JJ's Diary of Dating

[IAmFCA]

Seerms the more I listen to people and read about people talk about online dating, the more I realise it just doesn't work, for the vast majority. Aside from a few extremely isolated examples. And that comes as no surprise really, considering the nature of it. Personally, this is why I refuse to do it, just seems like a waste of time to me.

 

 

 

This demonstrates my point perfectly.

 

I reckon you're much better off forming new social scenes somehow in real life.

 

You said the coffee shop girl "seemed" to have a bf - maybe get some more coffee from there and find out?

 

Disagree with your conclusion.

 

It does work, it also requires more up front effort.

 

When we meet people IRL a number of little things happen organically that help us screen people. Friends - a big one. Common connections, shared neighborhoods, shared interests or choices of music/food/playgrounds/etc, a physical review of looks, style of dress, sound of voice, pose of shoulders and head, eye contact... all of that before even speaking. On the internet, we get almost none of that. We meet people to fill in those gaps as best we can, and we meet tons of them, creating over and over again the experience of meeting the woman in the coffee shop.

 

It's effort, meeting people. The posters who can count them - I've never counted and have no idea. But the number sound more alarming than they are. A few years, 52 weekends in a year. An average of 1 man a week is completely believable, on average. In nearly two years, I've met two men who have stuck. Neither man I would have met any other way, both meet my qualifications. I have more about myself along the way than I could have without OLD. As a consequence of dating such a broad spectrum of men i have had to become better at many many things, and more self aware, and both of those gifts allow me to attract and choose a higher quality man.

 

If I had stayed within my reach, my dating would have been limited to what I could reach. OLD is a powerful feedback system that allows us to grow in order to meet relationship goals.

 

For easy sex, it is easy. For an LTR, it is hard work but fruitful.

[IAmFCA]

Faraday, I feel like you and I said the same thing. Ha.

 

JJ, it isn't you. It just IS. Churn through your meets like appointments on your calendar. You're a rock star. EXPECT to require more knowledge before thinking they are worthy of your excitement.

[LightWave93]

Sorry it didn't work out for you man, but I do agree that managing expectations for a first date (heck, even the first few) is a good way to go about doing things. I've met many people through the internet and very rarely do our expectations (however small) match the reality.

 

Is this not a girl you could continue seeing? From reading your post it doesn't sound as if there was too much a-miss; in what way was her personality "not quite" how she portrayed online. In what way was she "not quite" resembling her pics? I only ask because it may shed some light as to how you're entering these dates, and we may perhaps be able to help.

[John John]

Thank you all very much for the support. Really appreciate it!

 

ITIC, I am doing much better with not getting too exited too soon. This time was a bit different because her communication was spot on (and she seemed very similar to me), and when I asked if her pictures were real (and explained that I'd been catfishes a few times recently, which is the truth), she said they were and that they were all recent. And yet, in real life, I'll be honest - she just wasn't as attractive. I've asked some close friends (including female friends) if my pictures are accurate (my profile photo on here is one of the ones in the mix, it was taken just a few weeks ago), and everyone says I look exactly the same in real life, except a tad younger. So I know I'm not leading anyone on with my profile, how I present myself, etc.

 

ITIC and faraday - love both of your attitudes and what you said. I guess I really do have to reserve any kind of excitement for at least until after the first date. And this is why I'm starting to think I may just stop online dating and just hope that I meet someone in real life, because then, you don't have to wonder "are their pictures accurate" as you wait to meet them. My thing too is, faraday, I can't just meet tons of guys during the week the way you used to. I think your method is better in that you have maximum exposure, but I just don't have the time or energy anymore (not to mention that we as men are expected to pay the first date). Between work, the gym, seeing my friends and family, and just me being generally tired of dating, I can only do one new girl a week, max. This was my first new meet up in about three weeks.

 

Last night, when the bill came ($55), I held out and waited for her to offer to pay half. After all, she decided she wanted to eat (I didn't, I already ate). So when she offered to pay half, I gladly accepted. I'm getting better at that at least lol

[Seraphim]

Some people look better in pictures and some people look better in person. It doesn't have to be a lie that she didn't look exactly like her picture.

[faraday]

Thank you all very much for the support. Really appreciate it!

 

ITIC, I am doing much better with not getting too exited too soon. This time was a bit different because her communication was spot on (and she seemed very similar to me), and when I asked if her pictures were real (and explained that I'd been catfishes a few times recently, which is the truth), she said they were and that they were all recent. And yet, in real life, I'll be honest - she just wasn't as attractive. I've asked some close friends (including female friends) if my pictures are accurate (my profile photo on here is one of the ones in the mix, it was taken just a few weeks ago), and everyone says I look exactly the same in real life, except a tad younger. So I know I'm not leading anyone on with my profile, how I present myself, etc.

 

ITIC and faraday - love both of your attitudes and what you said. I guess I really do have to reserve any kind of excitement for at least until after the first date. And this is why I'm starting to think I may just stop online dating and just hope that I meet someone in real life, because then, you don't have to wonder "are their pictures accurate" as you wait to meet them. My thing too is, faraday, I can't just meet tons of guys during the week the way you used to. I think your method is better in that you have maximum exposure, but I just don't have the time or energy anymore (not to mention that we as men are expected to pay the first date). Between work, the gym, seeing my friends and family, and just me being generally tired of dating, I can only do one new girl a week, max. This was my first new meet up in about three weeks.

 

Last night, when the bill came ($55), I held out and waited for her to offer to pay half. After all, she decided she wanted to eat (I didn't, I already ate). So when she offered to pay half, I gladly accepted. I'm getting better at that at least lol

 

I would seriously consider meeting in the mornings. Most of my meets were a 9 or 10 am Saturday morning coffee and walk. At most $10. And I would do one at 9 am and one at 10:30 am...in the same complex! Just get them done. Just make sure there isn't much else to do around the place so you don't bump into them leaving grocery shopping or something at the end of your second (with another person) date.

 

Just keep it cheap. If a meet inquires to the odd time, say "this weekend is packed, but I couldn't wait to meet you! So I squeezed you in, I hope you don't mind." If they're offended that you're not taking them out for an expensive meet...are they really the kind of woman you want to be with? Because from what I know about those kinds of women (in our age demographic anyway) they tend to be looking more for someone to finance their lifestyle more than they're looking for true love.

 

Eta: morning meets also have the advantage of being done so you can do out and have the rest of the day to do things. If you have a meet at 8pm on a Saturday, that's it, the evening is done! And you won't want to pack your day with too much because you won't want to be fried by 8...so it kind of puts the whole day on hold...do you know what I mean?

[IAmFCA]

I would seriously consider meeting in the mornings. Most of my meets were a 9 or 10 am Saturday morning coffee and walk. At most $10. And I would do one at 9 am and one at 10:30 am...in the same complex! Just get them done. Just make sure there isn't much else to do around the place so you don't bump into them leaving grocery shopping or something at the end of your second (with another person) date.

 

Just keep it cheap. If a meet inquires to the odd time, say "this weekend is packed, but I couldn't wait to meet you! So I squeezed you in, I hope you don't mind." If they're offended that you're not taking them out for an expensive meet...are they really the kind of woman you want to be with? Because from what I know about those kinds of women (in our age demographic anyway) they tend to be looking more for someone to finance their lifestyle more than they're looking for true love.

 

Eta: morning meets also have the advantage of being done so you can do out and have the rest of the day to do things. If you have a meet at 8pm on a Saturday, that's it, the evening is done! And you won't want to pack your day with too much because you won't want to be fried by 8...so it kind of puts the whole day on hold...do you know what I mean?

 

I like this advice.

 

I sympathize with your comment, JJ, about limited time. It's true. That's why I try to force myself into a morning workout routine (important once a rl is established, as well, unless we've no kids and the desire to work out together, and yes, I too over parentheses). It's also why I look at the first meet as an appointment on my calendar. An hour for a drink. At 5, announcing in advance that I have to leave by 6 to make my next obligation (a work event, kids in my case, dinner with a friend). On this point, I ask you, do you have time for a rl? If yes, when? If no, make some, then use it for little grabs of time with ransoms from on line.

 

Re the money piece, I agree that she should have kicked in, because you did not offer food. I also like the walk idea after work, though in this weather that's tougher. And, it flat out costs money if you bring women to a bar. Faraday's idea of mornings and/or walks is a good one - wealthy men I know also resist spending money on first meets. Anyone who judges you for that is making it easy for you to weed them out. There are so many good walks where you are, and it forces people up and out on the weekend.

 

That said, a break is always okay. It is always important to remember that this is a screening exercise. The immediate payoff is being able to make a go/no go decision. More casual dating offers a more immediate payoff, and more long term headaches. This just switches the headache to happen first, and presumably with less intensity.

 

To me, your reflections sound similar to ones spoken by many of us. Not sure you need to change a thing, despite what I've written. It is a drag when a date is a disappointment. Tbh, I can't remember the last time I had expectations high enough to be disappointed. I do remember wondering how the heck I let one guy past my initial screen, and that WAS annoying. The guy I am dating now I didn't expect to like. He hit a few of the required elements, but I thought we wouldn't get along. Instead, we talked twice as long as the appointed time slot and I was home an hour later than I had planned. If it can be a positive surprise, it can also be a negative one. I'm willing to take the good with the bad.

 

Good luck out there!

[reinventmyself]

I learned early on to have low or no expectations, that way I am not disappointed and sometimes pleasantly surprised.

That and as others have pointed out - Short meet & greets, that way you don't leave frustrated at the time and money invested in something that you were ultimately disappointed in. If you continue to go in with high hopes and giving too much of yourself, whether it's time or money you are likely to burn out and get discouraged quickly.

Once I shifted the way I went about it, it just got a little easier.

Chin up and carry on!

[notalady]

This was my first new meet up in about three weeks.

 

I think that's where the expectation issue lies. I know for me, when I know I have more than one prospects lined up (even just two), I'm not as invested in any one of them right from the get go as I would have if it was just one person. It helps give me more objectivity and I can more easily walk away if I see red flags. And to invest more in one person becomes more of a choice rather than an emotional reaction to perceived scarcity.

 

The morning coffee suggestion is great, I used to do morning coffee on the weekends and week days I did lunch meets, so that I only had an hour to meet and then have to go back to work. I think one or two a week is totally do-able. I can see one every three weeks with no other prospects in sight would give you a feeling of this one being somewhat special when it is likely just another meet. And to be honest, before your meet when I read about it, I thought to myself you'd be really really lucky if this just so happens to work out, because it's just so rare for it to happen so easily and quickly you know. It's almost expected that a first meet won't work out, probability wise.

[John John]

What I don't think some of you quite understand is that, at least with eHarmony (the only site I'm on right now, and I turned off my matches because I'm done) is that, you only get so many opportunities sent you way. eHarmony sends you, say, 16 matches a day. Most of them you simply block because you're just not at all attracted to them, so that might leave you with one or two a day you might send a message to. Then not all of them are going to like you back, so cut THAT number in half. By the time you do all the filtering, who likes/doesn't like who back, this is why I'm only going on dates at the rate I am. That, and I just don't have the energy to do 10 dates a week like some of you describe. I don't have the time, energy, money or bluntly, the desire.

 

This girl seemed different, but it's fine. Her communication and pictures were spot on. Neither translated to in person. And the funny thing is, I was going to block her, but then thought "what's the harm in seeing her one last time for frozen yogurt, since we live a mere few blocks from each other?" I went online, and she had already blocked me (this was Saturday night). I laughed because I didn't care. I then texted her something along the lines of (without actually saying this) "I really don't care, but, just wondering why you're not interested in moving forward? I ask only because I try to learn from each encounter." Her response was "You're (insert a bunch of complimentary adjectives)....but I've been through things in my life that would prevent me from being the woman you need in yours. It wouldn't be fair to either of us. I wish you the best of luck." And that was that. And I believe her. I feel as though she's majorly wrapped up in something. And I wasn't that attracted to her. But I'm trying to be open minded, so I was going to at least see her one last time just to make sure...

 

I can no longer stomach online dating. I just can't. I do not have it in me anymore. So, I don't know what's going to become of my dating life. I'm not upset over this girl (at all), but feel the worst I ever have about the overall process and my prospects. Between work, the gym (which is a requirement to date in NYC, so can't give up the gym to make more time to date), and my family and friends, I only have so much time to waste on these pointless dates.

 

I've been thinking about just really giving up this time and focusing my life elsewhere. I don't really care about all the bs people spew about "not needing anyone," "no one completes you," "you complete yourself," "you don't need anyone to be happy," "a relationship isn't the end all be all." While there may very well be truth to all of those sayings, it just isn't the way I feel. Maybe it's me. Maybe I'm effed up. Maybe it's the way I was raised. Maybe it's the fact that all my f#$king friends have someone. Maybe it's the fact that I didn't like having to sit across from a 5-year couple last weekend (although I volunteered to be the 3rd wheel, and I actually did have a good time in the moment - this pain came afterwards) while she turned to kiss his arm every couple of minutes (they are the age I was when my ex-gf left me).

 

I really don't care what anyone says. This is just the way I feel. But the universe just doesn't want to cooperate. I have a ton to offer the right woman. A f3%#king ton (and that is NOT me being conceited -I am the complete opposite). I don't want to find a woman when I'm 40, starting to slow down, going to the gym less, not as energetic or attractive, etc. I won't be interested by the then. This just isn't the way things were supposed to be. And don't give me "let go of the way you think things were supposed to be," I am allowed to feel this way and not like the way my life is going despite all the hard work I have put into all facets of my life (but get nothing to show for it).

 

F#%k online dating, and f#$k the lack of luck (which is all that dating is based on) in my life. I give up. I can't do this anymore.

[WithLove]

I get it. I feel like I have a lot to offer someone, too. I feel like I can be (and I have been!) a really kick a*s girlfriend. But it's just not happening right now. I don't care to try OLD again simply because of all the things you've described above. People not being sincere, having different motives, not matching up with their photos, wanting something different but lying to you because "they didn't want to ruin something so good and thought maybe you'd change your mind"... (okay, that last one was pretty specific, lol...)

 

I have nothing else to do but continue working on myself and focusing my energy on other things. I don't feel that I'll honestly ever be in the right "frame of mind" where I'll be completely content with who I am... simply because the person I want to be includes having someone else in my life that's important to me. Like you, I know I'm a catch... And I'm not being conceited, either. I have no family or previous ex drama, I live alone and support myself, I have transportation, I'm motivated. I have most of my sh*t together. The only thing, really, that I have a ton of room for improvement for is my weight, which I'm actively working on every day. In the two weeks I've been on WW, I've lost 5 lbs, and I never even exercised in that time. Now I am and I know it'll just get better from there.

 

Anyway, sorry to tangent out to writing about myself. I just wanted you to know that the universe isn't working for me, either. So, you're not alone! Take heart. We can get through this hurdle. Sometimes it just takes.... you know, concentrating on other things. Letting a subject like your dating life sit on the backburner and focus on other stuff. Something will happen to bring it to the forefront again, I just know it.

[John John]

I get it. I feel like I have a lot to offer someone, too. I feel like I can be (and I have been!) a really kick a*s girlfriend. But it's just not happening right now. I don't care to try OLD again simply because of all the things you've described above. People not being sincere, having different motives, not matching up with their photos, wanting something different but lying to you because "they didn't want to ruin something so good and thought maybe you'd change your mind"... (okay, that last one was pretty specific, lol...)

 

I have nothing else to do but continue working on myself and focusing my energy on other things. I don't feel that I'll honestly ever be in the right "frame of mind" where I'll be completely content with who I am... simply because the person I want to be includes having someone else in my life that's important to me. Like you, I know I'm a catch... And I'm not being conceited, either. I have no family or previous ex drama, I live alone and support myself, I have transportation, I'm motivated. I have most of my sh*t together. The only thing, really, that I have a ton of room for improvement for is my weight, which I'm actively working on every day. In the two weeks I've been on WW, I've lost 5 lbs, and I never even exercised in that time. Now I am and I know it'll just get better from there.

 

Anyway, sorry to tangent out to writing about myself. I just wanted you to know that the universe isn't working for me, either. So, you're not alone! Take heart. We can get through this hurdle. Sometimes it just takes.... you know, concentrating on other things. Letting a subject like your dating life sit on the backburner and focus on other stuff. Something will happen to bring it to the forefront again, I just know it.

 

 

Thanks Withlove. I've always appreciated your kindness and honesty So tired of people (who are usually already married, so of course it's easy for them to say, and they don't want to appear weak) telling me relationship isn't the end all be all. Yeah...easy for you to say when you're not the one who has everything BUT someone to spend their life with. I appreciate you admitting that you won't fully be who you want without someone else in your life. That is exactly how I feel. I just don't feel whole. Everyone says "you're ok exactly as you are now," and I just don't agree. There is this void in my heart that nothing else can substitute for.

 

I just feel empty.

[WithLove]

I feel the same as you in that I have a world of love to give someone, but no one around to do just that. I WANT to do that. I want to show someone how loved they could be. People waste so much love and affection on others that don't really deserve it, and I don't want to be one of those people. I want to find someone that appreciates everything I have to offer and knows how special that is.

 

 

Being so full of potential love, and not being able to share it, does really make you feel empty.

[IAmFCA]

Now, you know I have to weight in for us old heads.

 

My friend when he was 40, or 42 maybe? found his mate. He would have liked to have found her sooner, but it didn't happen for him till 40ish. He was still a triathlete, ripped, friendly, working but frankly, not burning it up. (Oh, and maybe, 5'6". ) They had two kids within 5 years or so of marriage and life rolls on.

 

Just sayin. 40 is the new 25.

[IAmFCA]

And yes, I miss the phone call at night, I miss having a partner in crime, I miss having a person to help entertain, I miss having a man so that my friends who are married will invite me out on the weekends for double dates. Having been married, even so, I can say I am never happier than I am now. I can't explain it JJ, but I can say I am sorry that the pain seems to be part of life. I wonder sometimes if I feel the pain less because I have declared it normal. My colleague calls me a sociopath, affectionately. I think there is something to it. I know the pain, but I still have a life to live. So I focus on the life part instead.

 

And yeah, dating is a massive suck of resources with only occasional payoffs. On line dating increases the number of times we go to bat, and since we go to bat more often than we run the bases, it necessarily increases the number of times we invest ourselves with minimal payoff. True true true.

 

Enjoy your dating vaca.

[LightWave93]

Anyway, sorry to tangent out to writing about myself. I just wanted you to know that the universe isn't working for me, either. So, you're not alone! Take heart. We can get through this hurdle. Sometimes it just takes.... you know, concentrating on other things. Letting a subject like your dating life sit on the backburner and focus on other stuff. Something will happen to bring it to the forefront again, I just know it.

 

I echo Withlove's sentiment. You are not alone.

 

I know that isn't particularly comforting. At the end of the day when it comes to dating we really just want to focus on ourselves, what we want and how we can go about achieving that. It's frustrating to finally meet someone who you can see potential with, only for those hopes to be dashed. I mentioned in my journal yesterday how I matched with a girl with similar interests to myself, and how our conversation seemed to go well (made her laugh, a bit of banter etc). As soon as I asked for a number, boom, gone! It happens to the best of us, my friend. Online dating is diabolical, it really is. It's a cesspit of negativity and flakes. I'm half-tempted to give it up myself, but I hate closing down what could be the opening for opportunity. I'm not active enough on the forums nor have I spoken to you enough to accurately form a solid picture of you in my hand, but from what I have seen you do have a lot to offer a woman. The thing is, it's going to have to be the right one, and those are incredibly hard to find.

 

Ya'know half the time I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. I can't even begin to count how many dating articles I've read, how many forums I've been on to try and solve my own problems. Perhaps there is no answer for the both of us. Perhaps fate or God himself has already determined how and why and when we'll meet someone, if at all. Quite frankly there is no answer. As long as you put your best self forward, make the improvements you've been wanting to see and enjoy the life that you have created for yourself, there isn't much more you can do to better your chances, but at least you will be living. 'n let's face it, if a random girl who met you ONCE could see the good in you, imagine what the right girl will think?

 

If you're going to put your faith in me, then I'm going to put my faith in you. But really, we should both put faith into ourselves.

[Seraphim]

My grandmother found her mate at 38 and that was 72 years ago. She was a beautiful beautiful woman. You would think she would've been married in a heartbeat. But for whatever reason no she wasn't . And she didn't find my grandfather until she was 38 years old . That was pretty old back 72 years ago.

 

We all want our life to follow this path that we imagine. But we have to let go of that idea .

[John John]

Yup to everything you guys are saying. I know. I don't have any power. Things just are what they are. That's why I give up. It's just luck. That is ALL life is. Luck. Why work hard, why try? Nothing happens if you don't have luck. LOL.

 

I just haven't been happy, haven't had a real reason to smile in a very long time. I sometimes feel like I have no purpose, no reason to be around. And now I know, I'm opening myself up for "you can't expect a relationship to do that for you." Maybe I'm not articulating it correctly. Yeah yeah, I have my career, education, family, friends, hobbies...but I still feel empty. I have some much offer and no one to share it with, no one to help me during bad times (although I'm sure gotten through plenty of bad times on my own, the past almost four years have been nothing but bad times), no one to do things with.

 

I have plenty of friends, but they're all in relationships, so they're only going to be free every so often. This Saturday night I spent alone. The weather wasn't great, and I've made some new friends, but the only one I think was around I wasn't comfortable reaching out to because we're still transitioning from "good acquaintances" to "friends" (if that makes sense). I try to have tact about these things. So...I spent it alone on my couch. Just feeling like a colossal failure. Loneliness is debilitating. Yet, I'm expected to be happy, no lonely, not want a relationship, etc. while everyone else I know is coupled up.

[WithLove]

I looked at my calendar last week and saw that the people I've been becoming friends with from a gaming group I joined earlier in the year were all having meet-ups over the weekend that I'm not part of (they do some things I don't have interest in, so I skip out on them). So, I reached out to 2 that I'm a little more friendly with and asked if they thought they'd like to grab lunch on Saturday afternoon (the gaming group was busy on Friday and Saturday night). They did, and also invited the rest of the group, so we all went to grab some hibachi for lunch and there were 10 of us. I'm also sort of just casual friends with most of these people and don't feel comfortable yet to reach out at any old time (and especially not on a whim), so I do have to think ahead. But it was great! Even though I didn't get to spend any gaming time with them this weekend like I wanted, I did at least have a reason to be excited for a little while on Saturday. Maybe you could do something like that.

[itsallgrand]

Your feelings are your feelings. I don't think it much matters what you are 'supposed to' feel. You feel what you feel. It's alright.

You aren't a failure. I get how you feel that way though, because you care so much about being with someone special. This isn't how you wanted things to go. So in your own mind, you are comparing what is now to what you know could be, and feel like you aren't measuring up.

 

I can't say I relate when it comes to relationships. My attitude has been and is different. It was pretty rare I ever sat single wishing I was in a relationship. And I always thought, and maybe this is cocky but it changed how I felt about being single, that being single or with someone was and is 100% in my control. If I wanted to be in one, I could. Maybe not what would make me happy in a partner, but the options are always there. So being single became something I chose for myself.

 

I'm with someone now who I'm crazy about. And he's crazy about me. It was a struggle for me though to give up being single, I won't lie. I did because he is that special to me, and I'd take time with him over any other option ( even sometimes giving up alone time).

 

I don't know if this will help you. I'm trying to throw out another perspective. Did I see myself where I am now even two years ago? Hell no. I was ready to sail into middle age on my own. Then he came along lol.

 

And there's so much appreciation both ways. We fit so well.its not like anything I've experienced before. He gets me. We are a year in and it's still like the excitement of the beginning, affection and arm kisses all the time, just better than I could have imagined.

 

It's only a matter of time for you. It's not if it'll happen. Just the time frame - sorry, you may have to find her when you are old like me lol. Is that so bad though?! It's still years and years of love.

[LightWave93]

Yup to everything you guys are saying. I know. I don't have any power. Things just are what they are. That's why I give up. It's just luck. That is ALL life is. Luck. Why work hard, why try? Nothing happens if you don't have luck. LOL.

 

I just haven't been happy, haven't had a real reason to smile in a very long time. I sometimes feel like I have no purpose, no reason to be around. And now I know, I'm opening myself up for "you can't expect a relationship to do that for you." Maybe I'm not articulating it correctly. Yeah yeah, I have my career, education, family, friends, hobbies...but I still feel empty. I have some much offer and no one to share it with, no one to help me during bad times (although I'm sure gotten through plenty of bad times on my own, the past almost four years have been nothing but bad times), no one to do things with.

 

I have plenty of friends, but they're all in relationships, so they're only going to be free every so often. This Saturday night I spent alone. The weather wasn't great, and I've made some new friends, but the only one I think was around I wasn't comfortable reaching out to because we're still transitioning from "good acquaintances" to "friends" (if that makes sense). I try to have tact about these things. So...I spent it alone on my couch. Just feeling like a colossal failure. Loneliness is debilitating. Yet, I'm expected to be happy, no lonely, not want a relationship, etc. while everyone else I know is coupled up.

 

A lot of what happens in life is down to luck, but if we don't create opportunities for that luck to show itself then really we're shooting ourselves in the foot. There's a stark difference between someone who does literally nothing to improve their situation, and someone who works hard for themselves and embraces what life has to offer.

 

I'm not going to spout off the whole "Be happy with yourself" lines, as I know you know it's true, but I can understand why you feel empty. I do too. I miss what it's like to cuddle up to someone you're deeply in love with. I miss watching them do the simplest of things only for a smile to spread across your face at the thought of "Yes, I am with this person and this person is great". It damn well hurts not to have that, and to see what seems like everyone else getting to experience that. That's the thing though, John; you have the ingredients to be that someone's lucky man, the opportunity just hasn't presented itself yet but when it does you'll shine brightly and eventually get to experience all those things you've been longing for. You feel empty now, sure, but look at everything around you BUT the couples. You have overcome obstacles not everyone has had to face in order to establish the life you have now. You have a lot going for you and eventually someone will walk into your life and recognize that.

 

You'll have your down days, buddy. You'll have more of those "sitting on the couch alone" moments. Yet the next day or the day after that you'll stand up, brush the dust off and keep on going. You have that strength in you. And eventually, it'll pay off.

[John John]

Your feelings are your feelings. I don't think it much matters what you are 'supposed to' feel. You feel what you feel. It's alright.

You aren't a failure. I get how you feel that way though, because you care so much about being with someone special. This isn't how you wanted things to go. So in your own mind, you are comparing what is now to what you know could be, and feel like you aren't measuring up.

 

I can't say I relate when it comes to relationships. My attitude has been and is different. It was pretty rare I ever sat single wishing I was in a relationship. And I always thought, and maybe this is cocky but it changed how I felt about being single, that being single or with someone was and is 100% in my control. If I wanted to be in one, I could. Maybe not what would make me happy in a partner, but the options are always there. So being single became something I chose for myself.

 

I'm with someone now who I'm crazy about. And he's crazy about me. It was a struggle for me though to give up being single, I won't lie. I did because he is that special to me, and I'd take time with him over any other option ( even sometimes giving up alone time).

 

I don't know if this will help you. I'm trying to throw out another perspective. Did I see myself where I am now even two years ago? Hell no. I was ready to sail into middle age on my own. Then he came along lol.

 

And there's so much appreciation both ways. We fit so well.its not like anything I've experienced before. He gets me. We are a year in and it's still like the excitement of the beginning, affection and arm kisses all the time, just better than I could have imagined.

 

It's only a matter of time for you. It's not if it'll happen. Just the time frame - sorry, you may have to find her when you are old like me lol. Is that so bad though?! It's still years and years of love.

 

Appreciate you at least acknowledging my feelings are my feelings. Maybe you're one of those rare people who fundamentally just doesn't need anyone. I am not one of those people, and never will be.

 

And yes, finding her later in life is bad, very bad, to me. Because it means more years of pain and loneliness while everyone else gets to be happy...and then I have less time with her. But it is what it is, right?

 

A lot of what happens in life is down to luck, but if we don't create opportunities for that luck to show itself then really we're shooting ourselves in the foot. There's a stark difference between someone who does literally nothing to improve their situation, and someone who works hard for themselves and embraces what life has to offer.

 

I'm not going to spout off the whole "Be happy with yourself" lines, as I know you know it's true, but I can understand why you feel empty. I do too. I miss what it's like to cuddle up to someone you're deeply in love with. I miss watching them do the simplest of things only for a smile to spread across your face at the thought of "Yes, I am with this person and this person is great". It damn well hurts not to have that, and to see what seems like everyone else getting to experience that. That's the thing though, John; you have the ingredients to be that someone's lucky man, the opportunity just hasn't presented itself yet but when it does you'll shine brightly and eventually get to experience all those things you've been longing for. You feel empty now, sure, but look at everything around you BUT the couples. You have overcome obstacles not everyone has had to face in order to establish the life you have now. You have a lot going for you and eventually someone will walk into your life and recognize that.

 

You'll have your down days, buddy. You'll have more of those "sitting on the couch alone" moments. Yet the next day or the day after that you'll stand up, brush the dust off and keep on going. You have that strength in you. And eventually, it'll pay off.

 

It's not that I'm not doing anything. I've done a ton to "work on myself," and all that stuff. But it's all based on luck. So no point in doing much more.

[IAmFCA]

JJ, if I recall, that sense of inner happiness is a long-term or recurring theme?

 

That is a whole different topic much deeper than dating, obviously. We ARE in control - of ourselves only. Of nobody else. So how do we deal with the desire for companionship? For the intimacy of a lifelong connection? Well, first by understanding what it is and what it isn't. Companionship etc can not be the source of our happiness nor the source of our fullness, because if that is so, then our very foundation becomes dependent on someone who is beyond our control. That in itself is oxymoronic. How can our sense of security be dependent on a variable?

 

So how to solve the happiness thing? Resolving the sense of emptiness? It is as simple as it is confounding. We become happy when we accept that we are all we need. Does that idea feel scary? Like, if I say I am all I need that I will then be a rock, a loner? Remember, to be all I need is not the same thing as being all I desire. Think about how easy it is for the independently wealthy person to excel at work; that person doesn't need it so bad, that person's basic needs are well met. Not so much is at risk, even if a career path is derailed. As a result, his/her thinking is clear and actions are limber. Nothing is clouded by fear. Similarly, when our happiness and fullness are found within, we are free to excel interpersonally. Our basic needs are well met. We are free to receive and turn away others without risk to ourselves.

 

My own story with this: when I discovered that hole within, I knew I had control over only myself and that therefore the answer had to be within my reach. Following that logic, I began to think about what I was missing. It wasn't a man, though it seemed it was - but I can't control that, so that is obviously not the answer. The power must be within me to fill this hole, as impossible as it felt. I kept digging. I found I had been thinking that I needed someone else, that having someone else on my team was essential my feeling of safety and security. My father, my sister, a bf. But how could that be true? We can control only ourselves; we can't very well lasso someone to us. As I kept thinking on it, I realized my thinking was wrong. Just flat wrong. I had been responsible for myself all along. It wasn't always pretty - often was quite a mess - but in my own way, I had made myself, been my own source of security, money, housing, education, life's lessons, a career path. I realized that I wasn't missing anything, that I had made myself and was continuing to progress, that I have everything I need to be me. That my messy curvy path was, well, my path. It ain't pretty, but its mine. I have what I need. "But what if I fail?" I kept thinking. And then I would say, So what? You have failed before. In spectacular fashion. And yet here you are. It is OKAY to have a messy path, a curvy path. It has taught me things that I am glad to know. I like how I got here. As I thought about this, I realized I wasn't missing anything. I am doing what I was meant to do. In fact, can't very well do otherwise if I wanted to. I began to see that the empty space inside was created by myself, by my feeling that I needed someone else to be safe/secure/okay. Once I figured out that I didn't need anyone else for my basic sense of security, the hole disappeared.

 

I would have read this at any moment before that moment, and thought I understood. I did not understand until that moment, and did not understand what I did not understand.

 

Nothing changed, yet, everything changed. I own myself like never before. Friends, work, and dating all have transformed in terms of quality and satisfaction. I believe this is because I am now a safer investment than before. Like the wealthy employee, I no longer need anyone else to help keep me secure at a fundamental level. I suspect I am no longer be intimacy avoidant - its why I have better friendships and more stable dating relationships. I don't mind being "seen" by others.

 

And yes, I traced this all the way back to fundamental parenting. Nice to know it had roots in my early youth. Its mine now, and up to me push through it. And that is how I got here. And what I would recommend to you, one day, when you are ready. Your therapists can't do this for you, and if I had one, I would have looked to him/her for answers and therefore would still be stuck. I had to find the answers inside, because that is the entire lesson - that we already have everything we need. That we created the sense of emptiness ourselves, and can resolve it ourselves. The emptiness may have been logical at one point - it certainly was. That time passed. We learned how to be self sufficient. It is time to let the emptiness go, and be bold enough to fill the hole ourselves.

 

I apologize for going on about this. I know the pain. I mean to be empathic. Also, to offer what I can, in case it helps.

[John John]

ITIC, I know what you mean. I'm not sure I agree only for the fact that I'm not sure the entirety of what you said applies exactly to me (although in theory, yes, I agree with all of what you're saying).

 

I fully support and take care of myself, have my friends, hobbies, family, career, etc. But yet there is this void in my heart that nothing else can fill. To me, there's just no substitute for it. Nothing quite compares. There are a number of needs that are not being met that I'm not able to fulfill myself.

 

No one really understands entirely how I feel. And I don't expect them to, because we're all different. I know how this sounds, and I know everyone is going to keep spewing the same song and dances ("no one completes you, you complete yourself" "You don't need anyone" etc.). I get how my posts come across. May be a lot of things but I'm not an idiot. These are my innermost thoughts. Aside from a very select few people, no one in my life knows how hopeless and lonely I really am. But wait....wait...I know...(and I actually somewhat agree)...I'm sure it seeps out from time to time (guess what, I'm human) and I shouldn't be lonely. Because you can only find a relationship when you're perfectly happy with your life, not lonely, etc.

 

It's paradox I will just never figure out or get past without luck. And I have zero luck. Zero.

[WithLove]

Maybe just do some FWB for a little while to lessen the loneliness?