Being able to be yourself in dating? Paying during dates?

[Brokenheart99]

So how far into dating/talking/getting to know someone can you start being able to be yourself and showing interest? Let me clarify some, usually early on when dating, even if I really like a guy, I feel like I always have to hold back some from talking too much/showing too much interest/responding too quickly. It's always a bit of a game to keep the mystery and challenge alive. And if I find myself showing too much interest or responding too quickly(even after a few good dates), I find them backing off etc. At what point can you just feel safe being able to be yourself and talk how you want to without losing the interest of whoever you're seeing? Or do you have to keep that up kind of through the course of a relationship?

 

Also, on a first meetup, who pays? Like I met up with a guy through a dating site and we agreed on just coffee. So we got coffee and he paid for coffee(though I'm not sure if he wanted to, I just didn't really insist much because it's pretty cheap as is). So after coffee, he wants to continue the night and asks and we agree on dinner at some nice restaurant next door. And the bill comes(I always offer to pay sincerely even though I kind of prefer if a guy pays, but usually almost all guys never let me pay). And I offer to split it and he says "you sure?" And let's me split the bill. It wasn't terribly pricey either, it was like 50 bucks, and he's a professional. I mean I know it's not technically a real date but it's kind of annoying. Who is supposed to pay? Thoughts?

[Wiseman2]

It would be best to just be yourself from the very beginning. Playing hard to get games is not going to keep anyone's interest. Either they are interested...or they're not.

 

Also mean what you say, say what you mean. Don't get in a tug-of war about the check if he offers to pay, and then annoyed that he took you up on the offer to split the bill. Dating will be a lot less of a headache/ guessing game if you are yourself and communicate clearly.

And the bill comes.And I offer to split it and he says "you sure?" And let's me split the bill. It wasn't terribly pricey either, it was like 50 bucks, and he's a professional. I mean I know it's not technically a real date but it's kind of annoying. Who is supposed to pay? Thoughts?

[j.man]

You consume it, expect to pay for it. It's the adult thing to do.

 

Historically, I've almost always paid for the first date. I've never liked the standard, though. If my current relationship were to end up not working out and I entered the dating scene again, I'd most likely suggest up-front that the bill be separated, even on the first date. I wouldn't combine the bill and pay expect her to pay half as I eat and drink like a pig.

 

I want a girlfriend whom I'll be building with rather than for. I'd like to see her pulling her own weight from day one.

[gebaird]

If you don't want to pay, don't offer.

 

As far as being yourself, it's just a matter of building trust and reading cues. If you open up a little and the guy opens up too, it's safe to keep going in that direction. If you open up and the guy doesn't, pull back and wait for him to open up. It's kind of a dance at first, but as a relationship progresses you'll hopefully both get to the point where you feel comfortable being yourselves. No one can fake it 100% of the time, especially as you start spending more time together. It just takes too much energy.

[Brokenheart99]

Well I am myself, but I'm kinda silly at times and I get excited about things. So after the date, he was interested, messaging me etc, saying he wants to meet up again etc. and so I was being my playful self back but a little more interested than I had been showing up until the date and I find that he just started backing off etc. it's happened on other occasions as well. It just seems like sometimes you have to keep a bit of a challenge always. I was feeling really good after the date and had he struck while he iron is hot I woulda gone along with it. But now I'm not as excited anymore. Maybe he's not the right one for me.

 

Well he never offered to pay. The waitress just handed him the bill, so I offered to split it as politeness/courtesy. I mean it's no super big deal, i would still date him without resent but I'm just wondering what other people's (girls especially) thoughts on guys who let you pay. It's a silly standard and I think it sucks for guys that they have to pay, but most of my girlfriends still expect a guy to pay on a first date within reason.

[j.man]

I'm just wondering what other people's (girls especially) thoughts on guys who let you pay.

Complete ***holes for treating women as equals.

[itsallgrand]

Being able to let your full self hang out comes with time and getting to know and trust someone. First meets and early dating is no different as far as getting to know someone - it starts off more superficial and over time, grows deeper if all goes well. That doesn't mean acting false or going against your feelings- you just have to use your judgement and keep in mind the context ( first meet is pretty much a stranger).

 

I think paying shouldn't be determined by gender, but I know some people don't agree with that. I just lead with what that person could expect going forward with me - I like treating as much as being treated, and have no problem paying my share or more.

 

I don't think you should fake offer to pay if your expectation is different than that, as that's playing needless games.

[mfan]

It would be best to just be yourself from the very beginning.

Can't make a blanket statement like this. Some people have naturally poor judgment and if they were to "be themselves" then they would be showing way too much interest, and would drive away the other person. Such people need to consciously hold back even if it feels unnatural at first. People who are completely well adjusted can "be themselves" with no ill effects.

[DancingFool]

The whole point of dating is not about getting to the next date with the person but about weeding out all those who are not a match. So be your best version of genuine self from the get go.

 

Regarding your offer to pay, the dance steps you are using are he plans and invites, he picks up the check, you offer to pay to demonstrate good manners, he reads it for what it's worth and insists on paying. This guy failed and danced to a different set of steps, namely if she offers to pay he will accept at face value and let her pay her share. Was that a big enough of a difference that he is out? Only you know the answer to that along with the overall vibe of the date.

 

As for who pays and when, I tend to go with he/she who invites pays. Early on though, usually the guy will organize and pay for the first couple of dates and then I'll reciprocate and organize and pay for the next date. I've never had a guy think that's too forward or back off because of that. Instead, they were all rather pleased. If you continue on dating past those few initial dates, it also sets up a more even give and take tone very early on, which is what I prefer. Now if the idea that I will plan things upsets him, then he is not for me anyway and best we know now and part ways. I'm not a wallflower in my own life and I like a confident man but not a domineering one, so this does tend to weed out domineering guys as well as those who are only in it for the thrill of the chase.

[Tinydance]

OK, so far as showing interest goes, I agree, I don't think playing games is good. I do see where you may have got this idea from because as a woman I also actually had been told since I was only a teenager (funnily mostly by other women) that a woman should play hard to get and let the guy do the chasing. I've been told that girls that are too keen or "easy" will either scare guys away or will only get them interested in sex. And let's not forget the "gospel" of dating for women - the book and movie "He's Just Not That Into You"

 

To be honest, I personally don't believe in that. I think it's fine to seem interested, but just a normal amount. Like if you've only had one or two dates, obviously you don't want to bombard the guy with calls or messages or say something like "Oh my God, I'm totally falling for you". Just normal texting here and there and asking questions and showing interest is fine though. I think there is also such a thing as appearing too passive and disintetested and the guy may then just move on to another woman.

 

In so far as the paying goes, well it's a difficult question which I think many people may disagree on. I think in the "olden days" it was traditional for guys to pay for a woman at least on the first one or two dates. Actually when I was dating like ten years ago I remember a lot of guys paying for me on dates. Now I still keep going on a lot of dates but not many guys pay for me. I think our society is really changing and the gender roles and dynamics in dating are becoming more equal. So as you see guys on this thread and as many guys probably think these days, that males don't think they should pay for a woman just because they're a male. I actually always take out my wallet to pay on a date and I suppose deep down I do think it'd be gentlemanly if the guy paid, but I don't mind if they don't. I think it's rude not to even offer to pay because it's a bit presumptuous and already expecting the guy to pay.

 

I was actually dating an extremely stingy guy on and off for a year and a half and he never paid for me for anything not even once but I paid for him for coffee and some little stuff because I'm a generous person. What bothered me about him was not that he wasn't paying for me but that he was completely obsessed with money and talking about it non-stop and acting like he couldn't even spend two dollars. But yet he bought himself an overseas holiday and then also a $2000 cruise around the Pacific. I don't think money was actually an issue but he's just super stingy, which he actually admitted. For me it's more about overall attitudes about dating and money rather than who pays for whom.

[j.man]

As for who pays and when, I tend to go with he/she who invites pays.

This might be OK if not for this:

 

Early on though, usually the guy will organize

Putting aside I consider it kinda abstract in reasoning to expect not to pay simply for the fact someone else took the time and effort to plan an organize for you (especially considering you're free to decline if you don't think their idea is worth your time and money), it is still most often the man who's socially expected to put his ego on the line and do the approaching to make the plans an option.

 

Additionally, while on paper it may seem like a wash if a guy organizes and pays for the first couple dates and the woman does the same for, say, the third and fourth, you're still looking at a very lopsided risk ratio. It's like if a car dealership told guys they couldn't test drive a vehicle before they bought it but told women to go ahead and take the car home for a week and decide if they want to buy it. Even if they're paying the same price, the guy definitely gets the rawer end. To me, this concept puts a bit too much of a presumption on there ever being a third or fourth date for the woman to then make things equitable.

 

Not saying you can't have this standard or that it's wrong or even that there aren't plenty of men out there who would be 100% fine with it, but it is kinda "the guy should pay" lite.

[Tinydance]

This might be OK if not for this:

 

Putting aside I consider it kinda abstract in reasoning to expect not to pay simply for the fact someone else took the time and effort to plan an organize for you (especially considering you're free to decline if you don't think their idea is worth your time and money), it is still most often the man who's socially expected to put his ego on the line and do the approaching to make the plans an option.

 

Additionally, while on paper it may seem like a wash if a guy organizes and pays for the first couple dates and the woman does the same for, say, the third and fourth, you're still looking at a very lopsided risk ratio. It's like if a car dealership told guys they couldn't test drive a vehicle before they bought it but told women to go ahead and take the car home for a week and decide if they want to buy it. Even if they're paying the same price, the guy definitely gets the rawer end. To me, this concept puts a bit too much of a presumption on there ever being a third or fourth date for the woman to then make things equitable.

 

Not saying you can't have this standard or that it's wrong or even that there aren't plenty of men out there who would be 100% fine with it, but it is kinda "the guy should pay" lite.

 

Well I get the sense that guys USED to pay in the past, but I've only been dating the last 15 years or so, so I don't know what it was like 20+ years ago. I do think our society is changing in so many ways and as I mentioned in my comment, now not many guys pay for me on dates and I don't mind. Like I would still keep dating a guy even if they never paid for me. My love language is buying people I care about gifts (it's not about money but I like picking out things they'd like) so I do love it when a guy I'm dating gets me little things here and there and I like getting him things here and there. I'm a generous person so I'm happy to buy my guy lunch or coffee or little presents and I would love the same from him. I do think it's lovely if a guy shouts me but that's just because I love generosity. I used to be in a relationship with a woman and she would get me flowers or shout me lunch or theatre tickets and I'd do similar stuff for her. I don't care about gender roles (probably prefer there weren't any) but I like give and take.

[Brokenheart99]

As far as being yourself - I don't know, I'm going to have to agree on keeping up with the dance for a bit and feel it out. If they open up or show more interest, you do too, etc. it just feels frustrating at times but I guess that's just how dating goes. The magic is made in your head anyway.

 

Paying on dates- I don't know, call me old fashioned or stuck up, but I kinda expect the guy to organize and pay for the first few dates. That's why I suggest something cheap for a first date or meet up, so it's not too much of a burden for a guy to pay. But if you are going to ask me out after that and suggest a place, then I don't know, I would prefer they pay. It makes a girl feel special I guess. Just gentlemanly. I hear from a lot of guys that they won't let a girl pay but that they prefer her to offer to pay. I know it's silly game playing but that's kind of the point I'm trying to make, some of dating seems like game playing. From holding back a little and not showing too much interest to offering to pay but really wanting the guy to pay. Who knows, I'm probably doing this all wrong haha.

[j.man]

Well I get the sense that guys USED to pay in the past, but I've only been dating the last 15 years or so, so I don't know what it was like 20+ years ago. I do think our society is changing in so many ways and as I mentioned in my comment, now not many guys pay for me on dates and I don't mind. Like I would still keep dating a guy even if they never paid for me. My love language is buying people I care about gifts (it's not about money but I like picking out things they'd like) so I do love it when a guy I'm dating gets me little things here and there and I like getting him things here and there. I'm a generous person so I'm happy to buy my guy lunch or coffee or little presents and I would love the same from him. I do think it's lovely if a guy shouts me but that's just because I love generosity. I used to be in a relationship with a woman and she would get me flowers or shout me lunch or theatre tickets and I'd do similar stuff for her. I don't care about gender roles (probably prefer there weren't any) but I like give and take.

Oh, I'm all about little gifts here and there. My girlfriend and I both frequently buy each other little things just because we thought of each other when we saw it. Though I'm much more practical with what I give. I'll buy her snacks like White Cheddar Popcorn (which she loves), or like a travel-size coffee mug if I see her trying to lug a big mug around on her way to work. The other day, I went ahead and stocked her little mini-fridge she has in her study as she's got boards coming up. Nothing big, just $15 - $20 worth of beverages and snacks. I'm definitely not a flowers/jewelry/purse provider.

 

I enjoy a "give and take" dynamic, but I also don't give to a woman solely because she's got a pair of boobs and has decided to gift me with her presence on a first date. It's something you "earn" once we've gotten to know each other and I know you're someone who's worth putting myself out for. If I want to give to strangers, there are billions of others out there who are more in need.

[Tinydance]

As far as being yourself - I don't know, I'm going to have to agree on keeping up with the dance for a bit and feel it out. If they open up or show more interest, you do too, etc. it just feels frustrating at times but I guess that's just how dating goes. The magic is made in your head anyway.

 

Paying on dates- I don't know, call me old fashioned or stuck up, but I kinda expect the guy to organize and pay for the first few dates. That's why I suggest something cheap for a first date or meet up, so it's not too much of a burden for a guy to pay. But if you are going to ask me out after that and suggest a place, then I don't know, I would prefer they pay. It makes a girl feel special I guess. Just gentlemanly. I hear from a lot of guys that they won't let a girl pay but that they prefer her to offer to pay. I know it's silly game playing but that's kind of the point in trying to make, some of dating seems like game playing. From holding back a little and not showing too much interest to offering to pay but really wanting the guy to pay. Who knows, I'm probably doing this all wrong haha.

 

Well I think there is definitely game playing in dating but I guess as to whether you WANT to play the game then that is up to you. I personally don't want to. I actually asked out my first boyfriend; another boyfriend was smiling at me a lot at an exhibition, so I went up to him and invited him for dinner; another boyfriend I told his Mum that I liked his photo (long story lol) and she gave my number, another guy I dated I asked him out; and my ex-girlfriend I asked out. I know that was a woman but the point is there is nothing wrong with taking a bit of initiative I think, as long as you don't do it in a full on and creepy way. Like yeah you can match the pace they're going at with texting, calling, etc. but you don't have to hold back too much. Plus some guys actually can be shy and some of my really shy male friends actually said that they wish the woman would give a bit more signs or take more initiative because they're nervous. I terms of paying yeah some guys didn't let me pay when I took out my wallet but some guys did. I guess we also have to remember that if a guy went on a date with ten women and paid, he would have spent A LOT of money. Whereas we as women could go out with ten guys and get either all or at least many free dinners (let's just pretend they paid) and had spent nothing.

[Wiseman2]

Agree that TMI and clinginess are universal turn-offs and some natural unfolding of things is better. However games of any sort are usually an inauspicious beginning.

Some people have naturally poor judgment and if they were to "be themselves" then they would be showing way too much interest, and would drive away the other person. Such people need to consciously hold back even if it feels unnatural at first. People who are completely well adjusted can "be themselves" with no ill effects.

[Gary Snyder]

You can ease up on the playing hard to get after 7 weeks....... if the guy you are dating is not into you by then, he probably never will be.

 

I usually suggest the guy offer to pay for the first few dates. But don't worry about it too much....... everyone is confused on the "who pays?" issue, so don't sweat it.

[j.man]

That's why I suggest something cheap for a first date or meet up, so it's not too much of a burden for a guy to pay.

What tickles me as I think you actually consider this a generous act on your end. Not meant as a dig-- it's just a funny thought.

 

But if you are going to ask me out after that and suggest a place, then I don't know, I would prefer they pay. It makes a girl feel special I guess. Just gentlemanly. I hear from a lot of guys that they won't let a girl pay but that they prefer her to offer to pay. I know it's silly game playing but that's kind of the point I'm trying to make, some of dating seems like game playing. From holding back a little and not showing too much interest to offering to pay but really wanting the guy to pay. Who knows, I'm probably doing this all wrong haha.

Who the hell doesn't like feeling special or receiving a free meal or drink? Sign me up to be a member of that club.

 

But when you expect a man to spend money on you for no other reason than you having provided him your time (which, given that this man doesn't know you, is in fact the primary reason, if not the only), you inherently commodify yourself, which is understandably a big gripe many women have with regard to many men who date them. Remove the whole transaction element from the date and you'll have nixed both the games and the expectations.

[SoulTaker]

So how far into dating/talking/getting to know someone can you start being able to be yourself and showing interest? Let me clarify some, usually early on when dating, even if I really like a guy, I feel like I always have to hold back some from talking too much/showing too much interest/responding too quickly.

 

You can be yourself, without revealing too much about yourself. You have to remember that the person sitting across from you on a first date is a complete stranger. So, you're not going to present much in personal details at the beginning, but that doesn't mean that you can't be your true self.

 

I think that you're on track in how you're handling it. For me, the women who were measured in their "interest level" (building it up as the dates went on), turned out to be the best ones in being in a relationship. I liked, and respected their intelligence, and how they kept up the intrigue (in learning more about them as the dates went on).

[Sportster2005]

So how far into dating/talking/getting to know someone can you start being able to be yourself and showing interest? Let me clarify some, usually early on when dating, even if I really like a guy, I feel like I always have to hold back some from talking too much/showing too much interest/responding too quickly. It's always a bit of a game to keep the mystery and challenge alive. And if I find myself showing too much interest or responding too quickly(even after a few good dates), I find them backing off etc. At what point can you just feel safe being able to be yourself and talk how you want to without losing the interest of whoever you're seeing? Or do you have to keep that up kind of through the course of a relationship?

 

Also, on a first meetup, who pays? Like I met up with a guy through a dating site and we agreed on just coffee. So we got coffee and he paid for coffee(though I'm not sure if he wanted to, I just didn't really insist much because it's pretty cheap as is). So after coffee, he wants to continue the night and asks and we agree on dinner at some nice restaurant next door. And the bill comes(I always offer to pay sincerely even though I kind of prefer if a guy pays, but usually almost all guys never let me pay). And I offer to split it and he says "you sure?" And let's me split the bill. It wasn't terribly pricey either, it was like 50 bucks, and he's a professional. I mean I know it's not technically a real date but it's kind of annoying. Who is supposed to pay? Thoughts?

 

If you don't want to pay, don't offer. Your offer isn't sincere, if you don't want to pay. I let women pay because I assume they mean what they say and say what they mean.

 

To me paying when a woman wants to pay is rude. You've stated a desire and as an adult I have to respect your decision. I don't second guess. Often women want to pay because if a man pays it can set up a sense of obligation to the man. And men do this. I paid for diner, I expect something in return. Women also pay because it's 2016. They can afford to.

 

I offer. I believe chivalry and equality are not mutually exclusive. I also expect women to be straightforward.

[Sportster2005]

 

Paying on dates- I don't know, call me old fashioned

 

It's OK to play the old fashioned card as long as your willing to stay home and do housework all day.

[Batya33]

On a first meet if it was just coffee and I felt like he would be offended if I offered him $2 I would not offer and thank him graciously. Otherwise I always offered to split it (and one guy thought I wanted to treat him too for a $20 bill lol). I did insist on treating for lunch on a first meet because he traveled by train for an hour to meet me. On a first date the guy usually insisted on paying. I offered to chip in/split if it was unusually expensive but not if he insisted on choosing an expensive restaurant. On a second date I always offered to pay my way unless it was clear he did not want me to offer.

 

As far as acting myself I tried not to be too chatty and let him have space to get to know me.

[Enn]

I hate this - I always offer to pay, and nine times out of ten they bloody let me, telling themselves they're feminists rather than tight arses. I've even paid for food when I didn't eat at all and they let me! Money isn't an issue, but I find lack of basic generosity deeply unattractive. (In fact I didn't find him attractive - I just felt I needed to be polite. He probably thought I thought he was amazing, seeing as paying for food was such a big deal to him).

 

My ideal is that we both INSIST on offering to pay and there's an awkward stalemate ended by 'I'll get the next one'. But all the books like The Rules will tell you that if a man is interested in you he WANTS to pay for you...that you'll kill his interest and seem too keen if you offer to pay.

[Tinydance]

Also I think it's fair if you're not interested in a guy on the first date that you don't actually let him pay for you if you don't want to see him again. One guy invited me to a wine and cheese bar for a first date from a dating web site. I agreed but I didn't realise how expensive the place was. I found the guy very arrogant and felt no connection but he said he was going to the bathroom and when he returned it turned out he paid the whole bill, which was $80! I felt really guilty because I didn't want to see him again, so I gave him $40. It was very awkward but at least I left there with a clear conscience lol

[Almira23]

Typically, on the first date, I like for the check to be separated and that we are each responsible for our own portion of the bill. I don't like for the guy to pay for the 1st date because if we don't get along or if there is no desire for us to continue dating then I wouldn't feel comfortable if he pays for the bill.

When it comes to who pays for dates, I don't really focus on it that much. Typically, in my relationships, my boyfriends and I kind of split how we paid for things. If I invited him to a date, then I would pay. If he invited me to a date, then he would pay. Sometimes, we would split the bill. Sometimes, one of us would pay the entire bill regardless who initiated.

People put too much focus on trivial things like who pays for the date. I would really only be concerned about it if I am paying for all the bills, all the dates, and all the expenses in the relationship.