HeartGoesOn Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 No offense, but rather than looking for an excuse to see him, mail the keys via certified mail. Not only will you maintain your self-respect, you'll be taking the high road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustlovedogs Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Ehh. Im anti mailing keys for security reasons. All of a sudden there's a key at an address, presumed for that address... would make it very easy to break in. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingFool Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Ehh. Im anti mailing keys for security reasons. All of a sudden there's a key at an address, presumed for that address... would make it very easy to break in. Just my two cents. Nobody knows what's in a padded envelope or box. Not like you are putting a label on it - "house key, use at will at recipient's address". OP I suggest you use a flat rate small box and cushion it in there, so it doesn't get ripped out by postal machines from the envelope. You get tracking for it and insurance automatically. Seriously no earthly reason to go anywhere near that guy. He is completely unhinged and you have absolutely no idea just how badly unhinged he is and how he may act out now that he feels rejected. As already suggested, send certified mail and be done. Whether he picks it up or not is his problem after that. If he doesn't and it comes back to you, you can toss the dang keys. He can change his locks for all you care. You tried, was his responsibility to get the mail. Stay far away from him and keep an eye out for trouble. In the future, listen to your gut faster and say no to things faster.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustlovedogs Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Nobody knows what's in a padded envelope or box. Not like you are putting a label on it - "house key, use at will at recipient's address". OP I suggest you use a flat rate small box and cushion it in there, so it doesn't get ripped out by postal machines from the envelope. You get tracking for it and insurance automatically. Seriously no earthly reason to go anywhere near that guy. He is completely unhinged and you have absolutely no idea just how badly unhinged he is and how he may act out now that he feels rejected. As already suggested, send certified mail and be done. Whether he picks it up or not is his problem after that. If he doesn't and it comes back to you, you can toss the dang keys. He can change his locks for all you care. You tried, was his responsibility to get the mail. Stay far away from him and keep an eye out for trouble. In the future, listen to your gut faster and say no to things faster.... I generally don't disagree but who knows. I've heard of crazier things happening in the mail. I personally wouldn't mail a house key - but do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky Vixen Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Thank you All. I will think of a way to return the key without meeting him. Maybe I will drop it at estate agency. I don't want to meet him. I feel anxious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DancingFool Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Thank you All. I will think of a way to return the key without meeting him. Maybe I will drop it at estate agency. I don't want to meet him. I feel anxious... That's actually a good idea. Just text him the address on where to pick up and be done. Then block block block. Let a neutral party deal with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahl Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I'm sorry that you're feeling anxious about interacting with him. I would, as well, if for no other reason than his unpredictably. I think your intuition is keen, here. What about dropping the keys off with local law enforcement? Do they have an 'ask the police' resource where you are? It's often a hot line / website for a district precinct you can use to determine what your options might be for utilizing them, in cases such as this, not to lodge any complaint at this point, but as the ultimate neutral third party. Sometimes they will not be able to assist simply because they are not able or interested in participating in any civil matter (not that they don't care, just that it's not feasible for their setup / resources to become involved at this stage). But regardless, they'll let you know and should not press you with questions either way, so I don't believe you'd need to worry about swearing out any report or anything similar. You'd just be able to inquire about their capacity to play responsible intermediary. You wouldn't be getting him in any sort of trouble, official or otherwise, with the initial query, and if they are set to assist, with his part in retrieving his keys. You needn't share anything that you're uncomfortable with or choose not to detail, either, in the asking or the exchange. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this but I absolutely think that you're doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I think you need to examine why you feel you had to make it work with someone who was sending out major red flags and making even you feel alarm bells. I mean, what's that all about? That's the big thing you have to take a look at here or you're going to end up back in the same place. For starters purchase the book "The Gift of Fear" read it cover to cover and apply it. You may not even need therapy, it may just be you need to be given the tools and knowledge to learn to follow your own instincts and when it's a real thing to worry about and when it's not. So that's my two cents on all of this. We don't exactly get taught lessons on how to spot people to avoid in school, so self-education is a good thing and that's a good start. It's an amazing book, one I think should be required reading in our schools BTW. We all encounter people like this, it's not that anyone has to do anything but breathe and be there and yes occasionally you will still bump into someone who has less than good intentions to you. But the difference between people who stay and find themselves trapped in an abusive or toxic situation and those who don't is in the attitude. Those who do hold on and insist on making something work that would never work to begin with, because you can't fix another person's issues and if you want or need a relationship that badly you're probably safer to just stay single in the first place and not paint a target on your back. The latter group simply, "Whoa, major red flags here, I'm gone," and they may feel sad or upset the person they thought they were dating turned out not to be who they were really dating, but their sense of self-preservation is greater than their perception that they have to make it work with someone who is clearly not dealing with a full deck in the first place. It's fine to want a relationship. But when you can see and feel they have red flags, the larger question becomes why did I ignore that? What's that about. And I'm not having a go at you here. I've done it myself and nearly paid for it with my life and sanity on a few occasions. Learn to listen to yourself above anyone else, learn not to let people who are manipulative guilt you into doing things and putting up with things you know are against your own best interests. You'll find that people like this just never get a toehold to begin with and you'll stay a whole lot more safe. P.S. I would contact his landlord if he's renting and return the key there and get a receipt from them that you did that. Then make sure you document it, in fact keep documentation of everything so he can't now come back at you with wild accusations. Or have a friend quietly film you giving him the key back or you leaving it under his door with a note, something. But keep documentation, so he can't later accuse you of not delivering the key or worse. Also if he's not picking up his mail that's a seriously alarming thing, no? What's he avoiding? A summons to court I'm betting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky Vixen Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 I will read the book. Probably the reason why I ignored red flags was the fact that I am an always single person. It is so difficult for me to meet someone to bring me out of my shell and care enough to actually go past my denials at the beginning. It was my first date in 3 years. Later I thought that maybe I am too old fashioned, people meet each other all the time, have sex on the first dates and not always but often live happily ever after. Maybe this is my problem that I am not flexible... Also before I didn't care much but because I got certain age I want to settle down as well. He seemed serious, responsible, consistent. I thought I should overlook some flaws because nobody is perfect. I am not as well. Also because he was never violent, he just talked about it very often to the point of annoyance. When I got all the replies here I just realised this can be serious. Before I thought that we just don't click, that me and him live differently, and because I am not experienced that much with relationships, and he had long term relationship before - he knows better. I really am open to work on being together, also I know sometimes I should get out of comfort zone or I will be single forever. But time he gave me for this is too short. Yesterday we broke up. He said he can step back on some of his expectations like me not wanting to drop the pill or getting married too soon. But he wants me to sleep over every time we meet which is almost every weekend, because this is what serious relationships do. I don't think I can do it this early on. I am really confused how can someone say he loves you and give you ultimatum at the same time... I will leave the key at the estate agency and get confirmation. This apartment is his and for rent, just not rented now. He said I can spend my time there if I want to since it is not used at the moment. The other apartment we were meeting at during weekends (he works in another city during week) I refused to take key as there was only one, so it would cause problem if he wanted to go there and I had no time or whatever other reason. He also said he is not checking his mail cause he is foreigner and don't understand most of it. And if it was something important someone would call him anyway. Sometimes I feel like maybe I should agree to his way of living, get used to it and not being alone again. I'm so sick of it. But I know it is stupid thinking. So I just rant here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Later I thought that maybe I am too old fashioned, people meet each other all the time, have sex on the first dates and not always but often live happily ever after. Where are those people? Because I never met one and I never had it happen that way, so I think you need to stop and reassess that idea. True, there will always be exceptions to the rule, but that's like people who win the lottery. Sure, it can happen, but spending all your money because that's how people get rich and you will too if you just keep buying lottery tickets is a really bad idea. Jumping into bed with someone you don't know makes you very vulnerable, its' a stranger for heavens sake. I don't care how charming they are. So I think you need to step back and stop letting your hunger to be with anyone stop clouding your judgement. Would you really rather be with an abuser, because I'm sorry this guy ticks off every single box there is so far, than alone? I counseled abused people, they will all pretty much tell you what I'm telling you, it's not a deal with the devil you want to sign up for. Ever. Work out how to meet people, go volunteer for some things, do meetups and stop believing the fantasy that our media sells about how true love comes out of first-time sex and under that bad boy a99hole exterior is a great guy ala Christian Grey. Who is frankly an abusive wanker who in real life would by this time be beating the crap out of Anastasia, not becoming all good. (Snorts loudly, rolls eyes) Yes, rant here. And I do know where you're coming from, I was you once upon a time. But time and life showed me that valuing myself first and establishing strong boundaries was a great way to weed out the bad ones while making room for the good ones. You can attract people, that's not the problem here. The problem is you let the bad ones stay, instead of saying "Nope, not him, let's keep looking." And yes most of us have made that mistake at one time or another or I don't think we'd be on this forum. So feel free to rant, ask questions, use this forum and its people as a sounding board. And read the book. I wish I had known about it or read it when I was younger. A friend gave it to me after he survived a carjacking that nearly left him for dead. He told me that night he knew something was wrong with the people who took his car and shot him, but he pushed forward and ignored that little voice instead. So he handed me the book after his therapist told him to read and said, "I'm giving this to you, because maybe something in there will help you one day." And yes, without going into specifics information from that book did help me. And now I'm forwarding that on to you, because I think you will get something out of it. And hopefully it can give you some answers. Your instincts are good, but like most of us you shouted them down. No, you do not want to be with a guy who controls you and is so eager to get you hooked in - you don't ever want to do that - trust me. Go read up also on abusive relationships and how they start and what the aftermath is. Or just read our section on abuse and violence. Arm yourself with information and understand it's in your power to make sure you only have good people in your life. And yes, feel free to come here as often as you like. We are here to listen and to help where we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiseman2 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Was he married? Please be more careful of red flags and deal breakers. Take your time to get to know people and if things sound crazy, usually they are. There is so much info on dating relationship red flags out there that the "haven't dated lately" and "nobody's perfect" excuses make no sense. Don't stick your head in the sand because you are lonely..He said I can spend my time there if I want to since it is not used at the moment. The other apartment we were meeting at during weekends (he works in another city during week) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky Vixen Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 I started reading the book. Also reading more on abusive early signs and see so much more of them. I had no idea to be honest... I thought it is all cultural difference. Getting angry when I didn't send message I got home, or when I didn't call back (I was home late and wanted to sleep since waking up early the next day). I thought it's all partly joke, now I think that maybe not...Also he asked a lot about my colleagues at work, if I was ever dating any of them - I took it as joke then again. He said I should open account together with him, cause we should start being together seriously. He would tell me I don't love him as strong as he loves me and that sometimes he doesn't feel I want him. Now I read all of those could be early signs I ignored and explained with "he is a bit crazy but positive" and that "I shouldn't be too picky cause I'm already in my 30s". I was really trying to see only positive sides, like he would always take me to my car ensuring I get home safely. Or introducing me to his culture which I really love. Bring me materials to learn language, explain language nuances, watching movies together, trying different oriental tastes and etc. I loved it. It was my dream relationship. We used to laugh a lot and I felt like I don't have to act or pretend - I can be just myself and I am accepted. To my early marriage concerns he would convince me he would never divorce me, and even if we had fights that this is normal and he is sure we would find a way to love each other again. Sounded quite reasonable... He was not married. He had 4-year relationship. He said she left cause she was couldn't accept he works too much (when they started dating he was a student and they spent a lot of time together). Also everything he told me about previous relationship appeared to be true. His parents seemed to be completely normal as well - I heard him talking to them on the phone. Also to his friends, I thought that many like him so he should be okay. There were things so normal and proper for the relationship I still feel sad and broken it is over. I should be happy but I can't even eat. Should be enjoying my first weekend for myself in 6 weeks but I barely go to kitchen for a glass of water. Am I going crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibralta Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I am really confused how can someone say he loves you and give you ultimatum at the same time... In this case, it wasn't love; it was an agenda! Glad you left. Wouldn't you rather be in a relationship with someone who loves you for being you, and not so that he could check a box off of his list of things to do? 32 is not old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Glad you decided to break up with this guy, he is manipulative and disrespecting your wishes, if he is ignoring your boundaries now, imagine what it will be like if you were actually married. And not to mention he's potentially abusive. 32 is definitely not too old. The "I shouldn't be picky cause I'm already in my 30s" view is what gets those people into unhappy marriages. When you're desperate, you'll likely make bad decisions. I suggest you get rid of that thought immediately and focus on, what's the right person for you. What qualities and characters and values are you looking for, they need to be aligned with yours, and what are the red flags and deal breakers for you, so you're not wasting time dating someone wrong for you. Being a bit older now, you should be even more discerning than before, because you can't afford to invest a couple of years in someone that's wrong for you, so detecting red flags and incompatibilities early is extremely important. I'm not sure what culture you are from (sounds like not western), but I know some cultures put a lot more pressure on people to get married by a certain age and encourage them to feel desperate to settle for anything and anyone if they're, say, in their mid to late 20s not to mention 30s. I'm of Chinese background and I know / hear about so many people get married after dating for 3-6 months, because "I'm too old and should be settling down and my parents and everyone else are pressuring me to do it, so I'm marrying this guy I've only known for 3 months because he seems nice and we get along OK". I mean, seriously, it is complete madness and unimaginable to me! Then of course, as predictable as anything can ever be, they find out things they can't stand about each other or some major glaring red flags, then either remain married unhappily or get divorced. One couple I know about, married after only 3 months of dating and got divorced 3 months later because he was constantly angry, had gotten physical with her and was sending flirty messages to one of her female (adult) students! What a treat that guy is right... he was rude to waiters on their very first date and he's always had a bit of a temper, so I really don't know why one would want to proceed to date the guy let alone marrying him, other than one word - "desperation". It's short-termism at its worst. Would you rather be 32 and unhappily married then maybe mid to late 30s, divorced and starting over again, and if you had children together, having to share custody with a man who makes life difficult for you and your child, OR would you rather take a bit more time to find the right person then be happily married for the rest of your life (50-60 years) even if that means not being married for a few more years right now. Don't be that desperate person, don't feel pressured and throw away your chance to be happy because society gave you some preconceived ideas about age and marriage and what one should do with their life and when. It's irrelevant. Do what's right for you. Trust your instincts, they are what's protecting you from harm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollyj Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Where are those people? Because I never met one and I never had it happen that way, so I think you need to stop and reassess that idea. True, there will always be exceptions to the rule, but that's like people who win the lottery. Sure, it can happen, but spending all your money because that's how people get rich and you will too if you just keep buying lottery tickets is a really bad idea. Jumping into bed with someone you don't know makes you very vulnerable, its' a stranger for heavens sake. I don't care how charming they are. So I think you need to step back and stop letting your hunger to be with anyone stop clouding your judgement. Would you really rather be with an abuser, because I'm sorry this guy ticks off every single box there is so far, than alone? I counseled abused people, they will all pretty much tell you what I'm telling you, it's not a deal with the devil you want to sign up for. Ever. Work out how to meet people, go volunteer for some things, do meetups and stop believing the fantasy that our media sells about how true love comes out of first-time sex and under that bad boy a99hole exterior is a great guy ala Christian Grey. Who is frankly an abusive wanker who in real life would by this time be beating the crap out of Anastasia, not becoming all good. (Snorts loudly, rolls eyes) Yes, rant here. And I do know where you're coming from, I was you once upon a time. But time and life showed me that valuing myself first and establishing strong boundaries was a great way to weed out the bad ones while making room for the good ones. You can attract people, that's not the problem here. The problem is you let the bad ones stay, instead of saying "Nope, not him, let's keep looking." And yes most of us have made that mistake at one time or another or I don't think we'd be on this forum. So feel free to rant, ask questions, use this forum and its people as a sounding board. And read the book. I wish I had known about it or read it when I was younger. A friend gave it to me after he survived a carjacking that nearly left him for dead. He told me that night he knew something was wrong with the people who took his car and shot him, but he pushed forward and ignored that little voice instead. So he handed me the book after his therapist told him to read and said, "I'm giving this to you, because maybe something in there will help you one day." And yes, without going into specifics information from that book did help me. And now I'm forwarding that on to you, because I think you will get something out of it. And hopefully it can give you some answers. Your instincts are good, but like most of us you shouted them down. No, you do not want to be with a guy who controls you and is so eager to get you hooked in - you don't ever want to do that - trust me. Go read up also on abusive relationships and how they start and what the aftermath is. Or just read our section on abuse and violence. Arm yourself with information and understand it's in your power to make sure you only have good people in your life. And yes, feel free to come here as often as you like. We are here to listen and to help where we can. OP, I too, know no one who has had sex on a first date , and lived happily ever after. You date, get to know the person and develop a friendship, then comes sex. I am wondering how full your life is with activities and friends? Are you getting out, or do you stay in most of the time? You will only find a good partner when you are happy with yourself, and not desperate to find someone to complete you. I guarantee when you get there, you will attract a better quality man. The type of guy you were with can spot desperation. Get yourself to a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Being sad and devastated from a breakup is completely normal. Open an account with you? Now I'm wondering if he didn't have a financial agenda, that's something con artists do. Try to rush someone off their feet and then high pressure them to give financial access and/or marriage to the person. The book is amazing. I wish I'd read it when I was younger. Keep reading it and yes you will see more and more red flags. And in time the fog will clear and it won't hurt so much. Plus 32 is not old. Not even. You have plenty of time. Treat this as a wake-up call that you need more contact with people, and to sharpen your instincts, but grieving the loss of something you hoped or thought might be great is totally normal. My first relationship was abusive, I missed him horribly when I left, because when he wasn't being a total jerk berating me with increasing put downs and controlling demands he could be a lot of fun and he taught me how to drive a car, get a job, be more independent. He had good traits too, but in time they just didn't outweigh his need to sucker punch me with verbal putdowns and then finally slapping me one night in a fight so hard the blood made a mark six feet up on the wall of our house. He had a lot of those same red flags, pushed me hard to immediately get into a relationship, got mad if I didn't drop everything to answer his calls, got mad easily at everything, would fill me with tales about how everyone but him was out to hurt me, was overly inquisitive of every single friend I had and got me to give up several close friendships and my martial arts. After he hit me and I had left he cornered me one day demanding I go down to the courthouse right then and get married. My family was there and chased him off, but yeah not good. But I still remember crying and wondering how I had missed all those signs and how he could be so good in some ways, but so rotten in others. And then I got over it and moved on and you will too. Just allow yourself to grieve, read the book, this is the time to lean on friends and/or treat yourself. You can recover from this and at the beginning so much easier than if you stay and then try to leave down the line. Because yeah, that's a lot harder to do, I know. I was there. Use this as a new beginning, one where you are stronger and more able to defend your personal boundaries. It will only help. Good luck, you will get through this all right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollyj Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Oh, 32 is very young!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 This youtube video with Gavin de Becker talking might be of interest and use to or to anyone on here as well. He sums things up quite nicely I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisPaulette Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Whoops, looks like I forgot to add the link: [video=youtube;zNtXjIiJ0PU] ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky Vixen Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 First of all I am really thankful for all responses here. I haven't expected so much support, especially from people with similar and even worse experiences. I actually posted my first question here with the thought people here will tell me to get some realistic expectations and learn to compromise. I would never guess he could turn into abuser one day, I was not afraid of him - just not comfortable with the pace. I live in Poland which is a country aspiring to western one but mentality is still very eastern.I get questions about not having a husband and children even going to the doctor, let alone friends and family wishing me boyfriend for my birthday. I don't even enjoy my birthday anymore. 32 in Poland is not single anymore - it is "something is wrong with her". I work in a corporate environment, go to the gym, learn language. I think I have quite a lot of activities. But most people my age are in relationships. My friends as well. My two single best friends are not living in my city anymore. Some of people I knew stopped inviting me, probably because I am the only single and it is not welcome. Actually even if I meet them I don't have much common topics since everybody around is buying apartments, getting pregnant, planning weddings. Don't get me wrong I like being single too, can organize my time perfectly well. Even being in the relationship I need the "me" time for myself and my hobbies. But that doesn't mean I don't miss having someone close to me. I don't feel happy sleeping alone, eating alone, going out alone, having nobody to share success or failure at work. Not to mention I sometimes just need a hug. Few months is okay, few years is too much. I'm tired of being the only one left out. Or maybe I just feel a bit down today. Thanks for the video. I'm going back to reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 It's totally fine to want a relationship and to actively look for one. But not ok to settle despite red flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky Vixen Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Sorry to come here again...He is trying to pull "I will change" act. Can I ask you to confirm this is all part of his strategy and I should just let it go? Why is doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanzi Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Sorry to come here again...He is trying to pull "I will change" act. Can I ask you to confirm this is all part of his strategy and I should just let it go? Why is doing this? Because, judging from what I've read about this guy on this thread, he is an emotional abuser who will use manipulation to get his own way. Of course he won't change. He will do/say anything to get you back under his wings. Once there he will start pushing/controlling you. You shouldn't need confirmation. It is glaringly obvious that this man is unstable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silky Vixen Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 I feel so awful. I hate it... I know what he is doing and I still have doubts. I really thought I am strong and fairly headed, how can one person turn you into an unstable. I feel Im going crazy... What should I say so he can leave me alone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notalady Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 What should I say so he can leave me alone.... I don't want to give it another chance, all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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