Need FWB Advice

[Batya33]

I can only speak for myself. FWB is generally not for me, but I have had a couple of friendships where lines got blurred. In one instance, I was friends with a guy that I had also briefly dated for a couple of months. Our friendship lasted for years after dating. I saw him several times a month. There was one particular night where we were both drinking and I planned to spend the night. I knew he still liked me. I didn't feel the same way about him anymore. But on this night, I had a moment where I was seriously tempted to hook up with him. I knew it would have gone my way if I had tried, that I'd been clear and he really couldn't "say" anything. But I knew that I would be taking advantage of his feelings, which would pretty much make me a dog. I knew that he could interpret it as more, despite the fact that I'd been clear about how I felt. I didn't want to confuse the sh-t out of him. So I went to bed a little frustrated that night. Big deal. 10+ years later I feel good when I look back and know that I didn't mess with my friend's head for my own personal satisfaction.

 

I see it the same way in Freckles's situation. Yes, she's part of the problem. But now that he knows her feelings, if he still doesn't share them and continues with the arrangement blithely touting "FWB," he's taking advantage. I don't give myself a pass on something like that, and I wouldn't give him one either.

 

I think in the situation you described you hadn't told him while sober, before the evening "I will stay over and if something happens that's ok but I don't want to date you again/want a relationship again" and you couldn't say anything while he was drunk because then you can't deliver a clear message (also because you chose to drink and stay over) and you really don't know what he'd hear under the influence. Without the convo while sober, I agree with you. If you had had the convo while sober and he assured you he could handle his own feelings and it would be fun to hook up then I think you would have said enough and been assured that he as an adult made a certain decision. You also chose to blur the lines by drinking and staying over (unless you had no choice, i.e. too drunk to drive). In the OP's case they do not have a friendship, they've never dated or been in a romantic relationship (and you dated this guy) and he was clear with her as to what he wanted from her. She then took the risk of getting drunk and chose the consequences of feeling even more attached.

 

i also think if people want a sexual arrangement -they are prioritizing the sex over the risks of getting emotionally attached - then they have the responsibility to be clear and own their own feelings and it's unfair later to blame the other person for lines getting blurred or put the onus on the other person to protect you from your own feelings. It is fair to put the onus on the other person to tell you if he/she wants more, if she is pregnant, if he/she was exposed to an STD, etc. Once the other person tells you she/he wants more and his/her sex partner does not want more, then the one who wants more needs to make the choice as to whether to stay because the benefits of the sex are worth it or seek someone who wants the same thing. If the sex is still enjoyable to both people then the arrangement continues because it's a sexual arrangement.

 

I agree with boltnrun "but he never once told me we were an exclusive committed couple and he had never called me his girlfriend. So, was anyone to "blame"? Sure, I was hurt but I took it as a learning lesson...don't assume just because a man seems to enjoy spending time with me and enjoys physical contact, that means he wants me to be his girlfriend. I had to take responsibility for my choices and for not attempting to clarify until nearly a year had gone by.

 

Now I know...if a man says he doesn't want a relationship it's up to me if I want to give him sex. And if I do, it MUST be with the understanding that it will not "turn into" a relationship, no matter how many times he cuddles me or texts me when he has a bad day or does anything else "couple-y"."

 

And I think this is why so many people refer to it as "FWB" when it's someone you met and decided to have sex with when you're both in the mood. It shows that for many it's an uncomfortable arrangement because of the risk of emotional attachment and the risk of someone claiming that lines got blurred, jealousy, etc - so people rely on misleading euphemisms to water it down and tell themselves it's two "friends" getting "benefits". But I am sure it works for many people who keep things separate and who prioritize the sexual pleasure above all else so that if those pesky emotions get in the way they can handle it /it's worth it because of the sexual pleasure.

[ThatwasThen]

Where is the Op? All this speculating is frustrating. I'd like to know what her end dating goal is and if its to be with him in an exclusive relationship then why did she frame her question to make it look like she didn't want more then to be sex buddies?

[figureitout23]

 

Now I know...if a man says he doesn't want a relationship it's up to me if I want to give him sex. And if I do, it MUST be with the understanding that it will not "turn into" a relationship, no matter how many times he cuddles me or texts me when he has a bad day or does anything else "couple-y"."

 

And I think this is why so many people refer to it as "FWB" when it's someone you met and decided to have sex with when you're both in the mood. It shows that for many it's an uncomfortable arrangement because of the risk of emotional attachment and the risk of someone claiming that lines got blurred, jealousy, etc - so people rely on misleading euphemisms to water it down and tell themselves it's two "friends" getting "benefits". But I am sure it works for many people who keep things separate and who prioritize the sexual pleasure above all else so that if those pesky emotions get in the way they can handle it /it's worth it because of the sexual pleasure.

 

Re the bold I think this was discussed in the sex forum before and other places so Im well versed on your judgement, critique, annoyance whatever you want to call it of using the proper verbiage when it comes to sexual relationships and I've said before, I feel your insistence things be labeled right is centered in judgement of women who choose to engage in these situations, which is your prerogative, fine whatever, this situation doesn't fit that though.

 

As Katrina and others pointed out it seems very much like a muddied situation where for whatever reason he pulls her in and keeps her at a distance at his convieneince, probably some commitment issues or or as someone else pointed out maybe she's wording things unclearly so they're both kinda dancing around each other. Again this isn't a black and white sex exchange, there's tons of grey area here, but you're right it's up to the OPer to guard her heart and look out for her best interest.

 

OPer, if you come back to read this, tread carefully. If you continue since he is telling you, it will be at your risk, good luck.

[ThatwasThen]

She is NOT a victim. She is a human being capable of having free choice. If she chooses to continue on with someone she knows doesn't want more then it's on her, not him. Women who make victims out of other women who choose to continue on screwing someone that will not commit to them aren't doing woman any favors IMHO.

 

Any one with a very limited set of boundaries should know enough to back away from someone that doesn't want what they want. The thing in this situation is that Op wants more but she framed her conversation with him to make it look like she was the one that didn't want more, which she likely did because she's not secure in the dynamic and didn't want the rejection so she rejected instead and kept herself emotionally safe.

 

It's NOT the guys responsibility to end something that a woman is insisting on. It is her responsibility to look after her own emotional well being.

[katrina1980]

>>It's NOT the guy's responsibility to end something that a woman is insisting on. It is her responsibility to look after her own emotional well being.

 

---

 

^Yeah, not sure if I articulated myself properly in my previous posts, but my sentiment exactly.

[katrina1980]

Re the "dancing around each other" (as figureitout wrote), this makes sense.

 

And believe it might suggest OP has commitment issues of her own. People with these issues seem to gravitate to each other; it can be a very powerful chemistry.

 

I'm quite adept at this myself, having struggled with same or similar issues.

 

I'm still struggling! These types of issues are really tough to conquer.

 

I think this is also why OP worded her response to him the way she did. Non-committal even though she "claims" to wanting more.

[boltnrun]

I think it was fear of rejection.

 

"Well, it's fine with me if you don't want to, but I have feelings for you and it would be kinda cool if we could be in a relationship. But if not, I'm totally cool with that".

 

Instead of "I am developing feelings for you and would like us to start dating. I understand if you don't feel the same way, but if you don't I won't be continuing with this arrangement we currently have because it won't be healthy for me".

[Jibralta]

I think in the situation you described you hadn't told him while sober, before the evening "I will stay over and if something happens that's ok but I don't want to date you again/want a relationship again" and you couldn't say anything while he was drunk because then you can't deliver a clear message (also because you chose to drink and stay over) and you really don't know what he'd hear under the influence. Without the convo while sober, I agree with you. If you had had the convo while sober and he assured you he could handle his own feelings and it would be fun to hook up then I think you would have said enough and been assured that he as an adult made a certain decision. You also chose to blur the lines by drinking and staying over (unless you had no choice, i.e. too drunk to drive). In the OP's case they do not have a friendship, they've never dated or been in a romantic relationship (and you dated this guy) and he was clear with her as to what he wanted from her. She then took the risk of getting drunk and chose the consequences of feeling even more attached.

 

Batya, this makes me feel like I'm reading my health insurance documentation. There are so many technicalities in your reasoning that simply didn't exist in our friendship and have no place there. It really makes it sound like people are signing an agreement to have a relationship and it's just not that transactional. At least I've never had such a transactional relationship.

 

Anyway, I still agree with myself (and possibly FigureItOut if she's still on this boat): Now that he knows her feelings, if he still doesn't share them and continues with the arrangement blithely touting "FWB," he's taking advantage. I don't give myself a pass on something like that, and I wouldn't give him one either. A sexual arrangement shouldn't negate respect.

 

Me not giving this dude "a pass" isn't throwing him in jail or besmirching his good name, so I'm not sure why it's met with so much controversy.

 

And yes they do have a friendship, and I still think that his behavior blurs the lines of his words.

 

he texts me every day, he asks to see me every other day, we talk about our lives, and even spend the night together/snuggle. He even opened up to me about his past (a girl really hurt him), but remains adamant we are just friends, which I was fine with.

 

He kept trying to ignore the question, but eventually said he felt bad about me having feelings for him and getting upset, and that if I need him to pull away he will.

 

Yeah, I think he's an opportunist. Down there with hyenas and buzzards on the food chain. And Freckles ought to get her head on straight. Just my opinion.

[ThatwasThen]

Now that he knows her feelings, if he still doesn't share them and continues with the arrangement blithely touting "FWB," he's taking advantage.

Where did you read that he knows her true feelings? She hasn't told him her true feelings... all she said was that she needs to back away for a bit because feelings are developing. No where no how did she say, I have developed feelings for you and would like to see this relationship advance past eff buddies.

 

I also disagree with your assertion that he is taking advantage... She is the one that said she needed to step back if they were going to continue, not him. That implies that she wants to carry on no matter how he feels about her. That's on her, certainly not him.

 

I'm confused as to why you paint her as a victim and are accusing him of taking advantage. She is the one that called the shots, not him. She did so in the way she framed her so called "feelings" on the subject.

 

With newfound drunken confidence I told him that if we wanted this to continue, we needed to separate a bit more because it's getting hard for me to just keep this as sex when we seem to be getting close.

That is far different from. "I have developed feelings for you, how are you feeling about trying out being in a committed, serious relationship?" If he continued on with her after her being honest like that and he didn't feel the same then I could see your point but he's not done that and you unfairly put the onus on him. She has not told him that she doesn't want to quit but rather just step back a bit. Its not even been established clearly that he doesn't want the same thing she does. They have piss poor communication skills the two of them.

[Batya33]

Batya, this makes me feel like I'm reading my health insurance documentation. There are so many technicalities in your reasoning that simply didn't exist in our friendship and have no place there. It really makes it sound like people are signing an agreement to have a relationship and it's just not that transactional. At least I've never had such a transactional relationship.

 

Anyway, I still agree with myself (and possibly FigureItOut if she's still on this boat): Now that he knows her feelings, if he still doesn't share them and continues with the arrangement blithely touting "FWB," he's taking advantage. I don't give myself a pass on something like that, and I wouldn't give him one either. A sexual arrangement shouldn't negate respect.

 

Me not giving this dude "a pass" isn't throwing him in jail or besmirching his good name, so I'm not sure why it's met with so much controversy.

 

And yes they do have a friendship, and I still think that his behavior blurs the lines of his words.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I think he's an opportunist. Down there with hyenas and buzzards on the food chain. And Freckles ought to get her head on straight. Just my opinion.

 

Actually I think if you're going to have a sex partner you do have to be prepared to be very specific about health-related boundaries and to a lesser extent emotional boundaries. That way you avoid or decrease the woman (usually the woman, not always!) regretting her decision and blaming the man and typically then becoming cynical about men. I think sexual arrangements are far more transactional than dating -even casual dating -because in casual dating you might have sex right away but it's less typical. And in dating where you both are looking to see if there's potential for the long term it's within a structure that most people understand and if you're not having intercourse yet you don't have to consider all the health related ramifications with a person you don't know well.

 

I don't think these two had a strong friendship and then decided to have sex when they felt like it. I mean a situation where people who are already close friends decide to add sex to the mix- pillow talk or chatting when you're getting together to have sex can be friendly but that's not the kind of friendship I'm referring to. I think she settled for scraps from early on and didn't just want a close friend who she had sex with when the mood struck them. That's my sense -she was not honest with herself.

[figureitout23]

Where did you read that he knows her true feelings? She hasn't told him her true feelings... all she said was that she needs to back away for a bit because feelings are developing. No where no how did she say, I have developed feelings for you and would like to see this relationship advance past eff buddies.

 

I also disagree with your assertion that he is taking advantage... She is the one that said she needed to step back if they were going to continue, not him. That implies that she wants to carry on no matter how he feels about her. That's on her, certainly not him.

 

I'm confused as to why you paint her as a victim and are accusing him of taking advantage. She is the one that called the shots, not him. She did so in the way she framed her so called "feelings" on the subject.

 

That is far different from. "I have developed feelings for you, how are you feeling about trying out being in a committed, serious relationship?" If he continued on with her after her being honest like that and he didn't feel the same then I could see your point but he's not done that and you unfairly put the onus on him. She has not told him that she doesn't want to quit but rather just step back a bit. Its not even been established clearly that he doesn't want the same thing she does. They have piss poor communication skills the two of them.

 

 

I think this post has gone on for so long with the OPer not coming back to clarify that things are getting lost in translation.

 

 

I guess I teared up a little bit because this triggers the dude to start full on crying. I was so confused at the time and we just kind of cried and laid down while our friends were like is going on. He admitted to having a small amount of feelings for me, but still not wanting more.

 

When we woke up in the morning I asked him why he got upset. He kept trying to ignore the question, but eventually said he felt bad about me having feelings for him and getting upset, and that if I need him to pull away he will. We agreed to forget about the whole thing for now, and even joked about it when he drove me home.

 

 

Now we can argue who's responsible for walking away, speaking up, etc. and I think the convo went way left with some side arguments about roles and responsibilities of sexual relationships, I've enjoyed reading everyone's views so I'm not knocking it but to me based on her post it's clear this is not a black and white sex thing where they had an agreement and he's following it while she's flipping the script, and not confessing her feelings. With this situation I think he is quite aware which caused his tears, something he admitted to, so if this continues as is they're BOTH Playing with Fire.

[ThatwasThen]

He admitted to having a small amount of feelings for me, but still not wanting more.

What the fagooley would you say if someone just told you that they wanted to step back a bit because feelings were starting which implies that the person wanting to back off doesn't want feelings to develop.

 

She rejected anything further by the way she framed her talk with him. I have a feeling he will start to back off now thinking that she only wants to be eff buddies.

 

Neither one of them are mature enough to be in a casual sexual dynamic. You have to be able to talk openly and honestly about things and forgo the ego.

 

I still want to know why she just didn't come out and tell him she wanted to advance their 'relationship?'

[Jibralta]

I didn't get the impression that she wanted to advance the relationship. To me, it seemed like she wanted to back off so that she could maintain the friendship dynamic and not tempt deeper feelings.

[figureitout23]

I need answers, someone go find the OPer 😂

[Jibralta]

Get back here, Freckles!

[ThatwasThen]

I didn't get the impression that she wanted to advance the relationship. To me, it seemed like she wanted to back off so that she could maintain the friendship dynamic and not tempt deeper feelings.

 

Then why all the rhetoric about him taking responsibility for HER emotional well being?

 

I'm sure that her FB thought the same thing due to her ambiguity and not being honest about the whole situation.

[Jibralta]

I never said for him to take responsibility for her feelings.

[ThatwasThen]

I never said for him to take responsibility for her feelings.

 

Well that's gaslighting. ^^

 

You may not have said exactly those words but when you say this:

I see it the same way in Freckles's situation. Yes, she's part of the problem. But now that he knows her feelings, if he still doesn't share them and continues with the arrangement blithely touting "FWB," he's taking advantage. I don't give myself a pass on something like that, and I wouldn't give him one either.

you are implying that he should be responsible for her feelings.

[katrina1980]

Just chiming in to say that on a personal level, I am learning a hell of a lot from this thread!

 

TwT, we've had our moments but your posts are spot on!

 

I hope wherever she is, OP is reading all this too, and realizing how important the "honest" disclosure of feelings, desires, and what you truly want, are.

 

All this "dancing around each other" and ambiguity only confuses things more and will actually prevent you from getting what you truly want.

 

Wow.

[Jibralta]

Well that's gaslighting. ^^

 

You may not have said exactly those words but when you say this: you are implying that he should be responsible for her feelings.

 

Stop. It's not gaslighting. Taking advantage of and being responsible for are different things.

 

Don't get upset over nothing.

[ThatwasThen]

Stop. It's not gaslighting. Taking advantage of and being responsible for are different things.

 

Don't get upset over nothing.

I'm not upset at all, just pointing out where you've contradicted yourself. You still are by the way.

[figureitout23]

Well that's gaslighting. ^^

 

You may not have said exactly those words but when you say this: you are implying that he should be responsible for her feelings.

 

I didn't get that from her post at all.

[katrina1980]

A bit confused myself.

 

@ Jibralta (and whomever else wants to chime in), do you think he should take responsibility for ending the relationship even though OP insists on continuing it?

 

Which in the end, is what she conveyed to him.

[figureitout23]

A bit confused myself.

 

@ Jibralta (and whomever else wants to chime in), do you think he should take responsibility for ending the relationship even though OP insists on continuing it?

 

Which in the end, is what she conveyed to him.

 

Where did she 'insist' on anything? That's what I mean about so much being lost in translation. Not once did I see in her post where she insisted on anything.

 

They're both being indirect with their interactions after the whole drunk thing and I got the impression they simply dropped the subject even though she kinda sorta told him she wanted space because she has feelings even though he kinda sorta said he has feelings too but deffinetely doesn't want a relationship and put the decision in her hands

[ThatwasThen]

Op is probably wrapped up in her eff buddy and no longer cares about anything else but in the moment.