Feeling used and abused

[boltnrun]

Well, the title of your thread is "Feeling used and abused".

 

Nothing wrong if that's your jam. You know exactly what you're signing up for by pursuing a relationship with this woman.

 

Good luck.

[Jas76]

Well, the title of your thread is "Feeling used and abused".

 

Nothing wrong if that's your jam. You know exactly what you're signing up for by pursuing a relationship with this woman.

 

Good luck.

 

I'm definitely not putting up with any more abuse, and intimacy it out of the question. So I'm just exploring whether there is something platonic, whilst keeping her at a safe distance, to consider.

[Jas76]

An interesting article:

 

https://www.helpguide.org/articles/mental-disorders/helping-someone-with-borderline-personality-disorder.htm

[MissCanuck]

Have you done the same amount of online research to find out what is up with you?

 

You're wasting an awful lot of time and emotional energy trying to find out if she has a personaltiy disorder. That would be time you could spend sorting yourself out. Because at the end of the day, this woman will disappear from your life. She's not going to hang around long when she figures out she can't repeatedly wipe her feet on you. She isn't going to want platonic, but that doesn't serve her purpose enough. She will find someone else to target, and you won't feel great being "friends" when you know she's playing some other man. So, all of these articles you keep digging up won't serve much purpose when she's not in the picture anymore.

 

But your own problems will still exist. That's where you need help.

[Wiseman2]

Sounds like a neutral response to avoid more arguing.

She's responded by saying that everyone is getting a bit emotional due to COVID-19, which I think is a major cop out.

[Wiseman2]

Shouldn't this thread be about helping you rather than the guessing games about her supposed diagnoses?

 

Yes, everyone can tell you she's crazy, whatever but that's not helpful.

An interesting article:

[boltnrun]

You keep diagnosing her with all these conditions yet you want to keep her in your life.

 

What do you think that says about you?

[Jas76]

Have you done the same amount of online research to find out what is up with you?

 

You're wasting an awful lot of time and emotional energy trying to find out if she has a personaltiy disorder. That would be time you could spend sorting yourself out. Because at the end of the day, this woman will disappear from your life. She's not going to hang around long when she figures out she can't repeatedly wipe her feet on you. She isn't going to want platonic, but that doesn't serve her purpose enough. She will find someone else to target, and you won't feel great being "friends" when you know she's playing some other man. So, all of these articles you keep digging up won't serve much purpose when she's not in the picture anymore.

 

But your own problems will still exist. That's where you need help.

 

I know what is up with me, hence the reason I'm engaging with therapy. I also know that I get lonely sometimes, and perhaps too easily attached to people. I am going to be far more selective going forward.

 

Yes, I think you're right regarding the platonic stuff, particularly as I don't think she has a hope in hell of finding someone 20 years younger than her to show any interest, and probably not even someone around her own age once they realise what that have got involved with, particularly if they have any sense, hence the reason she was single for a long time before she met me. Her explosive and manipulative behaviour in respect to her sexual agenda are somewhat indicative of this.

[Jas76]

Sounds like a neutral response to avoid more arguing.

 

That may play a part, but I think the main cause is an ego defence mechanism.

[Jas76]

Shouldn't this thread be about helping you rather than the guessing games about her supposed diagnoses?

 

Yes, everyone can tell you she's crazy, whatever but that's not helpful.

 

I've looked into it quite a bit as you can tell, and I know her far better than any psychologist or psychiatrist could, so it's an educated guess.

 

It's helpful to the extent of how best to deal with her, and whether I should give up and avoid her entirely. In other words, it's helping me make an informed decision.

[Jas76]

You keep diagnosing her with all these conditions yet you want to keep her in your life.

 

What do you think that says about you?

 

It says that I would like to treat people with mental health problems fairly, and not with feelings of prejudice. I think I'm out of my depth here though, as she's way too abusive and manipulative at times, and anything I say, no matter how good the intention is, that isn't received well usually leads to her becoming hostile, argumentative or manipulative.

[Wiseman2]

Does she want to continue chatting with you?

I know her far better than any psychologist or psychiatrist could

[MissCanuck]

I've looked into it quite a bit as you can tell, and I know her far better than any psychologist or psychiatrist could, so it's an educated guess.

 

If you have no formal background in psychiatry, it is absolutely not an educated guess. It's a guess based on very superficial information you Googled, about a woman you don't actually know that well. You are likely not familiar with the clinical diagnostic criteria of any personality disorder, unless you have access to academic, peer-reviewed materials and have experience in identifying, diagnosing, and treating mental health conditions. This isn't your case, is it?

 

You are enabling your own obsessive thinking here, man, and it's only keeping you stuck. This is the reason she honed in on you; she could detect your weaknesses a mile away. She knows exactly how to exploit them.

 

The only thing you can really do is not complain about it when she hurts you again. You're signing up for this if you continue to involve yourself with this person.

[Jas76]

Does she want to continue chatting with you?

 

Not sure. Not heard from her today. Seems my message regarding her emotional dysregulation hasn't gone down well at all.

[Wiseman2]

If she messages, try to keep it light and polite.

Not sure. Not heard from her today. Seems my message regarding her emotional dysregulation hasn't gone down well at all.

[Jas76]

If you have no formal background in psychiatry, it is absolutely not an educated guess. It's a guess based on very superficial information you Googled, about a woman you don't actually know that well. You are likely not familiar with the clinical diagnostic criteria of any personality disorder, unless you have access to academic, peer-reviewed materials and have experience in identifying, diagnosing, and treating mental health conditions. This isn't your case, is it?

 

You are enabling your own obsessive thinking here, man, and it's only keeping you stuck. This is the reason she honed in on you; she could detect your weaknesses a mile away. She knows exactly how to exploit them.

 

The only thing you can really do is not complain about it when she hurts you again. You're signing up for this if you continue to involve yourself with this person.

 

Agreed, I have no clinical background, but it does seem that she has all the signs and symptoms that fit the diagnostic criteria:

 

F60.30 Impulsive type

 

At least three of the following must be present, one of which must be (2):

 

1. marked tendency to act unexpectedly and without consideration of the consequences;

2. marked tendency to engage in quarrelsome behavior and to have conflicts with others, especially when impulsive acts are thwarted or criticized;

3. liability to outbursts of anger or violence, with inability to control the resulting behavioral explosions;

4. difficulty in maintaining any course of action that offers no immediate reward;

5. unstable and capricious (impulsive, whimsical) mood.

 

F60.31 Borderline type

 

At least three of the symptoms mentioned in F60.30 Impulsive type must be present [see above], with at least two of the following in addition:

 

1. disturbances in and uncertainty about self-image, aims, and internal preferences;

2. liability to become involved in intense and unstable relationships, often leading to emotional crisis;

3. excessive efforts to avoid abandonment;

4. recurrent threats or acts of self-harm;

5. chronic feelings of emptiness;

6. demonstrates impulsive behavior, e.g., speeding in a car or substance abuse.[86]

 

The ICD-10 also describes some general criteria that define what is considered a personality disorder.

 

The best method is to present the criteria of the disorder to a person and to ask them if they feel that these characteristics accurately describe them.

 

Manipulative behavior to obtain nurturance is considered by the DSM-IV-TR and many mental health professionals to be a defining characteristic of borderline personality disorder.

 

An unstable family environment predicts the development of the disorder.

 

Source:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

 

In my humble opinion, she has at least three of the symptoms mentioned in F60.30 (impulsiveness, quarrelsome behavior and to have conflicts with others, especially when impulsive acts are thwarted or criticized, liability to outbursts of anger or violence, with inability to control the resulting behavioral explosions, unstable and capricious (impulsive, whimsical) mood).

 

Her impulsive behaviour is as described (alcohol abuse and binge eating, wanting to stay with nearly a complete stranger for a month etc.).

 

She also has the childhood trauma, both in terms of sexual abuse and neglect.

 

She clearly has a history of unstable relationships and abandonment.

 

A psychiatrist has diagnosed her with depression, anxiety and posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), all of which are co-morbid conditions, and even form the basis of misdiagnosis (see the Wikipedia page).

 

She also fits the profile with her manipulative behaviour.

 

When one considers all that, you can clearly see there is an argument that she suffers from BPD.

 

Yes, the hurtful and manipulative behaviour is a major concern, which is why I'm keeping her at an arm's length. I'm not sure, quite yet, that the best thing to do is cut all ties and block her, but that certainly may be the only option if her abusive behaviour keeps cropping up. The sad things is that one can't have a reasonable discussion with her, and she just can't see anyone else's point of view.

[Wiseman2]

Most people who are drunk and get criticized about their looks, acne, personality and get messages about how emotionally unhinged they are don't respond well.

[Jas76]

Most people who are drunk and get criticized about their looks, acne, personality and get messages about how emotionally unhinged they are don't respond well.

 

So you think her behaviour is perfectly normal then, and should be excused as such? If so, you appear to be disagreeing with every other person who has posted in this thread.

[boltnrun]

I'm getting the feeling focusing on this woman gives you something to do.

 

All the research, all the copying and pasting, all the ruminating and dwelling and planning what to say to her...it's like this gives you a purpose in life.

 

Since you like research I can't help but think that skill could be applied somewhere more productive and less harmful to your mental health.

 

And I get wanting something to focus on. I'm currently on leave from work because I'm having a lot of trouble with debilitating anxiety. I focus on things that are not necessarily productive because they give me something to do (like post on this forum imagining I might actually be helping someone...). But when I do things like clean or organize my apartment or take training classes relevant to my work it adds to my life instead of bringing something into it that I know could be counterproductive to my mental health.

[Wiseman2]

I think sending her texts insinuating she is crazy and making remarks about her appearance are cruel and unwarranted. Is she sane?

 

Who knows considering she seems like a transient who wanted to stay at your place and trashes with abusive remarks when drunk and defensive. But that could be any number of things. I saw schizophrenic man walking down the street once telling everyone to f-off.

 

Who knows she could have an organic brain syndrome considering her age and drinking habits. Have you checked the neurology journals? Maybe she has MS, a brain tumor or any multitude of psychiatric or physical issues.

 

You can continue to look up every thought, personality, mood, organic and substance abuse disorder in the DSM5 if you want, but the point is do you want to keep texting her?

So you think her behaviour is perfectly normal then, and should be excused as such?

[Jas76]

I'm getting the feeling focusing on this woman gives you something to do.

 

All the research, all the copying and pasting, all the ruminating and dwelling and planning what to say to her...it's like this gives you a purpose in life.

 

Since you like research I can't help but think that skill could be applied somewhere more productive and less harmful to your mental health.

 

And I get wanting something to focus on. I'm currently on leave from work because I'm having a lot of trouble with debilitating anxiety. I focus on things that are not necessarily productive because they give me something to do (like post on this forum imagining I might actually be helping someone...). But when I do things like clean or organize my apartment or take training classes relevant to my work it adds to my life instead of bringing something into it that I know could be counterproductive to my mental health.

 

I hear you.

 

I think it is coming from a place of genuine caring for her, and not wanting to treat her unfairly. I feel I at least owe her that. I can assure you if I didn't give a damn about her that I have plenty of other things to do.

 

I think my altruism (to some degree anyway) is my achilles heel often sadly, hence the reason I invited her into my home, which ultimately led to most of this drama. I really struggle to find a healthy balance sometimes.

 

I also wouldn't undermine your contribution here. It has been immensely helpful, and given me a lot of food for thought.

[Jas76]

I think sending her texts insinuating she is crazy and making remarks about her appearance are cruel and unwarranted. Is she sane?

 

Who knows considering she seems like a transient who wanted to stay at your place and trashes with abusive remarks when drunk and defensive. But that could be any number of things. I saw schizophrenic man walking down the street once telling everyone to f-off.

 

Who knows she could have an organic brain syndrome considering her age and drinking habits. Have you checked the neurology journals? Maybe she has MS, a brain tumor or any multitude of psychiatric or physical issues.

 

You can continue to look up every thought, personality, mood, organic and substance abuse disorder in the DSM5 if you want, but the point is do you want to keep texting her?

 

You know the background, as set out in my first post, which has been extensively elaborated on. I tried to bottle things up as long as I could, but at some point it's best to be open and honest. Others have also mentioned that she does carry some responsibility regarding her lack of care for herself (https://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565191&page=4&p=7226112&highlight=skin#post7226112). That said, I could perhaps have exercised more tact in regards to her skin problems, which I have reflected on and sincerely apologised for, which is a hell of a lot more than she has done, regardless of sending me the most abusive text messages I have ever received! You also conveniently gloss over the fact that she cruelly manipulated me into saying something there.

 

Moreover, do you not see any hint of cruelness in her subjecting me to the kind of abuse, hositliy and manipulation she has, particularly knowing of my clinical depression? It goes further when she clearly has no remorse, and such behaviour continues to crop up. She has accused me of being crazy on many occasion, in the most callous and hurtful terms, with the intention of causing offence.

 

The comment regarding her emotional instability (widely accepted from posters in this thread) was said with her best interests in mind, and a genuine attempt to rescue the relationship, albeit in part. To that end, I think you are being more than a little unfair and harsh.

 

She definitely doesn't have MS, and her psychiatric diagnosis is relatively clear.

[LaHermes]

Jas.

 

Here it is. The heart of the matter.

"I really struggle to find a healthy balance sometimes."

 

And healthy balance will definitely not be found with an unhealthy "other".

 

The sad things is that one can't have a reasonable discussion with her, and she just can't see anyone else's point of view.

 

Time to call it a day on this one, OP.

[Wiseman2]

Calling each other crazy doesn't sound like fun. If she were on trail and you were her attorney, would you use the insanity defense in her case?

Moreover, do you not see any hint of cruelness in her subjecting me to the kind of abuse, hositliy and manipulation she has, particularly knowing of my clinical depression?

[Jas76]

Jas.

 

Here it is. The heart of the matter.

"I really struggle to find a healthy balance sometimes."

 

And healthy balance will definitely not be found with an unhealthy "other".

 

The sad things is that one can't have a reasonable discussion with her, and she just can't see anyone else's point of view.

 

Time to call it a day on this one, OP.

 

Indeed, all that is very sad but true.

 

Yep, I try and discuss things with her and she becomes very hostile, confrontational, vindictive and overemotional, hence the reason that I was always reluctant to discuss all this in person, and try approach things from a safe distance. As I have alluded to previously, she also doesn't need a face-to-face discussion to realise that her relentless rage and abuse that one night was profoundly wrong. If someone can't see that that kind of abuse is wrong, especially when given months to reflect and repeatedly prompted to do so, then I can safely say that there is little hope.

 

Thanks for the link etc. you sent me by the way. I think a lot of that is very pertinent.