Am I over reacting

[boltnrun]

18 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Sorry that you and Bolt learn just now that world doesnt always work fairly

Cute sarcasm.

There are regulations (Title IX) in place that make it illegal to sexually harass employees. At least in the US. I don't know what the regulations are in other countries. 

However, this woman is a potential employee. He is free to send her whatever messages he wants. It's up to the OP (and the woman) to decide if she's OK with that. 

[gamon]

10 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

I thought I was pretty clear but hey it doesnt hurt to repeat

I mean maybe in some other places law works diferently. But from all I know even people in California get away with sexual harassment charges routinely. Because sadly, its one thing when we talk about it on Forum and other when you get the law involved. 

Ah, I see the problem. It's not that you were unclear- it's that you're posting from the perspective of "it's all I know", which is frankly, just wrong. I will gently suggest you do some research prior to making blanket generalized statements that have no teeth to them.

Go ahead and do a search specifically on sexual harassment lawsuits in California and you'll get pages and pages.

Here's a few:

https://www.restaurantdive.com/news/del-taco-to-pay-125m-to-settle-sexual-harassment-lawsuit/591637/

https://calbizjournal.com/special-report-california-restaurants-worst-offenders-in-sexual-harassment-charges/

https://drewlewis.law/workplace-sexual-harassment-law/

https://pechmanlaw.com/california-restaurant-to-pay-175-000-to-settle-sexual-harassment-lawsuit/

[Kwothe28]

10 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

Cute sarcasm.

 

Thanks, I try. You still didnt answer me where you would find HR in a service industry. But that is OK, I would expect that you would talk out of your own position and not from the position of an actual case we are talking about.

6 minutes ago, gamon said:

Ah, I see the problem. It's not that you were unclear- it's that you're posting from the perspective of "it's all you know", which is frankly, just wrong. I will gently suggest you do some research prior to making blanket generalized statements that have no teeth to them.

"Do some research". Then links me to an article literally confirming what I am saying. 

Quote

Another ROC United study found almost 90 percent of tipped female restaurant workers experienced sexual harassment in the workplace. Many times, these women feel they must put up with sexual abuse by their customers or managers just to make sure they can take home enough money. Many women fear the repercussions of reporting unwanted sexual advances. In the Hart Research survey, about 20 percent of women said they were retaliated against for reporting sexual harassment. Some women say their managers cut or changed their hours, denied them a raise or outright fired them.

Cute try though. 

[boltnrun]

2 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

You still didnt answer me where you would find HR in a service industry

And I still don't see where the OP was asking for advice regarding a sexual harassment case or how she could contact HR. Oh yeah, that wasn't at all what she was asking. 

[Kwothe28]

1 minute ago, boltnrun said:

And I still don't see where the OP was asking for advice regarding a sexual harassment case or how she could contact HR. Oh yeah, that wasn't at all what she was asking. 

To be fair, thread did go in another direction. That still doesnt excuse you for thinking how "You would call HR if that happens to you". We were talking about service industry. Not your own job that goes by different set of rules.

[gamon]

1 hour ago, Kwothe28 said:

Owner of a restaurant is not a regular employer. Therefore he/she/whateverothergender can get away with a lot of stuff sadly. Sorry that you and Bolt learn just now that world doesnt always work fairly and that if you are at top you cant get fired from a place you literally own lol

You wrote that the owner of a restaurant can get away with whatever they want, and the world isn't fair and you can't get fired from a place you already own lol (as if sexual harassment is funny) and " people in California get away with sexual harassment charges routinely".

My posts and relevant, reliable sources clearly prove your statement to be wrong.

End of story.

[Kwothe28]

18 minutes ago, gamon said:

You wrote that the owner of a restaurant can get away with whatever they want, and the world isn't fair and you can't get fired from a place you already own lol (as if sexual harassment is funny) and " people in California get away with sexual harassment charges routinely".

 

I do love that you still try some kind of own by twisting my own words and trying gaslighting. Again keep trying, maybe one day you manage to do it. And maybe one day you manage to show the link that doesnt prove what I said exactly happens in real life. Until then, bye. I have no interest in having a dong measuring contest with anyone here. 

[MissCanuck]

5 hours ago, Kelly1988 said:

Good point! I think they were both flirting 

They were. 

It doesn't matter what industry he is in. There is zero need to ask a potential employee how she slept and if she had nice dreams. He is clearly a little enamoured with her. 

My guess is that this isn't the first time he's done something like this. He's too comfortable with it. It's likely just the first time he got caught. 

[TheRawTruth]

If it's not too late, I have a solution...

Right NOW, do nothing. Play dumb. But have your friend casually ask the girl over time, "Hey so how's it goin with that guy you met?" See what the response is. Eventually, you'll find out if it was JUST work related. But I think we ALL know he has more than a professional interest here. Nobody asks a potential employee how they slept and how their dreams were right after getting their number unless they want more.

The answer is right in front of you. But because it's not BLATANTLY inappropriate, you feel stuck. If you confront him now and don't break up with him, he's aware that your friend is giving you information so he can try to cover his tracks more, AND you'll still be wondering. This is why I say it's bad to confront a person unless the evidence you have is enough to end the relationship over. If it ISN'T, grab more. If it IS, end it now, or leave it alone. Good luck!

[Kelly1988]

This is how the text read

The night before He had just his name

david 

She replied next day 

got a last name? 
he said who’s asking? 
she replied you’re funny, I know a lot of David’s 

he replied with his last name and asked how she slept 

she replied good! kept having detailed dreams. 
he replied hope they were good ones and that was the end of conversation.

the minute I asked him about it, he said he was just being friendly and immediately hired someone else. I told him it looks very shady and I need some space to think things over. 
he says he understands how it looks but it wasn’t that way and doesn’t understand why I need space. 

[catfeeder]

7 minutes ago, Kelly1988 said:

This is how the text read

The night before He had just his name

david 

She replied next day 

got a last name? 
he said who’s asking? 
she replied you’re funny, I know a lot of David’s 

he replied with his last name and asked how she slept 

she replied good! kept having detailed dreams. 
he replied hope they were good ones and that was the end of conversation.

the minute I asked him about it, he said he was just being friendly and immediately hired someone else. I told him it looks very shady and I need some space to think things over. 
he says he understands how it looks but it wasn’t that way and doesn’t understand why I need space. 

Wasn't he curious about where the screenshot came from?

[Kelly1988]

He asked and I told him, my friend knew her and I had seen the text. 
we have been dating about 3 years, he’s always wanting to talk about getting married. I want to finish school before we make any such plans, he’s very attentive and always there when I need him so this comes a huge shock that he’s out at bars getting girls numbers. 
still in shock 

[Tinydance]

6 hours ago, Kelly1988 said:

He asked and I told him, my friend knew her and I had seen the text. 
we have been dating about 3 years, he’s always wanting to talk about getting married. I want to finish school before we make any such plans, he’s very attentive and always there when I need him so this comes a huge shock that he’s out at bars getting girls numbers. 
still in shock 

I'm obviously not actually sure what your boyfriend was thinking but it's possible he did really want to hire a bartender for his restaurant. Maybe he did find that girl cute so he asked her if she slept well. But maybe he didn't have intentions to cheat.

I think people in a relationship can still go to a bar if there's a reason for it. For example, if someone is celebrating their Birthday/engagement/buck's/hen's at a bar and you're a guest. Or just catching up with a platonic friend for a meal or a drink at a bar. I agree that if they're not single then they shouldn't be getting anyone's phone number at a bar though. 

I'm not saying that what your boyfriend did was necessarily good. But you said he actually hired someone else because he obviously knew it upset you that he messaged that girl. So in a sense you can see that he chose YOU. He didn't hire that girl because you're more important to him. He knows you didn't like what he did so he's learnt his lesson and hopefully won't do it again. You could give him another chance. If he does it again then you probably need to re-think the relationship.

[Tinydance]

Also I think that whether someone can get away with sexual harassment when they're a bar or restaurant owner probably depends on the country/state they're in and the general laws there. I live in Australia and overall Australia is a pretty law obiding country. For example, people don't bribe anyone to get favours and it's not about "who you know". For example, in some countries if someone wants to get into a university, if they know someone high up there, they could get in. But here you can only get in if you got the required grades to get in. It usually wouldn't help if you knew someone there.

We have a body called Fair Work commission and you could make an official complaint about the restaurant owner to them I think. Even though he would have the biggest say in his own restaurant but this body is still above him. The restaurant could get closes down or he could get fined. So here we usually do have ways to pursue a sexual harassment case with your boss. 

[MissCanuck]

7 hours ago, Kelly1988 said:

so this comes a huge shock that he’s out at bars getting girls numbers

You've just learned that he's this type of guy. 

As I said, I would not be suprised if he has done this before. This doesn't read as an innocent search for an employee, but he shut it down once he realized you were on to him. 

Tread cautiously with this guy moving forward. 

[Batya33]

4 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I think people in a relationship can still go to a bar if there's a reason for it. For example, if someone is celebrating their Birthday/engagement/buck's/hen's at a bar and you're a guest. Or just catching up with a platonic friend for a meal or a drink at a bar. I agree that if they're not single then they shouldn't be getting anyone's phone number at a bar though. 

I don't think there has to be any reason for going to a bar or any place -there are single people everywhere in public places. Marriage and relationships only mean you promise not to date others or look to date others.  I absolutely would get someone's number at a bar or any place if it wasn't related to dating or looking to date.  Never know if it will lead to a friendship, networking opportunity, etc. 

I don't go out in the evening anymore if I can help it given my morning schedule and my need for good sleep, and when I did go out at night, and when I traveled on business and we went out at night- once my husband and I were exclusively dating when I was out I did not behave like I was single -I did not flirt with men or behave as if I was available to date anyone.  Neither did he. Never asked him if he did- I simply trust him. 

We had one issue in the last 17 years (the issue happened in fall 2005) where he objected to me meeting a platonic male friend one on one for a drink for an hour before we all were going to meet up as a group.  So I told the friend, he understood and we cancelled the drink, he met us as a group and made sure to make it 100% clear to my future husband he had no designs on me by acting normal and social and getting to know my future husband who he was meeting for the first time. 

My husband travels all over and some of those travels involve dinners, maybe drinks before or after and he rarely goes out at night for any non-business related reason.  When he travels he'll sometimes meet colleagues separately for meals - sometimes female, sometimes male, whatever.  I have never asked about anything to do with those outings, never had any sense whatsoever that anything occurred that was an issue with our marriage.  I've never looked at his phone or computer or had any reason to. 

If he'd met this woman at the local supermarket while checking out the avocados and they realized she worked in the bartending industry it still would have been an issue to send her that sort of flirtatious, forward message because it gives the appearance of impropriety and it's inconsistent with being in a committed relationship.

It's not about going to a certain place where there are single people or people looking to hook up.  If it's specifically to hook up like maybe a strip club or the boyfriend wants to go to a singles resort or singles event/party alone -sure - that's likely inappropriate - but I didn't promise to stop having a normal social life when I started dating my future husband.  Either you trust the person or you don't.

[Kelly1988]

He hasn’t been giving me the space I asked for, he’s calling everyday. Showed up at my parents and bought them their favorite take out. 
He swears it was innocent but as much as I would love to believe that, I can’t make myself. I rather he just say yes I was flirting and I’m sorry for it. Not that I’m over reacting and it was normal to send those texts 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, Kelly1988 said:

He hasn’t been giving me the space I asked for, he’s calling everyday. Showed up at my parents and bought them their favorite take out. 
He swears it was innocent but as much as I would love to believe that, I can’t make myself. I rather he just say yes I was flirting and I’m sorry for it. Not that I’m over reacting and it was normal to send those texts 

It takes two -how do you plan now to take the space you asked for?

[Jibralta]

On 2/25/2023 at 7:07 PM, Kelly1988 said:

I need some space to think things over. 
he says he understands how it looks but it wasn’t that way and doesn’t understand why I need space. 

11 hours ago, Kelly1988 said:

He hasn’t been giving me the space I asked for, he’s calling everyday.

He should give you space.... But how much space are you planning to take? It's been over a week. Are you planning to make a decision any time soon? Or is this just going to be a long, drawn-out, repetitive cycle of you demanding time, him ignoring what you want, and you complaining about it but never actually taking action (rinse, repeat)?

My personal advice: Put an end to this thing with him and get on with your life.

[Andrina]

On 2/25/2023 at 7:07 PM, Kelly1988 said:

This is how the text read

The night before He had just his name

david 

She replied next day 

got a last name? 
he said who’s asking? 
she replied you’re funny, I know a lot of David’s 

he replied with his last name and asked how she slept 

she replied good! kept having detailed dreams. 
he replied hope they were good ones and that was the end of conversation.

 

If he doesn't know how to behave as a good partner now, it's naive to hope he'd miraculously become a person with common sense and good ethics in the future. As Maya Angelou said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."

Partners should be accountable to one another. So I believe he should've mentioned who he was going to a bar with, to you.

And as for this, perhaps if he'd overheard a woman saying she was looking for a job or whatever, what would've made sense is that he give her the restaurants name and the web address if she was to apply there, or tell her she had to show up in person to fill out the application, whatever their policy. To me, there is no reason to give random people your phone number.

And just put yourself in his shoes. If you were a manager and this situation was you chatting with a possible guy candidate for your work, would you ever in a million years be using the words your bf used? 

IMO, guardian angels have a way of letting you know what you  need to know, to get you to see the person you're really dealing with. Secrets have a way of coming out for your own good. If you choose to ignore all that, good luck to you.

[TacticalLinguine]

On 2/23/2023 at 8:59 PM, Kwothe28 said:

Thanks, I try. You still didnt answer me where you would find HR in a service industry. But that is OK, I would expect that you would talk out of your own position and not from the position of an actual case we are talking about.

"Do some research". Then links me to an article literally confirming what I am saying. 

Cute try though. 

Goodness sake. You are so unpleasant. Take a chill pill, stop getting your knickers in a twist and learn some grace, my friend.

[Kwothe28]

5 minutes ago, TacticalLinguine said:

Goodness sake. You are so unpleasant. Take a chill pill, stop getting your knickers in a twist and learn some grace, my friend.

Gosh, so sorry. I guess not everyone can drink their tea and be passive agressive, somebody has to be more direct.

If you dont like my posts, feel free to skip it.

Sincerely, Kwothe.

[Wiseman2]

On 3/4/2023 at 10:30 PM, Kelly1988 said:

He hasn’t been giving me the space I asked for, he’s calling everyday. Showed up at my parents and bought them their favorite take out. 

Yes take all the time and space you need to reflect and reconsider.

At some level you know he was collecting women's numbers and only came up with the 'work' excuse when he got caught red-handed. He's acting quite guilty by bribing/ buttering up your family.  Stand firm and clear your mind without his manipulation. Do your parents know what he did?

[TacticalLinguine]

2 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

Gosh, so sorry. I guess not everyone can drink their tea and be passive agressive, somebody has to be more direct.

If you dont like my posts, feel free to skip it.

Sincerely, Kwothe.

Petty sarcasm and immature comments doesn't equal being direct. 

Thank you for the advice, I will skip the posts I want. 


Hugs and kisses, 

Linguine

[gamon]

On 3/6/2023 at 4:17 AM, TacticalLinguine said:

Petty sarcasm and immature comments doesn't equal being direct. 

I thought the same exact thing. That's usually when I make the choice not to engage particular posters because they don't argue the points of the debate and regress to taking cheap shots. At that point they're simply not worth the effort.