JingleBellss Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 A long, yet very unusual story of a hearbreak. We are both in our late 20's. We felt the spark right from the first minute of our first online conversation. Every single message of her made me smile or laugh, she had the same feeling. Her sense of humor perfectly matched mine. Fastforward 1 week later - we had already had few amazing dates, we could speak and flirt for hours, chemistry was overhelming, wells of conversation topics never runing dry. By that time I already revealed the secrets of my life to her and felt completely comfortable about that, she was a great listener. After first week we went to a bar, got quite drunk, had a really hot kiss, ended up at my place. Did not have sex at night, she refused to do that even though attraction was very intense. However, in the morning it finally happened, in a wild fashion, we simply exploded all the sexual intense that accumulated during first dates. Even though she was afraid it went too fast, she said she just simply could not resist and that it was the best sex she ever had. The rest few weeks were more of a movie scenario than reality. We could not get tired of each other, would just simply spend every minute of weekend together, sex was amazing. We complimented each other a lot, according to her, I was "the best lover and the most interesting person she ever had", she would compliment my intelligence, lifestyle, body. Would write sweet messages ("miss you", "I cant stop thinking of you" and "you simply drive me crazy) and videos all the time, call me. She would already talk about our future, about where should we travel for vacation in few months, how many kids we would have. I knew it is dangerous, but everything seemed simply too good to end anyway. During first weeks I got to know her to my best friends and invited to our parties. Everyone liked her a lot. Everyone was happy that I have finally found a girl that I actually fell for - I am actually very picky because of getting enough attention from women. She was very attentative, curiuos about my life, gave a huge support and would counsel me when I had a bad day at work. I simply fell for her completely and showed just as much attention, preparing surprise dinners, bringing flowers etc. I imaginged her as a mother of my children. Yes, just after a month. A month after our dating was when this very strange conversation happened. She suddenly started crying out of nowhere. I tried to ask what happened. She took some time to open up, just kept telling that our relationship might finish there and that there is another person in background. I was scared as f*** and could not believe hearing that, to be honest. What the hell, do you have a husband or what? She told that few months ago she broke with her ex-boyfriend of 2 years (they broke for the second time already), but they have already had bought a 2 weeks exotic trip to other continent, which will take place in 2 weeks from now, during her birthday. Alright, that might seem crazy, but I actually was glad, since at first I thought she wants to break up and this message was a little bit better than that. Believe it or not, I actually had enough trust in us to think that 2 weeks with an ex cannot simply stop our amazing relationship. She was very surpised and glad about my reaction. She promised that everything between them has finished FOR SURE, she is the dumper, they have blocked each other in social media and never speak. However, it is simply too late to cancel the trip. Few days later was when I started actually thinking - why didn't she offer me to buy-off the tickets? Do they plan to sleep in same room, same bed? Is she going to tell him about me? All of her answers seemed suspiciuos and not entirely honest, she was unwilling to change anything in her trip. During those two weeks that we were still as passionate as before, she called me "love" in front of some of her friends, we were still planning our future after the trip, but the trust in her started to drop and I felt that she is not telling the whole truth. Day before the trip we both confessed how much are we waiting for the trip to finish so we could get back together, but we also had some big fights since I really felt her being flaky. Her ex actually slept a night before trip at her place and her motive was that the flight is early and he has nowhere else to stay. Anyway, the last moments of goodbye were very nice. Day one of the trip was when her communication with me changed. Shorter texts, less emoticons and pictures. She would still send kisses and "miss you" messages, but you could feel it's rather formal (without efforts made) or sometimes she would just ignore my texts after seeing it. Yes, the internet in that country is really bad, she is busy traveling, but she was still online time to time and it would not effect content of messages. I started going crazy. It was one of the hardest 2 weeks in my life. I could not sleep, could not work, could not eat. Lost lot of weight, could not do sports anymore. When I told her that, her responses were like "I understand you, but please don't go crazy", "let's wait for the summer and we will travel together", "I really wish you were here with me". She would never call. I did once, but she was also formal and quite in a hurry to finish conversation. After a week I simply cut the contact, because could not hear any more of this formal BS. Few days later she came back with "I am thinking about you every minute, miss you very much". Yeah sure, I did not write back. Few days later she sends a cute dog picture. That's when we had a longer conversation finally. She turned back to old SHE. Was laughing at my jokes, telling she misses me, counseling me about work etc. However, I acted very carefully and did not show much of the feelings. After one of the messages she simply got angry about my coldness, ignored me for whole day and finally deleted me from FB friends... what??? Long text by me about my feelings and she is back, keeping me wondering about her actions though. Fast forward to the end of trip - instead of instantly meeting me, she actually goes back to hometown for weekend (her ex is from hometown btw). On one of the evenings she simply goes missing once again (which is untypical) and does not write me back. In the morning I write her a message telling that enough is enough, I am tired of this and simply ask if she is back with her ex? She starts appologizing, telling that she just had a fun evening with her friend (girl) without phone and if she could turn back time she would have never traveled - the holidays were very stressful and tiring because of ex being around, they had many fights and he simply irritates her and they are definately not back together. I decided to meet her in the evening. She did not actually bring me holidays gifts, which already looked a little suspiciuos. However, the spark comes back again, we kiss, she says it made her feel dizzy and special, noone else makes her feel like that Next evening we have good sex as always, things seem to be coming back, communication becomes more intense. However, I feel that she is still colder than before. Messages are not the same as before trip, she refuses to make long-term (few days or more) plans. A week after the trip, we have this amazing romantic evening at my home, dancing and talking, but still she brags about her plans for future which do not actually include me at all (for example holidays with her male friends). In the morning I sit her down and tell - I am tired and either we have to stop this, remain friends with benefits as it seems to be or we start getting serious and plan our future together more than two days ahead. Gave her few days to think. I know it was not the best timing, but I simply could not live with it anymore. Few days later she comes back with a text message "I am very thankful for all our precious moments. I still have the same feelings as before and did not actually doubt our future, but your monologue pushed to give a second thought about our relationship - we are simply too diffeent. In short-term the love can save the world, but I know that in the long-term our differences might bring many fights and tears. You need everything simple right from the start and I need freedom". Isn't letting you go for 2 weeks with an ex - the highest level of freedom? That's it, I tell it's a pity that she has done it through messages, wrote a nice goodbye message thanking her for nice moments and cut the contact with a huge heartache. She gave me the happiest 1,5 month and later gave me the most stressful 1 month of my life. That is the moment when I sit and think - what the hell was that. I actually thought I met a love of my life. A perfect woman. Finally, after all those years. Even though there were so many red flags, how come such a passionate relationship can turn so bad? What if there was no trip? What the hell happened between her and ex? Were I a rebound or was she a commitment-phobe? Did I do something wrong? These are the questions that actually currently bug me for nights and days. Still no sleep, no eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosephase Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 You didn't do anything wrong. You just fell in love before you knew the person. That's always risky. Because she's right. If she needs the freedom to go away for a month with an ex and it is something that makes you physically ill? That's not a good foundation for a long lasting relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reinventmyself Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I am sorry this happened to you. I think you should go back and reread what you just wrote. Though you are so close to this experience emotionally, I think with time you will admit to yourself you know what happened. And no, it's not that you did anything wrong (in her eyes) You rushed in too fast and ignored the signs. Had you taken it slower these things would have unfolded over time and you wouldn't have been so blinded by the lust to not see them. I read somewhere once that relationship of short duration of often more difficult to get over than longer ones. You are at your highest, most hopeful and full of excitement. It's a long way to fall. She probably allowed it to get so passionate so quickly as way to avoid her own grief of her recent failed relationship. At the same time is was extremely wrong and selfish of her to say the things she did to you, probably knowing all along she would likely reconcile with the ex. It's not a good character sign at all. Consider yourself fortunate and take this lesson with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morello Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I could have probably written a very similar story that I experienced last year, except for the trip with the ex and it was slightly longer. You probably realise by now that you made a mistake by rushing things and denying her the freedom she wanted, coming from a break-up. You kind of pushed her to make a decision and she did. Having said that, I think that even if you took things slower, those problems would surface anyway further down the track. She's clearly not over with the ex. She might not get back to him, but that doesn't mean she is over him or the break up. Unfortunately, like you said, when we are showered with attention and affection like that it's almost impossible to make the decision to step away even when noticing the red flags. I did exactly the same. Lessons to be learned. I don't think I have learned as much about me and about relationships as I have with this break up. Emotions are very high during the honeymoon stage... 1.5 months is in no way time enough to know someone. Especially someone coming from a long-term relationship break-up. I wouldn't say her feelings were fake, they were just projections of her previous relationship. She wanted desperately to loved and be loved. I don't think the trip is to be blamed either, but it probably did stir up her emotions to the point she felt uncomfortable going further with you. It will not be easy to let this one go but that's what you have to do. I'm about 5 months since my break up in a similar 'rebound' situation. I'm feeling much better now but I still think about her daily. I got over her but didn't get over what happened. I still question myself whether anything there was actually real or if I was just used by her to get over her ex. The feeling that you think you found someone special just to be discarded like that is something I don't want for my worst enemy. But soon enough this will be just a valuable lesson. I also find it extremely unlikely that she will try to get back to you, based on everything I have read about rebound experiences on the web. You should just try to move on from this and if she contacts you again in the future you decide what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgmitch Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Wow! I would have turned and ran, went no contact when she told me she was going on a two week trip with her ex. The end. It put you through hell, waiting, wondering, no eating or sleeping. If she was over her ex she wouldn't have cared about a trip or the money, etc. Stay no contact and I know you will be fine. You have learned a valuable lesson. Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JingleBellss Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 Thank you all for the answers and input. Actually, there was even no need to reread my post as suggested, I got to think "what the hell, this story is so f***** up, how naive were you actually?" just while writing it. I got simply blinded by the intensity of feelings. She actually went to dates before me, as she told, however, she picked me, I thought. I just thought "from what I have been told and saw, I am such much better than her ex, he has no chances". Well, maybe he has no chances, but I probably had very small chances from the beggining as well. Perhaps, if I withdrawed in very early stages, there might have been something between us in few months or years. The worst thing is that it will be very hard to fall for any other girl for a long long time ahead, since the expectations for chemistry and matching up are high in the sky after this whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JingleBellss Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 For anyone, interested how this story finished - she actually reached me out after 1,5 months of no contact. Proposed to meet for a walk. I declinded. Then she told she misses me. As much as I would like to turn back time, it would be self-destructing, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik123 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Well done JingleBells.. It may have been tempting to accept her "offer", but you did the right thing. Keep moving it forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey383 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Here is my 10 cents.... 1. Who does this?: Starts a new relationship with someone and goes on a trip with an ex-BF or GF???? Ummmm RED FLAG!!!!! -That's a no, no, noooooooo...... 2. I think she was scaming you: She wasn't broken up with her other guy to begin with... She found a victim to scam and you were it... Except: She wasn't getting (did not get) anything from you in due time... And it presented too much work to stick around... Scammers want it all easy... Why? Cuz they are lazy... Seems to me that her motives were not love at all... Her motives were more like your pocket book... When you pressed for unconditional love, she bailed on you... She ran... Scammers do not want to be put in that sort of a situation... They need their freedom to scam others... I bet she was scamming that other guy also... I bet that he was paying for her nice little trip... She was using him and she was already working you, possibly someone else... You, asking for some commitment from her, allowed her to run (easiest way out of a situation)... Otherwise she would have been exposed.... I bet that you were not the only rodeo for her.... I bet she did this to scores of other men... You dodged a bullet... You did not get suckered in....Her text to you (smoke screen).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey383 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Thank you all for the answers and input. Actually, there was even no need to reread my post as suggested, I got to think "what the hell, this story is so f***** up, how naive were you actually?" just while writing it. I got simply blinded by the intensity of feelings. She actually went to dates before me, as she told, however, she picked me, I thought. I just thought "from what I have been told and saw, I am such much better than her ex, he has no chances". Well, maybe he has no chances, but I probably had very small chances from the beggining as well. Perhaps, if I withdrawed in very early stages, there might have been something between us in few months or years. The worst thing is that it will be very hard to fall for any other girl for a long long time ahead, since the expectations for chemistry and matching up are high in the sky after this whole story. To add: To my previous post. Some advise: Do not force it, do not chase it..... When you quit looking, that's when it will come to you... This girl had a load of red flags from the get go... She was charming you and she knew it... You were nothing but a target... Perhaps she was even using you as a rebound... A temp fix to get her ex back... And it worked... You could have been just a conduit... If she really liked you, she would have cancelled her trip... And those feelings you had, those were correct... A human gut feeling telling you that something is off.... Something is not right... She went on that trip with her mind to either reconcile with him or use him... Bottom line is that you did not stick around long enough to figure it out completely... However I think she was just playing the game... And perhaps playing 2 or 3 or 4 at the same time... My friend Sputnik on here knows that I beat this drum, but ever since I been hurt by my ex about 7 months ago, I started doing extensive research on Narcissists, Sociopaths and even Psychopaths... I discovered that there is as much of those in the female population as it is in the male population... And most of them are scam artists, cons, players, cold hearted junkies looking for a quick fix... Sometimes they have multiple lovers at one time... And so on.... She sucked you in and it was quick... She was fully aware of it... She stuck around up until her trip... You were catching on and questioning her actions... For her it was too much work... They want it easy... Basically she felt that you were not worth the effort... Hmmmm.... So the question is: Did she really like you? Obviously if you were worth the effort, she would have been pursuing you... Sorry if I sound pessimistic, but seriously? Her trip was so important????? Think of that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik123 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Hi Jingle, As the wonderful Mikey points out, you should have cut all ties the minute this holiday with the "ex" came up. It's a good lesson learned though.. I'm sure you will find someone much better soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecastle Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Bravo for not giving in to that recent reach out. That shows real character and self-worth. I'm 38, and frankly just getting there. Who knows if I'd have that courage with my ex today, and she cheated on me! Love, lust, connection: it's a gamble. You rolled the dice, won big for a minute, and lost. Nothing to be ashamed of. She is clearly not in any state to be in a relationship. She's flailing, hurt by an ex she's still into. Who knows? Who cares? You're on the better side of this now, and time will keep reminding you of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank State Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 A long, yet very unusual story of a hearbreak. We are both in our late 20's. We felt the spark right from the first minute of our first online conversation. Every single message of her made me smile or laugh, she had the same feeling. Her sense of humor perfectly matched mine. Fastforward 1 week later - we had already had few amazing dates, we could speak and flirt for hours, chemistry was overhelming, wells of conversation topics never runing dry. By that time I already revealed the secrets of my life to her and felt completely comfortable about that, she was a great listener. After first week we went to a bar, got quite drunk, had a really hot kiss, ended up at my place. Did not have sex at night, she refused to do that even though attraction was very intense. However, in the morning it finally happened, in a wild fashion, we simply exploded all the sexual intense that accumulated during first dates. Even though she was afraid it went too fast, she said she just simply could not resist and that it was the best sex she ever had. The rest few weeks were more of a movie scenario than reality. We could not get tired of each other, would just simply spend every minute of weekend together, sex was amazing. We complimented each other a lot, according to her, I was "the best lover and the most interesting person she ever had", she would compliment my intelligence, lifestyle, body. Would write sweet messages ("miss you", "I cant stop thinking of you" and "you simply drive me crazy) and videos all the time, call me. She would already talk about our future, about where should we travel for vacation in few months, how many kids we would have. I knew it is dangerous, but everything seemed simply too good to end anyway. During first weeks I got to know her to my best friends and invited to our parties. Everyone liked her a lot. Everyone was happy that I have finally found a girl that I actually fell for - I am actually very picky because of getting enough attention from women. She was very attentative, curiuos about my life, gave a huge support and would counsel me when I had a bad day at work. I simply fell for her completely and showed just as much attention, preparing surprise dinners, bringing flowers etc. I imaginged her as a mother of my children. Yes, just after a month. A month after our dating was when this very strange conversation happened. She suddenly started crying out of nowhere. I tried to ask what happened. She took some time to open up, just kept telling that our relationship might finish there and that there is another person in background. I was scared as f*** and could not believe hearing that, to be honest. What the hell, do you have a husband or what? She told that few months ago she broke with her ex-boyfriend of 2 years (they broke for the second time already), but they have already had bought a 2 weeks exotic trip to other continent, which will take place in 2 weeks from now, during her birthday. Alright, that might seem crazy, but I actually was glad, since at first I thought she wants to break up and this message was a little bit better than that. Believe it or not, I actually had enough trust in us to think that 2 weeks with an ex cannot simply stop our amazing relationship. She was very surpised and glad about my reaction. She promised that everything between them has finished FOR SURE, she is the dumper, they have blocked each other in social media and never speak. However, it is simply too late to cancel the trip. Few days later was when I started actually thinking - why didn't she offer me to buy-off the tickets? Do they plan to sleep in same room, same bed? Is she going to tell him about me? All of her answers seemed suspiciuos and not entirely honest, she was unwilling to change anything in her trip. During those two weeks that we were still as passionate as before, she called me "love" in front of some of her friends, we were still planning our future after the trip, but the trust in her started to drop and I felt that she is not telling the whole truth. Day before the trip we both confessed how much are we waiting for the trip to finish so we could get back together, but we also had some big fights since I really felt her being flaky. Her ex actually slept a night before trip at her place and her motive was that the flight is early and he has nowhere else to stay. Anyway, the last moments of goodbye were very nice. Day one of the trip was when her communication with me changed. Shorter texts, less emoticons and pictures. She would still send kisses and "miss you" messages, but you could feel it's rather formal (without efforts made) or sometimes she would just ignore my texts after seeing it. Yes, the internet in that country is really bad, she is busy traveling, but she was still online time to time and it would not effect content of messages. I started going crazy. It was one of the hardest 2 weeks in my life. I could not sleep, could not work, could not eat. Lost lot of weight, could not do sports anymore. When I told her that, her responses were like "I understand you, but please don't go crazy", "let's wait for the summer and we will travel together", "I really wish you were here with me". She would never call. I did once, but she was also formal and quite in a hurry to finish conversation. After a week I simply cut the contact, because could not hear any more of this formal BS. Few days later she came back with "I am thinking about you every minute, miss you very much". Yeah sure, I did not write back. Few days later she sends a cute dog picture. That's when we had a longer conversation finally. She turned back to old SHE. Was laughing at my jokes, telling she misses me, counseling me about work etc. However, I acted very carefully and did not show much of the feelings. After one of the messages she simply got angry about my coldness, ignored me for whole day and finally deleted me from FB friends... what??? Long text by me about my feelings and she is back, keeping me wondering about her actions though. Fast forward to the end of trip - instead of instantly meeting me, she actually goes back to hometown for weekend (her ex is from hometown btw). On one of the evenings she simply goes missing once again (which is untypical) and does not write me back. In the morning I write her a message telling that enough is enough, I am tired of this and simply ask if she is back with her ex? She starts appologizing, telling that she just had a fun evening with her friend (girl) without phone and if she could turn back time she would have never traveled - the holidays were very stressful and tiring because of ex being around, they had many fights and he simply irritates her and they are definately not back together. I decided to meet her in the evening. She did not actually bring me holidays gifts, which already looked a little suspiciuos. However, the spark comes back again, we kiss, she says it made her feel dizzy and special, noone else makes her feel like that Next evening we have good sex as always, things seem to be coming back, communication becomes more intense. However, I feel that she is still colder than before. Messages are not the same as before trip, she refuses to make long-term (few days or more) plans. A week after the trip, we have this amazing romantic evening at my home, dancing and talking, but still she brags about her plans for future which do not actually include me at all (for example holidays with her male friends). In the morning I sit her down and tell - I am tired and either we have to stop this, remain friends with benefits as it seems to be or we start getting serious and plan our future together more than two days ahead. Gave her few days to think. I know it was not the best timing, but I simply could not live with it anymore. Few days later she comes back with a text message "I am very thankful for all our precious moments. I still have the same feelings as before and did not actually doubt our future, but your monologue pushed to give a second thought about our relationship - we are simply too diffeent. In short-term the love can save the world, but I know that in the long-term our differences might bring many fights and tears. You need everything simple right from the start and I need freedom". Isn't letting you go for 2 weeks with an ex - the highest level of freedom? That's it, I tell it's a pity that she has done it through messages, wrote a nice goodbye message thanking her for nice moments and cut the contact with a huge heartache. She gave me the happiest 1,5 month and later gave me the most stressful 1 month of my life. That is the moment when I sit and think - what the hell was that. I actually thought I met a love of my life. A perfect woman. Finally, after all those years. Even though there were so many red flags, how come such a passionate relationship can turn so bad? What if there was no trip? What the hell happened between her and ex? Were I a rebound or was she a commitment-phobe? Did I do something wrong? These are the questions that actually currently bug me for nights and days. Still no sleep, no eat."gave a huge support and would counsel me when I had a bad day at work. I simply fell for her completely and showed just as much attention, preparing surprise dinners, bringing flowers etc. I imaginged her as a mother of my children. Yes, just after a month." I am going to take a good guess of where it went wrong. You came off as too needy. I'm not sure if you did, but it wouldn't surprise me if you told her you loved her in that short span of time. And imagining her as the mother of your children? That's way too much. I think you smothered her man. That stuff with scare women off really quickly. It's lust. It's the excitement of a new relationship. But you have to keep those things in check. Slow and steady wins the race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank State Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 For anyone, interested how this story finished - she actually reached me out after 1,5 months of no contact. Proposed to meet for a walk. I declinded. Then she told she misses me. As much as I would like to turn back time, it would be self-destructing, I suppose.Good for you. Keep up the good work. That shows self esteem. As tempting as it may be to not do so, I would block her number. It looks like she's trying to hoover you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey383 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Hi Jingle, As the wonderful Mikey points out, you should have cut all ties the minute this holiday with the "ex" came up. It's a good lesson learned though.. I'm sure you will find someone much better soon. Thanks Sputnik. I am with you.... Who the hell does that???!!! If I met a woman, and she told me that... I would be GONE in a heartbeat brother... That there alone is a huge RED FLAG... Much bigger than the one waiving in North Korea...haha... How have you been Sputnik? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik123 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 hello Mikey, I'm doing O.K buddy.. just keeping it moving! Strangely, this morning the ex reaches out after 3 months of completely nothing to ask if I still want something that's at her house (couldn't make this rubbish up!). I won't spare her my time to reply ;) How are things with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey383 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 hello Mikey, I'm doing O.K buddy.. just keeping it moving! Strangely, this morning the ex reaches out after 3 months of completely nothing to ask if I still want something that's at her house (couldn't make this rubbish up!). I won't spare her my time to reply ;) How are things with you? Doing good bud. My has been "Hoovering" with "Private","Hidden number" calls... Started 2 months ago... Every couple of weeks or so I get one... Luckily I have an app that deflects those calls... So, they all go to limbo... Too easy....haha... Out of being curious I checked the app and discovered that I only would receive those calls when she was not with me...haha Together for 2.5 years: No calls Broke up for 3 months (I blocked her number): 4 calls from a private number, 4 calls from a blocked number (her number was the only one I blocked).. Together again for 3 months: No Calls Since the final break up 7 months ago: The last 2 months I received about 4 calls... Go figure this out? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.