Wiseman2 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Don't drive together if you are prone to road rage and this upsets her. Don't discuss tv shows if you like yours and she likes hers You don't live together,so there's no need to agree on what you want to watch on TV . Don't tell her how to think or feel about her surgical procedure or scars. There's a lot of stuff not worth arguing about. It takes two to argue. Step back and don't participate in mindless debates about who's right, who's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 On 12/16/2020 at 2:11 PM, Wiseman2 said: By "goal" meaning moving forward in a direction that involves adult decisions such as moving in together, whether you want to marry or have kids,etc We wanted to move in together, but all these problems seem to have changed our minds for the moment. On 12/16/2020 at 2:11 PM, Wiseman2 said: Not just trying to get along and continually bicker. Right now you live with parents. You can't agree on finances or important things in fact you can't agree on nonsense like tv shows. Yes, I hate disagreeing on such stupid things (tv show I mean). On 12/16/2020 at 2:11 PM, Wiseman2 said: She seems a bit further along in her life stage. She has her own place, tries to cope with adult medical issues, finances,etc. May be, I can't determine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 15 hours ago, greendots said: The way that you drive, the shows that you watch, how you resolve problems, etc - these are choices you make. And these choices, trivial or important, are part of who you are. How do you feel about having to justify your choices to her, every time she doesn't approve of them? Is this a life you want? Of course it's not a life I want, that's what I am struggling with, I guess. I feel angry and not appreciated when having to justify my choices. I also tend to question myself to some degree and this confuses me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 17, 2020 Author Share Posted December 17, 2020 7 hours ago, catfeeder said: Speaking only for myself, if 2 years together has led my partner to question seeing a future with me, I'd skip all debate about who is right or wrong on anything. I'd thank him for being honest, and I'd tell him that I'd only come to resent him if I tried to dance for him in order to keep him. He knows me, and my hovering around isn't going to help him learn anything different about me. If he ever decides that he's clear that he wants a future with me, he can let me know. If I'm still available then, maybe we can meet to catch up. Otherwise, I wish him the best, and I'm walking away while we both still think highly of one another. We don't get any time back to relive over again. I may not be sure of a lot of things, but I certainly don't want someone who's not sure about me. Head high. Thanks! Wise words, I couldn't say it more precisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greendots Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 5 hours ago, drdre said: Of course it's not a life I want, that's what I am struggling with, I guess. I feel angry and not appreciated when having to justify my choices. I also tend to question myself to some degree and this confuses me. I see. You feel angry and not appreciated when having to justify your choices. And you also tend to question yourself to en extend which confuses you. It's not a life you want. So, what life do you want? Also, imagine that a friend of yours was going through a similar situation. What would you recommend them they should do? 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 On 12/17/2020 at 8:50 AM, Wiseman2 said: Don't drive together if you are prone to road rage and this upsets her. This is impossible. She doesn't drive and relies on me when we go somewhere. On 12/17/2020 at 8:50 AM, Wiseman2 said: Don't discuss tv shows if you like yours and she likes hers You don't live together,so there's no need to agree on what you want to watch on TV . What if we were living together? What would be my options then? On 12/17/2020 at 8:50 AM, Wiseman2 said: Don't tell her how to think or feel about her surgical procedure or scars. Point taken. On 12/17/2020 at 8:50 AM, Wiseman2 said: There's a lot of stuff not worth arguing about. It takes two to argue. Step back and don't participate in mindless debates about who's right, who's wrong. Makes sense! I will try to step back and be more aloof about arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 18, 2020 Author Share Posted December 18, 2020 20 hours ago, greendots said: I see. You feel angry and not appreciated when having to justify your choices. And you also tend to question yourself to en extend which confuses you. It's not a life you want. So, what life do you want? A life where I will be not so judged, I guess. The other person wants the same, I suppose. 20 hours ago, greendots said: Also, imagine that a friend of yours was going through a similar situation. What would you recommend them they should do? 🙂 I would recommend them to break up but it's easy to give advices, I guess Not so easy when you are in this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greendots Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 2 hours ago, drdre said: A life where I will be not so judged, I guess. The other person wants the same, I suppose. 2 hours ago, drdre said: I would recommend them to break up but it's easy to give advices, I guess Not so easy when you are in this place. For sure. ☺️ Obviously this woman means (beyond) a lot to you. Otherwise you wouldn't be devoting all this time and energy on this forum. May I ask, what makes her (or this relationship) so special? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollyj Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Why doesn't she drive? How did she manage to get around before knowing you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 22 hours ago, greendots said: For sure. ☺️ Obviously this woman means (beyond) a lot to you. Otherwise you wouldn't be devoting all this time and energy on this forum. May I ask, what makes her (or this relationship) so special? I like a lot of things about her (intellect, matureness, motivation, kindness, appearance, etc.) and I love her so I can't just put an end to it but at the same time I feel a little bit depending on her "mercy" to decide if we can stay together or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 22 hours ago, Hollyj said: Why doesn't she drive? How did she manage to get around before knowing you? She has a driving license but is scared to drive in the city so she gets around by public transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfeeder Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, drdre said: I love her so I can't just put an end to it but at the same time I feel a little bit depending on her "mercy" to decide if we can stay together or not. I'd change word "can't" to "won't" for accuracy. Then I'd make a better decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, catfeeder said: I'd change word "can't" to "won't" for accuracy. Then I'd make a better decision. Yeah, I guess you are right. By "can't" I mean I don't want to if it would be premature decision. What do you mean by a better decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfeeder Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, drdre said: Yeah, I guess you are right. By "can't" I mean I don't want to if it would be premature decision. What do you mean by a better decision? You can decide to exit the limbo of hovering, which, as you've noticed, won't change anything and will only keep you focused on trying to 'win', even while you build the kind resentments over time that could render that win unsatisfying IF you ever get it. Instead, I'd skip worrying about how premature MY decision might be and offer, instead, that since GF is the one on the fence, SHE can take what she knows of you and your history together and grapple with her own choices by herself. From there, you're free to move beyond limbo to develop your own life on your own terms, and if you don't hear from this woman again, then you'll know that your choice to move forward was NOT premature, it was necessary. If, on the other hand, she reaches out with a commitment to invest in a future together, then your choice was also not premature--it was a self respecting move to allow GF her own processing time, even while you made gains to dislodge yourself from stagnation. Head high, and learn what moving forward can mean for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greendots Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 46 minutes ago, drdre said: I like a lot of things about her (intellect, matureness, motivation, kindness, appearance, etc.) and I love her so I can't just put an end to it but at the same time I feel a little bit depending on her "mercy" to decide if we can stay together or not. So, you like a lot of things about her. But what makes her and this relationship so special? (Perhaps a way she makes you feel?) Why do you depend on her "mercy"? Don't you both have the same amount of say in your relationship? The reason I ask so many questions is because whilst you seem to feel very connected to her, are you really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, catfeeder said: You can decide to exit the limbo of hovering, which, as you've noticed, won't change anything and will only keep you focused on trying to 'win', even while you build the kind resentments over time that could render that win unsatisfying IF you ever get it. I do feel a little bit in limbo but only when she contacts me, I think. I haven't seen her in more than a week but she calls or texts me almost every day. 5 minutes ago, catfeeder said: Instead, I'd skip worrying about how premature MY decision might be and offer, instead, that since GF is the one on the fence, SHE can take what she knows of you and your history together and grapple with her own choices by herself. I told her that she was the one that was on the fence and wasn't sure about our future because of some things that bothered her but she still insisted that she was not the only "guilty" person in our relationship. It makes me really angry that she tries, at least according to my point of view, to drag me down and "share" the responsibility for the situation. 5 minutes ago, catfeeder said: From there, you're free to move beyond limbo to develop your own life on your own terms, and if you don't hear from this woman again, then you'll know that your choice to move forward was NOT premature, it was necessary. I try to not think about her and the relationship recently and act like it is over in my daily life. Maybe it is some kind of running away from reality to dampen the pain? 5 minutes ago, catfeeder said: If, on the other hand, she reaches out with a commitment to invest in a future together, then your choice was also not premature--it was a self respecting move to allow GF her own processing time, even while you made gains to dislodge yourself from stagnation. Head high, and learn what moving forward can mean for you. Great comparison of both options! Thank you for the encouraging words! P.S. For some reason I am allowed a certain number of posts per day, so I can't always answer in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 19, 2020 Author Share Posted December 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, greendots said: So, you like a lot of things about her. But what makes her and this relationship so special? (Perhaps a way she makes you feel?) I don't know really. Mabe my love for her? I just have the feeling. I can't say the relationship is so special, I mean it is not some extraordinary thing in the world. But still, she makes me fell good, calm (when not arguing, of course). 16 minutes ago, greendots said: Why do you depend on her "mercy"? Don't you both have the same amount of say in your relationship? I told that because she was the one not sure about our future because of some things that bothered her. So it is up to her to decide, I guess. 16 minutes ago, greendots said: The reason I ask so many questions is because whilst you seem to feel very connected to her, are you really? At least on an emotional level I am connected to her. We've had our times for these 2 years. We became close and got to know each other well (including families). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfeeder Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 51 minutes ago, drdre said: but she still insisted that she was not the only "guilty" person in our relationship. It makes me really angry that she tries, at least according to my point of view, to drag me down and "share" the responsibility for the situation. This is irrelevant stuff. There's no freedom in 'right' fighting. It's useless wheel-spinning for zero payoff. At some point, we each must step up to the role of 'the bad guy' in order to extricate ourselves from situations that offer no benefit. I'd quit trying to sell this woman on what you want her to think or feel or believe. If that puts you on her villain list for a time, then so be it--it's just a distraction to keep you spinning with her instead of riding that misery-go-round all by herself. I'd quit responding to contact beyond telling her that you're letting her figure out where she wants to stand on her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greendots Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 8 hours ago, drdre said: I don't know really. Mabe my love for her? I just have the feeling. I can't say the relationship is so special, I mean it is not some extraordinary thing in the world. But still, she makes me fell good, calm (when not arguing, of course). 9 hours ago, drdre said: At least on an emotional level I am connected to her. We've had our times for these 2 years. We became close and got to know each other well (including families). Okay. We could dig deeper with questions like How does she make you feel good?, How so do you connect with her on an emotional level?, etc. It all boils down to this: Do you accept her for who she's today? If you're willing to do that, you're accepting the fact that she'll not be cool about those television shows you watch and all that other stuff hashed out in earlier posts. Meaning, no more complaining about her attitude towards all that. Instead, have a pro-active attitude like compromising. For example: You will not watch nor discuss shows she dislikes with her, but you have the freedom to watch them in your own time. 9 hours ago, drdre said: I told that because she was the one not sure about our future because of some things that bothered her. So it is up to her to decide, I guess. Certainly! It's up to her to accept you for who you are. It's also up to her if she's willing to meet you halfway in some of the areas you're not seeing eye to eye. I reckon, you've got plenty to think about. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 16 hours ago, catfeeder said: This is irrelevant stuff. There's no freedom in 'right' fighting. It's useless wheel-spinning for zero payoff. At some point, we each must step up to the role of 'the bad guy' in order to extricate ourselves from situations that offer no benefit. Does that mean that I accept the role of "the bad guy" in order to free myself from the burden of the situation? Like - "you're right, I am the guilty one" and then don't care if it's true or not? Or am I interpreting that incorrectly? 16 hours ago, catfeeder said: I'd quit trying to sell this woman on what you want her to think or feel or believe. If that puts you on her villain list for a time, then so be it--it's just a distraction to keep you spinning with her instead of riding that misery-go-round all by herself. Does that mean that I should ignore her to some point in order to not get dragged down in this "spinning wheel" and let her be miserable as much as she wishes to? 16 hours ago, catfeeder said: I'd quit responding to contact beyond telling her that you're letting her figure out where she wants to stand on her own. I was thinking of something similar recently. I feel that it is somehow unfair that while she isn't sure about our future, doesn't like some of the differences between us and so on, she continues to contact me and that way it is easier for her, because she doesn't have to manage the situation on her own - like she's got the best of both worlds. I pointed that thing to her but she told me that she was calling and texting me to discuss things and that way the situation would become more clear for her, i.e. the calls/texts were for the purpose of improving/repairing the relationship and she would benefit from them. I couldn't tell her to text or call me only if she'd made up her mind about our future although I really wanted to. I felt sorry for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdre Posted December 20, 2020 Author Share Posted December 20, 2020 8 hours ago, greendots said: Okay. We could dig deeper with questions like How does she make you feel good?, How so do you connect with her on an emotional level?, etc. I will be really troubled to dig so deep down Maybe that's a big homework for me. 8 hours ago, greendots said: It all boils down to this: Do you accept her for who she's today? If you're willing to do that, you're accepting the fact that she'll not be cool about those television shows you watch and all that other stuff hashed out in earlier posts. Meaning, no more complaining about her attitude towards all that. Instead, have a pro-active attitude like compromising. For example: You will not watch nor discuss shows she dislikes with her, but you have the freedom to watch them in your own time. The last thing is what I wanted. I never wanted us to share my liking about these tv shows, for example. I accept her not being cool about them but I don't want to be judged for watching them. I am pro-compromising and I want nothing more than being able to watch them in my own time. The same is valid for my free time - I liked being outside with friends while not being constantly critisized that I wasn't reading the book that would repair our relationship magically somehow (she said that by choosing to spend time outside instead of reading the book I didn't care about our relationship). 8 hours ago, greendots said: Certainly! It's up to her to accept you for who you are. It's also up to her if she's willing to meet you halfway in some of the areas you're not seeing eye to eye. According to her she's made a lot of efforts in the past two years to be more flexible and compromising and it turned out that I didn't appreciate that... I still can't see where exactly I am making mistakes. 8 hours ago, greendots said: I reckon, you've got plenty to think about. 🙂 I feel like the whole world is on my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfeeder Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, drdre said: Does that mean that I accept the role of "the bad guy" in order to free myself from the burden of the situation? Like - "you're right, I am the guilty one" and then don't care if it's true or not? Or am I interpreting that incorrectly? No. You don't need to say she's right. You can just tell her that you're not going to fight her perceptions. You respect the fact that she gets to choose the lens through which she views you and your behaviors over the last 2 years. Quote Does that mean that I should ignore her to some point in order to not get dragged down in this "spinning wheel" and let her be miserable as much as she wishes to? You don't need to ignore as in 'ghost.' You can explain that you adore her and that's why you're 'in' for a future together, but it's also why you're walking away while you both still think highly of one another--to preserve any future potential before eroding it with useless arguments. She gets to take all the time she needs to reflect and decide where she wants to stand. If she ever decides that she wants a commitment with you for a shared future, she can let you know. If you're still available then, maybe you can meet to catch up. Otherwise, you wish her the best. Quote I was thinking of something similar recently. I feel that it is somehow unfair that while she isn't sure about our future, doesn't like some of the differences between us and so on, she continues to contact me and that way it is easier for her, because she doesn't have to manage the situation on her own - like she's got the best of both worlds. I pointed that thing to her but she told me that she was calling and texting me to discuss things and that way the situation would become more clear for her, i.e. the calls/texts were for the purpose of improving/repairing the relationship and she would benefit from them. I couldn't tell her to text or call me only if she'd made up her mind about our future although I really wanted to. I felt sorry for her. Well, nobody here can force you to do what you are unwilling to do. Either you're tired of engaging the wheel spins, or you're not. When you reach that point, you can use some ideas offered above to explain why you're shutting down the contact in order to allow her reflection on the last 2 years, but you see no value in drilling into the same old arguments. You get that your self-entitled ditching of self control while driving is unacceptable--for anyone--and you'll consider anger management or other avenues of help to learn how to mature-up in that area. Otherwise, you'll eat, drink, watch TV or otherwise live as you wish, and you don't intend to accept nagging over those things. She gets to decide whether your love for one another is enough to sustain a mutual investment in a shared future, or not. If not, you want to start to your healing process now, and you're offering her the opportunity to reflect and decide where she wants to stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiseman2 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, drdre said: to discuss things and that way the situation would become more clear for her, i.e. the calls/texts were for the purpose of improving/repairing the relationship and she would benefit from them. Doesn't it get exhausting "improving and repairing the relationship" constantly, alternating with debates about everything else under the sun? Why can't you for yourself decide how you want to spend your time, your life, your energy? Unless you also enjoy chronic debating and fixing and rehashing and rhetoric, why bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batya33 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 hours ago, drdre said: Does that mean that I accept the role of "the bad guy" in order to free myself from the burden of the situation? Like - "you're right, I am the guilty one" and then don't care if it's true or not? Or am I interpreting that incorrectly? Does that mean that I should ignore her to some point in order to not get dragged down in this "spinning wheel" and let her be miserable as much as she wishes to? I was thinking of something similar recently. I feel that it is somehow unfair that while she isn't sure about our future, doesn't like some of the differences between us and so on, she continues to contact me and that way it is easier for her, because she doesn't have to manage the situation on her own - like she's got the best of both worlds. I pointed that thing to her but she told me that she was calling and texting me to discuss things and that way the situation would become more clear for her, i.e. the calls/texts were for the purpose of improving/repairing the relationship and she would benefit from them. I couldn't tell her to text or call me only if she'd made up her mind about our future although I really wanted to. I felt sorry for her. I think partly you feel sorry for her and partly you don't want to assert yourself because passivity is easier. Tell her that you've determined none of her issues are within your control, you have told her all you know, you are not her parent or therapist and you choose to take care of you - so to take care of yourself at this point you're asking her not to contact unless she is committed to being together and at that time if you're still interested and available you'll consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boltnrun Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Both of you want the other one to be someone they're not. That is not the basis for a successful relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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