Alcohol, dating sites and WhatsApp

[Davysad]

Hello, I’ll apologise if this is a long post, but I don’t know what to do. My wife has suffered from anxiety and depression and low self worth. We have been married for over 21 years with two kids 18 and 12. Alcohol is a major issue for her, which I know is a seperate topic. She is having specialist psychotherapy.

Recently, her behaviour has changed, increased drinking and staying up till 4am clubbing before a working day. This week, on my night shift, she was awake till 4am on Monday night and again last night. She signed up to match stating “Yes- just wanted to see if anyone liked me, am feeling insecure x” I tried to chat to her to make her feel better, but was told ‘I’m fine’. This morning, I came home from work at 6am and she was already in the shower having been awake till 4am. She admitted chatting to strange men on WhatsApp and was pleasuring herself. She said she was sent rude photos, but I did not ask if she had sent any back.

I probably overreacted this morning as she was very defensive and shady. She has said she’s not been happy in our marriage for months now, says she wants to work things out. But I am not sure she does.

we live in an expensive rented house, kids don’t want to move. Neither of us can afford to move out - unless we give up this house and find two places cheaper. I want to resolve things, but she accuses me of being always annoyed and grumpy. I’ve told her, I cannot cope with the alcohol abuse and inability to seek help. I just don’t know where to turn next. I do have five more sessions with relate, but don’t know whether to push to stay together, or accept it’s the end. I admit I can be grumpy, but it’s a reaction to her behaviour, which is likely to be issues from childhood coming out. It’s the shutting me out, when she wants open and honesty from me, knowing I’m home for kids when I need to be etc.

Apologies if this has come across jumbled, but I feel totally lost, upset and taken for granted😢

[Batya33]

It takes two to resolve. Is she ready to stop her behavior where she is doing everything in her power to cheat on you plus put you and your family at risk with her alcohol abuse and contact with strangers? Doesn't sound like it. I'd contact a lawyer and start getting your finances in order. I'm really sorry.

[spinstermanquee]

Totally agree w/Batya.  Additionally, please do not allow children to decide your living situation.  As I am sure you already know, adulting involves difficult decisions that won't satisfy everyone in real life.  Your wife sounds like more than one foot is out the door as it is, please support her in that choice.  She is modeling bad behavior for your kids who will then, the longer this continues, expect that it's how relationships work.

[Kwothe28]

She is an addict. That cheats on you left and right(what do you think she does in town until morning?). There is nothing for you there, she already choosed her path. Kids are already big, one is even 18. Get a good lawyer and divorce. You would be way happier alone then in a marriage like that. 

[Coily]

Whether or not she’s have a physical affair, and I would bet that she has; this is cheating. She is also gaslighting you with her telling you that you are grumpy; while she’s out at all hours.

If she really was honest about wanting to salvage the marriage, she needs to stop the partying and WhatsApp sexting. Until she does that you need to be assuming that it’s a matter of time before she just abandons you and your children.

In addition to consulting a lawyer, keep logs of when she comes home late and if she’s drunk. Or any other shady behavior, and  get yourself tested for STDs. Consider asking her to sleep in the couch or guest room. The big thing is don’t leave the house, don’t let her get you to react as much as you can. Because at the end of the day you need to push to be the primary custodial parent of your 12 year old.

[Seraphim]

You need a lawyer. This is not a good role model for your children and not a good marriage partner. I am sorry. 

[lostandhurt]

How is clubbing till the morning hours, signing up for a dating site and exchanging nude photos with strange men help "work things out?"

This isn't your fault so stop taking the blame for her actions.  I would have kicked her to the curb as soon as I found out.

 Blaming you for her actions is classic addict/cheater behavior. Is she an alcoholic? Yes, Is she depressed? Yes, is she insecure? Yes but how does that make what she is doing okay in the least???

These are excuses and justifications, not reasons.

 The children will be fine moving to a new home so stop using them as an excuse for your inaction. Fear is what is stopping you so please try and accept it and admit it to yourself.  Once you are totally honest with yourself you can begin to figure out what needs to be done.

 I can tell you what 100% will not work.  You taking the blame and trying to fix this while she betrays you and the family with her drinking, cheating and disregard for your feelings.

 This is not fixable UNTIL she stops all of her trust destructing ways.

Lost

[Andrina]

Of course, children resist change, but for now, just concentrate on having you and your wife sleeping in separate rooms to begin emotionally separating from one another. And you can worry about moving into two separate residences once you get divorce and custody proceedings settled. Preferably a time period that doesn't interrupt your younger child's school year/changing schools, if moving to another district.

Getting custody arrangements is important, especially if she is deemed to be an unfit parent at any point. Make sure there are rules agreed upon as per dating partners not being able to spend the night until a given point of seriousness has been reached, i.e., perhaps if dating that person has lasted a year. You don't want your children exposed to random men around your children.

Sorry this has happened. Good luck in getting your children used to this new dynamic. 

[boltnrun]

I doubt the "expensive" house shields your kids from the fact their mom is out fooling around until 4:00 am. Don't make the mistake of insisting your kids have no idea what's going on. If they're even marginally intelligent they absolutely know what their mother is doing.

Please see an attorney to discuss your options. I'm not advising you to immediately file for divorce but it's smart to have solid professional advice.

A solution one couple I know did is retain the family home and they took turns staying there with the kids. So if you want to keep the kids in the family home you could try that.

But definitely consult with an attorney for advice.

I'm sorry your wife has chosen to engage in this behavior. She obviously wants to be single and date around and party. 

[Davysad]

Many thanks everyone. Reality is hard to accept, but it’s clear to see. I’ve got kids tea on the go and she’s on her way home from work. Regardless of discussions I’ve had on here, I’ll be extremely interested in how she is when she gets home.

One comment that did stick ref kids…. Yeah, they both knew mum was out as they kept asking me where she was. This is all making me think… seriously!

[MissCanuck]

5 hours ago, Davysad said:

I probably overunderreacted

Fixed that for you

[boltnrun]

One of my friends stayed in a marriage very much like what you're describing for YEARS (although her husband actually took a job out of state to facilitate his multiple affairs). She finally got up the nerve to divorce him. She is exponentially happier now. 

[catfeeder]

Big difference between obtaining legal ADVICE versus initiating a legal PLAN.

Obtaining the advice in your location gathers information about your options plus the best steps to take for each option.

From there you can make decisions when you are ready, but you'll be operating on real information rather than emotions alone.

All else is just a mess that you allow to become a bigger mess.

[Davysad]

Thank you so much everyone for your kind words. Update from here… My wife came home from work yesterday, clearly ashamed and almost in tears. She was apologetic and admitted she had made a huge mistake. I have listened to her, told her what I felt and how it would have looked in the other direction. No doubt there will be many more conversations in the coming days and I will be seeking professional advice from relate and legal advice too. Perhaps we can save this, perhaps not. Truth is, I do not know, She thinks we can, BUT… I am well and truly guarded now, especially for my children’s sake. One things for sure, this will NOT happen again under my roof!!!

[Wiseman2]

16 minutes ago, Davysad said:

 I will be seeking professional advice from relate and legal advice too. 

In addition to individual therapy and legal advice, get info and support for yourself. Clearly problem drinkers need people who'll clean up after them so they'll make many promises to keep their enablers around.

See if you can get support and information here:

https://al-anon.org/newcomers/self-quiz/adult-quiz/

[Batya33]

It's not just your roof so I'd avoid coming across that way with the whole power play.  But it is your self respect and your decision to say "this is my life and I am going to live it with you only if/I am going to not live it with you."

  And it's a step that she is remorseful but what does she intend to do so that it doesn't happen again -as used to be on the kids show Daniel Tigers Neighborhood -you don't just say sorry.  You say sorry, how can I help?  Did she do this without making it all about her?

[Davysad]

You’re right, it’s not a power trip and now I’ve said it away from personal conversations, it doesn’t need to be said again. I have told her she needs to seek help with the alcohol for this to work properly.

She was definitely remorseful and admitted she had made a terrible mistake. I did not plant the words “”’cheating’ or similar into her mouth but encouraged her to say how it looked. She used the word betrayal and that she had now removed herself from that site. What she does to make sure this doesn’t happen again will be the subject of conversations over the coming days, coupled with my next therapy session, which is next Tuesday.

[Batya33]

So what kind of help is she going to seek with alcohol and what are her first steps and when does she plan to take those first steps? Why do you need to have conversations? If she doesn't initiate her plan to insure this never happens again I'm not sure you should be the one to initiate "conversations".  Removing herself from the site is fine.  I'm sure there are many other sites/other ways for her to interact inappropriately.  What other sites is she on? Has she told you none? 

[Kwothe28]

7 minutes ago, Davysad said:

I have told her she needs to seek help with the alcohol for this to work properly.

That means exactly nothing. You can also tell her that she should stop cheating while she is at it but if she doesnt want to do it, it means nothing even if she promises. She needs to want that herself and make a concrete actions. Support groups, AA, 12 step program, everything. Same with cheating. If she isnt willing to completely change her life, stops going out until morning doing God knows what, her showing you how she removed herself from one site out of million of them, isnt going to cut it. 

Again, I am sorry but dont think that is possible with somebody like that. And that your best bet is to go separate ways. 

[boltnrun]

3 hours ago, Davysad said:

admitted she had made a terrible mistake.

So she "accidentally" downloaded the app and created a profile on a dating site?  She meant to go to the library but somehow ended up at a club until 4:00 AM?  

Those are not "mistakes", they are deliberate acts.

It's interesting how her crocodile tears affected you.  Did her crying make you feel bad?  Did you feel sorry for her while she cried?  Because that was the intended effect.

I'm really glad you're attending individual therapy.  I hope you also seek legal advice in case her ploys for sympathy were just to get you to back off so she can go back to messaging other men and hanging out at clubs.

[catfeeder]

Sounds like she embarrassed herself out in the world and came running home to Daddy. 

Unfortunately, it may not be long before she starts to rebel again. That's what children do, and alcoholics are basically stunted children.

Fingers are crossed for you that she embraces help and works it, but I'm glad to hear that you're still exploring legal and other means of help for yourself and your kids.

[Davysad]

She had said she wants help. She only went clubbing late once. Only used match one… Once too many, which I am seeking advice. 
she has said she wants to talk - so I’ll see how it goes. I will not feel bad for her tears, but I am prepared to listen, before I make my mind up (which it may well be already).

[Batya33]

8 minutes ago, Davysad said:

She had said she wants help. She only went clubbing late once. Only used match one… Once too many, which I am seeking advice. 
she has said she wants to talk - so I’ll see how it goes. I will not feel bad for her tears, but I am prepared to listen, before I make my mind up (which it may well be already).

Yes, see what words she says.  More importantly see what actions she takes.

[boltnrun]

16 minutes ago, Davysad said:

She only went clubbing late once. Only used match one

 

On 3/24/2023 at 7:36 AM, Davysad said:

Recently, her behaviour has changed, increased drinking and staying up till 4am clubbing before a working day. This week, on my night shift, she was awake till 4am on Monday night and again last night. She signed up to match stating “Yes- just wanted to see if anyone liked me, am feeling insecure x”... She admitted chatting to strange men on WhatsApp and was pleasuring herself.

These statements are contradictory.

These are not "mistakes" but deliberate actions.

I'm not trying to bust your b*lls but it seems like you're minimizing the situation after seeing her tears.

If she sincerely, truly wants the marriage and wants to stop with the destructive behaviors she will end them immediately and seek help for her alcohol addiction. Of course I hope she means it and will do whatever it takes to save the marriage.

[lostandhurt]

Remember when I told you cheaters lie?

 Like has been mentioned above, she did not make a mistake, she made a conscious effort to seek out men. It takes effort to join match, it takes effort to go out clubbing and stay out till the morning.  At any point along those time lines she could have stopped and came to you and told you how unhappy she is or what ever is driving her actions but she chose to betray you and the family.  Please remember that when she starts telling you about her terrible mistake. 

Remind her she made a choice, not a mistake.

 Lost