mustlovedogs Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Thank you, that is good to think about. I need to adjust my approach somehow.....but I’m not even in sales. :( I’m literally technical support. My focus isnt ever to sell them something, and if I tell them to buy our thing or tell them to use a competitor’s thing, it’s out of interest for their needs. And my best vendors approach it that way too. They are honest and will tell us when one product isn’t a good fit but they’ll find other ways to help :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 The topic I’m going to be telling customer #2 about is very complicated. It’s something that people study for years (like I did) to become experts. The learning curve is painful. Honestly, I think I can be the best teacher in the world, but the customer is going to have to step up and do homework. You can’t learn quantum physics overnight, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustlovedogs Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 The topic I’m going to be telling customer #2 about is very complicated. It’s something that people study for years (like I did) to become experts. The learning curve is painful. Honestly, I think I can be the best teacher in the world, but the customer is going to have to step up and do homework. You can’t learn quantum physics overnight, you know? Well what competency do you expect of them? If they don’t need a PhD, then it’s on you to find a way to relay the information at the simplest possible level that gives them the competency they need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Eh, to be honest, they do need PhDs, or at least 5-10 years of experience, I’d say. The material just isn’t easy and they need to have coding skills. If they have only 1 of the two, then they will have an easier time, but if someone has a PhD and knows how to code, I can teach them but it just won’t be in one lesson. And quite frankly, this is one small account. I think my Boss would be annoyed if I am spending 25% of my time on one tiny account. I can recommend that if they want to have a good grasp of the material, they can go to weekend intensive courses that are taught, usually in other cities and they are not cheap. Plus it is 1-2 instructors for 50 people so they’d still be on their own. I’ve taken these intensive courses myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustlovedogs Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Eh, to be honest, they do need PhDs, or at least 5-10 years of experience, I’d say. The material just isn’t easy and they need to have coding skills. If they have only 1 of the two, then they will have an easier time, but if someone has a PhD and knows how to code, I can teach them but it just won’t be in one lesson. And quite frankly, this is one small account. I think my Boss would be annoyed if I am spending 25% of my time on one tiny account. I can recommend that if they want to have a good grasp of the material, they can go to weekend intensive courses that are taught, usually in other cities and they are not cheap. Plus it is 1-2 instructors for 50 people so they’d still be on their own. I’ve taken these intensive courses myself. If their product requires that much knowledge, then it’s not a good fit for them and they’re being set up for failure. Everything can be explained in simpler terms. But if a complex understanding is needed, but not possible, that’s not a feasible solution. If one of my vendors told me I needed a PhD and intensive courses to understand their product, I wouldn’t continue with them. They either provide the support within my bandwidth to accomplish my end goal, or I find a different solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Well what competency do you expect of them? If they don’t need a PhD, then it’s on you to find a way to relay the information at the simplest possible level that gives them the competency they need in general, the instruments themselves are easy to run, but analyzing the data can be complicated, depending on what the customer is doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 If their product requires that much knowledge, then it’s not a good fit for them and they’re being set up for failure. Everything can be explained in simpler terms. But if a complex understanding is needed, but not possible, that’s not a feasible solution. If one of my vendors told me I needed a PhD and intensive courses to understand their product, I wouldn’t continue with them. They either provide the support within my bandwidth to accomplish my end goal, or I find a different solution. so... this customer does have a PhD. A lot of our customers do. I do think he can do it, but there is a learning curve. And he’s going to have to really open his ears and listen to me and trust I know what I’m talking about. If he’s going in with the attitude that I don’t know what I’m doing, then fine, he can go find someone else to teach him. To be honest, like I said, I’m not sales. Not everyone needs to buy our products. If they are going to do this experiment once, then I think they should pay for another company to perform the service rather than drop big bucks for a machine they use once a year. Some people buy our products and don’t budget hiring additional staff to support the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Oh gosh, I just remembered, customer #2 is the one who asked our company for $30,000 of services for free and my boss just laughed at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustlovedogs Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 so... this customer does have a PhD. A lot of our customers do. I do think he can do it, but there is a learning curve. And he’s going to have to really open his ears and listen to me and trust I know what I’m talking about. If he’s going in with the attitude that I don’t know what I’m doing, then fine, he can go find someone else to teach him. To be honest, like I said, I’m not sales. Not everyone needs to buy our products. If they are going to do this experiment once, then I think they should pay for another company to perform the service rather than drop big bucks for a machine they use once a year. Some people buy our products and don’t budget hiring additional staff to support the work. I’m just trying to give you feedback and be helpful, not be mean, so please know I’m not being spiteful. How you’re answering questions is kind of how that guy I described earlier did. The way you answered the question implied the customers education level was a severe hindrance to the product, when in fact they have the right caliber of training, but may need more focused training. And the way you’re answering feels really condescending. Could just be an internet/typed word thing, but you feel (to me) like “I am great, I am experienced, and you will struggle to catch up” Maybe that’s true. But that creates defensiveness A better approach: “Hey customer, this is kind of confusing but I’ll try and explain it in a way that makes sense to me. Let me know if you need it presented another way. If it takes awhile to pick up, don’t get frustrated because it’s complicated for everyone” The right approach is collaboration instead of “he needs to open his ears”. It doesn’t matter if you aren’t sales. Anyone interfacing with customers needs to tailor their approach to some extent with each individual. This isn’t just for sales but in every interaction with other colleagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 I guess now I do feel defensive, having heard this negative feedback from him. Part of me just wants to throw my hands up and be like “go find someone else to explain it to you since you don’t trust me.” The thing is, when people ask my coworker these questions, his first call is to me to ask me how to do that. I’m not saying this to be cocky, I’m just saying objectively. All I can cover in one afternoon is a “flavor.” I can point them to resources and show them some computer programs that will be helpful, but they’re not going to walk away with their answers solved in 3 hours. Like I said, you can’t learn quantum mechanics in 3 hours. Im going to have to frame that in a nicer way, I guess I have to “manage expectations” here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 So... I’m trying to think of how to frame this.... regardless of whether they buy our product or our competitors’ Products, data analysis is always a pain point and the bottleneck. It’s like if I work at Best Buy and I sell you a laptop, I can show you some programs and I can install Microsoft Word, but you have to write the term paper yourself. Because it is very specialized and is customized for what the customer is doing. In 3 hours, I can show some general tools and show some examples with his data. And then he can use that as a jumping off point to perform his analyses and come back to me if he has some specific questions. If he is thinking that we will do the analyses for him, that we cannot do, that is beyond the scope of my job description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustlovedogs Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 If I were your customer, I would want: - an introductory session to go over the software with some example discussion of the questions I’ve asked or needs I’ve posed - a follow up session where I can ask more pointed questions - some timeline of technical support And you would need a clear engagement letter on the scope of your project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 If I were your customer, I would want: - an introductory session to go over the software with some example discussion of the questions I’ve asked or needs I’ve posed - a follow up session where I can ask more pointed questions - some timeline of technical support And you would need a clear engagement letter on the scope of your project this is good, thank you. I can certainly prepare slides and give them an overview and then links for reference. I can give them the information and tell them I will check in with them in a month and see where they are with the work and what questions have popped up. The last problem is the tricky part because I think they are expecting a lot more. Like I said, I can show them how to use the laptop, I think I they are hoping our company will write them the term paper but I literally cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
journeynow Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 this is good, thank you. I can certainly prepare slides and give them an overview and then links for reference. I can give them the information and tell them I will check in with them in a month and see where they are with the work and what questions have popped up. The last problem is the tricky part because I think they are expecting a lot more. Like I said, I can show them how to use the laptop, I think I they are hoping our company will write them the term paper but I literally cannot. Can your company offer options (instead of “go find someone else to explain it to you since you don’t trust me” you tell them about your special package just right for them.) Option A: Basic overview of quantum mechanics (up to _____ hours); Free with purchase Option B: More detailed, overview plus How to get started (______ hours): Additional $Fee Option C: Quantum mechanics (_______________ hours): Additional $$Fee Bonus package: ongoing support by subscription. $$$ Basically, find a way to offer variations and make it work for both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Can your company offer options (instead of “go find someone else to explain it to you since you don’t trust me” you tell them about your special package just right for them.) Option A: Basic overview of quantum mechanics (up to _____ hours); Free with purchase Option B: More detailed, overview plus How to get started (______ hours): Additional $Fee Option C: Quantum mechanics (_______________ hours): Additional $$Fee Bonus package: ongoing support by subscription. $$$ Basically, find a way to offer variations and make it work for both parties. this is good, thank you. I have to double check, I don’t think we offer anything beyond option A. There are other companies who offer B and C, so I can list a few of those. part of the issue is also that they are working with some confidential data, so technically, I’m not supposed to be allowed to see it/know about it. If I ever see confidential data in the course of my work (like let’s say, a patient’s name and cancer diagnosis), I am supposed to avert my eyes and quickly forget what I saw. Thankfully, that’s easy for me because I don’t have the best memory for those kinds of things. Im meeting with another sales person soon, I will ask what kinds of pricing options we have and what services we can offer, given that the work some of our customers do is confidential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutbrownhare Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 If someone's been told that you're useless and incompetent, on your phone the whole time ect yak and blah... and you go in, are really gracious, helpful and clearly highly competent at your job - who's going to look like the idiot? The Arya's and Sansa's of this world really do trip themselves up in time. Don't take this personally at all - go in there and SOCK it to 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
journeynow Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 this is good, thank you. I have to double check, I don’t think we offer anything beyond option A. There are other companies who offer B and C, so I can list a few of those. part of the issue is also that they are working with some confidential data, so technically, I’m not supposed to be allowed to see it/know about it. If I ever see confidential data in the course of my work (like let’s say, a patient’s name and cancer diagnosis), I am supposed to avert my eyes and quickly forget what I saw. Thankfully, that’s easy for me because I don’t have the best memory for those kinds of things. It doesn't sound like it's really an issue, though, if you know to ignore it, and other companies that offer more thorough training than you do probably encounter the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 I just had a conversation with customer #2 and that went worse than expected. Sigh. Basically, it sounds like, for whatever reason, his expectations were too high about the results of the pilot test. He likened it to expecting a large feast, and then only getting one slice of a plain cookie. :/ (ok, I thought that was over-dramatic.) I tried to reiterate that this was step one, no one gets all the data they need in 1 day, it's a process. My coworker tried to spin things and apologized to him and cut the call off. For whatever reason, I'm not communicating well with this one customer. I think the customer somewhere along the point kind of got unrealistic expectations so we need to manage that down. sigh. We have to regroup, hopefully when he has had time to cool down. Since I started this job, I think i've been nicer to other people in customer service because I get it more. I checked into a hotel this weekend and they totally messed up my reservation. I just sat there, playing on my phone, while they fixed it, it took about 10 minutes, but it worked out ok. They were apologetic and I was like, it's ok, I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiseman2 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Do the sales people make all sorts of promises, then the training people have to put out the fires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Do the sales people make all sorts of promises, then the training people have to put out the fires? I have no idea! My coworker called the sales guy to see what was promised or whatnot. The customer said he was feeling deflated because he thought he would be able to get all of these results from the experiment, now he finds out he cannot, and he rates the machine an "F." Omg, I need to talk to my boss. I'll see him tomorrow. And the fact is, the instrument is not an "F" - it is a very good machine! But it will take weeks or months for him to get all of the results he will need, I told him to treat this like a pilot experiment, not the final shot. I guess I didn't make that point across enough. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Your work reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Your work reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon! I know, right. :/ I think because he's a totally new customer, some of this is bound to happen. I wasn't in on some of the early conversations so I don't know what was promised. And some of it is science, you know? You have to do the pilot experiment, get the first set data, and then plan the next experiments to get the whole picture. I guess he was thinking it would be one and done? I have no idea. I guess we will have to let him cool down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Honestly, this is all very recent. So far, most of my interactions with other customers have been pretty normal and pleasant. Maybe they thought I sucked or I was great, but it never came back around to me. I am happy that I will be seeing a great number of coworkers this week for a work event, so I am looking forward to talking to them about how they deal with difficult situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annie24 Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 Your work reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon! You're right - that conversation went so poorly that it's almost funny. Hopefully we can fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 You're right - that conversation went so poorly that it's almost funny. Hopefully we can fix this. It sounds very frustrating so don't feel bad as it would be for anyone! Hope you get some relief soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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