Why do we pick people who don't want us?

[Hollyj]

You liked the insta-relationship because you know they don't really know you and you know it's safe -you can always say "oh too soon!" because it is. It's all about sweet nothings and clouds -not reality so you don't have to commit to any of it and you know that many of those that start that way end quickly.

 

I think you're confusing maybe aloof with someone who is healthy and reasonably cautious with a new person -who might feel like going at the speed of light but wants to be a bit more restrained and disciplined so they don't burn out or overwhelm their partner.

 

Spot on!!!!!

 

Mandee, we are telling you the same thing. You can choose to listen, or continue on the path of choosing inappropriate men.

[Batya33]

Yes you are 100 percent right. The talks about feelings would not be necessary if the actions were there. He had zero actions. The way he acted was the opposite of what someone does when they like someone. So I felt the need to ask him direct questions. Thats where the talks would come in. He never had answers. The only action I had was he continued to want to see me . But nothing else. It wasnt the right situation overall.

 

But I agree. If a man treats you great and show it with consistent actions, there would be no reason for a "talk". And I def would not be asking how they feel. I would just know.

 

So if someone wasn't acting in a way that was consistent with being respectful, thoughtful, reliable and kind I wouldn't be confrontational but rather would respond in a way that showed how I expected to be treated. So if he wasn't reliable, I'd make other plans, for example. There is no need to ask "how do you feel about me". Rather, if you know yourself and your expectations, evaluate the situation to rule out that maybe the person wasn't feeling well/was stressed out -a one off -and if it's not a one off no need for a talk - simply decline another date early on. If you're already involved and the behavior changes then a comment like "I noticed that you didn't return my call the other day about our plan -what's going on?"

Of course this person didn't have answers to questions about "feelings" especially if it was done out of context, etc.

[katrina1980]

Yes you are 100 percent right. The talks about feelings would not be necessary if the actions were there. He had zero actions.

 

The way he acted was the opposite of what someone does when they like someone. So I felt the need to ask him direct questions. Thats where the talks would come in. He never had answers.

 

But I agree. If a man treats you great and show it with consistent actions, there would be no reason for a "talk". And I def would not be asking how they feel. I would just know.

 

No no no, you've got this wrong.

 

When a man's actions in early stages are the opposite of what a man does when he likes

you, you don't "talk" to him about it. What are you expecting him to say? He doesn't give a crap, no amount of talking is going to change that.

 

What you DO do is walk away!! Tell him it's not working for ya, and then move on.

 

Talking is for later, "after" a relationship has been established, trust has developed and feelings have been expressed.

 

Early stages are a time for observance. You're looking to see if a man is a good fit for you long term.

 

He's doing same about you.

 

If his actions reflect emotional unavailability, commitment issues, disinterest, indifference, then clearly he's not a good fit and you walk away!

 

Men (most) are not stupid. He will know why you're walking.

 

If he realizes you do mean something to him after all, and within himself desires to make changes, he knows where to find you.

[mandeelove]

And funny....this is EXACTLY my issue. I will stay and try to figure it out or blame everything else for the distance. But what I should be doing is walking away which is an action that would either make him step up or stay away.....

 

The whole point of my post is why do I stay even though the flags are there? Even when Im not getting needs met...

 

And They do start changing months later after feelings grow. Its never immediatly. Its always after I caught feelings. Hence the talks that I have. I would never have a talk with a guy I just met. This is months later that I have talks because they start to change and I do wannt to fix the relationship . I never brush things under the rug. Im very direct.

 

And the talks are "I've noticed your actions dont match your words.... etc". Im not saying are we getting married? Im asking specifically about what I see. When I asked the lasy guy these questions he always said it was work life and other personal things that made him too busy. He never said it was me. Thats why I stayed so long.

[Whocares479]

I can't fault you. I do the exact same. These emotional unavailable men go after me, then when I start to invest in them they do a 180. I continue to chase and chase until they stop replying. I don't know if its the case for you, but I have deep insecurities. There are guys who show me a lot of attention, and my interest falls short. Its terrible and I only have myself to blame.

 

I convinced myself its better to be in a toxic situation with a guy then to have no guy at all.

 

It's the lack of self worth I have for myself. Their rare good moments outweighs their numerous red flags. I am working on this and seeking counseling. I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

[katrina1980]

mandee, you never answered my earlier question.

 

As a professional therapist who makes a living advising and helping people, what do YOU advise women (or men) who come to you seeking help for the same issue?

 

We could all speculate what's wrong until hell freezes over, bottom line is it's up to you to introspect and search within for the answer.

 

How I deal with this is knowing what's best for me, who is a good fit for me, and even when feelings are there, having enough self-respect to walk away from a situation that isn't good for me, and exercising enough "self-discipline" such that I am able to do so and stick with it!

 

Even now, I sometimes have urges to reach out to a man I haven't quite been able to shake from my brain totally, but again I have enough strength and self-discipline to NOT do so because doing so would only hurt me in the end.

[mandeelove]

I can't fault you. I do the exact same. These emotional unavailable men go after me, then when I start to invest in them they do a 180. I continue to chase and chase until they stop replying. I don't know if its the case for you, but I have deep insecurities. There are guys who show me a lot of attention, and my interest falls short. Its terrible and I only have myself to blame.

 

I convinced myself its better to be in a toxic situation with a guy then to have no guy at all.

 

It's the lack of self worth I have for myself. Their rare good moments outweighs their numerous red flags. I am working on this and seeking counseling. I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

Thank you for your response. And Im sorry to hear that you go through similar things. Its great you are in counseling though. I hope to try counseling one day too.

 

Well its a little different for me. If a guy shows alot of interest I will like that. In the past I didnt. But Ive grown to like caring, attentive, and very interested types. But sometimes I will miss the red flags because I think they are very into me but it becomes borderline possessive/controlling. The care/love turns to jealousy and soon I have a very controlling man on my hands. This does not equal love and Ive learned that.

 

Or I will have the total opposite. Men who keep a distance and I have to do more leg work to keep it going.

 

But it all comes down to the same thing. No matter how it starts, I always wind up chasing and "saving" the relationship. And once I reach that point, they then switch it up and I have to do more. If I look at it from a distance I never really get the guy because I didnt have him to begin with.

[mandeelove]

mandee, you never answered my earlier question.

 

As a professional therapist who makes a living advising and helping people, what do YOU advise women (or men) who come to you seeking help for the same issue?

 

We could all speculate what's wrong until hell freezes over, bottom line is it's up to you to introspect and search within for the answer.

 

How I deal with this is knowing what's best for me, who is a good fit for me, and even when feelings are there, having enough self-respect to walk away from a situation that isn't good for me, and exercising enough "self-discipline" such that I am able to do so and stick with it!

 

Even now, I sometimes have urges to reach out to a man I haven't quite been able to shake from my brain totally, but again I have enough strength and self-discipline to NOT do so because doing so would only hurt me in the end.

To be honest, I believe it all comes from within too. Self discipline, self esteem, knowing your worth. Each person's situation is different and there's different factors to contribute. But the main thing I like to focus on is building self esteem and self worth. Interrupting a negative thought cycle. Positive self talk. I can go on and on. And of course self reflection, looking deeper into past childhood or experiences to see how it plays out today. Its not easy work but thats the kind of work we do along with much more.

 

I can advise any person to get out of a toxic relationship. I can give the best advice to friends, family, and clients but when it comes to me I have a hard time. Its like I KNOW what I should do but I do the opposite. I DEF think it has to do with self worth and self esteem for me. I see myself in a negative light. I am my own worst enemy and Im aware of this.

 

Like you mentioned. You have self discipline to not go back to that bad guy you know. I can get through months and months without a bad guy. I can live just fine and be happy. But if they call me after months or a year I will answer just like that. I have zero self discipline. Another thing I want to change.

[Batya33]

And funny....this is EXACTLY my issue. I will stay and try to figure it out or blame everything else for the distance. But what I should be doing is walking away which is an action that would either make him step up or stay away.....

 

The whole point of my post is why do I stay even though the flags are there? Even when Im not getting needs met...

 

And They do start changing months later after feelings grow. Its never immediatly. Its always after I caught feelings. Hence the talks that I have. I would never have a talk with a guy I just met. This is months later that I have talks because they start to change and I do wannt to fix the relationship . I never brush things under the rug. Im very direct.

 

And the talks are "I've noticed your actions dont match your words.... etc". Im not saying are we getting married? Im asking specifically about what I see. When I asked the lasy guy these questions he always said it was work life and other personal things that made him too busy. He never said it was me. Thats why I stayed so long.

 

But you are getting certain of your needs met- you want to avoid being alone, you like the challenge, you like the excitement and it's all safe. And I don't buy that you stayed so long because of his excuses. He didn't have to say it was you (he might not even have known what his motivations were) - if he didn't change his actions so that he treated you in a way that was consistent with you as a reasonably confident person looking for a healthful relationship, then it doesn't matter "why" - certainly you give someone a pass for a one off or two off but regularly substandard treatment? No excuse.

 

I gave a really good guy a chance many years ago -after three weeks I found his actions too insecure/clingy and I told him. And he said he wanted to change and was in therapy for that. He did change temporarily -maybe for about a week. I ended it two weeks later.

[katrina1980]

mandee, he wasn't (and isn't) a "bad" guy, I never said that. I don't feel that way.

 

He just wasn't right for me, nor do I suspect I was right for him.

 

I don't look at guys like that -- "bad guys" versus "good guys."

 

They're either a good fit (for me) or not.

 

I don't believe in the "bad guy" per se, unless he has a pattern of "intentionally" lying and screwing women over, and even then in my opinion he has serious psychological or even mental issues that cause him to be this way.

 

Some sort of psychopathy, anti-social behavior (narcissism, sociopath, etc)

 

Barring the above, I think all guys have it in them to be "good" guys when they find a women they care about, respect, and who they believe is a good fit for them.

[mandeelove]

mandee, he wasn't (and isn't) a "bad" guy, I never said that. I don't feel that way.

 

He just wasn't right for me, nor do I suspect I was right for him either.

 

I don't look at guys like that -- "good guys" versus "bad guys."

 

They're either a good fit (for me) or not.

 

I don't believe in the "bad guy" per se, unless he has a pattern of "intentionally" lying and screwing women over, and even then in my opinion he has serious psychological or even mental issues that cause him to be this way.

 

Some sort of psychopathy, anti-social behavior (narcissism, sociopath, etc)

 

Barring the above, I think all guys have it in them to be "good" guys when they find a women they care about, respect, and who they believe is a good fit for them.

Sorry for calling him a bad guy. I understand now he was only a bad fit for you. Either way you have that self discipline to stay away from him. I stay away to a degree. Im good at NC when it means I cant or wont call them. But if they call me even months later to catch up, I will answer. Even though I know catching up brings me back to a bad place.

 

I too think men can be good when they find the right women. All men and women can change for the best no matter their track record. But they have to want to. It takes work.

 

I always see the good in everyone or the potential. So if Im with a guy who is lacking due to personal life issues, I will cut him slack. I will have pity on him and it doesnt matter. I will put myself second and thats when this all starts. I have to realuze I can respect them or feel bad for them. But I dont need to necessarily stay in a relationship with them while I suffer.

[mandeelove]

But you are getting certain of your needs met- you want to avoid being alone, you like the challenge, you like the excitement and it's all safe. And I don't buy that you stayed so long because of his excuses. He didn't have to say it was you (he might not even have known what his motivations were) - if he didn't change his actions so that he treated you in a way that was consistent with you as a reasonably confident person looking for a healthful relationship, then it doesn't matter "why" - certainly you give someone a pass for a one off or two off but regularly substandard treatment? No excuse.

 

I gave a really good guy a chance many years ago -after three weeks I found his actions too insecure/clingy and I told him. And he said he wanted to change and was in therapy for that. He did change temporarily -maybe for about a week. I ended it two weeks later.

True, my needs are most definitely subconscious. I dont feel I have those needs but it must be there. Thats all I attract.

The only good stable guy I ever had was when I was 22 to 26 yrs old. And I let him go. And he was a great guy.

[Batya33]

True, my needs are most definitely subconscious. I dont feel I have those needs but it must be there. Thats all I attract.

 

Not subconscious at all -you're just choosing to ignore your motivations because you've painted a picture of how you are somehow the victim of these "bad" guys and how you have this negative view of men as not trustworthy or good (you wrote that above, now you say you presume all people are good from the get go -which is it?). It's easier to make those assumptions about why your dating/relationships are disappointing.

[katrina1980]

I hear ya, when they reach out weeks or months later, and I have had that happen a few times with different men, if feelings are still there it is very difficult to not respond.

 

I always respond, only because I think it's rude to just ignore; I don't like being ignored so won't ignore others, unless they're harassing me or something in which case I just block.

 

But even if you choose to respond, that doesn't mean you agree to jump back in.

 

If you think he's worth a second chance, assuming he ghosted, or otherwise treated you poorly, okay to interact, have fun with it, but be on guard a bit and observe. Let it play out.

 

A man's true intentions will show up eventually; meanwhile you have not allowed yourself to become too emotionally invested.

 

Also remember, no matter how many issues or problems you believe a man has, you are not "his" personal therapist or worse, his mother!

 

He may attempt to pull you into his personal dramas, with all his "demons" or whatever, but in the end if you end up in this sort of caretaker role, putting his needs before yours, he will most likely become bored, lose respect and value you less.

 

Value and respect yourself first! This has been said a zillion times but you can't expect a man to value and respect you if YOU don't value and respect yourself FIRST.

 

You know all this so just do it! It's like you're your own worst enemy.

 

It may also be a form of obsessive-compulsive.

 

You become obsessed with a guy, after which you compulsively act in your own "worst" interests, instead of your best interests.

 

Best to explore that possibility as well.

[mandeelove]

I hear ya, when they reach out weeks or months later, and I have had that happen a few times with different men, if feelings are still there it is very difficult to not respond.

 

I always respond, only because I think it's rude to just ignore; I don't like being ignored so won't ignore others, unless they're harassing me or something in which case I just block.

 

But even if you choose to respond, that doesn't mean you agree to jump back in.

 

If you think he's worth a second chance, assuming he ghosted, or otherwise treated you poorly, okay to interact, have fun with it, but be on guard a bit and observe. Let it play out.

 

A man's true intentions will show up eventually; meanwhile you have not allowed yourself to become too emotionally invested.

 

Also remember, no matter how many issues or problems you believe a man has, you are not "his" personal therapist or worse, his mother!

 

He may attempt to pull you into his personal dramas, with all his "demons" or whatever, but in the end if you end up in this sort of caretaker role, he will most likely become bored, lose respect and value you less.

 

Value and respect yourself first! This has been said a zillion times but you can't expect a man to value and respect you if YOU don't value and respect yourself FIRST.

 

You know all this so just do it! It's like you're your own worst enemy.

 

It may also be a form of obsessive-compulsive.

 

You become obsessed with a guy, after which you compulsively act in your own "worst" interests, instead of your best interests.

I agree with everything you say. And I am my own worst enemy 100 percent. Do I act like a caretaker or a mom? Most def. The men I pick have issues or demons absolutely. I just never thought theyd lose interest if I am there for them always. Interesting point....

 

And I know what you mean. If feelings are there its hard to not respond to a guy reaching back out. Im not sure what your history is with the men who reach out, but my history is poor. The men reaching out do not deserve any type of answer from me after months go by. I have answered them in the past to only get hurt again. I could have better boundaries when they come back but in these cases, these particular men are not ones to talk to again at all. Yet I have done it. This is what I want to and will stop.

 

The most recent ex came back about a month ago after 7 months. We spoke for 2 weeks and he went right back to the same stuff. It was unbelievable. So staying away altogether from certain men who hurt me is my goal . In rare cases a block is needed .

[ThatwasThen]

The men reaching out do not deserve any type of answer from me after months go by.

Damn straight, Mandee. They do NOT deserve anything from you, nothing!

 

Once burnt, twice shy... Leave them ghosted because they are more likely then not, just coming back to get what you're willing to give them without any commitment.

[katrina1980]

mandee, if you don't trust yourself with these guys who attempt to reconnect weeks or months later, then okay to ignore or better yet just block.

 

You need to consider your own best interests here!

 

I actually don't fault men for reaching out later, and will always respond, assuming there is still interest there are my part.

 

Only because I have done it myself! Ended it with a man, only to have second thoughts later.

 

In honesty, when I've done it, I don't even know what it is I want; all I know is I miss him and want to reach out.

 

That is probably selfish, so re-thinking doing this in the future unless I am 100% certain I want to get "back together."

 

But most times I don't know and just let it play out however it's meant to. I realize this can be mis-leading to men so like I said, don't do it anymore.

[mandeelove]

mandee, if you don't trust yourself with these guys who attempt to reconnect weeks or months later, then okay to ignore or better yet just block.

 

You need to consider your own best interests here!

 

I actually don't fault men for reaching out later, and will always respond, assuming there is still interest there are my part.

 

Only because I have done it myself! Ended it with a man, only to have second thoughts later.

 

In honesty, when I've done it, I don't even know what it is I want; all I know is I miss him and want to reach out.

 

That is probably selfish, so re-thinking doing this in the future unless I am 100% certain I want to get "back together."

 

But most times I don't know and just let it play out however it's meant to. I realize this can be mis-leading to men so like I said, don't do it anymore.

Yes true! Well in this one case of the man who returned a few weeks ago, he looked like he wanted to reconnect. He said things that were misleading, only to then say for the 100th time "I dont know what I want." To me its BS plus selfishness because he had 2 years to think about it. Thats how long we have been broken up. So every few months he tries to contact me and eventually goes back to the same line "I shouldnt have contacted you, I dont know what I want" or "its bad timing". Then Im left yet again with my heart in my hand.

 

I find that very selfish. In rare cases a reconnection is possible. Someone could genuinely miss someone and realize they were the love of their life etc. But I know myself and these guys very well so thats why ignoring from now on will be in my best interest.

[ThatwasThen]

A guy that goes away without explanation and then suddenly reappears is not someone that is interested in anything but what he can weasel out of you... A Guy who care about you would not just disappear and I'm at a loss as to why anyone who is dating with any seriousness would give someone that rude another chance. Men who do that are good for casual sex partners only and if you're heart is connected to your gennies then you'd do well to laugh and pass on any contact.

[katrina1980]

Yes true! Well in this one case of the man who returned a few weeks ago, he looked like he wanted to reconnect. He said things that were misleading, only to then say for the 100th time "I dont know what I want." To me its BS plus selfishness because he had 2 years to think about it. Thats how long we have been broken up. So every few months he tries to contact me and eventually goes back to the same line "I shouldnt have contacted you, I dont know what I want" or "its bad timing". Then Im left yet again with my heart in my hand.

 

I find that very selfish. In rare cases a reconnection is possible. Someone could genuinely miss someone and realize they were the love of their life etc. But I know myself and these guys very well so thats why ignoring from now on will be in my best interest.

 

Yes it is very selfish, which is why, even when the urge strikes to reach out myself, I won't anymore for these reasons.

 

Yes a man disappearing/ignoring/ghosting is inexcusable and anyone who does this clearly doesn't give a crap, or didn't at the time.

 

A woman is certainly within her rights to ignore if he returns or just block.

 

However, no need to start classifying all guys or even those guys as "bad" guys.

 

In some cases they very well may be, but in other cases, who knows, some people have fears and anxieties that cause them to act in very hurtful ways, without intending to.

 

Best to just not allow yourself to get pulled back in, and however you wish to accomplishing that -- ignoring, blocking, chatting casually with no expectations, is fine, in my opinion.

 

Whatever works best for YOU.

[ThatwasThen]

No need to start classifying all guys or even those guys as "bad" guys.

 

In some cases they may be, but in other cases, who knows, some people have fears and anxieties that cause them to act in very hurtful ways, without intending to.

Then why in all that is good would you give someone with those kinds of issues a second chance? They are not in the proper frame of mind to be serious with anyone in a romantic sense but they will certainly take what you're offering sexually. (you as the general you)

 

When you have a history of falling for losers or being in serial monogamous unions as a rule rather then the exception then it's best to keep yourself away with zero contact with anyone who can't go the distance with you. Missing someone is no excuse to chat to them when you're that vulnerable to them and the 'science' they have over you (the gen. you)

[katrina1980]

Then why in all that is good would you give someone with those kinds of issues a second chance. They are not in the proper frame of mind to be serious with anyone in a romantic sense but they certainly take what you're offering sexually.

 

I never said a woman should offer herself sexually if she chooses to give second chance. Not sure where you got that.

 

In fact what I've been saying is to NOT allow yourself to get pulled back in and I mean sexually and emotionally. Assuming a woman wished to speak with this person again.

 

For me, I have self-discipline and trust myself to act within my own best interests at all times.

 

This is why, depending on the circumstances surronding why he left, or why I left, or why we broke up, and what he said when he retuned, "I" am able to give second chance IF I feel he and the situation is worth the risk.

 

It's rare when I do, but if I do, believe me, I am very cautious, aware, avoid getting pulled back in.

 

There have been cases when after months of no contact, a man or woman has done enough introspection, and self-reflection to realize their issues and made changes.

 

I actually include myself in this group, which is perhaps why I am a bit more forgiving than some women.

 

But again, if a woman chooses to ignore or better yet block, that may be the better course of action for her.

 

Hope that explains!

 

ETA: I have been in LTRs most of my life, personally I do not pick "losers." If I did perhaps my attitude would be different.

 

I only had one man in my entire dating history "ghost." Well two if you count online "interactions" but we never "dated" so don't really count that.

 

My experiences have been good and positive for the most part, as I said just not a good fit.

[mandeelove]

Then why in all that is good would you give someone with those kinds of issues a second chance? They are not in the proper frame of mind to be serious with anyone in a romantic sense but they will certainly take what you're offering sexually. (you as the general you)

 

When you have a history of falling for losers or being in serial monogamous unions as a rule rather then the exception then it's best to keep yourself away with zero contact with anyone who can't go the distance with you. Missing someone is no excuse to chat to them when you're that vulnerable to them and the 'science' they have over you (the gen. you)

If theres feelings in my heart I wont settle for just a hook up. That is why I block them too. This one particular ex wants to shoot the breeze and lean on me. Or he wants an ego boost. I see no reason for a friendship because there are still feelings on my end. It doesnt make him bad to not have the same feelings. What makes him bad in my eyes is he plays games. He will connect with 3 exes at once. Tell us all the same lines with no intentions of wanting anyyy of us back. Pretty messed up. So yes block and ignore.

[ThatwasThen]

I never said a woman should offer herself sexually, even if she chooses to give second chance. Not sure where you got that.

I didn't say you did. I was inferring that a guy coming back after ghosting is more times then not just wanting sex and will take it if you are silly enough to give it again without commitment. (again the general you)

 

In fact what I've been saying is to NOT allow yourself to get pulled back in. Assuming a woman wished to speak with this person again.

 

For me, I have self-discipline and trust myself to act within my own best interests at all times.

I'm not so sure after what you've been saying about reaching out to ex's when you "miss" them but you know yourself more then I do, certainly.

 

This is why, depending on the circumstances re why he left with no explanation, and what he said when he returned, "I" am able to give second chance IF I feel he's worth I.

and I don't understand why you would when someone has been so insensitive and rude. I don't understand why anyone would give you a second chance if you were the ghoster either. People who do that aren't ready to be anyone's serious partner MOST of the time (there are exceptions to every rule) life is too short to waste it on the unsure (IMO)

 

It's rare when I do, but if I do, believe me, I am very cautious, aware, avoid getting pulled back in.

Why bother is all I'm saying.

 

There have been cases when after months of no contact, a man or woman has done enough introspection, and self-reflection to realize their issues and made changes.

Very seldom. But anyone who ghosted me would NEVER get that opportunity. Homey don't play that game. They don't deserve me if they'd do that to me.

 

Adding: To be clear... I don't consider going zero contact AFTER a break up to be 'ghosting' someone.

[mandeelove]

I didn't say you did. I was inferring that a guy coming back after ghosting is more times then not just wanting sex and will take it if you are silly enough to give it again without commitment. (again the general you)

 

I'm not so sure after what you've been saying about reaching out to ex's when you "miss" them but you know yourself more then I do, certainly.

 

and I don't understand why you would when someone has been so insensitive and rude. I don't understand why anyone would give you a second chance if you were the ghoster either. People who do that aren't ready to be anyone's serious partner MOST of the time (there are exceptions to every rule) life is too short to waste it on the unsure (IMO)

 

Why bother is all I'm saying.

 

Very seldom. But anyone who ghosted me would NEVER get that opportunity. Homey don't play that game. They don't deserve me if they'd do that to me.

I know and this is why Im posting on this site lol

 

I am trying to change to never settle for crumbs and be with anyone who cant give me a real commitment... Or one who once ghosted me etc. I also never want to answer any past guys Ive dated who have fit this description. Thanks for your help