Red Flag if the guy on first date does not pay for my food?

[Batya33]

Here’s what I do.

 

I insist to split if the date was bad. Then there’s no guilt.

 

If the date was good, I offer to pay, let him pay if he says no, and then I say “well how about we follow up with drinks/ice cream/whatever, my treat?” OR “sounds good, I’ll get the next one”

 

Win win.

 

Same here!

[limichelle]

I personally feel guilty if a guy pays. I mean its his money! My boyfriend on our first date insisted he pay. It was at Starbucks and the drinks were not bad so I felt good about it.

He asked me out to a movie the following weekend and even though he asked I split the cost with him. For one he doesnt have a lot of money and neither do I.

 

So we have made it work for five months taking turns or splitting the cost.

 

OP just because he asked doesnt mean he has to pay.

 

 

Lisa

[DaisyMayPorter]

You should have let him pay. He thinks you don’t like him. End of story.

[Sportster2005]

I always offer to pay on the first date, and the guys say no except this one

 

If your offer to pay isn't sincere, don't offer. If it is, then don't complain. No one should feel entitled to a free meal.

[Sportster2005]

I agree with the idea that the first few dates indicates how a guy will be in the relationship. In my last long term relationship, my ex wanted to split the first 4 dates. Or was it 5? He had a great job but turned out to be the stingiest guy I've ever met.

 

How dare he not give you the money he earned.

[itsallgrand]

I was born in the 1950's and didn't come with this hardwiring, nor was it installed along the way. I don't see it in my peers in the part of the world I live in either. At least in my family of origin we were taught to carry our own weight, to be straightforward, not to feel entitled, and to pitch in where needed.

 

I love you so much.

[boltnrun]

So if you didn't want to pay (or thought you shouldn't have to), why did you offer and then insist?

[figureitout23]

Oh boy OPer, you opened a can of worms. This topic has been discussed ad nauseam and every time, I come to the same conclusion. The consensus here is not the general consensus of the actual dating world. So don't freak out about the snarky responses. Any man or woman who actually spends this much time freaking out about 'his' money or 'her' money. Run. The check tango can be awkward, just do what feels natural. No two people have the same dating rules. If you feel your dating styles don't match, then that's how you feel. If you're unsure, give things another chance and see how it goes.

 

 

I'm am an older generation. I run 3 companies - I don't think paying for date someone asked me to be on shows whether I am independent or not. Being independent means being able to do things by yourself. Splitting a bill on your first date equals you see him as a friend. But heck, I treat my friends, and it's non-sexual.

 

And if someone is "Independent", then why even bother being in a partnership.

 

I have also found that most men who are not abundant with means generally make more noise that it should be 50/50 on dates.

 

And generation, sure it doesn't matter, but for someone who acts out of the norm isn't generally normal. So with my generation, men paid the first few dates. Heck, all my father's friends, my brother's friends, my father, my brother, my relatives, all paid for their ladies + their vacations. So, I don't think it's too out there for a woman to expect a man to pay for the date he asked her on.

 

I agree with the idea that the first few dates indicates how a guy will be in the relationship. In my last long term relationship, my ex wanted to split the first 4 dates. Or was it 5? He had a great job but turned out to be the stingiest guy I've ever met.

 

So refreshing to see these responses. I usually feel like a lone wolf not attacking women when this topic comes up.

[j.man]

So refreshing to see these responses. I usually feel like a lone wolf not attacking women when this topic comes up.

Who's attacking women?

[thealchemist]

I believe in an egalitarian relationship. A woman independent enough to pay for half of the meal on the first date would be a positive sign for me.

 

If a woman didn't offer to pay that in itself wouldn't necessarily be a bad sign though.

 

From my view though if a woman obviously expected me to pay without question there would not be a second date. Or if the woman plays the whole "I am going to act like I'll pay but have zero intention to" and gets upset when I accept her offer to pay I wouldn't bother with a second date.

 

The worst though is from the other side. If a man refuses to allow a woman to pay even at her insistence then if I were the woman I would run.

[Batya33]

If your offer to pay isn't sincere, don't offer. If it is, then don't complain. No one should feel entitled to a free meal.

 

My offers were sincere and almost none followed up. What I did not appreciate is the man picking and insisting on dinner at a pricey restaurant when I had countered with drinks /coffee(yes, it's a free country and yes, I gave in when he insisted and no I did not want a free meal) and then when I offered to pay half (because like muslovedogs I didn't want another date) he accepted - and I found that impolite on his part since he knew I went along with his insistence on dinner, and at a fancy restaurant.

 

And then there's my favorite date story on this - met the guy for dessert, through on line but he actually ordered quite a bit so the bill for 2 was around $30. I knew I didn't want to see him again (he was odd/weird) and I said clearly when the bill came "I'll pay half" or something like that - and he said enthusiastically "thank you for offering to pay! I love being pampered!" Given his attitude and the amount of the bill I said politely "oh I said I would pay my half" And I did.

 

I don't think necessarily who asks, pays but if the person chooses a place that the other person can't afford -date or no (meaning even friends) then the one who can should offer in advance to pick up the check or most of it. I've done that on my end if I wanted to go/stay at a certain place out of my friend's budget

[IAmFCA]

Sharing for perspective

 

I went for drinks on a first meet. I was terribly late, can't remember why. It was a small tb, we had each gotten one drink. I offered to pay the whole thing or split it. He declined my offer and paid. He said maybe 20% of the time the woman offers to share, and that he really appreciated my offer.

 

We went out again, more than once I think, I dont remember. He would let me pay if I offered, and we seemed to take turns. But this one date, I really wanted him to insist on paying. I dont think I was right, but I think its an interesting point. I wanted more leadership from him, vaguely more masculine. It was the same time he remarked that he enjoys dating strong women.

 

i ended up feeling like I was going to be the breadwinner and he was going to be accommodating me (i don't want the feeling of either role). It was a big turn off. Him insisting on paying would have broken that behavior pattern. It wasnt about the money, it was about asserting himself in some way.

[mustlovedogs]

If he had asserted himself in planning a date or insisting you order a certain entree, would that have worked?

 

I make good money and I do not want to support a guy. In my opinion, it’s only fair (and reasonable) to expect the same in reverse. We should each hold our own.

[IAmFCA]

If he had asserted himself in planning a date or insisting you order a certain entree, would that have worked?

 

I make good money and I do not want to support a guy. In my opinion, it’s only fair (and reasonable) to expect the same in reverse. We should each hold our own.

 

Agree. And yes, I think it would have made a difference. He has a model quality body, is outdoors a lot, works on his own house, is an engineer, has a good career. But interpersonally I found him more like beefcake looking for a sugar mama. i dont quite know why.

 

so yeah, it wasnt about who paid in its purest sense. I wanted to see him as a leader and i just... didnt.

[itsallgrand]

I think the OP isn't being honest with herself. She does expect the man to pay because he is the man. If she didn't feel that way, she wouldn't be upset at him for taking her up on her offer to pay ( her portion, not even the whole bill ). She wouldn't have allowed her ex to pay for almost everything during their relationship, with her taking a role of doing a little something here and there as a token. I think she has a very specific idea of what a dynamic when it comes to money should be when a man likes her - and that's that he will do the bulk of treating, allowing her to feign paying her share but not actually having her do it.

[Batya33]

Sharing for perspective

 

I went for drinks on a first meet. I was terribly late, can't remember why. It was a small tb, we had each gotten one drink. I offered to pay the whole thing or split it. He declined my offer and paid. He said maybe 20% of the time the woman offers to share, and that he really appreciated my offer.

 

We went out again, more than once I think, I dont remember. He would let me pay if I offered, and we seemed to take turns. But this one date, I really wanted him to insist on paying. I dont think I was right, but I think its an interesting point. I wanted more leadership from him, vaguely more masculine. It was the same time he remarked that he enjoys dating strong women.

 

i ended up feeling like I was going to be the breadwinner and he was going to be accommodating me (i don't want the feeling of either role). It was a big turn off. Him insisting on paying would have broken that behavior pattern. It wasnt about the money, it was about asserting himself in some way.

 

But why did you need to assert himself in the particular situation where you had offered to pay? Had he asserted himself in other situations? Also of course a first meet isn't a date so while I've been paid for on a first meet I don't expect the offer -no one asked anyone out on a date -you're two strangers trying to see if a date should happen in the future.

 

I don't like cheapness or stinginess -so, when I got movie tickets in advance (my treat) it was fine that he didn't offer to reimburse me for his ticket. He was silent. It was not ok, when I got up to get a snack and asked if he wanted anything -that he accepted my offer, didn't offer to go instead and from what I recall didn't say thank you when I brought the snacks -or offer to pay/reimburse, whatever. And it wasn't ok, a different time, different guy - when he wanted to meet at the cafe in his building but not for a meal (he had already shown some stinginess). But I was hungry, I ordered a sandwich and made it clear I'd pay (in case he thought I was trying to take advantage) I offered to share and he ate half of the sandwich - Mr. I'm Not Hungry/we're not meeting for a meal. When the bill came, -yes, I expected him to offer to at least chip in given what transpired and found it cheap that he didn't. I would have even in a non-date situation.

[IAmFCA]

But why did you need to assert himself in the particular situation where you had offered to pay? Had he asserted himself in other situations? Also of course a first meet isn't a date so while I've been paid for on a first meet I don't expect the offer -no one asked anyone out on a date -you're two strangers trying to see if a date should happen in the future.

 

I don't like cheapness or stinginess -so, when I got movie tickets in advance (my treat) it was fine that he didn't offer to reimburse me for his ticket. He was silent. It was not ok, when I got up to get a snack and asked if he wanted anything -that he accepted my offer, didn't offer to go instead and from what I recall didn't say thank you when I brought the snacks -or offer to pay/reimburse, whatever. And it wasn't ok, a different time, different guy - when he wanted to meet at the cafe in his building but not for a meal (he had already shown some stinginess). But I was hungry, I ordered a sandwich and made it clear I'd pay (in case he thought I was trying to take advantage) I offered to share and he ate half of the sandwich - Mr. I'm Not Hungry/we're not meeting for a meal. When the bill came, -yes, I expected him to offer to at least chip in given what transpired and found it cheap that he didn't. I would have even in a non-date situation.

 

Batya I can’t remember what it was about that date that bugged me about paying. I’d have to go through my journal, yikes. It’s bad enough the first time around lol.

 

The date where I wished he paid went like this... we went to a museum that was free. We saw a movie. These both were his idea. We got popcorn. For some reason this felt awkward, I offered to split or pay and he sort of laughed and that he could handle it. After we felt like hot chocolate, I drove us to a place nearby that I knew about, we ended up eating a full meal, I paid.

 

It bugged me that he didn’t know where to go, nor how to look up where to go. He goes to this part of town a lot. He had no plan b for the date. I ended up in the lead about what to do, where to go, how to get there, driving, paying. It’s silly, but it left me Flat. Maybe his company wasn’t compelling enough. Plus the strong woman comment set me off... like, what, a strong woman is a rare breed? Wouldn’t everyone want a strong partner of whatever gender? The whole thing was just not meant for me.

 

Later, after no more dating, he sent me a pic of him reclining in front of a Xmas tree. Um, naked. With some prop hiding the privates. I mean, I hadn’t so much as seen a bicep much less the rest of him. Don’t remember if we ever kissed, or maybe just once or twice. And the pose struck me as feminine, like a woman on her side so the waist/hip curve is accentuated.

 

Lol paying wasn’t the issue. But it fed into a pattern of me feeling like he was following me.

[journeynow]

My offers were sincere and almost none followed up. What I did not appreciate is the man picking and insisting on dinner at a pricey restaurant when I had countered with drinks /coffee(yes, it's a free country and yes, I gave in when he insisted and no I did not want a free meal) and then when I offered to pay half (because like muslovedogs I didn't want another date) he accepted - and I found that impolite on his part since he knew I went along with his insistence on dinner, and at a fancy restaurant.

 

And then there's my favorite date story on this - met the guy for dessert, through on line but he actually ordered quite a bit so the bill for 2 was around $30. I knew I didn't want to see him again (he was odd/weird) and I said clearly when the bill came "I'll pay half" or something like that - and he said enthusiastically "thank you for offering to pay! I love being pampered!" Given his attitude and the amount of the bill I said politely "oh I said I would pay my half" And I did.

 

I don't think necessarily who asks, pays but if the person chooses a place that the other person can't afford -date or no (meaning even friends) then the one who can should offer in advance to pick up the check or most of it. I've done that on my end if I wanted to go/stay at a certain place out of my friend's budget

 

Instead of paying half, why not cover your part of the order, and order within your budget?

 

{Edit} These discussions baffle me. But then, I would not go on a date to a pricey restaurant with someone I barely know. Pricey is not my style, so it would feel like a mismatch to me that early on. It's different if we've become a couple and know that we already have much in common, and the pricey restaurant is clearly a special celebration of some sort, not an expectation.

[IAmFCA]

More re paying... the man who said he’d pay or I could pay, whatever was my preference ... (that was Slush) is the same man who, over the course of getting to know me, used paying as a test and a symbol. $5 salads but he got himself through the checkout ahead of me to make sure I was paying for myself - a sign it was a friends lunch and/or a test to see if I expected to coast on his wallet. Over time he began to pay on purpose.

 

When we first met, he was clear about asking me out and he was clear about his intentions so I let him pay; doubt I even offered because his lead was very clear. I try to be ready to pay in any situation; if I’ve been invited and if I’ve felt taken care of, like he was hosting, then I don’t offer. instead I accept the gift. If I don’t feel hosted, I usually offer. It’s little behaviors, such as how he interacts with the restaurant staff or looks after my comfort, that informs my approach.

[katrina1980]

 

so yeah, it wasnt about who paid in its purest sense. I wanted to see him as a leader and i just... didnt.

 

I understand this. Preferring the man to take charge, to lead, which includes paying when he invites me out. At least in early stages.

 

It's also not about wanting a free meal, or a sense of entitlement, as some men believe. For me it goes deeper than that; it's more about yin and yang, masculine vs. feminine. For ME.

 

It's also a way for him to demonstrate his interest in me. Whether or not that is actually true, it's how I feel, deep inside. Based on how I was raised, what attracts me, among other things.

 

mustlovedogs said that she offers to pay when NOT interested. I know other women who do the same.

 

So why are women judged for feeling like when the man doesn't offer to pay, HE's not interested?

 

What I don't get is why the OP offered to pay in the first place. What was that, some sort of shyt test?

 

If she prefers the man to pay, which is fine in my opinion, then dont make the offer to pay and then resent him later for accepting the offer.

 

That is what's not fair.

[IAmFCA]

Instead of paying half, why not cover your part of the order, and order within your budget?

 

{Edit} These discussions baffle me. But then, I would not go on a date to a pricey restaurant with someone I barely know. Pricey is not my style, so it would feel like a mismatch to me that early on. It's different if we've become a couple and know that we already have much in common, and the pricey restaurant is clearly a special celebration of some sort, not an expectation.

 

I don’t like the practice of paying for what we each ordered because it puts so much emphasis on the precision of the dollar amount. I like that splitting is team oriented. However I’d never go out with that particular date just as Batya wouldn’t and didn’t... he was ignorant of her social cues in a way that imposed on her and was not at all graceful. Kudos to Batya for sticking to her half.

[IAmFCA]

I understand this. Preferring the man to take charge, to lead, which includes paying when he invites me out. At least in early stages.

 

It's also not about wanting a free meal, or a sense of entitlement, as some men believe.

 

mustlovedogs said that she offers to pay when NOT interested. I know other women who do the same.

 

So why are women judged for feeling like when the man doesn't offer to pay, HE's not interested?

 

What I don't get is why the OP offered to pay in the first place. What was that, some sort of shyt test?

 

If she prefers the man to pay, which is fine in my opinion, then dont make the offer to pay and then resent him later for accepting the offer.

 

That is what's not fair.

 

Totally agree with this!

 

She should not have offered if she would judge him for agreeing. That’s like entrapment when he was trying to be respectful.

 

Sometimes I have exerted control as she did, and I’ve found it’s a way of me expressing my ego, or of withholding the honor of letting him pay. Ha, parse that: the honor of letting him pay.

 

In any event, we can’t put too weight on what paying means, in the early stages. And always, say what we mean, and stand by it. That’s why when Slush asked me my preference, I asked him to pay. I like being embraced by him, and sothat’s what I signaled with my answer, or that I didn’t mind being one-down because we would see each other again to even it out.

[journeynow]

I don’t like the practice of paying for what we each ordered because it puts so much emphasis on the precision of the dollar amount. I like that splitting is team oriented. However I’d never go out with that particular date just as Batya wouldn’t and didn’t... he was ignorant of her social cues in a way that imposed on her and was not at all graceful. Kudos to Batya for sticking to her half.

 

In the case where you aren't happy with the date, the location, the prices, and not interested in taking the relationship further, keep your eye on what you are ordering and cover your cost. In the case where you ARE dating someone ongoing, hopefully you are better able to agree on a mutually acceptable location. I found, since I didn't drink or eat as much as my partner, nor make as much money, it was sometimes helpful to agree ahead of time that we would split the bill and I'd indicate what I had to contribute. Then I'd order accordingly within my budget. Maybe it's not romantic, but I had limited funds.

[katrina1980]

@ IAMFCA, feeling "embraced" by a man. I can relate to this too!

 

Love that feeling.

[itsallgrand]

I personally really dislike splitting, and prefer ( whether with a date, boyfriend, or friend or family) to either pay our own costs or someone treats .

 

I like journeynows pragmatic approach and relate to it. I don't agree to go out unless I have the money for it, and am comfortable with paying my way or perhaps treating. That works for me.

 

So much can be made easier by simply talking about it early on. And not being afraid ( or trying to rigidly stick to an idea of etiquette that the other may not share) to speak up about how you truly feel and think.

 

I would only find it rude if someone specifically said they are treating, then changed their mind after spending the the money or 'forgot their wallet' or overspent what they had. That and expecting me to automatically treat because I invite you, I find rude.

 

You can simply ask when in doubt. Saves a lot of grief. And don't offer if you are expecting the other to not take you up in it or pay you.