Is a drunken word a sober thought?

[TeeBell]

My Boyfriend has always said a drunken word is a sober thought but I disagree. Last weekend i found out that a lot of people actually feel this way. I had no idea, in my opinion what people do when they are drunk means nothing, they are a shell ran by a twisted sense of human.

Recently a good friend of mine (her husband is black and this is relevant to the story) was telling me how a mutual friend of ours got totally blacked out drunk and went to some party and picked a fight with a guy and called him the N word. He got kicked out of the party but the next day he was telling my friend and her husband what had happened and why he got kicked out. Her husband was mortified and has since decided he no longer wants to be around that person. I get that it was totally uncalled for and I'm NOT saying that being drunk is an excuse, all i think is that he was out of his mind and he would never normally say those kinds of things AT ALL. That being said, I have gotten blackout drunk in my college days and said some pretty effed up stuff and the next morning had to apologize out my bhole because i didn't mean any of it!!! Her and I got into an argument because she says I'm making an excuse for him, I'm not saying that being drunk was an excuse for him to say it, I'm saying that saying or doing things when your drunk is a byproduct of the CHOICE someone made to get to that point of drunkenness and not care about the outcome. She then asks me if its ok to cheat on someone when your drunk because you were drunk and didn't mean it. I told her its not ok but it is possible for them not to have meant it. Its their fault for getting themselves into that situation. I told her people get drunk and get into a car and kill people, does that mean that's secretly what they want to do when they are sober??? no of course not!! I just don't think that stuff people say or do when they are hammered is secretly what they truly want to do for real. I don't buy it. Heck on my Birthday a few years ago i got so toasted i told my friend that i wanted to move to Alaska and change my name... I DONT WANT TO DO ANY OF THAT, 

So please I would love to hear some thoughts and opinions from other people: Is the stuff you do/say when your drunk really a secret desire that you wont do sober because of social construct? Do you think people who drink and drive and kill someone are murderers who live amongst us too afraid to kill unless they are wasted? Is the guy who got a tattoo on his buttcheek of something stupid really wanting that all along? 

[MissCanuck]

I don't think there is any one answer to this question. 

I don't believe that for all people at all times, what they say or do when they are intoxicated is a reflection of their true feelings or thoughts. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. 

It varies too much from person to person, and by circumstance. 

[redswim30]

In this instance, I think your husband is right.    I understand what you are trying to say with a car accident example, but that's a false equivalency in this specific case. 

IMVHO, I don't think people who aren't racist would ever use the N word, even when drunk, unless at LEAST some small part of them felt that way.  Many people would never use that word EVER, no matter their condition. 

I don't think alcohol changes who we are, in terms of values, perspectives or deep feelings on subjects.  I think it loosens our lips and takes away filters we might otherwise have UP.  I also think there's a BIG difference between getting drunk and saying something you regret, versus using a racist slur.  Some people may disagree, but I think many people say ordinary things they can regret when drunk, I don't think that many people make racist slurs when they're drunk IF at least a small part of them isn't already racist.  But that's just my two.  Perhaps you don't know this mutual friend as well as you think you do.  I wouldn't want to be around this person ever again, either.  

In terms of things like car accidents when drunk, I believe that's a completely separate issue.  I don't think anyone inherently thinks or has the opinion that it's ok to kill people while driving.  That's not a belief system in the same way that a racist opinion is.  Most people don't casually think of killing someone, versus racist thoughts being a casual everyday thing to some people- which is why I said it's a false equivalency.  I understand what you are saying in terms of doing/saying something you regret, but they diverge in terms of INTENT and BELIEF.  

So in this case your husband is right.  While not 100% of the time, people don't inherently change who they are at their core just because they got drunk.  In this case,  I believe a drunken word IS a sober thought. 

 

[boltnrun]

I agree with pretty much everything @redswim30 wrote.

I would never, ever use the "n" word. No matter how much alcohol I chose to consume. I also have kissed guys I wasn't really interested in while intoxicated, but that was more along the lines of wanting attention than a secret crush on those guys. I don't get into barroom brawls or fool around with friends' boyfriends or husbands.  Because I wouldn't do that when sober. 

[TeeBell]

2 minutes ago, redswim30 said:

In this instance, I think your husband is right.    I understand what you are trying to say with a car accident example, but that's a false equivalency in this specific case. 

IMVHO, I don't think people who aren't racist would ever use the N word, even when drunk, unless at LEAST some small part of them felt that way.  Many people would never use that word EVER, no matter their condition. 

I don't think alcohol changes who we are, in terms of values, perspectives or deep feelings on subjects.  I think it loosens our lips and takes away filters we might otherwise have UP.  I also think there's a BIG difference between getting drunk and saying something you regret, versus using a racist slur.  Some people may disagree, but I think many people say ordinary things they can regret when drunk, I don't think that many people make racist slurs when they're drunk IF at least a small part of them isn't already racist.  But that's just my two.  Perhaps you don't know this mutual friend as well as you think you do.  I wouldn't want to be around this person ever again, either.  

In terms of things like car accidents when drunk, I believe that's a completely separate issue.  I don't think anyone inherently thinks or has the opinion that it's ok to kill people while driving.  That's not a belief system in the same way that a racist opinion is.  Most people don't casually think of killing someone, versus racist thoughts being a casual everyday thing to some people- which is why I said it's a false equivalency.  I understand what you are saying in terms of doing/saying something you regret, but they diverge in terms of INTENT and BELIEF.  

So in this case your husband is right.  While not 100% of the time, people don't inherently change who they are at their core just because they got drunk.  In this case,  I believe a drunken word IS a sober thought. 

 

Thank you for your insight. I do have a question though (for discussion sake). If I got wasted and called my friend a c.u.n.t because they did something (totally reasonable like take away my drink because i was too drunk) and the next day they told me i called them that. I dont believe that they are one, or would ever call them that while im sober but that term is kind of derogatory toward women. Does this mean i think less of women? If in my right mind i dont feel that this person was that word then in that instance i would say my subconsious is not a women hater or something? (this story is made up and being used only for context in a hypothetical conversation)

[TeeBell]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

I agree with pretty much everything @redswim30 wrote.

I would never, ever use the "n" word. No matter how much alcohol I chose to consume. I also have kissed guys I wasn't really interested in while intoxicated, but that was more along the lines of wanting attention than a secret crush on those guys. I don't get into barroom brawls or fool around with friends' boyfriends or husbands.  Because I wouldn't do that when sober. 

But have you ever drunken made a dumb decision such as go somewhere you shouldnt have? (i dunno a specific bar or strip club or just insert something you werent suppsosed to do nor do you actually want to do here)  Hell I even told some random person i was the head of the HOA committee in my area... I DONT EVEN LIVE IN A HOA NEIGHBORHOOD. Thats the kind of nonsense im talking about.  

[TeeBell]

4 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

. I also have kissed guys I wasn't really interested in while intoxicated, but that was more along the lines of wanting attention than a secret crush on those guys. 

Right because you wanted attention, so couldnt the same argument be made for my friend who said the n word? all he knew in his drunken stupor was that he wanted to hurt this guys feelings for some reason so he said something he knew would get him into a fight. By proxy wouldnt that mean he isnt like racist but said those things to engage in a fight????

[boltnrun]

Just now, TeeBell said:

Right because you wanted attention, so couldnt the same argument be made for my friend who said the n word? all he knew in his drunken stupor was that he wanted to hurt this guys feelings for some reason so he said something he knew would get him into a fight. By proxy wouldnt that mean he isnt like racist but said those things to engage in a fight????

Sorry, but that is a super convoluted argument IMO.

I would never say the "n" word under ANY circumstances. It isn't in my vocabulary. 

I can't speak for your friend. 

[boltnrun]

4 minutes ago, TeeBell said:

But have you ever drunken made a dumb decision such as go somewhere you shouldnt have? (i dunno a specific bar or strip club or just insert something you werent suppsosed to do nor do you actually want to do here)  Hell I even told some random person i was the head of the HOA committee in my area... I DONT EVEN LIVE IN A HOA NEIGHBORHOOD. Thats the kind of nonsense im talking about.  

I'm not sure what that has to do with "drunk self" vs. "sober self". Going somewhere unplanned doesn't speak to character unless it's a house of prostitution when you're married or something. 

[redswim30]

Just now, TeeBell said:

Thank you for your insight. I do have a question though (for discussion sake). If I got wasted and called my friend a c.u.n.t because they did something (totally reasonable like take away my drink because i was too drunk) and the next day they told me i called them that. I dont believe that they are one, or would ever call them that while im sober but that term is kind of derogatory toward women. Does this mean i think less of women? If in my right mind i dont feel that this person was that word then in that instance i would say my subconsious is not a women hater or something? (this story is made up and being used only for context in a hypothetical conversation)

While that term is offensive to some and insulting and could definitely HURT, it's still not the same thing as a racist slur, nor does it carry the same weight.  

I'll use your specific discussion example-  If you had a Black female friend - Of the two words in question- which word do you think would hurt her more and which do you think she would forgive more easily?  That's the point. 

Hurt feelings don't equal racism.  

 

[redswim30]

5 minutes ago, TeeBell said:

Right because you wanted attention, so couldnt the same argument be made for my friend who said the n word? all he knew in his drunken stupor was that he wanted to hurt this guys feelings for some reason so he said something he knew would get him into a fight. By proxy wouldnt that mean he isnt like racist but said those things to engage in a fight????

Again, that's a very false equivalency. There's plenty of words he could have used to "hurt someone's feelings" that aren't racist slurs.  So why did his brain go there?  And if your argument is "he knew it would hurt the most"- that makes him a WORSE person, not a better one.  Why would he WANT to get into a fight in the first place?  

[Andrina]

IMO, if someone has even once said something very hurtful to another because of being in a drunken state, I could forgive if that person was wise enough to never drink again. For some, that might be extreme, but for me, alcohol isn't important in my life, and has ruined countless lives, so I believe a person will have to sacrifice alcohol to be a decent person.

About the friend who doesn't want to be friends with that guy? It's his business that shouldn't concern you. He has a right to make up his own rules in life.

[TeeBell]

6 minutes ago, Andrina said:

IMO, if someone has even once said something very hurtful to another because of being in a drunken state, I could forgive if that person was wise enough to never drink again. For some, that might be extreme, but for me, alcohol isn't important in my life, and has ruined countless lives, so I believe a person will have to sacrifice alcohol to be a decent person.

About the friend who doesn't want to be friends with that guy? It's his business that shouldn't concern you. He has a right to make up his own rules in life.

Yes you are correct it is his prerogative to be friends with whoever he wants, the point of me mentioning it was an example of the topic i wanted to bring up which was drunk mind vs sober mind. I dont have anything against his choice, I wanted to better understand especially because our mutual friend frequents a place me and my friend her husband and my boyfriend go to every friday night (a local restaurant thats more like a hangout spot) so with her husband not wanting to be around mutual friend, that means we dont get to hangout on friday nights anymore which makes me sad. The whole purpose of this post was to help me better understand what her husband is going through and to just have a conversation about it in general. 

[TeeBell]

14 minutes ago, redswim30 said:

Again, that's a very false equivalency. There's plenty of words he could have used to "hurt someone's feelings" that aren't racist slurs.  So why did his brain go there?  And if your argument is "he knew it would hurt the most"- that makes him a WORSE person, not a better one.  Why would he WANT to get into a fight in the first place?  

Well I dont know how old you are or how frequently you have been in bars or situations with blackout people but it happens legit all the time. People get into fights EVERY DAY at bars because of stupid random stuff. People say dumb *** and do dumb ***. some people get happy when they are drunk and some get angry, some like my friend have a sordid past and when they get drunk look to inflict pain on other people because its an outlet. Im not saying this is ok or good or any of that im just stating facts. I still dont believe what people say when they are drunk is how they truly feel some people are just butt holes and thats how it comes out. 

[boltnrun]

My friend group has never been interested in getting "black out drunk", ever. I can't see how that could possibly be enjoyable. Regardless of age. Let's just say anyone who did that regularly wouldn't fit into our friend group. 

But I'm sure there are people who find it fun and do it regularly. To each their own, as long as they're not getting into cars and driving afterward or doing anything else criminal. 

[TeeBell]

Just now, boltnrun said:

My friend group has never been interested in getting "black out drunk", ever. I can't see how that could possibly be enjoyable. Regardless of age. Let's just say anyone who did that regularly wouldn't fit into our friend group. 

But I'm sure there are people who find it fun and do it regularly. To each their own, as long as they're not getting into cars and driving afterward or doing anything else criminal. 

My friend group doesnt either im talking past experience from college and other things that i have been exposed to in life. Not everyone can life a live free of the toxic poisin of alcohol unfortunately. 

[Wiseman2]

Alcohol can't put words in your mouth, but it certainly turns off the brain's filter.

[TeeBell]

21 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Alcohol can't put words in your mouth, but it certainly turns off the brain's filter.

I agree. Thats what I am trying to say (devils advocate) that just because someone says some really stupid dumb stuff when they are wasted doesnt mean they believe it with their heart.  

[Cherylyn]

People who are inebriated (drunk) are uninhibited, therefore, more likely to reveal what they normally wouldn't had they been sober and self-controlled. 

[boltnrun]

2 hours ago, TeeBell said:

I agree. Thats what I am trying to say (devils advocate) that just because someone says some really stupid dumb stuff when they are wasted doesnt mean they believe it with their heart.  

But alcohol won't make hateful words come out of someone's mouth if they weren't part of their vocabulary, even if just internally.  I don't consider the "n" word stupid dumb stuff.  It's hate speech, especially when used in the context you described.

[Batya33]

I have never been drunk and never taken an illegal drug.  I know both my husband and I have had to take whatever that IV med is when you have oral surgery (or a colonoscopy, ick) and we said some silly stuff when we were coming to lol.  

I believe people choose to get drunk and choose the consequences.  I hung out with many drunk people especially from my teens-mid 20s- not much after that.  I've been treated badly and in physical danger because of others' drinking and I hate it and those experiences were incredibly scary and awful.  

I don't care if a drunk person really believes what she is saying or "doesn't mean it" - if you choose to get drunk and you hurt someone in some way there's no excuse for hurting that person even though you "didnt mean it" "because you were drunk" -you chose the consequences.  

Yes, anyone who chooses can choose either to abstain or never to get drunk (yes with exceptions like someone slipping something in your drink or lying to you about what is in the glass).  I enjoyed my half glass of wine or half a beer for many years - I'm a lightweight! I also enjoyed going to wineries.

I haven't had alcohol in years but not because it's poison -I don't think it is with exceptions - because my lifestyle changed and my opportunities to drink changed.  I also don't like it enough to spend $ on it when we do go out to eat.  

[catfeeder]

You're willing to harm your relationship with this couple just to split a hair?

The offender wasn't drunk when he repeated what he said to the husband, was he?

What would be his excuse for doing stupid twice?

[Lambert]

I think it doesn't matter what state of mind a person is in, they are responsible for all their actions including words.  For me it would come down to this, do I like the person I am when I'm drunk?

I can see why if a person had a habit of being a bad drunk, they may stop drinking. 

I can also see why a person may choice to avoid a person who is a bad drunk.  A lesson I wish I learned earlier.  lol. 

 

[catfeeder]

44 minutes ago, Lambert said:

I can also see why a person may choice to avoid a person who is a bad drunk.  A lesson I wish I learned earlier.  lol. 

Just a year and a half ago I had to ditch someone who was my friend from all the way back to early childhood. It was a painful yet logical and responsible decision. It was not made out of anger in some kind of punitive way.

Drunks are dangerous. Regardless of whether they are happy as hell or turn nasty, having a drunk around puts others in a position of responsibility for preventing harm. That is a huge deal, and one wrong shift can irrevocably alter the lives of anyone around that person in an instant.

Whether a drunk blathers slurs is irrelevant to the bigger picture--they're a wildcard for which other people don't deserve exposure and risk.

[Lambert]

1 hour ago, catfeeder said:

Just a year and a half ago I had to ditch someone who was my friend from all the way back to early childhood. It was a painful yet logical and responsible decision. It was not made out of anger in some kind of punitive way.

Drunks are dangerous. Regardless of whether they are happy as hell or turn nasty, having a drunk around puts others in a position of responsibility for preventing harm. That is a huge deal, and one wrong shift can irrevocably alter the lives of anyone around that person in an instant.

Whether a drunk blathers slurs is irrelevant to the bigger picture--they're a wildcard for which other people don't deserve exposure and risk.

I hear you!  

Some people never outgrow this stuff! I tried to keep friends and still go out but not drink as much or whatever.  but ultimately I had to leave some people in my past. 

It's so gross and so disrespectful for someone to expect others to just deal with their drunk butt! And in the name of friendship, I gotta put up with it? Nope. not happening here.