Staying friends with a Narcissist because your Spouse is Friends with Theirs?

[tattoobunnie]

So I have a "friend" that I'm come to realize is a super insecure and a negative Narcissist.  Normally, I can totally kick it with anyone, and have with her for two years now, but many times in larger groups with both men, women, and our kids.  On the surface she can appear very caring and generous, but if it's just the girls, she will try to go on how anything good in your life is not good enough for her, whether an activity, place to live (she constantly disses where I was born and raised, and where we all live now, but that can take up its own paragraph.), how her one kid is so much better, and loves him more than I love my kids, you get the point - full on Narcissist.  And she never remembers anything you tell her.  She's fun (sort of) at the parties she throws, but with the pandemic, she's been insisting on just girls.  Even though she makes her husband do all the cooking, but he can't have any friends over.

So three weeks ago, she was going on and on in front of us ladies about how our area sucks, and how my husband just knocked and walked into her home, and she was wearing booty shorts and no bra, and how furious she was, and something is wrong with him.  What she fails to mention is that she was completely covered by a blanket, and her husband told mine to come in.  I started to realize she is always dissing my husband in front of everyone.  Normally, I can overlook her constant, constant weight shame where she obsessively talks about losing the 5 pounds she has to lose with her BMI of 18, and how she can't watch a movie with ugly people in it, but comments about my hubs that are completely untrue was the last straw for me for "ladies night" at her home.

So two weeks ago, she invited me over, and I said I was busy.  This morning, she is inviting me over, and I have yet to text back.

Normally, I have zero issues writing people like this off.  And it took me a while to get how negative she was because I've never made a habit of making friends with people like this.  But my husband is good buddies with her husband, who is very normal and cool.  He tends to avoid her by pretending to be stoned...that's another paragraph.

I already told my hubs 3 weeks ago, I was done going over there, unless it was both guys and gals, since she tends to act a bit more normal.  My question is, should I take one for the team, and keep the peace? Ugh, I already know I don't want to.  But my hubs and I don't have too many local, easily accessible buddies.  The pandemic doesn't seem to bother her either, like she can't just not wanna hang out.  I wore a mask last time.  

My only other excuse is that I'm social distancing for Chinese New Year, so I can spend it with my folks.

What do you think? It's been out of my head for two weeks now, but her text makes me wonder - should I stay the course? I don't want hubs losing his buddy. I know she tries to isolate him, but trust me, I'm not interested in blowing anything up with a Narcissist, but she would never see herself as one, so it's not about talking it out - it's strategizing.

Our mutual buddy who was also there that night, also went home super upset that night because of the issue with her talking about how crappy it is where we live, and how our Buddy wasn't well-traveled, which is completely untrue.  The next day, this Buddy admitted she took a long time out because of her strong personality.

Thanks.

[boltnrun]

Do you truly believe your husband will "lose his buddy" just because you choose not to hang out with his wife?

[tattoobunnie]

Just now, boltnrun said:

Do you truly believe your husband will "lose his buddy" just because you choose not to hang out with his wife?

I do. When they try to talk to each other in person about their business venture, her jealousy is so bad, she will drone on and on how awful an idea it is, and how this and this and this, and how it's all about her.   Our kids go to the same school.  It's a mom friend scenario.  Brushing her off indefinitely would be obvious.  I can't pull the pandemic card, because I am going to work, and go hiking and museums with the fam.

[Rose Mosse]

Can you make a cameo for maybe 20 minutes and then say that you have something that's come up and you have to work on? I don't see why you have to stay the full length of the visit. She sounds like an overgrown child. 

[Hollyj]

Nope.  No "taking one for the team."    

I think Covid is the perfect excuse not to visit.   I would not go over there again, unless the whole group is present.   You will have a nice long break.

[Hollyj]

12 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

I do. When they try to talk to each other in person about their business venture, her jealousy is so bad, she will drone on and on how awful an idea it is, and how this and this and this, and how it's all about her.   Our kids go to the same school.  It's a mom friend scenario.  Brushing her off indefinitely would be obvious.  I can't pull the pandemic card, because I am going to work, and go hiking and museums with the fam.

Being in someone's home is much different than going hiking or  a museum.   Work is necessary.  Personally, I do not go to anyone's home, other than  my mother's. 

 

Doesn't anyone speak up to this bully?

[tattoobunnie]

5 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

Can you make a cameo for maybe 20 minutes and then say that you have something that's come up and you have to work on? I don't see why you have to stay the full length of the visit. She sounds like an overgrown child. 

I totally could, but then she'll pull the your husband can take care of it card.  Even going out to eat, she only wants "girls only."  My entire life, I've always gone out with groups with both guys and gals - zero issues. I can now see it's her way of trying to isolate me from my hubs.  She's even tried to convince me that my eldest son has anger issues because he didn't want to confide in her last month (whatever - yes, my 8 year child has zero interest in confiding with a grown arse woman he doesn't fully know), and told other moms this.  I guess I have my idea of what to do. I feel bad for my hubs - I have very little interest in him getting any repercussions from my own choices.

Easy come - easy go, I guess.

[Batya33]

2 minutes ago, Hollyj said:

Being in someone's home is much different than going hiking or going to a museum.   Work is necessary.  Personally, I do not go to anyone's home, except my mother's. 

Yes- say that with the new strain etc homes are outside your comfort level.

[Hollyj]

The numbers are horrible, and with the new strains it is even more scary.  

 

You can also say you're busy.

[Rose Mosse]

I think the only person you need to be extra clear with is your husband on where you stand regarding his friend's wife. You don't have to play nice if it's making you uncomfortable. 

If you find everyone around you acting like children, you don't have to stoop to the same thing. While you're feeling all this discomfort your husband is going his merry way with his friend and they're having a ball. The only person stewing and upset is you... over another person who is so far down your nice list that you wish they were in the ground.

Stick up for yourself a bit more and don't go if you feel you don't want to go. It sounds like she can take care of herself. 

[Wiseman2]

52 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

My only other excuse is that I'm social distancing for Chinese New Year, so I can spend it with my folks.

Yikes. This is a good method. Also use the "Gray Rock" approach. Sort of be boring, don't react, in-one-ear-and-out-the-other type of thing. As you know, people like this thrive on generating chaos, conflict and crises, so that they are always the hero/victim of their own tales.

[tattoobunnie]

She texted just now again about coming over.  I guess I also feel super bad for my eldest.  He's started therapy this month after telling his counseling group he would kill himself if he had to go remote again for school, like they did for months last Spring. While his social worker, school counselor, and therapist do not think he's a candidate, really, she is the only one that invites him over, like tonight.

And I do feel bad - she is human.  TBH, I am torn. I am not sure if it means, I am enabling by going, and it may get worse. Or because 3 weeks ago, when I walked in, her husband had to say in front of her, "wow, you keep losing weight!", which completely set her off, because she herself is obsessed about her weight, but her husband wouldn't ever tell her stuff like that. 

Ugh. Right now, don't want to make a bad move.

[tattoobunnie]

33 minutes ago, Rose Mosse said:

It sounds like she can take care of herself. 

This is a good point.

[Hollyj]

You are allowing this situation.  You are making this more difficult than it has to be.  Why can't you say you are busy?   If i don't want friends over, I say no.   They do the same.    

[tattoobunnie]

5 minutes ago, Hollyj said:

You are allowing this situation.  You are making this more difficult than it has to be.  Why can't you say you are busy?   If i don't want friends over, I say no.   They do the same.    

Because she's normal and cool when it's just me and her.  And, she's not an A-hole in a large group.  It's not just about me.  It's about my hubs and my kid too.  Other than my kid feeling completely isolated, and my hubs having a hypertensive crisis from the stress from isolation this summer, it really isn't black and white.

Either way, I told her I was social distancing through Chinese New Year, so I could spend it with my folks.

She is already trying to make plans for after Chinese New Year 🤣

[DancingFool]

31 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

She texted just now again about coming over.  I guess I also feel super bad for my eldest.  He's started therapy this month after telling his counseling group he would kill himself if he had to go remote again for school, like they did for months last Spring. While his social worker, school counselor, and therapist do not think he's a candidate, really, she is the only one that invites him over, like tonight.

And I do feel bad - she is human.  TBH, I am torn. I am not sure if it means, I am enabling by going, and it may get worse. Or because 3 weeks ago, when I walked in, her husband had to say in front of her, "wow, you keep losing weight!", which completely set her off, because she herself is obsessed about her weight, but her husband wouldn't ever tell her stuff like that. 

Ugh. Right now, don't want to make a bad move.

Given the above, I think you need to start recognizing that her husband isn't an innocent lamb either. They are both toxic people playing toxic games and in a way triangulating you and your husband. Also, if your eldest is fragile like that, then you need to keep him away from psychos.

Personally, I think that you and your husband both need to step way away from this couple and avoid getting entangled into any business with them. It will end in a train wreck.

[tattoobunnie]

Just now, DancingFool said:

 Also, if your eldest is fragile like that, then you need to keep him away from psychos

Crap, you are right about this. 

As far as her hubs goes, he is sincere, helpful, polite and kind, and has a good sense of humor.  My hubs says he has all the traits of an abused spouse, where their abusers tries to isolate him from others.  I don't quite see that, but I also didn't pick up on my kid feeling isolated and suicidal over the Spring. Same with my hubs increasingly getting physically worse (he's doing great right now though).

I am second-guessing myself - like am I overlooking things, or should I also be able to cut myself some slack.  It's been stressful during the pandemic and political climate and work to say the least.

 

[Hollyj]

"Same with my hubs increasingly getting physically worse"    What does this mean? 

[DancingFool]

21 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

Crap, you are right about this. 

As far as her hubs goes, he is sincere, helpful, polite and kind, and has a good sense of humor.  My hubs says he has all the traits of an abused spouse, where their abusers tries to isolate him from others.  I don't quite see that, but I also didn't pick up on my kid feeling isolated and suicidal over the Spring. Same with my hubs increasingly getting physically worse (he's doing great right now though).

I am second-guessing myself - like am I overlooking things, or should I also be able to cut myself some slack.  It's been stressful during the pandemic and political climate and work to say the least.

 

Having large parties doesn't jive with social isolation. If she was seeking to isolate him, you and her, your bubs - you wouldn't be friends.

What this does look like to me sitting in the bleacher seats is a very classic toxic trap. They, as a couple, bring certain things that you like, aka rewards. Those rewards are interspersed with toxic kinds of behaviors, but because you've come to value the rewards, you are turning the blind eye to and tolerating toxic and shady behaviors even though, you are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with that. Toxic people have a way of exhausting you and draining your energy even if you aren't actively aware of it happening. 

[tattoobunnie]

10 minutes ago, Hollyj said:

"Same with my hubs increasingly getting physically worse"    What does this mean? 

He lost his job, and stayed home with the kids from March on, and with the stress of remote learning and isolation, he stopped taking care of himself, and had a hypertensive crisis, which had him in the hospital for 4 days.  He only found out about it because his neck was swollen, so he went to his doctor.  The doc took an EKG, and told him to rush to the hospital.  If we would have waited, he would of had a straight up heart attack.  Not being able to be visit him for 4 days because of COVID policies was weird. It was also scary because I didn't realize they were going to take him right then and there at admission, or that he'd been building up to this.

Don't get me wrong. I have written off people like a box of rocks. I have come to realize, it's a lot harder to make new good friends when you're older.  Yes, sure it's like saying, don't expect a scorpion to not sting you, but I think I will stick to my plan...no more ladies' night. And okay to large - large group events in the future after some distance.  Just need to let go of the guilt.

[Wiseman2]

47 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

it really isn't black and white.

Actually with huge covid upticks and hospitals near capacity in your area, it is black and white. Why put your child and family at risk? To please who you call "a narcissist"? SMH

[tattoobunnie]

Just now, DancingFool said:

Having large parties doesn't jive with social isolation. If she was seeking to isolate him, you and her, your bubs - you wouldn't be friends.

What this does look like to me sitting in the bleacher seats is a very classic toxic trap. They, as a couple, bring certain things that you like, aka rewards. Those rewards are interspersed with toxic kinds of behaviors, but because you've come to value the rewards, you are turning the blind eye to and tolerating toxic and shady behaviors even though, you are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with that. Toxic people have a way of exhausting you and draining your energy even if you aren't actively aware of it happening. 

Hmm...I don't know.  Her husband doesn't want to hang out with her, and avoids her at gatherings.  They don't go on dates.  When I talk to her, everything is superficial like travel, music, weightloss, dieting, skin-care (yes, it can get boring). When we talk to him, it's a fair exchange, and he really helps us when we are in a jam, from a dead car battery, being stuck in a snowbank, or stuck in traffic to meet the bus for my youngest...and he never brings it up, or every makes you feel bad about it ever.  They seem to live on different orbits at times.

I think he aims to be a good husband, so will do as she asks.  Any party, it's who she invites.  He has never invited over any of his friends in the area, or family who live out of state.  It's her rodeo.

[tattoobunnie]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Actually with huge covid upticks and hospitals near capacity in your area, it is black and white. Why put your child and family at risk? To please who you call "a narcissist"? SMH

Yes, but a pandemic doesn't last forever. I am trying to figure things out for the long run.  Our kids go to the same school together, and are friends, so it's not that black and white.

[Hollyj]

19 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

He lost his job, and stayed home with the kids from March on, and with the stress of remote learning and isolation, he stopped taking care of himself, and had a hypertensive crisis, which had him in the hospital for 4 days.  He only found out about it because his neck was swollen, so he went to his doctor.  The doc took an EKG, and told him to rush to the hospital.  If we would have waited, he would of had a straight up heart attack.  Not being able to be visit him for 4 days because of COVID policies was weird. It was also scary because I didn't realize they were going to take him right then and there at admission, or that he'd been building up to this.

Don't get me wrong. I have written off people like a box of rocks. I have come to realize, it's a lot harder to make new good friends when you're older.  Yes, sure it's like saying, don't expect a scorpion to not sting you, but I think I will stick to my plan...no more ladies' night. And okay to large - large group events in the future after some distance.  Just need to let go of the guilt.

That's frightening.   

I don't agree with it being difficult to make friends when one is older.  If you get out there through volunteering, clubs, Meetups, whatever, you will expand your social circle- I know  that Covid puts a wrench in things.   I would rather have zero friends than deal with that idiot.   

I am happy to hear that you will cut off the in home get togethers, as that is dangerous and putting others at risk-look at the numbers from the holidays.   We all need to slow the spread.    

[Hollyj]

16 minutes ago, tattoobunnie said:

Yes, but a pandemic doesn't last forever. I am trying to figure things out for the long run.  Our kids go to the same school together, and are friends, so it's not that black and white.

It doesn't mean you have to hang out with her.