My girlfriend is not sure about our future together

[drdre]

48 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

So basically she is a control freak who will tell you what you can and cannot watch and do and get mad if you don't comply. She will also use emotions to guilt trip you and manipulate you. Meanwhile, you are calling her "sensitive" in order to excuse and justify her inexcusable and quite frankly unhinged behavior. Sorry to be blunt, but good grief. The more you write, the more I cringe. How are you tolerating being treated like this? This isn't some hippie liberal chic thing, this is just plain old toxic.

I am still puzzled and angry at this thing with the TV preferences, I even told a friend of mine and he got shocked. Yeah, murder investigations are probably not the best thing a man can watch, but I liked the resolution and justice at the end (I am not watching it anymore, it was a temporary hobby of mine for several months). I don't know how am I tolerating it. I didn't comply with her wishes but they made me angry nonetheless, I felt restrained.

48 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

Also, why is she in therapy? Does she have a mental illness or some other personal disorder or issue she is dealing with? It's one thing to go to a therapist because you have real issues you are trying to work through. However, it's not normal to have a therapist on speed dial to "work on your relationship" while using that as emotional blackmail on your SO - "look at me and how hard I'm working on this relationship and how dare you have interests outside of ME!" This is the definition of insanity and whatever she is doing in therapy, assuming she isn't blowing smoke at you, sure isn't working.

She went into therapy after having that medical problem. Later it transformed into her helping "crutch" to deal with everyday issues and personal improvement (including her discussing our relationship, without me, of course). She was going twice a week and was giving tons of money to her therapist. She doesn't have a mental illness or something like that. The summer counceling was with another therapist and we were both participating. But you told it almost literally: "I am spending lots of money and time improving myself and the relationship by reading books and doing therapy while you don't want to read some books and are always out with friends, it is unfair". Speaking of books - I read couple of books on the topic that she "recommended" me. The last one I started after she reminded me several times to read it and I was very annoyed (although I really procrastinated for couple of months before reading it, which made her angry, because our relationship was on the brink of breaking apart and I had to read the book ASAP, like it will magically transform the relationship and everything will be fine again).

48 minutes ago, DancingFool said:

What's concerning is that you don't seem to be able to see how absolutely nuts this whole situation is and how controlling this woman is. I'm equally struck by how far you are willing to flex in order to be understanding while labeling yourself as a "hater" while she is the actual hater who is labeling herself as "liberal". Blue is spot on that you have the labels backwards. 

In a nutshell, the more you disclose about your relationship, the more toxic the picture becomes. Don't confuse a strong woman with controlling.

Honestly, I am now confused about this. I don't want to put all the blame on her and all the negative things. And I may haven't got experience with toxic issues like this so I don't know what to do.

[drdre]

12 minutes ago, bluecastle said:

I think we, as people, occasionally course correct a bit too much as lessons get metabolized. Like: we eat fast food for 4 years, learn the downsides, and then spend a few years nibbling on kale stems in order to, eventually, find the right balance for our sincerest, most authentic selves. Or, less metaphorically: I get the impression that, maybe, you were drawn to her/this as a way of putting those past lessons "to use," but are now seeing some of the shortcomings to that. 

Which I suppose is a fine segue to your question: What I meant—sorry, still figuring out the quote feature here!—is that maybe you both needed each other for a time, that you were drawn to each other (consciously or otherwise) because you (you both) saw the potential of some growth. So, she nudged you here, you nudged her there—lovely!  But there's a not-so-fine line between the occasional nudging that leads to husk shedding, and what you're describing here: rubbing, friction, static, perhaps a toxic aftertaste in each of your throats.   

You write about her with a lot of respect. But from these seats, you are describing someone who is prone to weaponizing insecurities, taking aim at another's shins (yours) in order to gain a false, fleeting sense of self-security. This doesn't work, ever, hence it becomes a loop, and instead of continuing to grow up and outward, you (you both) risk wilting, kind of like a plant that does well in one corner, and in one pot, for a bit, before showing signs of sickness. 

Whether any of that resonates as applicable here—well, I'll let you decide.

That explanation is great, thank you! I am really sad about the situation, I didn't want our relationship to get to this point. She really has insecurities in different areas of life and I have always thought that she somehow compensates for them with being highly motivated in professional area, for example. At the same time she has a lot of issues with family communication, her appearance, being judged by others and so on.

[drdre]

38 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I don't think it's appropriate to ask her for money since you're not married and the money is not toward a common purchase -for example if you were planning to travel together and she wanted to go to a more expensive place than you then she could put in more $ than you.  Or buying a home together might mean one of you pays more depending on income.  You're not a family with her.  You're boyfriend and girlfriend and you don't share financial obligations like rent or mortgage.  my husband sometimes drives too fast IMO.  We have a child.  I would not be comfortable if he drove aggressively given that we have a child.  Do you plan to have a child who would ride in your car? Then I'd change my driving style.

I don't think you two are well matched it seems.  I'm sorry!!

We were talking about the time when we (hypothetically) would be a family. While you said home - she's bought an apartment which is under construction now and she plans to pay the mortgage for less time by giving almost half of her salary every month. Which I just can't share technically, another problem for me... I do want a child and I will make sure it is safe (if I happen to have one in the future). Last sentence is maybe true, I am sad.

[DancingFool]

It's not about placing blame, but rather recognizing what is and isn't normal so to speak.

In a healthy relationship with the right woman, she'll make popcorn and curl up next to you to watch those shows. There is NOTHING wrong with enjoying watching them and the fact that you seem to now think that maybe it's not right.....kind of goes to how badly her reactions and controlling attitudes have actually affected you mentally and emotionally. Murder investigations, murder mysteries are some of the most popular genres out there. There is NOTHING wrong with taking an interest in that. A normal woman, even if she isn't into those shows, will simply go do something else while you watch instead of attacking your choices and telling you that there is something wrong with you for liking that.

Regarding the therapy.....going for emotional support while facing a health crisis all normal. However.....instead of jumping for joy that the tumor was benign, she is now placing blame on you for her operation now that all is well.... like seriously....wth? This on top of her twice a week therapy? What is she doing in there? Now she is going to "fix" your relationship and put a gun to your head to either read her books or else..... What you should do is show her the door instead of rushing to do what she wants while angry and resentful. You are feeling that way because what you are dealing with is bat shaite crazy behavior. Still, the correct response isn't to resent and then comply, but rather stand up for yourself and get rid of the person causing these issues.

This relationship sounds almost like you are letting her beat you up as some kind of penance for past sins. Dude.....be better than that and leave already. What you do with toxic is you walk away. When you write things like "she wrote up in her workbook" with a straight face....it's time to run for the hills and rethink what is and isn't healthy behavior in a partner. This....what you are going through is a good example of what you don't want ever in a partner.

[drdre]

1 hour ago, DancingFool said:

It's not about placing blame, but rather recognizing what is and isn't normal so to speak.

This is one of the things that confuses me, what is and what isn't normal. I want to present the case as properly as I can but I am inherently subjective.

1 hour ago, DancingFool said:

In a healthy relationship with the right woman, she'll make popcorn and curl up next to you to watch those shows. There is NOTHING wrong with enjoying watching them and the fact that you seem to now think that maybe it's not right.....kind of goes to how badly her reactions and controlling attitudes have actually affected you mentally and emotionally. Murder investigations, murder mysteries are some of the most popular genres out there. There is NOTHING wrong with taking an interest in that. A normal woman, even if she isn't into those shows, will simply go do something else while you watch instead of attacking your choices and telling you that there is something wrong with you for liking that.

I really enjoyed watching these series for several months and then I lost interest, I'd had enough of them and they weren't interesting to me anymore. Just a temporary TV preference. What made me angry is her telling me that this is a bad thing and a man should not fill his head with such murders and horrors because they are negative and one has to avoid negative things in life. Which is BS, of course, because you can never avoid negative things happening in life. Of course, watching such programs was my choice which implies that it could be avoided if I were her. But such movies don't make my life negative because I am not bothered by them at all while she is very emotional and negative things control her mood a lot, she can't cope well with them.

1 hour ago, DancingFool said:

Regarding the therapy.....going for emotional support while facing a health crisis all normal. However.....instead of jumping for joy that the tumor was benign, she is now placing blame on you for her operation now that all is well.... like seriously....wth? This on top of her twice a week therapy? What is she doing in there? Now she is going to "fix" your relationship and put a gun to your head to either read her books or else..... What you should do is show her the door instead of rushing to do what she wants while angry and resentful. You are feeling that way because what you are dealing with is bat shaite crazy behavior. Still, the correct response isn't to resent and then comply, but rather stand up for yourself and get rid of the person causing these issues.

I was telling her the exact same thing - "instead of being extremely happy that everything is fine, you are making me guilty of pressuring you to get the surgery". The summer after the operation (2019) I was attacked several times about that. We were on a holiday and when putting her swimsuit in the hotel room she started to look at the mirror and broke into tears. She hated the surgery scar (she was wondering what other people will think of it) and the fact that one of her breasts was now a little bit smaller than the other one. She regretted undergoing surgery because of that and I was accused of putting pressure on her to do it quicker. Honestly, this blaming is long gone now but there have been couple of times when she mentioned it. I forgot to mention an interesting fact - she told her family about the surgery more than a year later because she didn't want to bother them at the time. She explained to me that they would be very worried and she didn't want to cause them a big concern. On top of that, she didn't want me to take her to the hospital, let alone wait her there while the surgery was being made. She told me she is afraid and worried and didn't want anybody to be there, she would be more calm if she manages it by herself. I felt like I was not part of a couple...

1 hour ago, DancingFool said:

This relationship sounds almost like you are letting her beat you up as some kind of penance for past sins. Dude.....be better than that and leave already. What you do with toxic is you walk away. When you write things like "she wrote up in her workbook" with a straight face....it's time to run for the hills and rethink what is and isn't healthy behavior in a partner. This....what you are going through is a good example of what you don't want ever in a partner.

The notebook (my mistake with that "workbook") was used by her to write down things and make some exercises taken from a book or from the counceling. She bought a notebook for me, too, and wanted to make these things together or gave them as a homework for me. Some of them were interesting, I have to say, but I never got the mood to do them thoroughly.

[DancingFool]

Well....you say that you are confused about what is and is not normal but.....you then continue on with a very rational reaction and explanation on how you also didn't see her behavior as OK.

I guess the most glaringly obvious is that when you have to resort to counseling, therapy, self help books, and workbooks to somehow "glue" your relationship together.....that's your big clue that this is not the right person or the right relationship by any stretch of imagination.

When you feel angry and frustrated or attacked by your partner in what you know (don't lie to yourself, because you do know) are unfair or unreasonable demands or accusations, then that's your clue that your relationship is actually toxic.

When you share some of your issues with a friend or even a stranger and they are shocked....that's a glaring flashing neon sign to you that your relationship is toxic or not OK. Even worse is when you reach a point where you find yourself afraid or too embarrassed to share with others what's happening because deep down you know that your friends or family are going to be shocked and demand you get out of this relationship. 

Anyway, this relationship sounds like it's filled with major conflict, strife, drama, control issues, etc. and some part of you seems to enjoy that for whatever reason. You find it interesting on some level. Personally, I can think of a million ways to learn something new or step out of my comfort zone that doesn't involve warring with my SO or dealing with a control freak who puts me down or attacks me or is otherwise selfish and self centered. At some point you've got to start being honest with yourself and figure out what is attracting you to strife and drama and this kind of a lop sided relationship.

 

[Tinydance]

Just to me personally it seems like maybe you and your girlfriend are just too different. The driving thing though would be off putting to me and I wouldn't like it either. My ex-fiance had anger issues and got angry while driving and it's a red flag to me. To be honest I don't think anyone really would want to date an aggressive driver so I think you really need to work on that.

Regarding the money situation. If you have a job then I don't think you necessarily have to "better yourself" and get a higher paying job just for her. If she wants a traditional gender role relationship where the man earns more than the woman, then she can find another guy who earns more. It's not fair to tell someone to change their job to suit themselves.

Regarding paying bills when going out though, my personal belief is that it needs to be 50/50 most of the time. So I'm not actually into gender roles myself. I believe men and women should both contribute to bills equally. With my male ex's I used to either pay half/half or take turns paying. I don't think it's right of you to ask her to cover whole bills, unless sometimes you also paid for the whole bill. If you don't want to go out too much to restaurants and those kinds of things due to cost, the best solution would be that you just don't go. If she loves going out then sometimes she could go out with friends or family instead.

Keep in mind though that if she wants a certain kind of man, who has a higher paying job, goes out a lot, reads self-help books and goes to therapy - that is not actually you. Not the real you anyway - she wants you to actually be someone else. You shouldn't have to drastically change for anybody so maybe this relationship is just not compatible.

For me personally it wouldn't suit me to date someone who always wants to solve our relationship issues by reading books and talking to the therapist twice a week. If the issue is something really serious and we can't solve it together then sure, we could go to therapy. Other than that I believe that relationships should be more natural. You should first of all work on issues yourself just by being open and having good communication. To me it seems pressured and kind of "fake" to keep turning to books and a therapist. Especially considering that the therapist wouldn't know one of the partners (unless they went together) so is only hearing one side of the story. For your girlfriend though this approach is the one she prefers. I wouldn't like it myself. So again, that's a big incompatibility in my opinion.

 

[SherrySher]

14 hours ago, drdre said:

I really don't understand the point of being a family and sharing your life with somebody but keep your money. I am not saying that you should misuse the budget but if everybody hides his money in his pocket, what a couple would this be? I would gladly place my money at home so if somebody needs it

I think you're misunderstanding me. I am again talking about a married couple versus dating. If you and her are married, then yes, money shared.

But if you are only dating, then no, it's not a legal contract, you are roommates and no money is shared.

Again, this is my opinion, but if she is still only a girlfriend, it is no where near the same as a wife.

[Wiseman2]

12 hours ago, drdre said:

". The summer after the operation (2019) I was attacked several times about that.  

. She bought a notebook for me, too, and wanted to make these things together or gave them as a homework for me. 

A couple of thoughts on this. If she's unhappy with the biopsy results, she can talk to her breast surgeon, talk to a plastic surgeon about a revision,or talk to an attorney if she believes she was not properly informed or there were damages.

You are not responsible for what biopsy scar there is. She's the one who signed an informed consent and chose to have it done.

Doing therapy "homework" together constantly that she brings home from her therapist is a bit over the top. 

It's almost like she is trying to drag you into her own mental health issues in an almost folie a deux manner.

 

[drdre]

12 hours ago, DancingFool said:

Well....you say that you are confused about what is and is not normal but.....you then continue on with a very rational reaction and explanation on how you also didn't see her behavior as OK.

I didn't see some of her behaviour as OK and that's what makes me think what is normal and what is not (if there is anything "normal" in this world at all ). I question myself if I really have reasons for thinking X or Y is not normal or am I biased somehow? I am just trying to come to some conclusion.

12 hours ago, DancingFool said:

I guess the most glaringly obvious is that when you have to resort to counseling, therapy, self help books, and workbooks to somehow "glue" your relationship together.....that's your big clue that this is not the right person or the right relationship by any stretch of imagination.

Aren't these things a helpful way to manage relationship problems or it depends on how big the problems are? It was my first time going to counceling.

12 hours ago, DancingFool said:

When you feel angry and frustrated or attacked by your partner in what you know (don't lie to yourself, because you do know) are unfair or unreasonable demands or accusations, then that's your clue that your relationship is actually toxic.

I really want to be sure that I know these things are unfair and unreasonable but I am leaving a small percentage of a possibility that I may be wrong (at least a little bit) and I am trying to accept that everybody has the right for an opinion. What makes me angry is that opinion being imposed on me, I guess.

12 hours ago, DancingFool said:

When you share some of your issues with a friend or even a stranger and they are shocked....that's a glaring flashing neon sign to you that your relationship is toxic or not OK. Even worse is when you reach a point where you find yourself afraid or too embarrassed to share with others what's happening because deep down you know that your friends or family are going to be shocked and demand you get out of this relationship. 

My friend was shocked when I told him about some of this stuff but we both brushed it off with a "she's crazy" excuse which seemed reasonable, I suppose we were not right to do it?

12 hours ago, DancingFool said:

Anyway, this relationship sounds like it's filled with major conflict, strife, drama, control issues, etc. and some part of you seems to enjoy that for whatever reason. You find it interesting on some level. Personally, I can think of a million ways to learn something new or step out of my comfort zone that doesn't involve warring with my SO or dealing with a control freak who puts me down or attacks me or is otherwise selfish and self centered. At some point you've got to start being honest with yourself and figure out what is attracting you to strife and drama and this kind of a lop sided relationship.

 

Honestly, I don't enjoy this conflict and drama at all, I just try to think of ways to improve the situation because I don't want to make rash decisions. I agree that I have to be honest and figure out what exactly keeps me in this situation, that's why I came here and I am very grateful to you and the other posters!

[SherrySher]

32 minutes ago, drdre said:

My friend was shocked when I told him about some of this stuff but we both brushed it off with a "she's crazy" excuse which seemed reasonable, I suppose we were not right to do it?

First, is your friend in a relationship? Secondly, is his relationship a marriage that has lasted many years and is a happy one? If you can answer 'yes' to these questions, then he might have a decent opinion on the situation. But it's not entirely the whole picture as there are two sides to every story and he hasn't heard her side for a totally fair assessment.

However, if you answered 'no' to at least one of my questions, then not sure if this guy knows what he's talking about or if he is the one to be talking to.

Talk to someone who is happy and has a strong and happy relationship. A successful long term relationship means they know what they're talking about and how to make things work with someone. 

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, SherrySher said:

First, is your friend in a relationship? Secondly, is his relationship a marriage that has lasted many years and is a happy one? If you can answer 'yes' to these questions, then he might have a decent opinion on the situation. But it's not entirely the whole picture as there are two sides to every story and he hasn't heard her side for a totally fair assessment.

However, if you answered 'no' to at least one of my questions, then not sure if this guy knows what he's talking about or if he is the one to be talking to.

Talk to someone who is happy and has a strong and happy relationship. A successful long term relationship means they know what they're talking about and how to make things work with someone. 

Even if you find someone in a long happy marriage I'd take all such input with a grain of salt -two grains perhaps.  Other than going to extremes it's all very individual.  I would go to a trusted third party -like a professional counselor or religious figure you trust if you follow the same religion, etc.

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, SherrySher said:

First, is your friend in a relationship? Secondly, is his relationship a marriage that has lasted many years and is a happy one? If you can answer 'yes' to these questions, then he might have a decent opinion on the situation. But it's not entirely the whole picture as there are two sides to every story and he hasn't heard her side for a totally fair assessment.

However, if you answered 'no' to at least one of my questions, then not sure if this guy knows what he's talking about or if he is the one to be talking to.

Talk to someone who is happy and has a strong and happy relationship. A successful long term relationship means they know what they're talking about and how to make things work with someone. 

Even if you find someone in a long happy marriage I'd take all such input with a grain of salt -two grains perhaps.  Other than going to extremes it's all very individual.  I would go to a trusted third party -like a professional counselor or religious figure you trust if you follow the same religion, etc.

[drdre]

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Just to me personally it seems like maybe you and your girlfriend are just too different. The driving thing though would be off putting to me and I wouldn't like it either. My ex-fiance had anger issues and got angry while driving and it's a red flag to me. To be honest I don't think anyone really would want to date an aggressive driver so I think you really need to work on that.

We've already discussed with her many times that we seem to be different, but I don't know how much of a difference is enough to be a deal-breaker. About driving - I agree with you.

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Regarding the money situation. If you have a job then I don't think you necessarily have to "better yourself" and get a higher paying job just for her. If she wants a traditional gender role relationship where the man earns more than the woman, then she can find another guy who earns more. It's not fair to tell someone to change their job to suit themselves.

I do have a job which I like a lot. I have a master's degree in electrical engineering but my salary is right at the average for my city, while hers is more than twice mine. I don't know if she wants a traditional gender role relationship for the sake of it. She thinks that if I have a family and I want to have enough money not just to live but to be able to afford additional things (gadgets, travels, etc.) I have to aim for a higher-paid job and that would be a sign of motivation and manliness. She says she's had many struggles in her life and she was able to secure her current job by being motivated and persistent so if I am not like that, it will not be "fair".

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Regarding paying bills when going out though, my personal belief is that it needs to be 50/50 most of the time. So I'm not actually into gender roles myself. I believe men and women should both contribute to bills equally. With my male ex's I used to either pay half/half or take turns paying. I don't think it's right of you to ask her to cover whole bills, unless sometimes you also paid for the whole bill. If you don't want to go out too much to restaurants and those kinds of things due to cost, the best solution would be that you just don't go. If she loves going out then sometimes she could go out with friends or family instead.

I am paying the whole bill in maybe 2/3 of the time. I asked her to cover whole bills in a response to her saying that we should go frequently to restaurants (which I am not able to afford and don't want to).

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

Keep in mind though that if she wants a certain kind of man, who has a higher paying job, goes out a lot, reads self-help books and goes to therapy - that is not actually you. Not the real you anyway - she wants you to actually be someone else. You shouldn't have to drastically change for anybody so maybe this relationship is just not compatible.

I wat thinking the same. I want to be loved and appreciated for what I am. One evolves and changes through the years but not forcefully, I am not a clay statue to be molded.

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

For me personally it wouldn't suit me to date someone who always wants to solve our relationship issues by reading books and talking to the therapist twice a week. If the issue is something really serious and we can't solve it together then sure, we could go to therapy. Other than that I believe that relationships should be more natural. You should first of all work on issues yourself just by being open and having good communication. To me it seems pressured and kind of "fake" to keep turning to books and a therapist. Especially considering that the therapist wouldn't know one of the partners (unless they went together) so is only hearing one side of the story. For your girlfriend though this approach is the one she prefers. I wouldn't like it myself. So again, that's a big incompatibility in my opinion.

Agree, I am open and honest to her and I don't keep secrets. I am what I am and I don't want to be judged so much.

13 hours ago, Tinydance said:

 

 

[drdre]

8 hours ago, SherrySher said:

I think you're misunderstanding me. I am again talking about a married couple versus dating. If you and her are married, then yes, money shared.

But if you are only dating, then no, it's not a legal contract, you are roommates and no money is shared.

Again, this is my opinion, but if she is still only a girlfriend, it is no where near the same as a wife.

Yes, I was talking about when we would be a family together, not for the current moment. We were discussing the future.

[drdre]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

A couple of thoughts on this. If she's unhappy with the biopsy results, she can talk to her breast surgeon, talk to a plastic surgeon about a revision,or talk to an attorney if she believes she was not properly informed or there were damages.

You are not responsible for what biopsy scar there is. She's the one who signed an informed consent and chose to have it done.

Doing therapy "homework" together constantly that she brings home from her therapist is a bit over the top. 

It's almost like she is trying to drag you into her own mental health issues in an almost folie a deux manner.

 

She was unhappy with the scar itself - that means "holy sh*t, there's a big scar there (<how surprising? this thing cannot be avoided>), it's ugly, what will now people say"... There isn't any damage, the surgery was perfect in medical point of view (it was not a biopsy but a full-scale surgery) but the tissue removed was not so small one so it was inevitable that the breast would be a little smaller than the other. According to me it's not the end of the world but I don't know how women accept such a "misfortune", I guess they are more concerned for their appearance than men are. 

I am not responsible for the scar but she made me guilty of pressuring her to undergo the operation that led to this outcome.

We weren't doing therapy homework from her therapist. It was a case where she'd read a book and had found some good exercises in it and wanted us to do them in order to improve our relationship and self-awareness. She frequently discovers new things in books and webinars as well as in therapy and she is "proud" that she is on a path to improvement for the last several years (before even meeting me) because she feels it is an area of her life that is not well developed. While she is intelligent and with a good job, she's told me that she has difficulties in the area of personal relationships (dating, family, friends) and that's what she wants to develop and takes it as a mission. I am dragged into this mission, too, it seems.

[drdre]

2 hours ago, SherrySher said:

First, is your friend in a relationship? Secondly, is his relationship a marriage that has lasted many years and is a happy one? If you can answer 'yes' to these questions, then he might have a decent opinion on the situation. But it's not entirely the whole picture as there are two sides to every story and he hasn't heard her side for a totally fair assessment.

However, if you answered 'no' to at least one of my questions, then not sure if this guy knows what he's talking about or if he is the one to be talking to.

Talk to someone who is happy and has a strong and happy relationship. A successful long term relationship means they know what they're talking about and how to make things work with someone. 

My friend is single. You are right, he is presented with my point of view. But I think that telling someone that your girlfriend doesn't want you to watch certain TV genres is not something that needs much clarification in order to have an opinion, single or married, is it?

[SherrySher]

1 hour ago, Batya33 said:

Even if you find someone in a long happy marriage I'd take all such input with a grain of salt -two grains perhaps.  Other than going to extremes it's all very individual.  I would go to a trusted third party -like a professional counselor or religious figure you trust if you follow the same religion, etc.

Opinions vary. I feel that not all counselors or religious figures can tell you from first hand experiences (especially religious figures). 

I stand by my advice, if they are a happy couple who have been married for a long time, they know how to make it work 😉 

[bluecastle]

1 hour ago, drdre said:

 I want to be loved and appreciated for what I am. One evolves and changes through the years but not forcefully, I am not a clay statue to be molded.

A very understandable thing to want, right here. Would you say this is how you feel, with her, right now? Would you say that this has been your dominant experience of love with her, and being loved by her, over a two year period? 

Also curious: Have you ever spoken to her like this, as you're speaking to us? 

 

[drdre]

1 hour ago, bluecastle said:

A very understandable thing to want, right here. Would you say this is how you feel, with her, right now? Would you say that this has been your dominant experience of love with her, and being loved by her, over a two year period? 

Also curious: Have you ever spoken to her like this, as you're speaking to us? 

 

I can say that this is how I have felt several times in the past two years. I have told her that I didn't realy feel appreciated and loved because of her not fully accepting me as I am (in my opinion) and trying to "correct" me. She has really tried to do her best and has accepted some of my weak points nevertheless so I was questioning myself if I was right to think that way - I did want her to accept me as I am but at the same time I was wondering if I am not exaggerating things and dramatizing too much. So it was some kind of a battle between me and me - do I want to be accepted fully (and is it possible at all?) or should I be more flexible and not so rigid and try to make some compromise?

I can't say that it has been the dominant experience but there have been different occasions in which these "little" things have left bitter taste to me.

We have spoken a lot of times about different issues and she is very talkative person. What do you mean by "Have you ever spoken to her like this, as you're speaking to us? "?

[Hollyj]

Why do you live with your parents?

 Why did you make her surgery about you?

I cannot fathom why you have not changed your driving style.   Seems like you are trying to keep control and are acting out.

 

I think you should be splitting that bill.

[bluecastle]

40 minutes ago, drdre said:

So it was some kind of a battle between me and me - do I want to be accepted fully (and is it possible at all?) or should I be more flexible and not so rigid and try to make some compromise?

Existential answer coming. I'm not sure any of us "fully accept" ourselves, at least not 24/7, in the sense that we're always getting to know more, evolving here, reckoning there, and so on. This is something beautiful about people—that we're constantly being exposed and better known, even to ourselves—if also very vulnerable. It's what allows us, occasionally, to be prone to internalize another's judgements as something we need to correct; sometimes means we've found someone who, directly or not, has found a way to poke at pieces of ourselves we're still struggling to get to know, and fully accept.   

That said, yes, of course it's possible to be accepted, more or less fully. You have friends, don't you? Do you feel accepted by them? Sure, they can probably list all sorts of things about you that they find annoying, places where they think you could mature or shift, and so on, but those qualities don't limit their acceptance of you or your feeling of being accepted. Maybe those qualities end up mutating, maybe not—all good. It should be, more or less, like that with a romantic partner. It's offering another person that grace and freedom that gives them the space to blossom—and makes for a relationship where two people have room to keep coming into themselves rather than feeling "restrained," as you put it earlier. Those tender spots are respected, not poked.  

Compromise is mandatory in life, in relationships. But it's different, quite different, than changing your fundamental nature. Might want to have a think on that, as I get the impression you've struggled to see the difference.

54 minutes ago, drdre said:

We have spoken a lot of times about different issues and she is very talkative person. What do you mean by "Have you ever spoken to her like this, as you're speaking to us? "?

Well, you've kind of answered this, in saying you've expressed frustration at feeling love from her is conditional on you changing to meet her (ever changing) operating system. Someone shouldn't really have to "try her best" to accept you, and vise versa. It's more like breathing than thinking, that. Yeah, there will be moments when someone acts in a way we don't "accept," and those moments may lead to some strife, but those should be the exception, not the rule, much the way we want our cars to start when we turn the key, only occasionally needing to pop the hood for some maintenance. If the hood is always being popped, you don't really go anywhere. 

Just my opinion, of course. 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, drdre said:

I am dragged into this mission, too, it seems.

Google "Folie à deux". This is when someone wants you to share and become part of whatever their mental health issues are.

The breast surgery. She sign an informed consent  (google it)form in order for them to do it. It is 100% her decision. 

[Rose Mosse]

I would not continue with the relationship for two major reasons: 1) differences while driving or staying calm (if this is a major issue) and 2) the third party complications with a counsellor. Both of you aren't on the same page about how you want to incorporate the advice of a third party into your relationship. 

I have a personal opinion about road rage in general especially with passengers as I was often on the receiving end or witness to a lot of it, sitting in the passenger side of a vehicle. I think it's worth revisiting if those reactions on the road or in shared activities together are not just habitual for you but also something simmering under the surface: a person may drive with supreme control and confidence (with quick reflexes) yet he or she isn't able to check his/her emotions when someone else doesn't do the same on the road. There's a total disconnect there between the application of driving and expectations on the road or being compassionate or driving defensively (key trick for staying out of accidents). 

I don't know if anyone's ever done up studies on the psychology of road rage or reactions while driving but after years being in the passenger seat of someone who has road rage, it's a very unnerving and disturbing situation seeing another person lose it behind the wheel. There's way too much capacity for loss of control and damage in a split second. Anyway, that's my small take on not being able to stay calm on the road or when I sense someone doesn't drive with care. Losing it on the road too often becomes an outlet for a lot of anger issues and resentments subconsciously built up in a person over time.

You are unhappy with your relationship but I'm getting the feeling that you're upset at the idea of being on your own. This woman isn't checking off your boxes and she's got one foot out the door, appears to dislike you and is afraid or nervous when she's around you. These are all emotions I'm pinpointing in your situation because emotions change and fuel thoughts and thought processes especially when people think about breaking up with their partner or ending a relationship. We think about how that person makes us feel, do they bring out the best or the worst of us, what overall effect that person has in our lives. You both appear to have an overall negative effect on each other. 

I think you should think carefully about the things she's told you about yourself and the next steps are simple: can you change to be what she wants or work out your differences in the relationship/are you both willing to see each others' point of view? 

When someone tells you they are unsure of you, I think you owe it to yourself whether you deserve to live in limbo or keep having to act as a doormat or supplicant to the other partner's demands. If you can't sense an equal effort or investment in the relationship this is already over. You may be in denial and she too. 

 

 

[Batya33]

3 hours ago, SherrySher said:

Opinions vary. I feel that not all counselors or religious figures can tell you from first hand experiences (especially religious figures). 

I stand by my advice, if they are a happy couple who have been married for a long time, they know how to make it work 😉 

I meant a total outsider- an objective third person as opposed to a friend who is commenting based on her relationship experience as opposed to professional experience.  Couples know how to make it work -individually -with each other -doesn't mean they have more general knowledge except in very general ways.  For example I don't choose to fight the hoarding/clutter battle because in our individual situation it's not worth it to me despite having to self-talk about it.  I'd never advise someone else to not choose to fight a battle of that level (meaning clutter or hygiene on the other hand is fairly significant to most people) even though it works for us. I could give general advice like "you have to weigh the risks-benefits and decide whether this battle is worth fighting").