Heather Dawn Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 This argument goes both ways. Why would he throw something good away for a technicality? If it's only just a piece of paper, he should be willing to just get married then. That's why arguments like this don't work. It reduces one's values to say it doesn't matter. I mean, if marriage doesn't matter to her then that's fine. But if it does, then she should be with someone who is down for that. By the way, when my husband and I met he didn't particularly care about marriage. I did. So, he was fine with getting married because it was just a piece of paper to him. (Ironically, though, he was very excited about getting married, pre-marital counseling, the whole process. And post-marriage he's totally a MORE committed guy in many ways.) Isn't that the funniest? My husband, who was very ambivalent about the idea of marriage (and thought of it as "just a piece of paper"), turned out to be so excited once he proposed. The months leading up to our wedding were such a joy because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms Darcy Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Isn't that the funniest? My husband, who was very ambivalent about the idea of marriage (and thought of it as "just a piece of paper"), turned out to be so excited once he proposed. The months leading up to our wedding were such a joy because of that. Haha, it's funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfan Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 You want to get married - he doesn't. He's very clear on that. Sounds like your goals are not the same and if you stay together you will resent him for "not coming around". You can't force him to want to get married, so unless you are OK with not getting married you should probably break up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Spiral Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 This argument goes both ways. Why would he throw something good away for a technicality? If it's only just a piece of paper, he should be willing to just get married then. Reasons for her to marry him: Social status. Competition with other women. Financial and legal security; if he cheats on her, she can divorce him and take at least half of everything he has. Reasons for her not to marry him: ????? Reasons for him not to marry her: It doesn't sound like he cares about his social status or competing with other men in this area. Also, once the paper is signed, he's at financial and legal risk. Reasons for him to marry her: ????? Yes, it's a technicality, but it can also be very dangerous--for men, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn3 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I know two couples who have been living together for over 20 years - one couple together for 28 years, the other for 25 - for all intents and purposes they are "married". They are incredibly happy people and didn't let "I don't ever want to get married" stand in the way of them being a couple. Many people insist that marriage is the only way, but if everything else is working really well, then I don't see any reason to break up a strong relationship just because one partner decides s/he doesn't want to get married. ~preparing to get flamed~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontiger Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Wanting to get married, not wanting to get married, neither is wrong. The only thing each person has to determine is how important their position on the subject is to them. I've meet men who only date women they feel have qualities they want in a wife. And I've meet women who are totally ambivalent about marriage. OP, on a scale from 1 to 10 how important is getting married to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Dawn Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I know two couples who have been living together for over 20 years - one couple together for 28 years, the other for 25 - for all intents and purposes they are "married". They are incredibly happy people and didn't let "I don't ever want to get married" stand in the way of them being a couple. Many people insist that marriage is the only way, but if everything else is working really well, then I don't see any reason to break up a strong relationship just because one partner decides s/he doesn't want to get married. ~preparing to get flamed~ That was my position, too. As I've said before, even though I did want to get married, there is NO way I would've left my now-husband even if we ended up 100 years old and unmarried. I was far, far too happy in my relationship to place the importance of marriage above my love for him. (And he knew that, so he also knew that not marrying me would not be a deal-breaker - and, in many ways, that probably took off the pressure and made him truly understand that I loved him no matter what...which, in turn, likely made the idea of marriage more appealing to him.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama12 Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 I would never ever marry for sheer competition with other woman who are/want to get married!!! I have my own financial independence and would never have to rely on anyone else for that!!! As regards withholding "bedroom time" that sulking!! Lol, he certainly not going to agree to get married because we can't sleep together until he says "I do"that's just silly and sulking! When we started this relationship I was against marriage/engagement etc sheerly because of what happened to me before,,( and yet I never brought it up) I would never ever say in the 1st date whether or not I wanted more kids /marriage etc, you don't know the person that well in my opinion and it's only a date,,, I'm going to talk to him tonight and ask him what's/who's "put him off", maybe there's a reason, maybe not, either way it has to said and a decision has to be made! Eek!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallgrand Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 You are the one changing your mind, not him. Why did you change your mind? You need to explain to him that you have changed your mind about marriage and why. I don't think it's fair nor productive to go to him with an aggressive tone questioning him. Which it sounds like you are coming from, whether you see it that way or not. 'Decision has to be made, I need an explanation from him'. Naw, this is on you. He doesn't have to have reasons for not wanting marriage. There is a big gap between talking about marriage on a first date and years of a relationship. Talking about it early if you want it, to me, makes sense. If you want something, you have to speak up and make choices along the way. I feel badly for your partner. You are springing this on him and don't seem to recognize its you who is changing the game. At least acknowledge to him you changed your mind and it's a matter of 'heart'. No real reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama12 Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Hi, I wouldn't under any circumstances go and be aggressive with him for any reason and relationships are far from being a "game".i never said I needed an explanation from him either!!!We talked and he now knows my reasons for wanting (rather than needing )marriage , and I know why he's"just not that into it" and they both make sense, at least we both know why the other feels the way we do, I will never force him to do something he really doesn't want to do, what's the point?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Hi, I wouldn't under any circumstances go and be aggressive with him for any reason and relationships are far from being a "game".i never said I needed an explanation from him either!!!We talked and he now knows my reasons for wanting (rather than needing )marriage , and I know why he's"just not that into it" and they both make sense, at least we both know why the other feels the way we do, I will never force him to do something he really doesn't want to do, what's the point?! Then - what do you do? Is your next move to end the relationship and find someone who does want to marry and its just a matter of deciding if you are right for eachother rather than dating a guy and assuming he is on the same page? Or are you going to paddle along hoping he changes his mind one day? If you decide to stay with him, I suggest that you do not move in with him, nor go further than simply dating. Don't ever compromise. If you do, you'll wake up one day regretting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn3 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 We talked and he now knows my reasons for wanting (rather than needing )marriage , and I know why he's"just not that into it" and they both make sense, at least we both know why the other feels the way we do, I will never force him to do something he really doesn't want to do, what's the point?! So what are you going to do now? Are you staying with him? Breaking up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama12 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 We are staying together, he knows my plans for the future and I know his and as long as we're on the same page then we'll be fine, anything changes(on either side) and it won't work,,, plain and simple,, talking really does help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama12 Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 He knows that if he wants to make plans with me then we both have to want the same thing, I /we won't be compromising once were on the same page, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather Dawn Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 He knows that if he wants to make plans with me then we both have to want the same thing, I /we won't be compromising once were on the same page, I'm confused. You're clearly NOT on the same page - you want marriage, he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capricorn3 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I'm confused. You're clearly NOT on the same page - you want marriage, he doesn't. That's what I thought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.man Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Hope I'm wrong, but this is all looking like one big cliche. This is where the OP absolves herself of responsibility of facing the black and white reality of the incompatibility and instead puts it all on the partner, conflating him staying with her with him essentially agreeing to her terms even though that logic could be just as well applied conversely. After some more time passes, it'll actually come to a head and she'll come back, blaming him for having wasted her time and, in her mind, having lied to her. "Well he stayed knowing what I wanted!" OP, you want something that exceeds the current status-quo of your relationship. The onus is on you to take it or leave it, not him. His needs are already being met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama12 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 Ok I'm going to try explain as best I can, After talking to my partner about my change of heart about marriage and him telling me that he wants to move in etc it turns out he's not against marriage itself but the big"church going/hotel expense/pleasing everybody"instead of the day being about love itself, he would like to head off somewhere with a small family group, get"hitched" and come home and have a party for everyone then,if he's against huge ott weddings then that's fine, if he's against marriage(which he told me he was originally) then we wouldn't have a future together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujusamples Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Ok I'm going to try explain as best I can, After talking to my partner about my change of heart about marriage and him telling me that he wants to move in etc it turns out he's not against marriage itself but the big"church going/hotel expense/pleasing everybody"instead of the day being about love itself, he would like to head off somewhere with a small family group, get"hitched" and come home and have a party for everyone then,if he's against huge ott weddings then that's fine, if he's against marriage(which he told me he was originally) then we wouldn't have a future together. So I guess you and your partner are on the same page after all? It's not marriage that he's afraid of, he just doesn't want a big wedding. That's totally acceptable in my opinion. I'm glad things worked out well for you after you talked with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mama12 Posted July 26, 2016 Author Share Posted July 26, 2016 I'm delighted that we talked, like when he originally said he was against marriage I had to rethink what I wanted, a huge ott wedding doesn't have to be on the cards for me to be happy,,, honestly I'd be happy to go and have fries& a burger somewhere, he is not as religious as myself so wouldn't want the church thing etc. God if it wasn't cleared up from talking things maybe would be a lot different today, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youareworthy Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 What a lovely happy ending to this thread! Hooray for heart-to-heart communication! You and your boyfriend have made my day!!! Youareworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Ok I'm going to try explain as best I can, After talking to my partner about my change of heart about marriage and him telling me that he wants to move in etc it turns out he's not against marriage itself but the big"church going/hotel expense/pleasing everybody"instead of the day being about love itself, he would like to head off somewhere with a small family group, get"hitched" and come home and have a party for everyone then,if he's against huge ott weddings then that's fine, if he's against marriage(which he told me he was originally) then we wouldn't have a future together. Are you on the same page about a priest/rabbi/pastor officiating the marriage even if its small or at a destination vs heading to a courthouse? Are you going to tell him that there is no "living together" - that if the goal is marriage - the moving in together thing doesn't happen? That you wait until the time comes where you both are ready to get married, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 It really depends on what you value most - being married, period, or being in a happy relationship that may never lead to marriage. Exactly. If marriage is more important than being with the person you love, then better split up with him and (hopefully) find someone else. But remember - marriage is a human construct, and a construct that is significantly failing us in modern society. Why exactly is it that you want to get married? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abitbroken Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Are you on the same page about a priest/rabbi/pastor officiating the marriage even if its small or at a destination vs heading to a courthouse? Are you going to tell him that there is no "living together" - that if the goal is marriage - the moving in together thing doesn't happen? That you wait until the time comes where you both are ready to get married, etc? My point is, you want to make sure this transformation (saying "NO" to marriage ever versus saying no to the big hoopla is a strong statement) is legit and not just something he says to pacify you. In otherwords, you accept this, you move in together, and you find out later he really has no intent to marry you after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 It's funny how people set their goals and then select their partners to fit those goals, e.g. marriage and kids. Perhaps people might get more success if they chose their partner and let whatever happen naturally from there. Some people aren't destined to get married or have kids. Also, it is possible to have kids and a lifelong relationship without marriage. I find a lot of people say they want to get married, but actually have no idea why. It just seems like social conditioning half the time. Wiseman2 was closest to the truth earlier in this thread, marriage brings you a set of slight legal benefits. But it also seems to immediately detract from the romance of the relationship by all accounts. Seems like a heavy price to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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