Help! I don't understand the concept of marriage!

[smackie9]

Stable and comfortable yes, boring no. Ring or not, that's what matters...being with the right person for the long haul.

[LaHermes]

Just now, smackie9 said:

Stable and comfortable yes

Yes Smackie.  Yet, as I may have remarked before, the number of people who THINK and believe that the stable and comfortable person is boring.  And they actually say it too!  "Tim is a nice guy, but he is so boring!" ("Tim" is a decent, hardworking, stable, sane who has had a steady upbringing, for example).

But no, the individual in with a chance is the love bomber, the delinquent, the half insane, the "exciting" one, the latent abuser.

It makes one despair. 

[smackie9]

I think that comes from low self esteem/no self worth. Picking bad over good. They need that overbearing attention to feel desired. 

[maritalbliss86]

Just saw this article comparing cohabitation and marriage... it really is important to know the differences and educate yourself.  

"Compared to children of married parents, those with cohabiting parents are more likely to experience the breakup of their families, be exposed to ‘complex’ family forms, live in poverty, suffer abuse, and have negative psychological and educational outcomes,” according to the Institute for Family Studies (IFS).

Two-thirds (2/3) of cohabiting parents split up before their child reaches age 12, while only a quarter (1/4) of married parents divorce, according to an April 2017 Brookings Institution report." click here

"Over 40 percent of married mothers and fathers have a bachelor’s degree, according to a March 2016 U.S. Census Current Population Survey. Only 8 to 10 percent of cohabiting mothers and fathers with one or more biological child have a bachelor’s degree.

Children living with their biological cohabiting parents are also more than four times as likely to be physically, sexually or emotionally abused as kids living with their married parents, according to the Fourth National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect."  from here

 

[maritalbliss86]

And more statistics

"Children in cohabiting families face greater risks of depression, drug use and failed matriculation than children living in a home with married parents, according to the National Marriage Project.

Married parents are on average older, better educated, and earn more money than their unmarried cohabiting peers. Some scholars have suggested awarding tax bonuses of upwards of $4,000 per child in order to incentivize people to marry before having children."

[LaHermes]

Fully agree Smackie.  And it is a very worrying trend, and an increasing one. Even when they know and discover that they have got a bad apple, they still prefer the delinquent. 

And even after getting out of the high-octane technicolour enmeshment with the exciting bad apple, those people will admit that they find other men/women so boring by comparison. 

 

[boltnrun]

3 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Just saw this article comparing cohabitation and marriage... it really is important to know the differences and educate yourself.  

"Compared to children of married parents, those with cohabiting parents are more likely to experience the breakup of their families, be exposed to ‘complex’ family forms, live in poverty, suffer abuse, and have negative psychological and educational outcomes,” according to the Institute for Family Studies (IFS).

Two-thirds (2/3) of cohabiting parents split up before their child reaches age 12, while only a quarter (1/4) of married parents divorce, according to an April 2017 Brookings Institution report." click here

"Over 40 percent of married mothers and fathers have a bachelor’s degree, according to a March 2016 U.S. Census Current Population Survey. Only 8 to 10 percent of cohabiting mothers and fathers with one or more biological child have a bachelor’s degree.

Children living with their biological cohabiting parents are also more than four times as likely to be physically, sexually or emotionally abused as kids living with their married parents, according to the Fourth National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect."  from here

 

Well, that would depend on the source. For example, the source linked is from a website owned by Tucker Carlson of Fox News, so naturally they would lean toward what they term "traditional" families (which is interesting given how many of them are on their second or third marriages).

And didn't the OP say neither he nor his partner want children?  So this isn't exactly relevant anyway.

[smackie9]

I see a flaw in that because, most of those people were just dating, move in together sometimes almost immediately and the pregnancy was most likely an accident, not planned. And they stick together for the child's sake, not because they want to plan a future together.

I think the OP is better than that. If he's already established, can afford to buy a home on his own, responsible, he won't be a part of those statistics.

For my situation, it was heavily discussed very early in our relationship. And we were careful as to when we would live together. We made sure we were mentally and financially ready, sorted out expenses ahead of time. We prepared.

[maritalbliss86]

Just now, boltnrun said:

from a website owned by Tucker Carlson of Fox News, so naturally they would lean toward what they term "traditional"

These are actually from many different places and studies... like the US Census to find out their education levels and income levels and compare living situations, and then the study findings from the Institute of Family Studies, or the 4th National Incident study on Abuse and Neglect to show what children from accidental pregnancies end up suffering more when in cohabitation arrangements.... 

All of those above are valid, it has nothing to do with a random political talk show person. 

I think it's valid as any person considering cohabitation could always have an accidental pregnancy if he or she's not sterilized... if a person cohabitates, there's actually a much higher risk of accidental pregnancy than if they don't cohabitate (those were also cited in the article).

[LaHermes]

13 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

And didn't the OP say neither he nor his partner want children?  So this isn't exactly relevant anyway.

Not relevant at all. 

The OP has repeatedly said he does not wish to marry. So, essentially, all that matters is how he and his GF resolve their particular dilemma.  I am quite sure the OP is well aware of what cohabitation entails. 

[maritalbliss86]

1 minute ago, smackie9 said:

and the pregnancy was most likely an accident, not planned

Yes!  I said pages ago that the biggest risk was probably an accidental pregnancy.  Statistically, it's just more likely to happen if they live together full time, it's a math thing, not a feelings thing.

"Between 2006 and 2010, only 23 percent of births to married women were unintended

while 51 percent of births to unmarried cohabiting women were unintended."

[boltnrun]

2 minutes ago, maritalbliss86 said:

Yes!  I said pages ago that the biggest risk was probably an accidental pregnancy.  Statistically, it's just more likely to happen if they live together full time, it's a math thing, not a feelings thing.

"Between 2006 and 2010, only 23 percent of births to married women were unintended

while 51 percent of births to unmarried cohabiting women were unintended."

Easily solved with a vasectomy and/or tubal ligation.

[Batya33]

No studies but my dear friend and her male partner (not married but domestic partners for insurance purposes since he can’t get from his job) are both highly educated - grad degrees - the first pregnancy was accidental and she miscarried.  The second one was planned. Their son is now a teenager.  Together 16 years.  
 

My husband and I never lived together prior to marriage but I was very pregnant at the wedding.  Planned as we wanted to start trying before the wedding as I was 40. Together over 15 years.  Married a dozen.  But I guess we’d fall into some unmarried category for part of that time especially given that I was knocked up. We’re both highly educated too. 

[smackie9]

Just goes to show you, every situation is different. To note, some well educated married people stay together because it's cheaper to stay married than get divorced. Out of the mouth of a few coworkers of mine who's marriages are pretty much mute.

[LaHermes]

3 minutes ago, smackie9 said:

some well educated married people stay together because it's cheaper to stay married than get divorced

Not all that uncommon Smackie. I know a few of those as well. 

And, I also know a few who got divorced (on paper) but still live together as man and wife.  Something to do with rather arcane financial structures. These are very wealthy folks. 

[smackie9]

Oh yes I can see that. Claiming to be single can bring a better tax break for sure.

[boltnrun]

30 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Not all that uncommon Smackie. I know a few of those as well. 

And, I also know a few who got divorced (on paper) but still live together as man and wife.  Something to do with rather arcane financial structures. These are very wealthy folks. 

My coworker and her husband got divorced because they wanted to buy a house but the husband's credit was so bad they couldn't qualify for a mortgage.  The wife could qualify on her own.  They were supposed to get remarried a year later but they never did (at least the last time I talked to her).  He kept putting the remarriage off for some reason.

That makes me wonder who gets to write off the property taxes in the OP's situation.

[smackie9]

Must be nice to write off property taxes...that don't happen in Canada.

[LaHermes]

Yes. Smackie. I dare say it has something to do with taxes.  This couple in particular would have been married at least 30 years with adult children.  But so much acquired wealth and all these complicated structures would no doubt have led them to "divorce" on paper only. 

[Cherylyn]

On 7/31/2021 at 3:52 PM, Batya33 said:

 

I know plenty of people who are too nice to a point yet very tough and ultimately would never end up as  doormats by any stretch.  I agree, doormats allow themselves to be doormats. 

Character, honor, morals, virtues, respect and integrity is stellar character and what real love is.  

I was never swept off my feet.  They were firmly planted on the ground from day one.  I think it's because I've seen and heard everything and by the time I chose my husband and after comparing him to my late father, my husband was "thee one."  No doubt about it whatsoever.  I have my FIL (father-in-law) to thank for that because he taught my husband how to be A MAN.

My wedding was very budget friendly.  It wasn't elaborate and not nearly as expensive as weddings and receptions are today.  I lived at home at the time so I saved my money for the wedding and reception and my husband paid for our tropical honeymoon.  I spent a total of $2K for my wedding including wedding gown (w/veil), bridal party attire, wedding (florist / wedding cake / pastor / pianist / harpist) and reception.  I supplied first toast champagne and it was a cash 'n carry bar.  (My husband and I are teetotalers.)  I fed everyone prime rib & sides, we hired a DJ and the reception was at a refurbished old Victorian mansion across from my husband's small hometown church.   No flash there.  My wedding day was humble yet elegant. 

[Batya33]

Probably semantics but to me "too nice" when it's more than rare comes from a place of insecurity and or passivity and to me is not "nice" at all.

[mylolita]

Have loved lurking in on this thread!

 

I am part of the last standing old romantics team here and one of the characterises of being romantic and a traditionalist is part of it doesn’t make any logical sense but you still do it anyway!

 

Meeting the woman of your dreams and saying hey babe I can’t wait to cohabit with your for the rest of my life or sign a prenup just doesn’t have the same breathless vibe as this is the girl for me over the shoulder you go let’s get hitched and make 10,000 babies and I’d die for you a thousand times over with glee 😉 here have everything I own what’s yours is mine!

 

I always think when you truly meet someone who blows you away you do anything to almost make sure that person knows they are eternally loved by you and you darn well sure they are not going to be getting away by having a better offer walk past! There is something also, can I say, weirdly sexy, in an explicit ownership vibe, when as a woman you take on your husbands last name. It almost symbolises leaving girlhood and entering his world and becoming part of his family and also creating your own unit together.

 

When someone is introduced as “this is my wife” or “this is my husband” we all know how serious that is. When someone says “this is my partner” or “this is my girlfriend” I think most people when honest don’t take those titles as seriously, even if the couple have lived together for 20 years compared to the married couple of 5. It must be a serious proposition still, marriage, or why the discussion and reluctance? We know in our culture it still holds gravitas.

 

If you really love a woman, get down on your knee boy, and if you don’t, I imagine the right one at the right time may just make them weak enough to give you no option 😉

 

But again, no use to the OP, just giving you my Gone With The Wind notions hahahahaha!

 

Best of luck,

romance and dreaming isn’t totally dead,

Lo x

[dias]

47 minutes ago, mylolita said:

If you really love a woman, get down on your knee boy

Certainly, with pleasure😎 

 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, mylolita said:

There is something also, can I say, weirdly sexy, in an explicit ownership vibe, when as a woman you take on your husbands last name. It almost symbolises leaving girlhood and entering his world and becoming part of his family and also creating your own unit together.

Not all women take on their husband's last name and many women who marry are already adults.  I left girlhood about 20 years before I married.  And many couples have their own individual perspective on marriage and not necessarily any ownership vibe.  So I don't know that this perspective works for everyone or even for most.

[boltnrun]

"Explicit ownership vibe"? 

I suppose some "girls" want to be owned by a man but I surely was never one of them lol.

My sister in law did not take on my brother in law's last name. They've been married over 20 years and have 3 beautiful children. They love each other very much. I'm trying to picture her reaction if someone suggested she should take on her husband's name so he could "own" her. It wouldn't be good or positive, to say the least.

I didn't get the impression the OP is interested in "owning" his partner. Nor that he wanted to be talked into marriage.

I hope he comes back to let us know how the conversation went.