Boyfriend's enmeshed family?

[zeino]

Dear ENA,

 

My relationship is going super downhill and here I am asking for your advice. Not to save the relationship but to save me As for the relationship, I think it is good that I am discovering this early on, without much emotional investment and it can only be healthy if it is to end. In between, I need some reality check and opinions. (And I may post my vents in another thread).

 

Basically, my 40 year old boyfriend (whom I now believe to be enmeshed with both of his parents, father the controlling patriarch, mother the emotional controller) has put me in a rather nasty situation that I have never wanted for myself and still don't want. It's not his highly problematic parents, it's him. Our initial plan was to come together physically after a year of LDR if it's still working and if we have the desire to do so. We spoke about this quite early in the relationship to have a vision of where LDR may take us. This is now 1.5 years, which is fine by me. I have commitments until November anyway.

 

However, his mother has now made a super controlling entrance into our relationship - since she started staying physically with him iin his father's house (BF lives with his father). She has been attempting to stop or interrupt our Skype sessions and everything treating him exactly like a six year old and me also. I shared my concerns with BF but the mother's controlling goes beyond this - she decides what he will drink in social gatherings, speaks for him in employment situations, enters his room without permission all the time, goes to the gym with him for health reasons and doesn't let him have a word with trainers, instead speaking with them herself. BF thanks me for "opening his eyes to the situation." With all due respect, I don't like my position here - very dangerous and slippery. Plus I like men whose eyes are already open about these.

 

And now there is also the father that needs to be convinced. BF swears that his parents have no control on how he lives but he is approaching his father with small, soft steps.

 

I told him that the more he mentions this but says it's not important etc etc, the more he raises suspicions in my head. I also told him that I can wait for him for his personal goals but there is no way I am waiting for his father's approval at the age of 40 - I have personal reasons for this. BF also says that his father reacts whenever he gets a girlfriend because he loses control. They don't get on at all but they live together.

 

Both of these parents are physically able, don't need care as of now but make their life plans on their son looking after them although they live in different countries.

 

Boyfriend knows that the last thing I want to find myself in is a family dynamic where I am pulling him from one side and family from other sides. (His mother is in a crazy emotional competition with me. Even told me her son sleeps with her!!!)

 

In all this mess, in our last talk, he positioned himself in such a position that I am angry with him. So basically, he, apparently, is trying to balance everyone's needs (look at the objective diplomacy there). Surely, I am now in the mess as one of these people whose conflicting needs to be balanced. This I am not accepting. If he is seeing me like this, I'm gone. Seriously, I have seriously cooled off. (This isn't the only reason.)

 

I want to remain outside this because neither the boyfriend nor I know what kind of reactions these two people will give, he is afraid of his mother's strong emotional reactions etc etc. (But he lived with a woman they didn't like before).

 

I shared with him all my fears in this.

 

BUt the thing is I neither want to be in this needs balancing act nor do I want anything in this mess to be reflected on our already difficult relationship. I want to tell him that I will do my best to be there for him but I would like to suspend all relationship until these get solved and he can come to me or leave me or whatever independently as a person who has sorted out umbilical cord issues.

 

However, all my friends think I should be there to support him in this. That's what I wanted too, in the beginning. But it is adding pressure on me, my tolerance for individual frustrations has decreased seriously, libido on the floor because of constant interruption from the mother etc etc. I feel that this "support" will prepare our demise. I'm not opposed to talking to him if he wants to but don't want to call, initiate anything, ask anything if he is seeing me as one of the members of the group to be satisfied - appeased? Lip service?

 

I want to give him 100% freedom in his choices and if he wants to be with me (without parents as Demokles's sword hanging on top my head), I will be happy. If not, I will be happy again. This surely prevents his inclination to tell his father in the last minute and I'm sorry for ruining this strategy for him but I really don't want to put myself into anything without clarity in such an imbalanced family.

 

What do you think? Am I being too harsh? What would you do?

[Seraphim]

I feel sad for you. My husband had the same issues until we moved 3 hours away. I don't know how I made it with his parents that long.

[gebaird]

... our already difficult relationship ... libido on the floor ...

 

It sounds like these family dynamics are strike three for you -- the straw that broke the camel's back. Walking away is the best thing you can do for yourself, and for him. You've already lost respect for your boyfriend; end the relationship now while you still have some self-respect.

[zeino]

Victoria you are a Godsend.

 

I was reading your reply about being authentically true to ourselves and said to myself, "I wish Victoria read my post."

 

My BF and I are new so I'm not very invested and feel that I can't do this for long - my whole body is reacting with suffocation. I feel used. I feel used in the sense that they seem to "approve" our relationship for as long as it is not serious, yet the mother is both befriending me a lot and constantly giving unsolicited advice and kind of negative comments. I feel like the sexual extension in a pseudo-spouse relationship.

 

Do you think I should tell him that I will not attach or commit until this is cleared but we go on or do you think I should suspend everything. I don't want to commit to this before the situation gets discussed with the parents. I told this to him.

 

Another question: My BF is not a complete doormat to his mother, or was not. He is a kind guy who didn't make me feel secondary to his mother although we socialized a lot together. But I think he gets really strange in problem solving in this issue. What is your experience of resentment in this? Does that happen when BF has to take a stance? He was ready to but actually I asked him not to do it for now.

[Wiseman2]

Is the father-mother relationship so strained that she wants him to be company and depends on him like a pseudo-spouse? Have you met her? Is she domineering and/or neurotic?

[nutbrownhare]

What would I do? Run, run like the wind. This guy is not available for an adult relationship until he has left his parents; in a literal as well as an emotional sense.

 

Being "there for someone" can actually enable very unhealthy behaviour, and allow it to continue. This is very different to supporting someone as they make painful but necessary changes to an unhealthy lifestyle. If he had already seen the situation for what it is, made clear boundaries with his parents and was standing on his own two feet, that would also be different. By his age he has had plenty of time to do so, but has chosen not to.

 

If you continue this relationship, you will not only be with your boyfriend but taking on two highly dysfunctional adults as well. You won't be helping them or anyone else - just becoming another ingredient in this explosive cocktail. Don't do it. Walk away, now, before you make any decisions which will really impact on your own life and be difficult to undo. Having a LDR is very, very different to being with someone on the ground, where keeping your distance from the craziness would be virtually impossible.

 

I get what you say about wanting him to have 100% freedom in his choices - i.e. you don't want to put pressure on him - but he has had that all along, and look where he is. You really don't want his choices to become your choices, and your first responsibility is towards yourself and your own wellbeing; right now these are best served by walking away.

[HeartGoesOn]

I'm sorry you're in this situation, but this appears to be a case of it is what it is. I would look at is as a taste of what the future holds, and it's doubtful that anything will change, (imo).

 

At any rate, I would give this much more thought in a realistic light, so to speak.

[zeino]

Wiseman,

The father mother relationship is extrordinary. They divorced 28 years ago or something. Got remarried. Divorced from those spouses. The father wants to come together with the mother, and BF and I think she is stringing him along. She said yes to this but has a BF in my country, in the Hobbittown where we merrily live together. Me and my future MIL I meet her more than I meet the BF. Daily mode domineering. crisis mode that scares boyfriend neurotic and thus controlling. Mode with me super friendly (but insensitive about race, culture and everything perhaps unintentionally. But yeah, I regularly hear that my people are garlic eater stinking people to her people and also receive lots of feedback like this about my country's women. Maybe she thinks this is a topic of convo, I don't know.) I think the issue is to keep me on her side and earn her son's trust while eroding us at the same time whenever we get serious. basically she thinks I am the wonderful person her son cannot find again as long as he comes here for holidays and we hook up. Anything beyond this seems very difficult. She cannot even respect a skype convo where he says he doesn't want to be intterupted for an hour, clearly. Whatever small boundary needs to be busted. I have a feeling that she really cannot stop herself.

[Andrina]

The only type of future in-laws you should accept are the ones that welcome you into their home for pleasant visits. If prospective in-laws are intrusive in your lives, controlling, toxic, and this is the dynamic their grown child has let them continue with, then I'd run far and fast. He's forty years old. If he was 20, I'd give him time to see if he could get to a place of sticking with healthy boundaries. He's lived half his life most likely losing girlfriends because of his dysfunctional family. If this wasn't consequence enough for him to grow some, he probably never will.

 

I was intelligent enough even at aged 17 to dump a bf I'd dated for 2 years when I could see growing, inappropriate intrusion by his mother and I wasn't about to entertain a future marriage with him because of that (and other negative aspects). Be confident it's the right thing to end it.

[zeino]

What would I do? Run, run like the wind. This guy is not available for an adult relationship until he has left his parents; in a literal as well as an emotional sense.

 

Being "there for someone" can actually enable very unhealthy behaviour, and allow it to continue. This is very different to supporting someone as they make painful but necessary changes to an unhealthy lifestyle. If he had already seen the situation for what it is, made clear boundaries with his parents and was standing on his own two feet, that would also be different. By his age he has had plenty of time to do so, but has chosen not to.

 

If you continue this relationship, you will not only be with your boyfriend but taking on two highly dysfunctional adults as well. You won't be helping them or anyone else - just becoming another ingredient in this explosive cocktail. Don't do it. Walk away, now, before you make any decisions which will really impact on your own life and be difficult to undo. Having a LDR is very, very different to being with someone on the ground, where keeping your distance from the craziness would be virtually impossible.

 

I get what you say about wanting him to have 100% freedom in his choices - i.e. you don't want to put pressure on him - but he has had that all along, and look where he is. You really don't want his choices to become your choices, and your first responsibility is towards yourself and your own wellbeing; right now these are best served by walking away.

 

Nutbrownhare,

 

Thank you thank you thank you for this post. I agree with you so much and it feels helpful to hear these from someone else.

 

YOur perspective about the choice thing is so true. I have never thought about it this way, would you believe it Yes, he has always been 100% free. For me, removing myself from here is important because if a man thinks normal relationship balances - that he words so succintly himself- are like demands that he has to satisfy, if I am seen in this category, I really cannot bring myself to accept this - and don't wish to train anyone on the nuance here.

 

It's interesting. My BF never lived with his mother after the age of 14, 15. But she used to respect his boundaries better when he was younger. I am a relationship where he feels strongly after a long time and this triggered the mother I think - so something unsolved or reinvented comes back. Whatever this is from her side, I find more fault with the boyfriend who never had these boundaries established so far. I sometimes wonder if he is even triangulating us on purpose and this balancing things etc satisfies a codependent, narcissistic streak in him. All qualities of enmeshed men of course. And if someone is thinking about these already, it speaks for itself.

 

Thank you.

[rosephase]

Wow... this is a lot for you to take on for a new relationship.

 

I can understand why it's unappealing and frightening. Can he move out?

[zeino]

He can Rosephase. But his father doesn't disturb us like this at all. He is more of a silent controller that will react when things get serious. The mother is there for a stay. They don't live together. She lives where I live. She has little bits of these when he visits but I thought they were more or less normal and tolerable.

 

I even told BF to assure her of his love a bit, maybe invite her to nice places etc. He said he isn't responsible for her needs of emotional support. But the situation shows the reverse. That's why I'm uncomfortable. Saying the right words is not everything and I'm not someone to be appeased. I'm someone to be friended.

 

Lovely gentlemanly guy alright. Still, I don't want him to treat me the way he treats his mother. More confrontational but open people are more supportive in the end of the day.

[ParisPaulette]

nutbrownhare said it all. This is a 40-year-old man. He is part of the problem too, not just his parents. I personally have known 10-year-olds who didn't put up with a quarter of the control this man still puts up with as a grown adult from the parents.

 

I'm sorry, but this is who he is. It isn't up to you to teach any adult how to adult unless you're his therapist and he's come to you and paid you for that help.

 

I have grown sons, I take care of an elderly parent who lives with me, this is so far beyond the pale that I would actually tell you not to support the kind of insanity you describe. Walk away from it, because the whole situation is beyond toxic.

[nutbrownhare]

nutbrownhare said it all. This is a 40-year-old man. He is part of the problem too, not just his parents. I personally have known 10-year-olds who didn't put up with a quarter of the control this man still puts up with as a grown adult from the parents.

 

I'm sorry, but this is who he is. It isn't up to you to teach any adult how to adult unless you're his therapist and he's come to you and paid you for that help.

 

I have grown sons, I take care of an elderly parent who lives with me, this is so far beyond the pale that I would actually tell you not to support the kind of insanity you describe. Walk away from it, because the whole situation is beyond toxic.

 

Certainly is!

[rosephase]

Yeah... I would be out. I understand not everyone has a perfect family. And having good boundaries with your parents can be SUPER hard. But that is to much mess to invite into my life. Unless he is willing and ready to live on his own and take space from his parents. Father included. If he is this enmeshed with his parents, it is his choice. He wants it in some way. But I don't like enmeshment... I like people who are comfortable and confident being individuals.

[zeino]

I totally agree.

 

Actually, actually...

 

His mother has just written to me on SKYPE asking how I am!!!! Best wishes and everything

 

When BF and I decided not to speak for a couple of days except basic communication (he hasn't replied my text today as he hasn't seen it yet, we are both tired and down.)

 

Hell yeah, we can't even stop communicating without the mother interrupting. What next? Will she intterupt NO CONTACT

 

I will not get triggered and explode at BF to keep his mother away from me. We are beyond that I believe.

 

Ungrateful as I may sound at the face of this peacekeeping person, I think it's too early for parental interruption in a new LDR. If she wants to become a mother-in-law, she should first let us get married he he

 

I've made a lot of mistakes in my life but am not intending to get a MIL without a DH

 

Wow, you learn a new thing every day.

[nutbrownhare]

Nutbrownhare,

For me, removing myself from here is important because if a man thinks normal relationship balances - that he words so succintly himself- are like demands that he has to satisfy, if I am seen in this category, I really cannot bring myself to accept this - and don't wish to train anyone on the nuance here.

 

Yes, he's viewing you as another dysfunctional parental figure he needs to appease, isn't he? With relationships, unless you're happy with who the other person IS overall, without them needing to change, it's not going to work. Frankly, nobody could have a happy committed relationship with this man, appealing as he may be in other respects. I wouldn't expend too much energy wondering about their dynamics... just follow the example of the shrink in the cartoon below:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11258[/ATTACH]

[zeino]

Yes, exactly. His mother, like any mother, taught him how to treat women. There are many positive sides to this, being kind and gentlemanly, cooperative and many other things. However, if all these are at the cost of one's authentic self - repressed and repressed maybe- they don't hold much attraction for me. And being seen like that is the last thing I want for myself. It goes against my personal values, my relationship style, what I believe I can give to a friend, a lover and also what I believe I deserve. And I can't keep myself outside this no matter what I say, ho wmany times. That is objectifying someone for your own emotional scenario - even if unawarely. I don't want a relationship with such an unconscious level.

 

Basically, that position is everything I have avoided in all aspects of my life. Plus, to be honest, I don't even appreciate this kind of "altruism" so it shouldn't be wasted on me. I don't think it's altruism, goodness etc. It is more of a survival thing developed under unhealthy circumstances. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't take the risk to trust me enough to be himself.

 

I have analyzed it enough for 10 days I think. I have a basic understanding of it that still covers a lot of things for me. That's more than enough. Really.

[Hollyj]

Take this recent info as a blessing, and RUN! Good grief ! How ridiculous!

[zeino]

nutbrownhare said it all. This is a 40-year-old man. He is part of the problem too, not just his parents. I personally have known 10-year-olds who didn't put up with a quarter of the control this man still puts up with as a grown adult from the parents.

 

I'm sorry, but this is who he is. It isn't up to you to teach any adult how to adult unless you're his therapist and he's come to you and paid you for that help.

 

I have grown sons, I take care of an elderly parent who lives with me, this is so far beyond the pale that I would actually tell you not to support the kind of insanity you describe. Walk away from it, because the whole situation is beyond toxic.

 

ParisPaulette,

 

Thank you for sharing experience from your life. It is very helpful for a reality check. From a mother of sons, from someone who looks after an elderly parent.

 

I fully agree that this isn't just his parents, it's him.

 

And it is toxic. I think the mother still writing to me when his son and I are not is really toxic. I can't spend myself trying to find arguments that clarify the distinction between good intentions and meddling. She doesn't normally write to me. Her son is sad today and I know this. And he probably didn't give her information at a level she desires, so she is hovering around me. This is messy. At least she can be open you know. I responded her friendliness with a lot of friendliness and politeness. I don't think friendships/closeness should be manipulated this way.

 

I told my own mother that never in my life did I push away someone's "love" or "kindness" - I'm usually a sucker for these. But I felt like there was something not very genuine here, something different. These ten days clearly showed me what it is. One occasion especially.

 

I don't want ingenuine things in my life. I only accept genuinity beyond civility. She cannot make me cross this boundary. I cut contact with my own relatives because of this.

 

Wow. I'm so full

 

Thanks for letting me vent

[zeino]

Thank you for all your support ENAers. I have ended it. We have spoken very openly about enmeshment and how the boundariless relationship with his mother - entering his room without permission in general and everything- and how his compliance with this is a major sexual turn off for me with a very deep core. I have also said that the place that was allocated for me in the group of people to be satisfied actually belongs to him, so I'm going out he is going in. If he is a man who can put up his boundaries with his parents without much guilt - to a level that doesn't disable him, he can always come and find me. That's life, live and let live. I didn't come to this world to be the receiver of any family's personal dynamic's really - actually I did, but rejected it when I was 13-14. It took me a long time to heal from it. There is no going back. Never again. I just can't.

I hope he too finds a life that makes him happy.

 

It's a pity because we matched on so many levels, but that beautiful thing was being transformed into a completely different thing.

 

I can only be happy for knowing him and I'm sorry for the loss of beautiful things I experienced with him.

 

But I will not hide the fact that I also feel like I acted in a healthy, self-preserving manner, for which I will always congratulate myself. I feel good because of listening to my gut, not hushing things under the carpet this time and did something that I know is right. I feel relief. It's amazing how the body recognizes healthy action in a very natural way.

 

Thank you for all your opinions, advice, support.

 

ENA rocks really

[Seraphim]

Victoria you are a Godsend.

 

I was reading your reply about being authentically true to ourselves and said to myself, "I wish Victoria read my post."

 

My BF and I are new so I'm not very invested and feel that I can't do this for long - my whole body is reacting with suffocation. I feel used. I feel used in the sense that they seem to "approve" our relationship for as long as it is not serious, yet the mother is both befriending me a lot and constantly giving unsolicited advice and kind of negative comments. I feel like the sexual extension in a pseudo-spouse relationship.

 

Do you think I should tell him that I will not attach or commit until this is cleared but we go on or do you think I should suspend everything. I don't want to commit to this before the situation gets discussed with the parents. I told this to him.

 

Another question: My BF is not a complete doormat to his mother, or was not. He is a kind guy who didn't make me feel secondary to his mother although we socialized a lot together. But I think he gets really strange in problem solving in this issue. What is your experience of resentment in this? Does that happen when BF has to take a stance? He was ready to but actually I asked him not to do it for now.

 

I have always had HUGE resentment for my in-laws. It causes issues between my husband and I . His parents always treated us like we were 12 especially him. As this is a new relationship I would not carry it on unless he's willing to take a stand .

[Seraphim]

Damn , I am late to the party. I got to my mom's for Christmas and was socializing.

[zeino]

Happy holidays with your family!

[ParisPaulette]

But I will not hide the fact that I also feel like I acted in a healthy, self-preserving manner, for which I will always congratulate myself. I feel good because of listening to my gut, not hushing things under the carpet this time and did something that I know is right. I feel relief. It's amazing how the body recognizes healthy action in a very natural way.

 

This is something I wish everyone in a toxic situation would realize and feel and do. Good for you and happy holidays and a better New Year. I know it hurts, but when someone shows you clear red flags there is only so much one can do before it's time to say, "Thanks, but no thanks," and walk knowing you showed yourself some serious respect and self-love.

 

You're an inspiration. Have a wonderful holiday season and a great New Year too.