I fear that no woman will truly like me and any woman I date will only be settling for me.

[Jibralta]

5 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I brought them up because they are both incredibly popular with women. I think 20% of British women own a copy of 50 Shades. The stories aren't real, but their popularity is.

20% of 100% is a minority, not incredibly popular.

[ProfessorSunflower]

1 hour ago, mylolita said:

I am gonna be terrible and say, I married the macho alpha male yes I did!

 

When I first met my husband, he has a chipped tooth, because he had just been in a fight and won it. He was a nearly professional boxer. Had an 8 pack. Grew up in a really rough area of Britain, knows how to handle himself, is street smart.

 

Only a couple of nights ago he came in VERY late from playing pool at the pub. I was so worried. He told me a guy had said he had to get off the table and give him his pool queue or he was gonna smash his face in. My husband said he wasn’t from where we are living, didn’t recognise him. He said he just threw him over the pool table. Guy hit his head; was unconscious. Police were called. The guys mates, think there were about 3 of them just backed right off and left. The landlord backed my husband up and said he had been starting trouble all night.

 

When I was younger, there was a guy in school who was very weird and obsessed with me. One day we were in the hall corridor, no one there. The guy pinned me to the wall, heavy breathed, staring nose to nose right into my eyes. I could see his hand moving towards my skirt. He didn’t do anything. His other hand was around my throat.

 

A year later I met and started dating my husband. We talk as we do and I mentioned it once. He was quite silent, just asked me lots of questions, what his name was, exactly what happened. A couple of months later a friend of mine told me this guy had LEFT TOWN because my husand (then boyfriend) had seen this guy at the petrol station, took him round the back and not even touched him. He pinned him up against the wall, put his hand round his throat. Said, how do you like it now? He told him to never even look at me again.

 

Okay, some people might be mortified at this. I kinda was but, did it make me hot under the collar? You bet. He always, always, has my back. In every way. He is exceptionally protective. He’s not this huge guy, he’s 5 foot 8inches. He’s just fast and strong,  naturally stocky and athletic even when overweight. Doesn’t have an 8 pack anymore, he’s 42 next month. We meet in the mind, that’s the thing. But his feisty principals of sticking up for himself and others is something we do share. I am not saying he is some unthinking brute. But, still. He’s a mans man. Doesn’t take any. 
 

All I am saying is, is it attractive? When a man can physically handle himself and doesnt let anyone push him around, intimate him, or you? Yes. I think on some biological and instinctive level, some women can relate to that protective nature as being very attractive.
 

I once was working at a little cafe. My now husband walks in to pick me up, he says he’s gonna wait in the car. A friend I worked with who was much older; married with children at that time (I was only 21) turned to me, without knowing him and said, “He’ll always look after you.” Only 14 years later do I know what she meant. He has provided for me financially, as a loving and attentive father. He has defended me, protected me. He has loved me and always been faithful. If that is not the definition of a man, I don’t know what is. 
 

Does your soul mate need rippling muscles? No. You have to meet mind to mind, heart to heart? Yes. Do you have to be physically attracted to them? Of course. You have to have a mash up of all the things that mean something too you. You can’t just have appearance alone, intellect alone. 
 

x

Your husband sounds like my exact opposite. So should I just give up?

[ProfessorSunflower]

12 minutes ago, Kwothe28 said:

But over which Christian Bale they gawk? 😆

Anyway, you are worrying about very fictional scenarios. Where your future gf/bride would have to come within vicinity of high profile celebrity, that high profile celebrity actually likes her and that they have a chance of something happening. Its probably one in a couple of million chance of that. You literally have more chance to be hit by a bus than for that to happen.

Also, gawking is not the same thing as actually doing something. You can gawk about some woman in a magazine. Heck, you can gawk about attractive coworker. Kinda innapropriate if you have somebody, but its not cheating. Actually crossing the line requires way more than just gawking. 

Your "hypothesis" comes from your belief how its not right to see somebody else as attractive. But, again, do you seriously believe you will be the most attractive thing your partner would ever encounter? That nobody else would compare? Because its a bit naive thinking. I know there is a saying about "having your eyes just for your partner" but you shouldnt expect your partner to think that nobody else is attractive. Because ofcourse somebody else is. Is more attractive, has more money, more power, under any metric there is probably somebody way better than you. However, you equate that with how partner would freely cheat. Some would, I cant argue that. However, to say how they all would just because they find somebody attractive to some metric, its way too extreme. And I am sorry, but with that kind of thinking you will not find some happiness out there when it comes to relationships.

People here are responding to things I did not actually say.

I'm not saying I literally expect her to cheat with a celebrity, nor did I ever say I fear my partnernwill never notice somebody else. I am saying that I'm worried she will only see me as the stable compromise for what she really wants.

Not only am I not physically masculine, but my personality is virtually the opposite of masculine bad boys. I'm not aggressive or dangerous. It seems to me that men who are attractive to women have these traits - again, the opposite of me. Thisncreates insecurity in me, and the reassurance I always get is "Women find aggressive men aexy but as they get older they realize they make bad partners. So they settle for nice guys like you." I don't want to be with somebody who feels that way about me!

Erotica, unlike porn, is about personality and psychology. Every erotic story I can find intended for women involves having sex with an aggressive, dangerous man, often cheating on her stable but boring husband. 

A piece in Psychology Today said women who are married to nice men often feel they're in a sexual coma not in spite but because of their partner's traits. I don't want to be in that kind of relationship!

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I don't want to be in that kind of relationship!

Unfortunately, you don't want to be in any relationship.

All this misinformation, incels propaganda and so forth you're buying into makes it so.

[mylolita]

14 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

Your husband sounds like my exact opposite. So should I just give up?

Of course not. People are multi faceted. He is an antique and art dealer but his origins are working class, he is still working class. In England, you can never escape your class really.

 

He is artistic and has a flare for interiors. Hardly masculine traits. All the gay men he knows in the art world always joke he must be gay. He is very romantic but not in the text book way. Yes he used to be a boxer and he God knows he’s been in too many fights to mention. He’s sensitive in some ways also. He is very generous and very, very non-jealous, and I realise people

normally put good with fists and think it must be a jealousy fuelled thing. I have never had one issue with him being jealous over anything, all the 14 years I’ve known him.

 

People fall in love for a whole mixture of reasons. That side of him is a small part of him.

 

Do not give up! That is what we are all urging you on here for! Everyone is so unique, you have to cultivate your own unique traits!

 

x

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

'm unsure how many times I have to make this point; it's not just about finding other men attractive. It's also about thinking they have more interesting and exciting personalities. Every example I've heard, both real and fictional, of a woman with a man like me involves her with a feeling of conflict; her chemistry is more drawn to the dangerous and risky man but her desire for stability tells her the nice guy is better. Thus, she likes the nice guy less than vice versa.

But it's not nice to act in an insecure way -subject others to insecurities.  It's not nice to act in a passive way.  I don't think healthy relationships involving marriage or a marital like commitment involve the sort of grass is greener analysis you're pressing here.  People make choices to be with their partner.  The marriage vows presume there will be temptation. We're human. Being tempted doesn't mean you're settling.  

I love that my husband keeps me on my toes in a number of ways and he treats me with respect and with love.  He's super sharp, well read, up on current events and old TV series lol.  He motivates me to continue to be well read and up on current events.  He's not dangerous or risky.  Who wants that in a healthy relationship? 

But I'm more risk averse than him and he shows me how to stretch my comfort zone.  

Have I ever met people who have more exciting and interesting personalities? I'm sure if I thought about it, yes! It means nothing as far as my love and commitment to my husband.  It doesn't ever make me think I "settled".  Why would it?  You're connecting the dots and making assumptions in a way that makes no sense.  Why -you seem like a smart guy -are you sure you're up for being vulnerable in a healthy loving relationship?

(As far as the lottery I said I would keep working -that might mean purely volunteer or perhaps doing something a bit different that wasn't as stressful as what I do now, although I do love it mostly)

[ProfessorSunflower]

7 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

But it's not nice to act in an insecure way -subject others to insecurities.  It's not nice to act in a passive way.  I don't think healthy relationships involving marriage or a marital like commitment involve the sort of grass is greener analysis you're pressing here.  People make choices to be with their partner.  The marriage vows presume there will be temptation. We're human. Being tempted doesn't mean you're settling.  

It's not just about temptation. Its about them liking me less than I do them.

[ProfessorSunflower]

9 minutes ago, mylolita said:

Of course not. People are multi faceted. He is an antique and art dealer but his origins are working class, he is still working class. In England, you can never escape your class really.

 

He is artistic and has a flare for interiors. Hardly masculine traits. All the gay men he knows in the art world always joke he must be gay. He is very romantic but not in the text book way. Yes he used to be a boxer and he God knows he’s been in too many fights to mention. He’s sensitive in some ways also. He is very generous and very, very non-jealous, and I realise people

normally put good with fists and think it must be a jealousy fuelled thing. I have never had one issue with him being jealous over anything, all the 14 years I’ve known him.

 

People fall in love for a whole mixture of reasons. That side of him is a small part of him.

 

Do not give up! That is what we are all urging you on here for! Everyone is so unique, you have to cultivate your own unique traits!

 

x

Non-jealous? He almost attacked the man you described. You said his violence turned you on.

[dias]

38 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

 that women stick with less attractive men because they know they can't seduce somebody like Bale. 

This applies to you too, you wouldn't date the girl next door if you could date Megan Fox. Life is unfair, take it with God.

 

42 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

That's the reassurance I'm supposed to be happy with? 

Yes

[Batya33]

Just now, ProfessorSunflower said:

It's not just about temptation. Its about them liking me less than I do them.

Yes, don't commit to a woman where there is not mutual love and admiration and respect.  That has nothing to do with your so called statistics, studies or "reasoning" as to why that would be in particular an issue for you.

[mylolita]

1 minute ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

Non-jealous? He almost attacked the man you described. You said his violence turned you on.

It wasn’t due to jealousy! He wasn’t jealous of the guy. He didn’t think it was right that another creep would squeeze my throat alone in a corridor and gave him a taste of his own medicine.

 

Justice in my opinion 🥲

 

He’s never been jealous of me or anything that I know of. 
 

Sorry, I side track. What I am trying to maybe get across is, the brute can be the artist; the geek can be the courageous one. Some people who are highly attractive suffer with confidence issues. Some people who are good looking wish they were smarter. Some people who aren’t good looking are highly intelligent and make millions or are amazing parents. 
 

Maybe what we should be asking you is - what type of woman are you exactly after? People often tend to “date within their own pool” so, what makes you think a girl you might take on a date won’t be feeling the exact same way? Thinking, I hope he’s not just gonna settle for me. I hope I’m pretty enough for him. What makes you think girls don’t think these thoughts? You might end up meeting another woman who knows exactly what you mean and can relate too you and connect with you on many issues deeply.

 

x

[boltnrun]

You're embracing unhappiness to prove a point. To whom, I have no idea.

[Batya33]

How would you like it if a woman you met and liked and dated, showed to her you cared, treated her with respect and compassion said to you "this is all so great and I can't shake the feeling that based on all the studies I've read and relationship statistics you're going to realize you are just settling for me because I'm not a ten and I don't treat you badly" -wouldn't you find that a really negative view on the world and kind of offensive to you, a person who only showed her all the best of you and showed you wanted to be with her?

[Tinydance]

43 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I'm not happy at all. I wouldn't be here if I were.

The comments here actually say, almost word for word, that women stick with less attractive men because they know they can't seduce somebody like Bale. That's the reassurance I'm supposed to be happy with? 

I'm pretty sure nobody here actually said that! I think the way you're thinking isn't really based in reality. You're saying that just because women can't have a hot celebrity guy, they're just settling for their boyfriend/husband? That is not true at all! Of course it's human nature to appreciate hot people but the majority of people are just average. Everyone can find someone and people aren't just settling just because they didn't get Brad Pitt or Scarlett Johansson.

I think you also need to be careful in what books you're trying to analyse to prove your theories about women. There are certain novels which are very unrealistic and don't portray women (or men) or attitudes towards dating in a particularly truthful way. 50 Shades of Grey falls under that category in my opinion.

Also there are some older novels where yes women might be attracted to really masculine men because during that historical period there were very strong gender roles. E.g. Jane Austen novels, back then upper and middle class women didn't work, so they needed a man that could provide financially and was well off or had a good job. These days women get an education and work, so they don't necessarily need a macho alpha guy because women can stand on their own two feet as well.

Personally I don't like sport or sports people so that's at least one example of a woman for you who isn't into rugby players.

[Batya33]

Also marriage and committed relationship always require a leap of faith - nothing is guaranteed.  You can choose wisely for less of a leap of faith but it's why very normal people who are totally in love still get "jitters" about getting married!  I love being in control -not the best trait for sure -and to get married to my husband I had to: (1) decide to get back together with my ex fiancee; (2) be prepared to relocate hundreds of miles away from where I'd lived and grown up for 40 years; (3) date long distance and be pregnant long distance; (4) be unemployed for the first time in over 2 decades if I wanted my dream of being a full time parent; (5) do a high risk pregnancy. So much was out of control, so much in such a short time. 

Had I focused on the negatives, on statistics and studies (oh and they were there galore if I just glanced at google - marrying an only child who'd never been married, long distance relationships, getting back together after a cancelled wedding years earlier, etc. - but I chose to focus on my individual circumstances, on my love and commitment that was returned by this one person, on our shared values, laughter, passion, respect. 

Obviously certain statistics matter (yes I just wore a mask to get take out from a fast food place) but you're running haywire with negligible "studies" and creating a parade of horribles for your specific situation.  I agree with others who said you're simply not ready to do what it takes to commit -to take those risks, to make yourself vulnerable.  You can change that but not by spouting studies and looking for validation.  

[Wiseman2]

Have you seen "Cast Away"? There's Tom Hanks, often a romantic lead, with a sort of guy-next-door dadbod. However like you, he is so isolated in his situation, that the only being who relates to him is a mental friend, of his creating, a volleyball called "Wilson". That's what this Incels confirmation bias is doing to  you.

 

[mylolita]

Also OP,

 

People tend to date within their own “pools”. You normally end up with someone similar to yourself and on the same kind of attractive spectrum. 
 

My husband would be classed as alpha. People have said I am like that too. I would never label myself like that(!) but, you tend to swing towards what you like. I don’t find submissive men attractive. I like a man who takes control. I don’t like effeminate looking men. What does it matter? There are millions of women who love so many other traits. 
 

If you said you were walkin’ into a celebrity hot spot and you were worried all these beautiful models were going to reject you or not stay maybe, just maybe, you might have a point. But the likelihood is, the average woman you will meet, and date, isn’t going to be a model. You’ll be just fine!

 

You have to have some self confidence here.

 

God, even Elvis was cheated on. Maybe she was thinking she had settled too soon too?

 

Not everything is doomed or written in the stars because of how you look.

 

x

 

[greendots]

2 hours ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

I'm not happy at all. I wouldn't be here if I were.

The comments here actually say, almost word for word, that women stick with less attractive men because they know they can't seduce somebody like Bale. That's the reassurance I'm supposed to be happy with? 

We can continue to debate this till the cows come home. But has it changed your situation? I'm betting not.

That's why I asked earlier what your endgame was. If you want to debate, that's fine. But if you actually want your circumstances to change, start by changing your mindset.

Get out there, join groups, volunteer, update your style, etc — all of which have high chances of making a positive difference in your life. 

The choice is yours. 🙂

BTW, nice intellectual men who have a positive mindset are very attractive.

 

 

[mylolita]

I also agree with others - not all women want the macho alpha hunk. As you can see here!

 

There is someone out there for everyone, and a match made in heaven as well. Someone who will truly want you for you. I think you are being very hard on yourself!

 

When you are in the right relationship with the right person you just are. You would be insane to trade that in. I have been propositioned before by guys who had more money than my husband, bigger pecs. Whatever! Even before we had children. No. Way. We adore each other. Why would I ever leave my best friend on this whole planet? My “soul mate” and my everything, corny as it sounds. 
 

Most people don’t operate like that, looking for something better all the time, if they truly love their partners.

 

x

 

 

 

x

[Tinydance]

I think you haven't told us anything about this woman you're actually dating though. She obviously likes you so there is your proof in the pudding that you're likeable! 

I can't believe you asked if you should end it just because of all that supposed research you found online about women and in trash novels like 50 Shades of Grey. This woman actually wants to date you! You have THAT evidence literally right in front of you. But you choose to ignore it and continue to try to find some kind of proof that women wouldn't date you or would only settle for you.

Also my advice would actually to make more female friends and start spending time with more real women. You aren't going to really learn anything from fictional women because they don't exist. By knowing real women I think you'll find that they're not just all the same and have exactly the same tastes in men.

 

[mylolita]

3 hours ago, Jibralta said:

20% of 100% is a minority, not incredibly popular.

My heart stopped in fear when I saw it on the bedside of my 70 year old mother in law 🥲🤣

[ProfessorSunflower]

3 hours ago, Tinydance said:

I think you haven't told us anything about this woman you're actually dating though. She obviously likes you so there is your proof in the pudding that you're likeable! 

I can't believe you asked if you should end it just because of all that supposed research you found online about women and in trash novels like 50 Shades of Grey. This woman actually wants to date you! You have THAT evidence literally right in front of you. But you choose to ignore it and continue to try to find some kind of proof that women wouldn't date you or would only settle for you.

Also my advice would actually to make more female friends and start spending time with more real women. You aren't going to really learn anything from fictional women because they don't exist. By knowing real women I think you'll find that they're not just all the same and have exactly the same tastes in men.

 

We were never officially dating. I told her how I felt and she was taken aback. She's said she wants to just be friends. So no, I haven't got that evidence.

I cited an example of a conversation with female friends in the first post.

[Tinydance]

12 minutes ago, ProfessorSunflower said:

We were never officially dating. I told her how I felt and she was taken aback. She's said she wants to just be friends. So no, I haven't got that evidence.

I cited an example of a conversation with female friends in the first post.

I thought you said you were seeing someone?

[boltnrun]

1 hour ago, Tinydance said:

I thought you said you were seeing someone?

This was in his OP:

I have been casually going out with a woman. I am not sure if she likes me romantically but I do and think the feelings may be mutual. Ever since I heard what that other woman said yesterday, all of my insecurities returned. Should I just give on this woman I am going out with?

 

[Tinydance]

24 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

This was in his OP:

I have been casually going out with a woman. I am not sure if she likes me romantically but I do and think the feelings may be mutual. Ever since I heard what that other woman said yesterday, all of my insecurities returned. Should I just give on this woman I am going out with?

 

Oh, I see. I thought he meant "casually going out" as in dating. I think I misunderstood...