Please help clear up an issue that my fiancé can’t see my point

[C-Gar]

Here’s the scenario. (I’m 45 and she’s 40)

VDay was (from start to almost finish) verging on the best day ever. We woke up early, made breakfast, watched some Netflix and had an Afternoon Nap. When I woke up it was only 1:30pm. The room was dark and AC was blowing, perfect vibe for some afternoon sex! After that, i thought the day couldn’t get any better... but it did. She told me I had an hour to get ready and she was taking me out for dinner! When I was ready I came out of the room to her standing there, looking stunning, absolutely gorgeous and with one of the most thoughtful gifts I’ve ever received. We then left for dinner and after a great meal, conversation and laughs we went home. She told me she had a movie planned and she was going to give me a massage. I felt like a kid in a candy store and happily agreed.

Now this is where I need clarity and advice;

The massage (which was a first) was given to me in our bed where all I had on was boxer briefs and she in a red tiny nightie (normal bed time attire for her). After a good 45 minutes of utter relaxation and pleasure I was absolutely turned on. I thought for sure we would be having round 2. “Why not”, I thought. Everything was perfect and the stars had aligned. So, when I flipped over from my back to my front, I was surprised when she stopped suddenly before my “man-hood” area was addressed (I mean she rubbed my bootie like she was kneading dough) and why I thought she was joking/teasing me, so I said, babe aren’t you going to finish??? She said she was finished. I still thought she was kidding so I said, “really?” and BOOM that was it! She was immediately upset and asked in the most disgusted way, why i would think that? Why would I expect sex? She said we already had sex. Then she asked what my expectations were? I said based on the day, signals, vibe, the romance and because of this rub down I’m now extremely turned on.... SEX. She immediately stormed out of the room and I was left to feel what the hell just happened. What was wrong with me that I can be so far off? I ended up going downstairs and fell asleep there. The next morning we didn’t talk and she went to work. We text about the situations and she wasn’t seeing my side (which is normal). She finally said (and not till after I felt disgusting and dirty like i did something wrong and how could I have been so insensitive) that she had started her period right after we got home from dinner. I literally could not believe that she didn’t just tell me that before she started the massage. I said to her, you could of just said, babe I have to let you know that I just started my period at that point I could of decided what to do and if I choose to proceed I would do so with caution. I was now uber upset and bummed that if she had just said that and set the expectations herself all this bull*** would have completely been avoided.

Now here we are not talking and with what could have been a perfect day is now ruined.

I feel that my expectations aren’t and weren’t in the wrong but maybe they are. Help me either feel validated or let me know I’m an ass for not being able to read her mind that and know she had started her period.
 

Thanks!

 

[Lambert]

I think it's a petty and stupid argument. So she didn't respond the way you expected and you didn't respond the way she expected.

What are you going to do turn back time? 

You both have a hand in the misunderstanding and the continuing of it.

Do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy? 

I would talk to her in a loving and kind way.  What do you two agree will be the way to handle these things going forward? 

And then let it go... 🙄

[Hollyj]

6 minutes ago, Lambert said:

I think it's a petty and stupid argument. So she didn't respond the way you expected and you didn't respond the way she expected.

What are you going to do turn back time? 

You both have a hand in the misunderstanding and the continuing of it.

Do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy? 

I would talk to her in a loving and kind way.  What do you two agree will be the way to handle these things going forward? 

And then let it go... 🙄

I agree!

[Jibralta]

1 hour ago, C-Gar said:

I feel that my expectations aren’t and weren’t in the wrong but maybe they are. Help me either feel validated or let me know I’m an ass for not being able to read her mind that and know she had started her period.

I thought you were 45? Why do you need to be validated? Let it go.

[SooSad33]

2 hours ago, C-Gar said:

I feel that my expectations aren’t and weren’t in the wrong but maybe they are. Help me either feel validated or let me know I’m an ass for not being able to read her mind that and know she had started her period.

Well of course you can't read minds!

I feel her reaction was an over- reaction... Anyone who's done that 'massage' thing... knows it often leads to intimacy.

Even if it's that time of the month, there is still something that can be done.

So yeah... she seemed a little abrupt... maybe just a little too 'moody'?  And reacted ticked off :(.  But no reason for it.

[C-Gar]

51 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

I thought you were 45? Why do you need to be validated? Let it go.

Bravo! Well said and easy enough. I’m moving on. Thank you! 

[Capricorn3]

Sounds like you guys had a nice day (until that glitch happened), BUT, I'm just curious ...... what did you do for her?

[C-Gar]

2 hours ago, Capricorn3 said:

Sounds like you guys had a nice day (until that glitch happened), BUT, I'm just curious ...... what did you do for her?

Well... i caught my ex wife cheating on me about 5 years ago blaming it on many things but one of the issues that stood out was that I wasn’t present towards the end of our relationship. She was right, I wasn’t and my focus was on building a new company that took a majority of my time and left me exhausted and with little to no effort to work on us. Because I was able to accept my faults and continue to work through my short comings with counseling I know am extremely vigilant and make my relationship my number one priority. Because it was Valentine’s Day had no bearing on how I treat her. I’m fortunate enough now to have a dream schedule and the means to make her feel like she’s the only women on earth. So to some up your question, I’m was a Chef for 22 years and cook for her 50% of the year. The other 50% she’s with me eating all over the world in my clients restaurants, hotels and resorts. I’m absolutely no Angel nor do I resemble Brad Pitt but I believe I’m a good man who will do anything for her in my best capabilities. 

[C-Gar]

3 hours ago, SooSad33 said:

Well of course you can't read minds!

I feel her reaction was an over- reaction... Anyone who's done that 'massage' thing... knows it often leads to intimacy.

Even if it's that time of the month, there is still something that can be done.

So yeah... she seemed a little abrupt... maybe just a little too 'moody'?  And reacted ticked off :(.  But no reason for it.

I agree 100%. Now I guess I just have to swallow that pill and move on. It’s pointless to reason with her at times it’s just bugs the crap out of me knowing she thinks she was right and did no wrong. Ughhhh..... sometimes I really hate relationships. 

[C-Gar]

5 hours ago, Lambert said:

I think it's a petty and stupid argument. So she didn't respond the way you expected and you didn't respond the way she expected.

What are you going to do turn back time? 

You both have a hand in the misunderstanding and the continuing of it.

Do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy? 

I would talk to her in a loving and kind way.  What do you two agree will be the way to handle these things going forward? 

And then let it go... 🙄

I’m with you on the beginning of your response but please may I ask why you think I have a hand in the misunderstanding? 
I don’t necessarily want to be right and know this isn’t a points game but I feel I should at least know where I went wrong and if I didn’t why is she holding on so tight to an issue she should be responsible for. Do I just let her walk away without even an apology? 

I’ve tried to be kind and understanding and approach these types of issues with kids gloves but she just can’t be wrong. We’re in therapy about this.  

[Wiseman2]

How long have you been dating? Do you live together? 

Sounds like she was pretty disappointed at your lame Valentine's approach. 

What do you mean by "fiance" is there a ring and wedding date?

What, exactly did you do for her on vday?

On top of that you're annoyed she had her time of the month when you wanted to continue being pampered after doing zip for her?

[LunarUK]

Whilst I think she probably did over react, as a woman I think I can understand how she felt. 
 

She’d spent the whole day treating you and what she heard was “is that all you’re going to offer me?” and probably came across as being ungrateful. You probably should’ve communicated your needs as a request rather than a demand or expectation. 
 

Also I’m concerned about the language you used around her period: 

9 hours ago, C-Gar said:

babe I have to let you know that I just started my period at that point I could of decided what to do and if I choose to proceed I would do so with caution.

It’s not about whether you decide to proceed with caution but whether you both wanted to. By her words, you could clearly hear the underlying message of I don’t want to have sex right now. Whether or not she was on her period is immaterial. 
 

So yeah, just a comms issue but to me that’s how it may have come across to her. Personally, I once flipped at a BF when he said I’d “ruined HIS orgasm”. It sounded entitled and selfish. Focus on showing gratitude and asking (not expecting) for your needs to be met too. 

[Jibralta]

4 hours ago, C-Gar said:

I don’t necessarily want to be right and know this isn’t a points game but I feel I should at least know where I went wrong and if I didn’t why is she holding on so tight to an issue she should be responsible for. Do I just let her walk away without even an apology?

She did have a strong reaction. So, I suspect there is a little more to her story that you may not be aware of. I think it would be a good idea to wait until both of your feelings settle. Then ask her about what happened that day, and listen to what she has to say. It may not be a big deal, just something you weren't aware of. 

[Lambert]

5 hours ago, C-Gar said:

I’m with you on the beginning of your response but please may I ask why you think I have a hand in the misunderstanding? 
I don’t necessarily want to be right and know this isn’t a points game but I feel I should at least know where I went wrong and if I didn’t why is she holding on so tight to an issue she should be responsible for. Do I just let her walk away without even an apology? 

I’ve tried to be kind and understanding and approach these types of issues with kids gloves but she just can’t be wrong. We’re in therapy about this.  

Well... if you're in therapy already and there are in going issues that could change what I'm saying,  but that is much more complicated than what this forum is for. 

But from what you wrote,  I think where you went wrong and maybe this could be your on going problem... are you always so one sided in your thinking? meaning do you take what you think and experience in the relationship to be "the truth"?

To your own admission, you were having a great day together.  Why did you escalate to sleeping on the couch?  Why didn't you just laugh it off or change the vibe? 

Even this response, 'letting her  walk away without an apology.'  Are you always this dug in on every argument? 

You say you were like a kid in a candy store. Are you super spoiled? Like your every need and whim needs meet? even after she already gave you a great time? like it wasn't enough? 

Sometimes a person gets pissed because they feel under appreciated. Like where do you say you understand how she must have felt.  

I know you don't get periods but they can rough and she could have felt disappointment, too. And then here's you,  unsatisfied because Why? because you have to have everything for you. 

I'm not saying that's what's happening... but the fact that you can't even imagine how you had a part in an argument, says something. 

[Jibralta]

6 hours ago, C-Gar said:

I’ve tried to be kind and understanding and approach these types of issues with kids gloves

When you "try to be understanding," it implies that you've already decided that the issue is not understandable. You are making a show of magnanimity by displaying patience for a situation that you believe to be irrational and ridiculous.

The "kid gloves" thing comes off as condescending. People don't like to be treated as idiots or lunatics.

[lostandhurt]

This was a misunderstanding brought on by the lack of information.  She was probably bothered that she started her period at an inopportune moment and your reaction made it worse.  Nobodies fault here, it happens.

Perhaps she was expecting a message from you but you went straight to sex?  Hard to say.

You are not 18 so you know it is possible to do everything correct with a woman and still be wrong.  Apologize to her for not being sensitive enough and that had you known she had started you wouldn't have reacted the way you did.  Agree that you would like more open communication going forward even if it is something unpleasant.

Stop trying to be right or defend yourself, just accept these things happen sometimes.

Lost

[smackie9]

In her eyes you came of as selfish.

I think since she was spoiling you with this massage, she was expecting one too or you could have just returned the favor, then things probably would have progressed to sex later. Remember this.

 

[indea08]

These last five or so replies are spot on. She did this and that all day for you, gives you a full body massage, you felt so spoiled, and when her massage turned out to be only a massage, your response of “really?” was 100% the wrong thing to say.

I understand why you thought that the rub down would lead to sex, but women don’t necessarily work that way. For example, when my husband gives me oral, he’s ready to go afterward. When I give him oral, I still need to be warmed up before moving on to sex. So you rubbing her down (or vice versa) may have you pitching a tent and ready for the next step, but for her it was more sensual. It was her way of making you feel loved, showing that she appreciates you and your body in a way that’s deeper than (or different from) sex. And you ruined that for her when you said “really?”

I do think she could’ve handled it better, she let her emotions speak for her which escalated the situation. All you can do now... “honey, I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean to make you feel like I expected sex or you owed it to me. Your massage just really made me want you, but I understand now that sometimes intimacy is just as meaningful without sex. That day was such a great day, thank you for every single memory. I love you.”

ETA: Your title to this thread is telling. “Help, my fiancé can’t see my point.” Your statement should’ve been “Help, I can’t understand my fiancé’s point.”

Once you can understand her, it’s much easier to see why she can’t understand you. Always seek to understand first, for only once we’ve identified the barriers to communication can we do something about them.

[Rose Mosse]

No reason to be so unkind to you. Wait for this to blow over and don't overthink it. Your expectations obviously were not wrong so don't start second guessing yourself. Periods are a hot mess and the hormones that go with it, not always pleasant. The best thing you can do right now is chuck out negative thoughts, stay yourself and keep yourself busy with your interests. 

If she has a history of blowing up at you or other time of the month/hormonal issues you both can talk about that if she's open to it (do it after a period, not before). Good luck. 

[C-Gar]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

How long have you been dating? Do you live together? 

Sounds like she was pretty disappointed at your lame Valentine's approach. 

What do you mean by "fiance" is there a ring and wedding date?

What, exactly did you do for her on vday?

On top of that you're annoyed she had her time of the month when you wanted to continue being pampered after doing zip for her?

So quick to place me in a category of a man that I am so far from. This is a chat room to ask for simple advice from a forum of people who may or may not be qualified to offer is why I didn’t share my 45 years of life and life lessons to give you a clear and concise picture of who I am. But to think I would have the audacity to post this thread without knowing without a doubt this woman is treated everyday like a Princess is ludicrous. But this is what it is and expectations for people’s one sided view is expected. We’ve been engaged for a year and a half. We’re getting married in Greece on Nov 9 this year. We share a beautiful home in Santa Monica as well as a vacation home in Palm Desert. Thank you for your input, it is appreciated. 

[indea08]

1 minute ago, Rose Mosse said:

 

If she has a history of blowing up at you or other time of the month/hormonal issues you both can talk about that if she's open to it (do it after a period, not before). Good luck. 

I don’t want to negate was Rose said, I just simply want to add, be careful with this thinking. SHE does not need to know that you time conversations based on her cycle. That’s something for YOU to consider yourself. If my husband treated me like I was irrational simply because I was on my period....oh lord help him. 

[C-Gar]

12 minutes ago, indea08 said:

These last five or so replies are spot on. She did this and that all day for you, gives you a full body massage, you felt so spoiled, and when her massage turned out to be only a massage, your response of “really?” was 100% the wrong thing to say.

I understand why you thought that the rub down would lead to sex, but women don’t necessarily work that way. For example, when my husband gives me oral, he’s ready to go afterward. When I give him oral, I still need to be warmed up before moving on to sex. So you rubbing her down (or vice versa) may have you pitching a tent and ready for the next step, but for her it was more sensual. It was her way of making you feel loved, showing that she appreciates you and your body in a way that’s deeper (or different from) than sex. And you ruined that for her when you said “really?”

I do think she could’ve handled it better, she let her emotions speak for her which escalated the situation. All you can do now... “honey, I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean to make you feel like I expected sex or you owed it to me. Your massage just really made me want you, but I understand now that sometimes intimacy is just as meaningful without sex. That day was such a great day, thank you for every single memory. I love you.”

ETA: Your title to this thread is telling. “Help, my fiancé can’t see my point.” Your statement should’ve been “Help, I can’t understand my fiancé’s point.”

Once you can understand her, it’s much easier to see why she can’t understand you. Always seek to understand first, for only once we’ve identified the barriers to communication can we do something about them.

This is by far the best advice I think I’ve ever received! I don’t know if you do this for a living but seriously would like to know if you do? You are able to cut through the BS and nail the issue right on the head. The minute I send this back to you I’m calling her to read her your reply, apologize and rethink my approach when we have disagreements. Thank you and let me know! 

[indea08]

23 minutes ago, C-Gar said:

This is by far the best advice I think I’ve ever received! I don’t know if you do this for a living but seriously would like to know if you do? You are able to cut through the BS and nail the issue right on the head. The minute I send this back to you I’m calling her to read her your reply, apologize and rethink my approach when we have disagreements. Thank you and let me know! 

I’m so glad you found it helpful, and I hope she’s receptive!! I don’t do this for a living, I am a nurse, so empathy is pretty much engrained into me. Plus the political events over the last few years have really forced me to learn how to communicate with people who believe differently than me. Turns out once you learn to understand them first, it becomes pretty easy AND you learn a lot, it changes your perspective. I guess 2020 had a few silver linings.

Reach out any time you like! I log in fairly frequently these days since I deleted my Facebook (too much of “THIS IS MY OPINION, IT IS FACT” and not enough of “what is your opinion, and why?”).

[SooSad33]

10 hours ago, C-Gar said:

I agree 100%. Now I guess I just have to swallow that pill and move on. It’s pointless to reason with her at times it’s just bugs the crap out of me knowing she thinks she was right and did no wrong. Ughhhh..... sometimes I really hate relationships. 

Yup, the joys of relationships 😉  It takes patience, trust, communication, energy & strength to have it be a success.

You are engaged - nice :) Wish you the best .. and that you two are doing therapy is also good help. ( I've been through too much, ended up mentally & emotionally exhausted - also ended up in therapy- nowadays, I just tc of me ❤️ . But there, I was able to vent & learn some coping skills.. takes time but is helpful).

Yes, women are quite different than men at times.. I guess you've read a few facts about that?  lol

One thing that may be helpful as well is a book I took forever to look into, but did last year. 'Men are from Mars, women from Venus' . . explains a lot of our differences.  Maybe look for that - I did find it online.

Hoping, your gf has calmed down some by now & you two are back to good?  It takes time, since we're all different w/ different issue's & challenges, but if you two are engaged, shows determination & where you two sit at this time.  :)

 

[East4]

OP, you still haven't specified if you have done anything special for your fiancée on vday. All day long she has been pampering you, and instead of showing appreciation, you acted like a spoilt brat with your "really, is that all?". I think she was on a mission to give you an unforgettable valentine day to only find out that you were not satisfied with what she did. What is it so difficult to understand?

Most probably she has not been feeling that great physically the whole day as it was her shark day, the discomfort normally starts a few days prior, so she already made an effort the first time round when you had sex. 

Imagine the places were reversed and you busted your a$$ to please your fiancée, and all she had to say is "Really? Is that all?" you wouldn't be pleased either.

So, back on the question: what did you do for her on vday? Forget about cooking throughout the year, house in st. Monika, etc,  this is the mundane stuff. The question is if you anyhow reciprocated the special treatment you have received on vday. How will she remember this vday: pleasuring you, taking you to dinner, dressing up for you, followed by 45 min full massage (mind you this is tiring) for only then be diminished with your ungrateful remark. And now you even expect an apology? For what? For behaving like a bottomless pit that is never happy with all the attention and pleasure you got that day?

I also think that women should quit overextending themselves and do super nice things, when they are not willing/tired/ not in the mood. Because it breeds resentment, when a man just takes it for granted. So one little "Really?" can act as an ignition spark on highly inflammable pent-up resentment.

I also do not like your choice of words, quoted: "Should I let her go without an apology". What does that mean? She will give an apology if she feels she owes you one. You cannot extract an apology, and honestly the one who should apologise is actually you.

17 hours ago, C-Gar said:

Help me either feel validated or let me know I’m an ass for not being able to read her mind that and know she had started her period.

 Short answer: yes absolutely, you have been an a$$. Because you took, and took that day, as if you are entitled and did not show any appreciation.