The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[annie24]

I know. I just can't help but be concerned about how it would affect things in the future with him. But I do know what you're saying, I really do get it, in terms of needing to be completely self-sufficient and financially stable.

 

With him or without him, having $5000 in the bank will help your future. It's only positive, there is no negative.

[annie24]

Substance abuse... Should bother me but really doesn't. I care about his health and safety, but beyond that, I'm still having a hard time seeing the problem with it. He makes it to work on time. He's sweet and fun and affectionate and never has a critical word, unlike most alcoholics when they're drunk (seems like? those are the types you hear about most often). I realize that I'm naive and failing to see certain problems associated with it. But I love him, and I don't judge. Just like I hope he doesn't judge me for my anxiety.

 

How about not being able to stop drinking so he can drive over to see you? Isn't that a problem associated with his drinking?

[lostlove76]

I just did a super-quick google search to see if I could find any statistics about how many people who are already in relationships use dating sites, and this popped up (and of course it's just survey-based, so not entirely accurate, but I don't want to spend hours researching this in order to form a more well-rounded conclusion):

 

"research claims that 30% of Tinder users surveyed are married, while another 12% are in a relationship"

 

So that's 42% of Tinder users are either married or in a relationship. This is disturbing and depressing!!! It's almost as if you can't trust anyone, and it can't be avoided. So that's why I don't know how rigid to be. If he gets on there once/twice and doesn't get on again, then perhaps it should be forgiven. I'm just trying to be open-minded is all. I'm not okay with it, period. But if almost half of people who are already taken are getting on these stupid sites, then it's all a crapshoot anyhow. What would you guys do in this situation? Drop him immediately or give him a chance to not do it again? If it were your guy and not mine, just ignoring any of the other problems.

[annie24]

What would you guys do in this situation?

 

I would drop him. I've been in a similar situation and did so. In my mind, a man who is on a dating site is looking to meet someone else and is not committed to me. Therefore, it's time to end the relationship.

 

From my perspective as an online dater, to avoid men who are married or in relationships, I look for inconsistencies in what they say/do. I go to their apartment - is it their apartment alone or is a woman living there? Can he see me regularly? Does he act secretive with his phone? Can he not spend holidays with me?

[lostlove76]

How about not being able to stop drinking so he can drive over to see you? Isn't that a problem associated with his drinking?

 

Yes, it is. Just not sure whether that's an excuse because of the other issues (size of place, jobs, intimacy fears, all that) or if he really can't stop drinking long enough to come. A little of both, I would suppose.

 

Remember that I've made it clear to him that coming just to see me isn't an option. It was pick me up to go back and live with him, or nothing. Maybe that was a ridiculous stance to take. I was wondering earlier if I should change my ultimatum to "just come see me next week" and put off the living together. Just afraid he'll take advantage of that, get to see me, and continue to put off the living together. But like you're saying, that would be the most practical route anyhow.

[annie24]

Yes, it is. Just not sure whether that's an excuse because of the other issues (size of place, jobs, intimacy fears, all that) or if he really can't stop drinking long enough to come. A little of both, I would suppose.

 

 

Either way, it doesn't bode well when a man doesn't take the time to come and see you...... and definitely not when he has an online dating profile.

[lostlove76]

I would drop him. I've been in a similar situation and did so. In my mind, a man who is on a dating site is looking to meet someone else and is not committed to me. Therefore, it's time to end the relationship.

 

From my perspective as an online dater, to avoid men who are married or in relationships, I look for inconsistencies in what they say/do. I go to their apartment - is it their apartment alone or is a woman living there? Can he see me regularly? Does he act secretive with his phone? Can he not spend holidays with me?

 

Yep, you have to be on the lookout for those things when you're online dating! I've had guys even admit to being married, as if this doesn't make them total $h;theads?!? I honestly don't have much faith in men. You really have to be careful.

 

So you would drop him, good to know. I thought I would too, but here I've let it slide again. Through all my googling, it seems that a lot of guys get on there for ego boosts and attention and that's it. Then there are the guys who are actually looking to cheat. I'm not okay with any of it, but I would be much more forgiving of the ego-boost/boredom/whatever. I've also seen where guys will get on after an argument with their girlfriends, seems to be pretty common. None of which is okay! I've grilled him about whether he's talking to anyone else, and he says no and sounds sincere. He has a hard time lying. If he's hiding something, he'll act shady and evasive rather than straight-up lie. So I think I believe him. But if he gets on again, I won't know what to do. I couldn't let it slide AGAIN.

[annie24]

I have no time or patience for the "ego-boost" explanation. I don't buy it. Even if it is true, I don't want to be with someone who resorts to messing around on dating sites to feel better about himself. Surely he can go to the gym or go for a run if he wants to feel more attractive? Or maybe find the confidence within himself.

 

I mean, yes, even if 40% of guys on there are not actually single, it means that 60% ARE single. So you have to sort... and listen to what they say and pay attention to their actions. Some men say upfront that they are separated, and I say I don't want to deal with that. I only want divorced or single.

[lostlove76]

I have no time or patience for the "ego-boost" explanation. I don't buy it. Even if it is true, I don't want to be with someone who resorts to messing around on dating sites to feel better about himself. Surely he can go to the gym or go for a run if he wants to feel more attractive? Or maybe find the confidence within himself.

 

I mean, yes, even if 40% of guys on there are not actually single, it means that 60% ARE single. So you have to sort... and listen to what they say and pay attention to their actions. Some men say upfront that they are separated, and I say I don't want to deal with that. I only want divorced or single.

 

I agree with you. Really I do. I guess I'm making excuses, huh, trying to find some way to be okay with it. But I was absolutely not okay with it, because it immediately caused this past week of upset. My heart dropped when I saw him on there. I told myself I was done, I told him I was done, I meant to be done. But then he called. I ignored and felt guilty. Then he called again, and I answered but didn't give in. Then he called again the next night, and I answered and tried not to give in, but eventually I did - but only with an ultimatum, what was meant to be one final chance at doing what I feel he needs to do. And I can already feel myself weakening on that too, because like you say, it's not the most practical or wise decision.

 

I wonder if I should just give myself a break over the next few days from trying to make a decision. He's either going to come on Wednesday or he isn't. If he does, problem solved (at least this particular problem). If he doesn't, I really don't know what to do. I find myself incapable of cutting him off for good. I stay mad for a little while and it helps keep me from giving in to him, but then the anger wears off and missing him sets in, and he's calling and calling and saying over and over how much he loves me, and I give in. Not talking to him makes me feel MISERABLE, because I love him and I miss him, and anger can only keep that at bay for so long. So if he doesn't come this week, I honestly don't know what to do. Just resign myself to weeks of sadness and misery as I ignore all his phone calls until he gives up or gets in the car and drives up here? I don't know. So maybe I shouldn't try to decide, and should just wait and see what he does.

 

The dating site... I really don't know what he's doing on there. I don't believe he's looking to replace me, by any means. I 100% believe him that he feels I'm his soulmate and the one for him and he wants to be with me forever. At most, he's looking for something on the side - which is still NOT okay, and if I knew of him actually meeting someone or talking to them at length, my decision to drop him would be clear. But he got on and right back off two times in the past month+ so I don't know what he was doing. Maybe he had a stupid moment of boredom and curiosity and was looking at his matches since the site will send those monthly emails. I guess if he doesn't get back on then it was nothing. If he does, then I have to face the facts, right.

[lostlove76]

So I guess I've decided to stick with the ultimatum: if he doesn't come Wednesday to get me, I'll have to quit talking to him. I really hate to lose him, but I simply can't live like this anymore. If we could talk every day, I would probably stick with it for a lot longer in the hopes that he would one day feel more ready for the big step of me moving there. But I can't handle anything more than two days in a row of not talking, such as now (he doesn't call when he works overnight shift on Friday/Sat). Waaaaay too many doubts start filling my head while we're not talking. Even if I can manage to keep them somewhat at bay by not overthinking things, the doubts are still there in the back of my mind. It's a shame, because he really has been doing SO much better with the calling, and I hate to end things when there's been progress. But I guess it's too little too late? Two days in a row of not talking is still too much. I really need daily contact, and I've told him this a million times. Without daily contact, I can't continue to do the long-distance and not getting to see him.

 

I was very clear that if he doesn't come Wednesday I have to be done. He said he understood, he said he's coming Wed. I told him there is no excuse that will be okay. I'm 95% sure that he won't actually come, so I'm trying to prepare myself to stick with the ultimatum and not give in when I start feeling guilty and missing him. If it bothers him that much to lose me then he can just come get me right? I've patiently given him 5 months full of excuses and broken promises. And like Annie said, LDR's just don't work unless there's an end date in sight.

 

If/when he calls Sunday/Monday/Tuesday, I'll just keep driving home the point, I guess, and remind him what the deal is. I really hope I can stick with this. It will be painful to lose him, but I've done all I can do. I really don't want to continue an inconsistent phone-only relationship indefinitely - I obviously am not emotionally equipped to deal with it. I need to be with him in the same location.

[lostlove76]

I guess I should update. We're over for good, this time.

 

Sunday night when he called, he was as sweet as always. I was feeling really guarded, and I told him that. He spent a long time reassuring me that he was definitely coming Wednesday. He listened to me as I explained why I had a hard time believing that, and why I felt I needed to guard my heart as self-protection. He really listened and understood, and I finally relaxed and let my guard down and let all the loving feelings flow again, and when we got off the phone, everything felt wonderful (although I still didn't believe he would come).

 

Less than 24 hours later, when he called Monday night, he was being a complete jerk. I asked him what changed, and he said my attitude. I asked him if he was coming and he said he didn't know, and then finally said he probably wasn't. He said he's a horrible person and that I shouldn't ever talk to him again. He said what would I do for a job there, and I said he said he could get me a job, and he said he doesn't want me working where he works because it would be awkward and he doesn't want to have to take up for me if things don't work out with me working there. It was just a bad conversation. He's rarely, if ever, been a jerk like that. In the midst of it all, he was also saying that he does love me and is in love with me and I'm his favorite person and his best friend. That he's been good (as far as not cheating, I guess he meant) and wants to do the right thing. But that he's a horrible person and I'm good and he wants me to be okay. I said this was the last time he would hear my voice and he asked why. And I reminded him that I couldn't talk to him anymore if he didn't come Wednesday, and he said "Is Wednesday here yet?" as if he still might come. He was a bit back and forth, but mostly a jerk. I finally said "eff you, I never want to talk to you again" and hung up the phone. He tried calling back six times and I kept hitting decline.

 

So I'm done. And apparently he is too, given the way he was acting, and he didn't try to call last night. I hate that things ended with a fight, but they had to end somehow. I really don't know why he turned on me within less than 24 hours. He's NEVER mean like that. I guess he just knew that Wednesday was approaching, and I had given the now-or-never ultimatum, and he knew he wasn't going to follow through (despite telling me Sunday night that he was definitely coming).

 

So I'm heartbroken, once again. I never really thought he would come, so I can't say I'm surprised. But I guess I didn't expect it to end like that. I thought he would just make some excuse and I would have to gather the strength to quit talking to him. I didn't know that he was going to be mean about it. And I still don't really understand why he was. I don't know if he was in a bad mood, because he got overly drunk Sunday night and we talked til early morning, then he barely woke up in time for work and felt like crap, then went out and got drunk again after work before calling me. I don't know if it was my attitude that caused his mood, like he said. I don't know. Nothing ever makes sense with him.

[ragdoll15]

I'm so sorry I've been reading your story and I know it's tough, but it's so hard to be an outsider looking in and wanting to tell you that you deserve better and that this man doesn't love you enough. I'm going to have to get back to work soon, but I promise I'll come back tonight and write another reply to tell you my thoughts in length.

[boltnrun]

He probably planned to drink Wednesday and "having" to come get you interfered with his planned indulgence in his substance of choice.

 

Such is life with an addict.

 

And no, YOU do not cause him to be an addict. Using is what addicts do.

 

He wants to continue the "phone only" relationship. That way he can have his love of the century drama AND continue to drink as much as he wants to. Plus do whatever else it is he's doing that he doesn't want you to know about.

 

I have to say, I don't think this is done. All he has to do it give it a day or two, call you again, you'll pick up because you want to tell him how you're feeling, you'll fuss at him for an hour or two, then he'll say all those sweet words that have you feeling wonderful, he'll swear up and down that he's coming to get you "next week"...and back you'll be.

 

Prove me wrong, won't you? Because I can see this going on exactly the way it is for the next 10 years and that is the road to nowhere. And I think you can do better...hanging on to this man holds you back.

[lostlove76]

I'm so sorry I've been reading your story and I know it's tough, but it's so hard to be an outsider looking in and wanting to tell you that you deserve better and that this man doesn't love you enough. I'm going to have to get back to work soon, but I promise I'll come back tonight and write another reply to tell you my thoughts in length.

 

Thank you for your kindness

[lostlove76]

He probably planned to drink Wednesday and "having" to come get you interfered with his planned indulgence in his substance of choice.

 

Such is life with an addict.

 

And no, YOU do not cause him to be an addict. Using is what addicts do.

 

He wants to continue the "phone only" relationship. That way he can have his love of the century drama AND continue to drink as much as he wants to. Plus do whatever else it is he's doing that he doesn't want you to know about.

 

I have to say, I don't think this is done. All he has to do it give it a day or two, call you again, you'll pick up because you want to tell him how you're feeling, you'll fuss at him for an hour or two, then he'll say all those sweet words that have you feeling wonderful, he'll swear up and down that he's coming to get you "next week"...and back you'll be.

 

Prove me wrong, won't you? Because I can see this going on exactly the way it is for the next 10 years and that is the road to nowhere. And I think you can do better...hanging on to this man holds you back.

 

I really don't think he'll call again, because he knows I was serious this time, and he knows he's a jerk, and honestly I don't think he wants to keep hurting me (from what he was saying Monday night). But IF he calls again, I really don't think I'll answer. He said too much the other night. It just all came to a head, finally, and it either had to end or he had to come get me. So it had to end. I wish he would call (even though I won't answer), just so I know that he cares.

 

I know you're right about him wanting to continue the phone-only relationship. I think part of him did want more, but he didn't want to sacrifice anything for it, and he knew he couldn't handle a real relationship. He shouldn't have kept promising so many big things. Most of me didn't believe him, but my heart wanted to, and so sometimes I did.

 

The relationship wasn't everything I needed, obviously. But I will miss the good parts - all the loving words and feelings, the emotional connection, the long talks, the friendship. I'll miss HIM, because I really really loved him. Even when I got mad and tried my hardest to shut him out of my heart, I never quit loving him.

[boltnrun]

Well...you were sure he wouldn't call last time (last week, after he got on the dating sites and you sent him those texts) and yet he did. Not only did he call, but you forgave him for going on the dating sites (even though you said that was a deal-breaker) and you went back to him.

 

So, history proves that all he has to do is wait a day or two, then bombard you with calls and you will cave in, forgive him for whatever it was, and take him back.

 

You are the only one who can decide if you want to hold on to this phone-only relationship badly enough to accept anything he dishes out, and to accept that the two of you will never live together or even see each other in person...or if it's just not enough anymore.

 

And no, there is no "off" switch for how you feel about another person. My ex was awful to me and I still had feelings for him for a while. But I DID realize finally that he was no good for me and that trying to hold on to him was a waste of time. He would never be good relationship material, he was NOT going to leave the girl he left me for, and I was NOT OK with being the side piece. So I ended contact and stayed away from him. Good news is I care nothing for him now. And better news is he no longer is able to hurt me.

 

So, it's all up to you. A phone-only relationship with someone who upsets and disappoints you on a weekly basis, who makes promises but doesn't EVER keep them, who goes on dating sites when he's "bored" and who is a substance abuser...or hold out for someone in the future who WILL be there in person, who is reliable and who will be a true partner.

 

Plus, the bonus is all this time and energy you're focusing on someone who won't ever be there can now be focused on YOU, and getting your life to where it is you'd like it to be.

[LoveSoDeep]

You know, maybe his being a jerk is just what you needed to be done for good. So in a sense it's a blessing in disguise.

 

My younger brother told me once he did this to girl on purpose....being a jerk so she'd hate him. He knew she was a good person and she wanted to try to work things out. He felt in the end that it would never work and letting her have her way and keep trying to fix things was futile. After trying to end things a couple times the nice way he said "I don't really want to do it, but I think I'm going to have to make her hate me." He did and it worked....he did feel bad about it, but it had to be done (that's how he saw it).

 

You deserve someone who fulfills all your needs, not just the ones that are convenient for him.

[lostlove76]

Thank you, bolt. Your words always help, in some weird way

 

I'm glad you feel nothing for your rotten ex anymore. Maybe I'll one day get to that point as well.

 

I know he'll call again at some point. But it may be weeks, like a couple times in the past when things came to some "final" ending.

 

Have I said here before that he admits to being narcissistic? He's told me several times that he is. He said he doesn't want to be. I really don't think he fully is, because he has one of the softest hearts I know, and he really empathizes deeply with people who have problems. But maybe the alcohol makes him narcissistic in some ways, because it keeps him from facing things and numbs his emotions. He claims not to care about anyone or anything (aside from me, he said. he said he cares more about me than himself). I think there is some truth in that - I think he convinces himself not to care.

 

I guess I go back and forth between feeling sorry for him and feeling like he's selfish and heartless. Right now I'm feeling sorry for him, but I still won't answer if he calls. I can't handle it anymore. I'm not cut out for all the ups and downs and uncertainties.

 

I don't foresee ever finding anyone else who I loved as much as him or connected with so deeply. I say "loved" instead of "love" because I'm trying to accept that he's now in the past. I very seriously doubt that I'll ever even be interested in anyone again. No one will compare to the intensity that I felt with him. But I guess I need to focus on getting my own self and life in order, and then I guess you never know. Maybe I feel like my pool of options is extremely small at this point in my life, and that's why I feel I'll never meet anyone else. But I truly don't WANT anyone else. So I went from what I had with him, lacking in so many ways though it might have been, to having nothing even on the horizon. I'll truly miss what I had with him. But I just couldn't handle it, the way things were!

[lostlove76]

You know, maybe his being a jerk is just what you needed to be done for good. So in a sense it's a blessing in disguise.

 

My younger brother told me once he did this to girl on purpose....being a jerk so she'd hate him. He knew she was a good person and she wanted to try to work things out. He felt in the end that it would never work and letting her have her way and keep trying to fix things was futile. After trying to end things a couple times the nice way he said "I don't really want to do it, but I think I'm going to have to make her hate me." He did and it worked....he did feel bad about it, but it had to be done (that's how he saw it).

 

Part of me wondered if that's what he was doing. Making me hate him by being a jerk. It's just that unlike your brother and his ex, this wasn't me trying to hang on while he ended it, it was quite the opposite. I've tried to push him away and end things dozens of times, and he has kept calling and calling and calling and saying all the right things and promising the world, while I was saying horrible things to him and telling him I couldn't take it anymore and refusing to answer the phone and telling him it was over. So why would he suddenly become a jerk in order to end things?? I think maybe he just finally realized how much he was hurting me, and was aware that he was promising things he couldn't deliver, and maybe started feeling bad for it. So became a jerk to drive me away for my own good. I think like Bolt keeps saying, he would have been happy to keep what we had going forever. Maybe he got frustrated because I backed him into a corner, maybe he was mad at himself for going along with it right up until the very end.

 

I think you're right that it is what needed to happen. When he sweet-talks, it's close to impossible to resist. Now my "last memory" so to speak is of him being a jerk, and maybe I can use that to help me not fall back into it again. And I won't feel like it was my fault. I'm usually the one being mean, and then I feel guilty. This time he was mean, so hopefully I won't start feeling guilty.

 

You deserve someone who fulfills all your needs, not just the ones that are convenient for him.

 

Thank you. I think I've lost complete touch with what a relationship is supposed to be like.

[Realitynut]

Oh My! You will hear from him again. Been doing the same thing for 2 years. Sunday I decided to 'end it all'...by taking my things out of the fridge. lol

But he's been mean.

 

Are you going to keep 'broke up' if he calls and is all 'nice' again. Let's say...it's been a week...or two....you are lonely, he is lonely. He calls. You take it. He says, "I'm such a jerk, I am so in love with you, please forgive me."

 

What will you do?

 

Trust me....this story is not over. You are use to crumbs. And will take them again.

 

Been there....done that.

[LoveSoDeep]

Maybe he wanted to make it so that he felt like he couldn't come crawling back anymore. Maybe not even consciously...but maybe somewhere deep down he knew if he screwed it up bad enough he'd feel like he couldn't come back. I think he knows at this point that he shouldn't keep coming back. I hope for your sake, that this time he really stays away.

[boltnrun]

Everyone feels like they'll never love again. And that they'll love this person forever.

 

I said that.

 

But I didn't, and I don't.

 

You can spend some time getting your life the way you want it without outside pressure or distractions. And then, who knows? Once you're happy and secure you probably won't even want this phone-only relationship with its inherent insecurity. And you'll realize trying to have a relationship with a self-absorbed addict who talks a great game but constantly breaks promises is not good enough for you anymore.

 

ETA: He WILL call again. It's all up to you whether or not you want this situation to continue EXACTLY AS IT IS, or if it's just not enough anymore. YOU are in charge...not him.

[annie24]

I think you should consider blocking all his calls so you can move on for good. I'm not really surprised how things ended. I think he just didn't want to take things to the next level and you put your foot down. You will find someone again, someone better, someone who will want to move in with you and be with you and not be an alcoholic. Please remember that this man is an alcoholic and his #1 love is the booze. He's not going to have a functional relationship until he deals with his problems.

[lostlove76]

Thanks guys. On phone, so can't quote. Realitynut, way to take a stand with taking your food out of the fridge, haha. Seriously though, symbolic things like that can help us feel more in control.

 

LovesSoDeep, I bet you're right and that's exactly what he was doing. I think I've done the same thing to him many many times. Telling him I hate him, don't love him anymore, he's a horrible person, etc etc. Just awful awful things, I've said to him, and during some of it, I do think I was trying to make it so that we couldn't go back because I knew this isn't good for me. That's probably what he was doing. Because he knows how much he's hurting me, and maybe also knows that we both lack the self-control to stay away from each other. I think he does have moments of clarity when he knows that he's not treating me as he should. He surely knows what a crappy move it was to promise all the way up through Sunday that he's coming, and then bail out yet again. He knows he'll keep doing it if I let him, I guess.

 

Bolt and realitynut, I'm really not so sure that he'll call again any time soon. This was pretty serious, his backing out like this. Most of the other times he said he was coming were kind of vague; this time was very specific: come Wednesday or I can't talk to you anymore. And he said he was coming Wednesday. And then he didn't.

 

Thanks to everyone for listening and offering advice/feedback/support. Sometimes I just really need to talk this stuff out and make some kind of sense of it all.

 

I do think he loves me to his fullest capability. I know he does. But he's not capable of providing more, because of his alcoholism and selfishness and intimacy issues and self-hatred and whatever else is going on with him. He knows this. I think there have been times when he really did want to be a better person, but I guess he just isn't capable. I don't fully understand it, but it is what it is.

[lostlove76]

Annie, I probably should block his number, but it makes me feel better when he tries to call. Cutting him off completely is SO hard. Just knowing he's on the other end, trying to reach out, makes me feel like he misses me and cares. It's not fair or kind of me when I don't answer, but like I've said before, it took me well over a year of hurt and frustration to ever get to the point of doing that. And he's done way way worse. So as long as I can resist answering, I wish that he would call. I guess even though I KNOW I need to break ties and be done, it's going to take my heart a while to catch up and truly want nothing to do with him. I love him And he wasn't all bad by any means. In some ways, he's truly the sweetest person I've ever met. So I guess I'm not ready to completely eliminate the option of talking to him just yet. If that makes any sense.