The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[Silverbirch]

This sounds great -- and a lot like me and my current boyfriend. We took things VERY slowly. At first, very early on, I was a tad worried because I didn't feel like I was "infatuated" with him like I had been with my ex. I wondered, briefly, if that meant something. I found him attractive, with a GREAT personality, sense of humor, and intelligence, but I wasn't obsessed with thoughts of him 24/7, so I was worried that something was *wrong*. Well, what was *wrong* was actually something very RIGHT -- over time, we developed a deep connection, learned that we have almost identical values and many shared interests, complementary temperaments, etc. Looking back, I'm SO glad we didn't jump right in (i.e. sex right away, seeing each other constantly, etc). I realized that all those "butterflies" and obsessive thoughts I had about my ex (and a few other guys), were just superficial things. And, I realized the more sparks and over-the-top romance movie stuff that happened right away, the worse a guy was for me! (Like my ex saying, "I can see myself spending the rest of my life with you" on the third date (he dumped me for the first time not long after that, and it was the first of quite a few times he withdrew from me).

 

I like your approach, Silverbirch; this guy sounds like he may be a keeper, but you're keeping a cool head and letting things unfold slowly. Time will tell, but it seems very promising!

 

thanks Browneyedgirl. Well, we had coffee today which is something we do regularly as we live down the road from each other. I'm not sure if Ai saw a red flag today, but it's something I'm not going to close my eyes too,many will be cool about how I find out more. There was something on my television in the background about an indigenous artist who had created art which represented personal and political sentiments. It was the first time I ever sensed what Si think MAY have been intense hostility. I think he may be racist, but Ai don't know. I can't really understand why he might be as there are NO indigenous people in the state he was born in - they all died. I'm certain they would not have taught racist values at his school, and his parents who were both schoolteachers seem extremely unlikely to have been racist. Today, Zi did recall something he had said to me about politics and indigenous people, but Zi didn't necessarily interpret that as racist - though Zi did think that perhaps some of his views might be challenged. Anyway, if he is racist, it is definitely going to be a deal breaker. As well, racism to me is likely a sign of ignorance and intolerance and likely a red flag to other forms of intolerance. I do hope I am wrong, but this time, Zi won't close my eyes.

 

Browneyedgirl, I still think my ex was the most handsome man I was ever with. I'm not at all physically attracted to this friend. But I wish I didnt feel that way. Today he mentioned that he was getting his head shaved again, and growing his beard back. I think I may have talked him out of both although of course, it's his choice. I've seen him with head shaved and it's not a good look on him. As well, I saw a photo of him with beard, and it just makes me want to run a mile.

 

Sorry, not feeling very sure of things, and truly don't want to be with anyone right now although I wouldn't rule it out in the future.

 

I'm glad you are with someone nice Browneyedgirl.

[Silverbirch]

I have an acquaintance who is a relationship advice columnist, and she actually wrote a column about the whole "sparks" thing. She said that, often, intense feelings of attraction/"sparks" right away are a bad sign -- a sign of an impending toxic relationship. She explains it way better than I do, but she says that these intense feelings about someone we've just met are usually tied to past hurt, rejection, trauma, etc. The longer I live, and the more I experience, I am inclined to believe it.

 

When I was hung up on my ex -- who, by outward appearances is dynamic, charismatic, interesting, charming (and yes, physically attractive) -- someone like my current boyfriend wouldn't have registered on my radar because, while he's handsome, very intelligent, kind and generous, and hilariously funny (just to mention a few of his great qualities) he's a much more low-key, fly-under-the-radar presence; he's got a calm way about him; he's not loud or boisterous (like my ex was), doesn't need to be the center of attention and of every conversation (like my ex did/does). At the time I was on-off with my ex, my self-worth was in the basement, and I had him on SUCH a pedestal, but now, I don't find him attractive at all, and, honestly, I think he's....a phony. I realized that all of his positive traits are things that, ultimately, are superficial. Charisma, charm, a dynamic presence -- all can be crafted, can be "put on." My current boyfriend is EXACTLY the opposite -- not a thing phony/superficial about him. Very real, genuine. Everyone says so. A few years ago, blinded by my ex's "show," I would have missed a really great guy. Now, at last, I'm healthy enough to know a good thing when I see it -- finally!

 

Browneyedgirl, most of the men I have been with have had elements of this, and certainly didn't bring me happiness. I wish I could feel a bit more physical attraction, and Im hoping this will change.

[browneyedgirl36]

thanks Browneyedgirl. Well, we had coffee today which is something we do regularly as we live down the road from each other. I'm not sure if Ai saw a red flag today, but it's something I'm not going to close my eyes too,many will be cool about how I find out more. There was something on my television in the background about an indigenous artist who had created art which represented personal and political sentiments. It was the first time I ever sensed what Si think MAY have been intense hostility. I think he may be racist, but Ai don't know. I can't really understand why he might be as there are NO indigenous people in the state he was born in - they all died. I'm certain they would not have taught racist values at his school, and his parents who were both schoolteachers seem extremely unlikely to have been racist. Today, Zi did recall something he had said to me about politics and indigenous people, but Zi didn't necessarily interpret that as racist - though Zi did think that perhaps some of his views might be challenged. Anyway, if he is racist, it is definitely going to be a deal breaker. As well, racism to me is likely a sign of ignorance and intolerance and likely a red flag to other forms of intolerance. I do hope I am wrong, but this time, Zi won't close my eyes.

 

Browneyedgirl, I still think my ex was the most handsome man I was ever with. I'm not at all physically attracted to this friend. But I wish I didnt feel that way. Today he mentioned that he was getting his head shaved again, and growing his beard back. I think I may have talked him out of both although of course, it's his choice. I've seen him with head shaved and it's not a good look on him. As well, I saw a photo of him with beard, and it just makes me want to run a mile.

 

Sorry, not feeling very sure of things, and truly don't want to be with anyone right now although I wouldn't rule it out in the future.

 

I'm glad you are with someone nice Browneyedgirl.

 

I understand; it's hard to know whether it's that you're not attracted to HIM per se OR if you're just not "in the mood" to be attracted to anyone. I've gone through periods where no one looked good to me, where no one sparked any interest in me.

 

I hear you about the shaved head and beard thing. When I first started dating my ex, he had longish hair (almost shoulder-length) AND a full beard, two things I don't like on a guy, looks-wise. I had actually met him two years prior to us actually dating, and back then he had short hair and no beard, and he looked SO much better (to me). In fact, I would say he was VERY attractive. But, I got past the long hair and beard and found myself really attracted to him anyway (maybe because I recalled what he looked like without them -- LOL!) I DO really think that intense attraction is one of the things that makes it hard to get over an ex, no matter what kinds of misery they cause us. Time and time again I read stories on hear about people who have trouble getting over an ex, and they often emphasize how attractive the ex was. That, in combination with the ex triggering something -- rejection/abandonment issues, co-dependency, self-worth/self-esteem issues -- can make him or her VERY difficult to get over, regardless of bad behavior.

 

I believe that friendship CAN develop into something more over time. Not always, but it can. I have friends who married people that they were friends with first, and they seem really happy. You just never know. Keep an open mind, but keep your feet firmly planted on the ground.

 

I think you're smart to follow your gut and NOT be with anyone unless/until you are ready. Too many relationships crash and burn, leaving hearts dashed to pieces, because someone got involved in a relationship that they shouldn't have.

[browneyedgirl36]

Browneyedgirl, most of the men I have been with have had elements of this, and certainly didn't bring me happiness. I wish I could feel a bit more physical attraction, and Im hoping this will change.

 

I came to the conclusion at one point that if I were to have a successful relationship, it would be with someone EXACTLY the opposite of my ex. The guy I'm with now is pretty much the opposite of my ex in every conceivable way -- so I think my hunch was right!

[Silverbirch]

Thanks Browneyed girl and sorry for hijacking your thread LL.

[browneyedgirl36]

Thanks Browneyed girl and sorry for hijacking your thread LL.

 

I was thinking the same thing, but hopefully our exchange has helped LL a bit.

 

LL, how are you doing?

[Silverbirch]

Yes, how are you going LostLove?

[lostlove76]

Hey guys. It's okay. Just feeling pretty low today! I found yet another picture that indicates trashy girl is in the same town as my ex, so yet more "clues" that they're together. I keep looking, hoping to find the opposite. Her husband updated his profile pic today to another picture of him and her (an older pic), and he still has himself listed as married -- so he's obviously still holding out hope. Someone commented that his wife is beautiful, and he said yeah but totally nuts. So not only is she married, trashy, wasted all the time, uneducated, obnoxious, and a cheater... she's also crazy, which was already evident from all her crazy online posts.

 

I know I'm obsessing. But it makes me feel sooo hurt and angry that he dropped what we had for THAT. This crazy trashy married woman. I know I'm going way overboard with the word "trashy" but I guess I'm just venting, and failing to understand WHY he would give up his supposed "soulmate" and the girl he said was "perfect for him" for this crazy woman. And it was so heartless of him to lead me on for so long with such strong loving words, and then just drop me without a care and replace me like that.

 

Just having a lot of anger today, among other feelings. It really bugs me that they're having the time of their life together, while here I am still struggling to cope (never mind heal), and her husband (who seems like a nice guy) is probably just as bad off.

 

Even worse than all that, I'm still wishing he would realize he made a mistake and try to get in touch. I couldn't take him back after all this (right?) but it would feel good to at least be acknowledged.

[Silverbirch]

You know LL, with couple my exes and other women they were chasing, I did same as you and slagged the women off - so really, in my mind, the guys were getting off Scott-free because I was directing my anger at the women and not the men. Well, it takes 2 to tango, and I know for a fact these days that it was the men who were chasing and flattering the women, and making all sorts of promises. What really hurt though was to learn what one of the men had said about me. My loyalty over years through so much crisp hadn't meant a thing - until the other woman dumped him and there didn't seem anybody else about to use. Next time you get the urge to call this womanTrashy Girl, pause for a minute and ask yourself what that makes your ex - she wa/is another man's wife.

[lostlove76]

Hey Silverbirch. I agree with you. They BOTH suck. He is obviously completely lacking in morals just as much as she is. If he was a woman I would be calling him a homewrecker, but I've never heard that term used to describe a man. Whatever you call it, he is stepping into someone else's marriage and that ain't cool. And this isn't the first time he's been with a married woman, either. He really does have this horrible, classless, no morals side to him. It's just hard to accept that as being the real him, since he showed me his other side for so long. But I don't mean to let him off the hook. They are both cheaters. I wish I could see him like you guys and others see him, for what he really is. I'm trying to. I'm very angry with him for leading me on for so long and now being with her.

 

I'm sorry I didn't comment on yours and BEG's posts from earlier. I did read them. My head has just been cloudy today with these negative thoughts and it's been hard to focus on anything else. Just a bad day. I guess they'll continue to come and go for a while.

[lostlove76]

Oh also meant to say: I have no doubt that he was probably chasing and pursuing and sweet-talking her. Not saying she is incapable of doing the chasing, because I saw her coming on very strongly to another guy on Facebook during a time when her marriage was supposedly okay, and the guy made a comment about her being a married woman. But I'm sure my ex tracked her down and charmed his way in there.

[lostlove76]

I was thinking earlier how I hope that at some point, like within a month from now, I can write an update that says I'm completely over him and don't care anymore!!!! The stage of indifference would be a relief.

[Silverbirch]

Big Hugs LL. I am sure the time will come and you will be so over him, and will have met someone else who is so much better and who will be deserving of your love. When my ex G ended the relationship a few years back, I bawled my eyes out EVERY day for 4 months. RN can attest that My eyes and face looked so bad that I got Botox - first and only time. I don't regret it though. Then I went to a celebrity hair stylist - I think that cost way too much money, but I did feel better. Then I went to a clothing stylist (got a special deal n that), went to dance classes, had some horse riding lessons and basically started to live again. He did come back eventually sniffing around, but Zi didn't want him by then. Xxx

[lostlove76]

Hugs to you too Silverbirch. I'm so glad you're in a much better place now. And thank you for understanding. How long did it take for him to come back around (the time you were speaking of in your above post)? How long til you really didn't want him anymore?

[Realitynut]

LL....are you asking "how long did it take for him to come back around" cuz you're hoping??? Now I know you've read enough, to see that many do come back 'sniffing' around.....about the 4 month mark....some earlier...some later....but that is just what it is....sniffing around. It's not that they truly WANT you...they're just curious. Or they might miss you...for a bit....

 

But don't you remember also...that if and when you get back together again, that it just repeats the cycle again...only faster?

 

My take is...after that 6 week separation.....and you think he was seeing someone else, and he got back with you, that was your getting back together again. It ended (and NOT because of you) and do you really want someone who can't commit to YOU...or anyone else for that matter?

 

I remember a post you had written WAAAY back about probs you had at the very beginning of your relationship...where you were always breaking up. So it was NEVER this fairy tale "soul mate' thing you have made up in your mind. He was never a steadfast, solid, consistent bf to you...EVER !

 

We are telling you that these guys come sniffing around later...but by then we see them for the DOGS that they are.

YOU are hoping he's going to come sniffing around...and I get that.

 

It will take you a LONG time to get over him. It's not going to just magically quit/disappear...because you are DWELLING on him/her. How can you get over him, when that is your number one thought, every day...every minute.

 

Been there. Done that. (with ex. fiance') Cried every day for 4 months.....along with SB. Saw pics of him today on FB with his latest honey. It's been 5/6 years, and it still gives me a little pang in the old heart....

[Silverbirch]

Hugs to you too Silverbirch. I'm so glad you're in a much better place now. And thank you for understanding. How long did it take for him to come back around (the time you were speaking of in your above post)? How long til you really didn't want him anymore?

 

 

It was 10 months until he came sniffing around. I stopped wanting to be back with him at 5 months.

[reinventmyself]

Considering everything I think you should prepare yourself for his return visit.

It's more than likely he will.

What's important is that you are prepared for it and when the time comes, because it's likely (unless you block him!) what will you do?

[lostlove76]

Thanks RN. All you said is correct. To be honest, I DO hope he comes back, but I'm not sure what I hope it will accomplish. Obviously, I think my topmost wish would be for him to have truly realized what he lost and make a full commitment and us live happily ever after. Or at least just give us a try living in the same place, and him not cheating at all. I'm sure he isn't capable of this. So I guess my next wish would be for him to come back around so that I could be strong and reject him. I know that sounds petty, but it sure would feel good after everything he's done. And it would REALLY lessen these feelings of low self-worth that I'm having over all of this.

 

Remember that he also came back after 3 weeks NC a little over a year ago, and really stepped up the commitment in a big way. Nowhere near the level of "normal" apparently, when we look at all the ways in which he still held back, and the fact that he moved away after 6 months. But he stepped it up way beyond what I had previously thought possible. So if he did it once (twice, kind of, after the 6 weeks NC after he moved), then why not again and even better this time?

 

Thing is, though, that I'm not sure I could take him back after HER, even if I wanted to. I'm extremely hurt and angry about the whole thing. And I don't think I would ever feel "good enough" with him again, since I would know that he'd been with someone so much hotter than me. I know looks aren't everything, but that's his main reason for being with her. If she wasn't that hot, I doubt he would bother much with her for long. He can also relate to her since she's wasted all the time and has about the same morals he does, etc etc, so I know it's not JUST looks. But I do think it's mostly because he finds her hot. And I don't have a flawless figure like that. Never will. So I would probably often think of her and feel lesser than, if we did get back together. He always made me feel attractive and good enough, he really did. But in my own mind I would now be insecure.

 

I guess I just want the choice. Hearing from him would alleviate a lot of this pain, because I would feel less forgotten, even if it was just a breadcrumb. I feel like I don't even exist in his mind anymore.

[lostlove76]

It was 10 months until he came sniffing around. I stopped wanting to be back with him at 5 months.

 

I'm fairly certain (and gosh I hope I'm right) that if he comes back after 10 months, I will no longer want him. 10 months is a long loooong time!

[lostlove76]

Considering everything I think you should prepare yourself for his return visit.

It's more than likely he will.

What's important is that you are prepared for it and when the time comes, because it's likely (unless you block him!) what will you do?

 

I'm not totally sure what I would do (see previous long post). I think there's a high chance I would ignore him and see how hard he tried, and judge his sincerity by his level of effort. Because I would really feel/know that he was just coming back because things failed with what's-her-face. I would be smart enough to suspect that this time. But if he really tried hard, or left a message that sounded sincere about how he messed up, then I would maybe consider just talking to him. If nothing else, just for closure and to rid myself of some of these horribly negative feelings I've been having.

 

If it's months down the road and I've gotten to a place where I've healed and I'm not feeling heartbroken every single day, and I've started to actually move on, then I don't think I'll risk talking to him at all because I'll know the bad place it may lead me.

 

So really depends 1) how long it takes to hear from him, and 2) his level of effort, and then 3) his sincerity (I would want to hear an apology and that he messed up and that he's going to commit, and then see him act on it).

[Realitynut]

And I don't think I would ever feel "good enough" with him again....

You're saying this as if YOU'RE not good enough after this....don't you get it LL??? You should be feeling HE'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH after all of this....

[Realitynut]

Geez...Tom came back after 2 weeks. Said he had time to 'think' and he loved me. Wants to be with me. Saw me every day for a week. Went away for the weekend...big kayak trip...and we weren't talking by the time we came home. Fun 3 hour drive.

[lostlove76]

And I don't think I would ever feel "good enough" with him again....

You're saying this as if YOU'RE not good enough after this....don't you get it LL??? You should be feeling HE'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH after all of this....

 

I wish so much that I could feel that way!!! I've been doing a ton of comparisons between myself and HER. There's a whole lot bad about her, truly. BUT she's freaking HOT. Ugh, I hate that so much. It is driving me nuts. I almost wish he had never told me who she was, because it's just been torture, and I'm obsessing over it. I wouldn't give a flip if she was hot or ugly, smart or stupid, trashy or classy, if HE wasn't so into her. She can be whoever she wants to be and she wouldn't even be on my radar. But I can't help but compare and feel that he chose her over me.

 

If I try to feel like HE's not good enough, just based on him being with her, I could come up with:

1) he obviously has zero morals since he's seeing a married woman

2) the fact that he chooses someone like that suggests that he's truly not serious about settling down in any sort of real/good/healthy kind of way

3) he's shallow, since he's choosing looks over emotional/mental connection

4) he's a liar and a cheater for doing whatever he did with her while telling me that we were together and exclusive

5) typical commitment-phobe, running from the good and chasing the inappropriate

6) ...I'm sure I could go on and on and on

 

Everyone I've talked to says "what does that say about him, that he would be with her?" And I'm really trying to see it that way.

[lostlove76]

Geez...Tom came back after 2 weeks. Said he had time to 'think' and he loved me. Wants to be with me. Saw me every day for a week. Went away for the weekend...big kayak trip...and we weren't talking by the time we came home. Fun 3 hour drive.

 

On your behalf, I really hate Tom. No offense

[Silverbirch]

I wish so much that I could feel that way!!! I've been doing a ton of comparisons between myself and HER. There's a whole lot bad about her, truly. BUT she's freaking HOT. Ugh, I hate that so much. It is driving me nuts. I almost wish he had never told me who she was, because it's just been torture, and I'm obsessing over it. I wouldn't give a flip if she was hot or ugly, smart or stupid, trashy or classy, if HE wasn't so into her. She can be whoever she wants to be and she wouldn't even be on my radar. But I can't help but compare and feel that he chose her over me.

 

If I try to feel like HE's not good enough, just based on him being with her, I could come up with:

1) he obviously has zero morals since he's seeing a married woman

2) the fact that he chooses someone like that suggests that he's truly not serious about settling down in any sort of real/good/healthy kind of way

3) he's shallow, since he's choosing looks over emotional/mental connection

4) he's a liar and a cheater for doing whatever he did with her while telling me that we were together and exclusive

5) typical commitment-phobe, running from the good and chasing the inappropriate

6) ...I'm sure I could go on and on and on

 

Everyone I've talked to says "what does that say about him, that he would be with her?" And I'm really trying to see it that way.

 

 

LL,as shallow as it sounds, when G came sniffing back (when he realised the much younger Kate Moss lookalike didn't really want him), by then, I realised how much better my life was without him and all his problems. As an aside, I felt s lot better about my physical appearance than Ai did when he dumped me. As conceited as it sounds, Zi knew I was a heap hotter than him - actually, he wasn't hot stuff all. He lost a lot of hair during the time after the dumping and put on even more weight. In fact, to me he had become unattractive physically. . . And in most other ways as well.

 

Time to start pampering yourself and taking care of yourself physically.