend I did NOT want any discomfort or awkwardness on the part of his new girlfriend or him having to explain why he was messaging with an ex girlfriend despite the platonic nature of 100% of our exchanges.  So I bowed out.  I'm glad I did.  

[Ade72]

I also know that I caused this situation, I don’t pretend my actions are correct but I am trying to fight my natural instinct which in situations like this would be to run and not face the consequences. 
 

I also really appreciate all of your replies - whatever they say - I value your opinions 

[Batya33]

Just now, Ade72 said:

I also know that I caused this situation, I don’t pretend my actions are correct but I am trying to fight my natural instinct which in situations like this would be to run and not face the consequences. 
 

I also really appreciate all of your replies - whatever they say - I value your opinions 

Oh don't "run" but I would face the consequences by accepting the consequences of far less contact with your wife and her family so she can move on - even if she is "fine" with the friendship - you left her so IMO the right thing is to create a lot of space so she can show her amazingness to someone who will appreciate it in the context of a committed romantic relationship.

[Ade72]

Some people literally wouldn’t even give their actions a second thought and would just move on but the fact that i care so much that I need to know she and the kids are ok - people do grow apart, they do split, I don’t believe it is healthy or fair for anybody to stay together for the sake of it.

I have really had issues with my decision, been to some dark places mentally and emotionally, not saying my wife hasn’t but I just need to say surely the fact that I care says something 

[Batya33]

5 hours ago, Ade72 said:

Some people literally wouldn’t even give their actions a second thought and would just move on but the fact that i care so much that I need to know she and the kids are ok - people do grow apart, they do split, I don’t believe it is healthy or fair for anybody to stay together for the sake of it.

I have really had issues with my decision, been to some dark places mentally and emotionally, not saying my wife hasn’t but I just need to say surely the fact that I care says something 

Some people do lots of things.  It's great you want to make sure she and the kids are ok.  That can be done with lots of boundaries and from a distance so that she can move on free of concerns that she's going to have to explain to a new person your regular presence in her life to the extent you describe. I'm sorry you've struggled with this - I would imagine it would be a struggle. I left more than one long term relationships with lovely people who weren't right for me.  It's so hard.

I would show you care by giving her lots of space to start her new life and show you care by letting her take the lead and her kids take the lead in what role you will play with them and the grandchildren.  

[SooSad33]

11 hours ago, Ade72 said:

Now to the crunch, my wife is amazing in every way, i have zero bad words about her, i still want to be friends, i started dating an amazing and beautiful kind lady in January and things ran fast, we talked about me moving to her (Wales)  but in my mind i have had too much change in a short time, i need to be close to my step kids, grandkids etc. and see my wife as friend from time to time.

To add context my wife works at same company as me, at another warehouse, lots of people dont know we have split.

We had a holiday booked before we split, in June -  the lady i was seeing can’t handle the fact that i still want to go on it with my wife - we didnt fall out but we split up now as a result

I met with her this week to get some meds i left at hers, it was amazing to see her and it reminded me how much i missed her, we were both standoffish on purpose as otherwise we might have been ‘adult’ together. But the whole thing is so sad n difficult

I keep thinking, would things work with my wife, would i be able to forgive myself, also am i throwing away an amazing thing with the lady I met 

See this? ~> 'Hurting others but also hurting myself constantly'.

You're far from ready to be dating again.

Inside, you know you're not totally over your 'ex' yet.  This takes time, especially when it's been long-term.  Look at your title, you admit so ( Mess- yes I made it).

You are still emotionally invested here, right?  Then back off this 'dating scene' and just work on being happy 'single' for a while. ( why rush it?  Because you feel lonely?  Don't do it this way).

Also, if you're still willing to remain involved with an ex, you're not over her.  Then again, you don't go jumping into something else, when you're still willing to go hang with an ex.  You're either done or you're not. 

I know, you've been in a relationship so long, you may fear what it's really like being on your own.  Masking your fears and inside feelings by dating so fast won't stop it.  It will resurface over & over again until you actually ride these emotions for a while and until you KNOW you no longer have those thoughts/feelings for your ex.

You've moved on too quickly, simple.

And as for this idea of being 'friends' with her. I suggest not.  This only clouds everything.  Often, we find excuses to 'hold on' somehow, when it's all wrong 😕 .  Don't put her through this or yourself.  if you're done, then be done- totally!  To drag it all on and on can be a form of torture.  So, it may be in your best interest to just give her some space.  Expect nothing and actually focus on YOU now.

Give yourself time, serious down time!  Be on your own for at least a year +.  Get yourself back to good mentally & emotionally.  But don't be so selfish as to drag someone into your turmoil.

[Tinydance]

11 hours ago, Andrina said:

Wow, a spark gone for 6 months after 21 years and your first instincts aren't to pull out all the stops to try to reignite the spark with whom you say is a wonderful woman? There is marriage counseling. There is reading creative ideas to to reestablish an emotional connection. Perhaps you care, but no, you don't truly love a woman to just want to make a quick exit to boink another woman.

After so much time together, It's hard to go cold turkey as far as properly living a separate life from your estranged wife, but it's wiser to do so. It's also wiser to not date for a full year after a divorce because you are not ready to date yet. Concentrate on divorcing and building a fulfilling life solo before venturing into the dating world. You'll thank yourself later for putting in that important work first.

And if people in your family can no longer be warm and fuzzy toward you, it's because you didn't handle this situation well at all. And yes, your dating pool will be far smaller because few women, if any, will be okay with you spending time with your ex-wife as a buddy.

I actually don't necessarily agree with what you're saying. I think he probably did know that the spark is gone. I don't think you can really reignite it if it's not there anymore and he didn't love his wife romantically anymore. I don't see how he didn't handle the situation well because he actually ended the relationship with his wife and he moved out. He wasn't actually cheating on his wife or anything. Even though this is probably hard for the children but they're actually adults now. So they need to be mature and accept it.

[Tinydance]

Well I think that you can be "friends" with your ex- wife in the sense that you can be on good terms and see her at family functions, etc. For example the children's and children's Birthdays. But if you want to date other women I don't think you can be close to your ex wife. Going on a holiday together isn't appropriate because not only would you be together 24/7 but you'd even sleep in the same bed, right? There's no reason for you to go on the holiday with your ex wife because even if it's non refundable, she could ask one of her friends or children to go with her.

As the others have said, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to date others you'll need to demote your ex wife to just a distant acquaintance. I think you really need to think about what you truly want. If you want to date others or try again with your ex wife. But you can't do both.

[Wiseman2]

18 hours ago, Ade72 said:

  the lady i was seeing can’t handle the fact that i still want to go on it with my wife -  we split up now as a result

It's fine to separate/divorce if you've grown apart and are like roommates.

However until you have your life more organized and separate, women are going to view you as high risk. 

[MissCanuck]

I wouldn't count on being friends with your ex-wife any time soon, in the true sense of the word "friend." 

Maybe someday you two will get there. Maybe not. But you're concentrating on the wrong things by asking if it would be too much for a new partner to accept. You have no idea if your ex will still want to remain your life that way, so there's no sense worrying now about a friendship that might not ever really take shape. It's all way too fresh to predict where you will both be emotionally in the next couple years. Perhaps she will meet someone new and let you fade into the background, anyway. The same goes for your step-childen. They might eventually welcome you back into their lives, or they might let you go. That will be up to them.

Work instead on putting your life back together. You've upended it and need stability again. Work on getting your own housing. Process the split and, if you haven't already done so, speak to an attorney regarding how to proceed with a divorce. Then consider dating. Most women are not going to want to get seriously involved with a man who's so recently separated and isn't on his own two feet again. 

[MissCanuck]

19 hours ago, Ade72 said:

We had a holiday booked before we split, in June -  the lady i was seeing can’t handle the fact that i still want to go on it with my wife

Your choice of wording here is revealing. 

You say that as though she somehow lacks the fortitude to accept that you want to have a vacation with your ex-wife. I don't see it that way. I see it as this lady correctly identifying that you don't have firm boundaries with your ex, and thus, you are not yet relationship material.

It's not about her "handling it" or not. It's about her realizing that you are not ready to date anyone else. 

 

[Ade72]

8 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

See this? ~> 'Hurting others but also hurting myself constantly'.

You're far from ready to be dating again.

Inside, you know you're not totally over your 'ex' yet.  This takes time, especially when it's been long-term.  Look at your title, you admit so ( Mess- yes I made it).

You are still emotionally invested here, right?  Then back off this 'dating scene' and just work on being happy 'single' for a while. ( why rush it?  Because you feel lonely?  Don't do it this way).

Also, if you're still willing to remain involved with an ex, you're not over her.  Then again, you don't go jumping into something else, when you're still willing to go hang with an ex.  You're either done or you're not. 

I know, you've been in a relationship so long, you may fear what it's really like being on your own.  Masking your fears and inside feelings by dating so fast won't stop it.  It will resurface over & over again until you actually ride these emotions for a while and until you KNOW you no longer have those thoughts/feelings for your ex.

You've moved on too quickly, simple.

And as for this idea of being 'friends' with her. I suggest not.  This only clouds everything.  Often, we find excuses to 'hold on' somehow, when it's all wrong 😕 .  Don't put her through this or yourself.  if you're done, then be done- totally!  To drag it all on and on can be a form of torture.  So, it may be in your best interest to just give her some space.  Expect nothing and actually focus on YOU now.

Give yourself time, serious down time!  Be on your own for at least a year +.  Get yourself back to good mentally & emotionally.  But don't be so selfish as to drag someone into your turmoil.

So confusing, yes she is an ex - but has been a huge part of me for the last 20 plus years. Not sure I can just not have her in my life at all, we have kids together. So many sad stories out there where kids don’t see their mum or dad due to the adults not being able to split amicably. Then the grandkids miss out too. Surely people can split amicably? - is depends on the individuals concerned of course. Not everybody is built like that though I get that.

ALL of the replies on here are amazing and incredibly insightful for me. Many have struck a chord in so many ways. Yes maybe I have entered dating too soon, I have never lived alone, yes I room with work mates but we live alone and due to shifts we are alone on our off days (they work opposite shift pattern to me).

I do need to get used to who I am, I am a very deep thinker, I have a life long medical condition and that feels like a full time job in itself sometimes. I am my own worst critic, so hard on myself it is unreal. My wife (ex) even says give yourself a break, what’s done is done…..
She also says “I don’t know why you are so hard on yourself” - I just say that I know that what I have done is hard for those around me and that I hate having hurt people.

With reference to not handling this well, I may be 50 but there is no guide book for how to navigate life, that is what makes us all different. What’s right for one situation, may not be right for another…. I am doing my best and I seriously have had very dark thoughts about taking my own life - then realising I am only making it even worse for those left behind. 
I have a friend who is a counsellor, he is very good at listening to me but as a friend he can’t give me counselling. He is always very careful not to tell me what he thinks I should do, but he is always there to listen.

Thank you everybody 

[Ade72]

1 hour ago, MissCanuck said:

It's not about her "handling it" or not. It's about her realizing that you are not ready to date anyone else. 

Totally, agree, poor choice of words on my part - she is a person with the correct moral compass, knows what she wants and is protecting her heart and herself by taking this stand. I know this holiday thing is ridiculous but I don’t know what to do/how to handle things without making things even worse