The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[boltnrun]

LOL it's OK. I can get the general drift even with the asterisks.

 

You've really come far...a few pages back you were vigorously defending your "wonderful connection" and calling him a kind and empathetic man.

 

Now you're realizing you've been living in a fantasy started by him and embellished by your own hopes. Hopes you assigned to him even though he didn't demonstrate that he was willing or able to fulfill that role, other than talking a good game. You're realizing what he says and what he actually does do not match.

 

If you're sincere, you have made huge strides. (And I'm not really questioning your sincerity, just realizing that your emotional self may not yet be caught up with your logical self.)

 

Next on the agenda...we've just GOT to convince you to block him! At least on Facebook. And also to delete the dating site from your computer.

[lostlove76]

Thanks for acknowledging that I've come far I think you're right though that my emotional self isn't quite caught up with my logical self, so I'll probably still flip flop at times. I'm getting there though! Thanks to you guys

 

I'll phase out the dating site and Facebook as my feelings lessen. I don't think the dating site even matters much anymore. At this point, I see it as a GOOD thing if he gets on because it means he's not hung up on one person in particular yet. He hasn't been for the past couple of days and it's bothering me.

 

I'm really expecting to feel this huge letdown when he quits calling. He hasn't called since last Wed. He wouldn't have called Thurs since I answered Wed, and he wouldn't have called Fri/Sat because working overnight. So tonight would be the night to call. It feels like he's stopped though. And the reason it's going to bother me is because it will mean I'm no longer even on his mind, because he has all these other girls to talk to (or even worse, one in particular). It really helped hold me over for the three weeks he kept trying. It was on his normal calling schedule rather than just random. So I knew I was on his mind. I imagine that the next few days are going to be a new level of crappy feelings if he's stopped

[boltnrun]

Well, the "crappy feelings" are going to continue as long as you pin your self-worth on whether or not he calls.

 

It's really hard for me to fathom why you still want to be one of the many women he's interacting with. It seems like you're still hoping he throws you a few breadcrumbs and that you WANT those breadcrumbs.

 

He's done everything you say you don't want and cannot tolerate in a man. Yet, you want to hold on.

 

What is it that he is giving you that you just do not want to let go of? And I mean, what is he giving you TODAY? Not 8 months ago.

[notalady]

 

I'm just having a hard time coming to terms with it, since he filled my head with all those wonderful words for so long and I spent so long wanting so badly to believe in him.

 

And thus is the downfall of many (women in particular), they pay attention to words more than action and sometimes even ignoring action completely in favour of words.

 

Let it be a valuable lesson - always take nice words with a huge grain of salt. Remember the words and use it as a way to verify if someone keep their words, but not as something to believe in.

[boltnrun]

And thus is the downfall of many (women in particular), they pay attention to words more than action and sometimes even ignoring action completely in favour of words.

 

Let it be a valuable lesson - always take nice words with a huge grain of salt. Remember the words and use it as a way to verify if someone keep their words, but not as something to believe in.

 

Agree, also remember if someone has a history of lying and cheating, you can expect them to continue lying and cheating.

[browneyedgirl36]

LOL....someday my prince will come...was meant for YOU....lol

 

Living in a fantasy that he will come and 'get' you!!! hahahaha

 

Of course...I hope my prince will come someday too.

 

My mom told me she knows someone who got married at 90...so there's still hope for me!

 

Good ole' mom.

 

RN, my grandma was getting marriage proposals well into her 80's! Her response was SO funny: "I don't want another husband! I already HAD a husband! I don't want to take care of some old guy until I die!"

[lostlove76]

Well, the "crappy feelings" are going to continue as long as you pin your self-worth on whether or not he calls.

 

It's really hard for me to fathom why you still want to be one of the many women he's interacting with. It seems like you're still hoping he throws you a few breadcrumbs and that you WANT those breadcrumbs.

 

He's done everything you say you don't want and cannot tolerate in a man. Yet, you want to hold on.

 

What is it that he is giving you that you just do not want to let go of? And I mean, what is he giving you TODAY? Not 8 months ago.

 

He's giving me absolutely nothing at all at this point. Funny, I hit reply with quote and only then did I see your edit - you must have just added in the last part as I was clicking to reply. And before I saw your addition, I was going to say that I'm just still holding onto what he gave me in the past.

 

Even though I logically know that it's just words, and promises that will be broken, I still want him to tell me that he's sorry and that he's in love with me and wants to be with me forever. I still want to believe it even though I know I can't anymore. And I couldn't hear him say those things anyhow unless he left it on voicemail, because I won't answer.

 

Maybe you're right and I'm pinning my self-worth on him calling. Actually, that's probably half of it for sure. The other half is just wanting things back the way they used to be.

[lostlove76]

And thus is the downfall of many (women in particular), they pay attention to words more than action and sometimes even ignoring action completely in favour of words.

 

Let it be a valuable lesson - always take nice words with a huge grain of salt. Remember the words and use it as a way to verify if someone keep their words, but not as something to believe in.

 

I REALLY hope this lesson sticks with me for the future!! It's so easy to cave to all those words you want to hear. Also easy to make excuses for the lack of action.

[browneyedgirl36]

Thanks for acknowledging that I've come far I think you're right though that my emotional self isn't quite caught up with my logical self, so I'll probably still flip flop at times. I'm getting there though! Thanks to you guys

 

I'll phase out the dating site and Facebook as my feelings lessen. I don't think the dating site even matters much anymore. At this point, I see it as a GOOD thing if he gets on because it means he's not hung up on one person in particular yet. He hasn't been for the past couple of days and it's bothering me.

 

I'm really expecting to feel this huge letdown when he quits calling. He hasn't called since last Wed. He wouldn't have called Thurs since I answered Wed, and he wouldn't have called Fri/Sat because working overnight. So tonight would be the night to call. It feels like he's stopped though. And the reason it's going to bother me is because it will mean I'm no longer even on his mind, because he has all these other girls to talk to (or even worse, one in particular). It really helped hold me over for the three weeks he kept trying. It was on his normal calling schedule rather than just random. So I knew I was on his mind. I imagine that the next few days are going to be a new level of crappy feelings if he's stopped

 

I know the feeling of wanting to know that you're at least on his radar, and the feeling that if he stops calling, that means you weren't "good enough" or whatever....I've been there. I know all those crappy feelings. I really do. I also know the wishing he would call so you can ignore him -- to be "one up" on him, to prove how strong you are. The thing is, when you're really, truly strong, you won't care if he calls. In fact, you might even dread him calling!

 

Last summer, when I was about six months into my current relationship, my ex texted me asking me to help him with something work-related, and he wanted to take me out to dinner to "thank" me for helping him. When I saw his number on my phone, I rolled my eyes and thought, "Oh, great...here we go...." (He hadn't texted me since the previous Christmas, so it was a surprise to hear from him.) I texted back and told him that, while I'd be happy to help with the work thing, I wouldn't be available for dinner. There was a time I would have JUMPED at the chance to have dinner with him, even just as co-workers, but when that text came, I just found it kind of pathetically amusing. He went on a LOT of "dinners" with different female colleagues, salespeople, etc. -- I see now why his ex girlfriend left him three times; she could never trust him! I DID end up helping him with the work thing -- while at the office -- and never met him for dinner, of course. The thing is, by that time, the LAST place I wanted to be was at dinner with him. It felt like such a victory! Someday, you will be there too, but you have to be willing to work at it.

[lostlove76]

Agree, also remember if someone has a history of lying and cheating, you can expect them to continue lying and cheating.

 

They do say once a cheater always a cheater. I despise cheaters. And yet here I am pining after the biggest cheater of them all. I've never cheated, so I just find it incredibly hard to understand why anyone would even want to.

[browneyedgirl36]

He's giving me absolutely nothing at all at this point. Funny, I hit reply with quote and only then did I see your edit - you must have just added in the last part as I was clicking to reply. And before I saw your addition, I was going to say that I'm just still holding onto what he gave me in the past.

 

Even though I logically know that it's just words, and promises that will be broken, I still want him to tell me that he's sorry and that he's in love with me and wants to be with me forever. I still want to believe it even though I know I can't anymore. And I couldn't hear him say those things anyhow unless he left it on voicemail, because I won't answer.

 

Maybe you're right and I'm pinning my self-worth on him calling. Actually, that's probably half of it for sure. The other half is just wanting things back the way they used to be.

 

I can guarantee you'll go through a number of these types of phases. At some point, you'll go through the one where you imagine him coming back, groveling, and telling you how sorry he is and how wrong he was, just so you can turn him down and tell him to go away. When you get to that point, you'll know you're ALMOST there. When you're REALLY there, you won't think much of him at all, except maybe to think of the lessons you learned from the experience with him.

[boltnrun]

At any time since this all went down has he said he's sorry for causing you pain? Has he apologized for repeatedly misleading you by saying he's coming to get you "next week" and not following through? Has he admitted he has been unfaithful by kissing other women while supposedly in an "exclusive" relationship with you? Has he apologized for cheating, expressed remorse and promised to never do it again? Has he asked for forgiveness? Has he said he too wants things back the way they used to be, and apologized for his role in damaging the relationship?

 

Has he said he's sorry for ANYTHING? And if so, what has he DONE about it?

[lostlove76]

I know the feeling of wanting to know that you're at least on his radar, and the feeling that if he stops calling, that means you weren't "good enough" or whatever....I've been there. I know all those crappy feelings. I really do. I also know the wishing he would call so you can ignore him -- to be "one up" on him, to prove how strong you are. The thing is, when you're really, truly strong, you won't care if he calls. In fact, you might even dread him calling!

 

Last summer, when I was about six months into my current relationship, my ex texted me asking me to help him with something work-related, and he wanted to take me out to dinner to "thank" me for helping him. When I saw his number on my phone, I rolled my eyes and thought, "Oh, great...here we go...." (He hadn't texted me since the previous Christmas, so it was a surprise to hear from him.) I texted back and told him that, while I'd be happy to help with the work thing, I wouldn't be available for dinner. There was a time I would have JUMPED at the chance to have dinner with him, even just as co-workers, but when that text came, I just found it kind of pathetically amusing. He went on a LOT of "dinners" with different female colleagues, salespeople, etc. -- I see now why his ex girlfriend left him three times; she could never trust him! I DID end up helping him with the work thing -- while at the office -- and never met him for dinner, of course. The thing is, by that time, the LAST place I wanted to be was at dinner with him. It felt like such a victory! Someday, you will be there too, but you have to be willing to work at it.

 

Do you think, though, that you would have ever reached the point of just rolling your eyes at his dinner offer if you didn't have someone new (or several someone new's since you had broken up with him). Did it take dating someone else to really and truly become indifferent to him? I worry that I'll never be truly over this one until I find someone else to care about, which I can almost guarantee is going to be a looooooong time from now.

[lostlove76]

I can guarantee you'll go through a number of these types of phases. At some point, you'll go through the one where you imagine him coming back, groveling, and telling you how sorry he is and how wrong he was, just so you can turn him down and tell him to go away. When you get to that point, you'll know you're ALMOST there. When you're REALLY there, you won't think much of him at all, except maybe to think of the lessons you learned from the experience with him.

 

Ha. All day today I was imagining him calling and me being able to text him to leave me alone and actually mean it when I said it, and how good that would feel. I came up with all these different ways I could say it. So not QUITE to the point that you describe, but somewhat almost kinda sorta there

[lostlove76]

At any time since this all went down has he said he's sorry for causing you pain? Has he apologized for repeatedly misleading you by saying he's coming to get you "next week" and not following through? Has he admitted he has been unfaithful by kissing other women while supposedly in an "exclusive" relationship with you? Has he apologized for cheating, expressed remorse and promised to never do it again? Has he asked for forgiveness? Has he said he too wants things back the way they used to be, and apologized for his role in damaging the relationship?

 

Has he said he's sorry for ANYTHING? And if so, what has he DONE about it?

 

Sadly enough, up until my ultimatum, he DID say he was sorry any time I was really upset (and he sounded like he truly meant it). He really listened to me when I described what actions had caused the pain and how much it hurt, and he sounded truly remorseful, I promise he did. It wasn't just a flippant "sorry" or a way to get me to shut up. But ever since the day he told me he wasn't actually coming (after said ultimatum, and after telling me just the night before that he most definitely was), he hasn't sounded sorry at all. Definitely not about trashy what's-her-face or any other form of cheating. His entire tone just completely changed that night, and it's been like that ever since (during the 3 times I've actually answred the phone and talked to him). So why the change???? Seriously, what flipped?

[boltnrun]

What reason did he give for not coming after your ultimatum?

[browneyedgirl36]

Do you think, though, that you would have ever reached the point of just rolling your eyes at his dinner offer if you didn't have someone new (or several someone new's since you had broken up with him). Did it take dating someone else to really and truly become indifferent to him? I worry that I'll never be truly over this one until I find someone else to care about, which I can almost guarantee is going to be a looooooong time from now.

 

Yep -- I would still have declined his offer even if I hadn't been in a new relationship. I was totally over him two years prior to that (long before I met my curreent boyfriend, which was last year). In a weak moment, I had texted my ex (back in 2013) telling him I was sad that we no longer talked or had a connection and he was extremely cold to me in his response. Then, at work a couple days later (we worked together, and still do), he told me that I needed to "move on." The look on his face when he said it, the tone of his voice, everything, was SO cold, so condescending and callous, that it was like a light switch flipped in my brain. I told him off for being a patronizing hypocrite -- or started to, but we got interrupted -- then left his office, went to my car, and finished telling him off in a text, telling him his point was taken and not to worry, that he'd NEVER hear about any of my feelings EVER again. I had a good cry on the way home in the car, vented to a couple friends that night, and I was DONE. It was like I'd lost feelings for him overnight.

 

I think the truth is, I'd sent that text as sort of a fishing expedition -- even if I didn't realize that's what I was doing at the time. I think I was pretty sure how he'd respond, and I knew that once he did, I'd be able to let it go once and for all. Now, I still have to see him at work sometimes, and it doesn't faze me. He could be naked, on fire, running around the building, and I wouldn't notice. BUT...I achieved that state of mind BEFORE I found my current guy.

 

It all doesn't seem possible now, I know. You can't see the outcome -- it seems too far away, too distant to be a possibility. It's a journey, and you've already started on it. It's hard to see it when you're on the path, but one day, you'll get to the end, look back, and think, "Ah, OK, I get it now." I promise.

[notalady]

I'll answer this real quick and then backtrack to the other posts. I'm late 30's, approaching 40. I'm so paranoid about giving exact details like age because I'm afraid he'll stumble upon this thread one day. I would be mortified! Although, I've already given enough details that he would recognize himself!

 

It's ok, no specific details needed, I was just curious

[lostlove76]

What reason did he give for not coming after your ultimatum?

 

He said, and I quote, "Okay, you wanna know what it is? What are you gonna do for a job here? I don't want you working where I work. People get hired and fired here all the time, and I don't want to have to take up for you. Do you understand?" And I said I would understand if he hadn't told me he could get me a job there, and he said he made a mistake. And I said you told me 20 times you could get me a job there, and he said he made 20 mistakes. Then he got into the whole "I'm a horrible person, I'm a lust-filled jacka$$$ womanizer and you shouldn't ever talk to me again" thing. Then the next time we talked, I told him he had said that and he said he didn't, and I said yes you did. And he said "Okay, I'm gonna tell you the truth. I met this girl..." and started telling me about trashy dying girl. I asked if he had feelings and he said no, he felt sorry for her, and she's pretty and hot.

 

So I don't know what the real reason was Thoughts or opinions???

[lostlove76]

It's ok, no specific details needed, I was just curious

 

 

 

He is one year younger than me. We went to high school together but never knew of each other til we met on the dating site.

[lostlove76]

Browneyedgirl: Thanks, I do hope you're right that I'll get there too Ugh how cold and patronizing of your ex to tell you to move on. I hate him and I don't even know him! Just so mean and rude and unnecessary. After he moved, mine coldly told me (via text) that it was "simply time to move on" after I called him out on something and told him we either needed to be all in, or I needed to move on. That was his response. Then 4 days later he texted that he missed me, and I repeated what I'd said before and he didn't respond. Then it was 6 whole weeks of NC before he called saying he loved and missed me and wanted me to move there, and that started the whole 5-month LDR thing. You would think I would have been done at his cold "move on" like you were, but I was devastated and eagerly answered and took him back when he called.

 

I think this time will be different though. I won't take him back again, much less if he doesn't call for another 6 weeks.

[boltnrun]

He said, and I quote, "Okay, you wanna know what it is? What are you gonna do for a job here? I don't want you working where I work. People get hired and fired here all the time, and I don't want to have to take up for you. Do you understand?" And I said I would understand if he hadn't told me he could get me a job there, and he said he made a mistake. And I said you told me 20 times you could get me a job there, and he said he made 20 mistakes. Then he got into the whole "I'm a horrible person, I'm a lust-filled jacka$$$ womanizer and you shouldn't ever talk to me again" thing. Then the next time we talked, I told him he had said that and he said he didn't, and I said yes you did. And he said "Okay, I'm gonna tell you the truth. I met this girl..." and started telling me about trashy dying girl. I asked if he had feelings and he said no, he felt sorry for her, and she's pretty and hot.

 

So I don't know what the real reason was Thoughts or opinions???

 

Well, unfortunately he doesn't want you there. Why is kind of irrelevant. He just prefers to have a relationship with you over the phone only and not in person. It apparently fulfills whatever he wants from you, while leaving him free to do what-all-ever he does over there.

 

Remember that when you wish to have him back...what you'd get back is THIS version of him, not the him he was 8 months ago. That "him" seems to be gone. Because if HE wanted the relationship you two had in the past, he'd find a way instead of coming up with BS excuses why he "can't" or why it wouldn't work.

[lostlove76]

Well, unfortunately he doesn't want you there. Why is kind of irrelevant. He just prefers to have a relationship with you over the phone only and not in person. It apparently fulfills whatever he wants from you, while leaving him free to do what-all-ever he does over there.

 

Remember that when you wish to have him back...what you'd get back is THIS version of him, not the him he was 8 months ago. That "him" seems to be gone. Because if HE wanted the relationship you two had in the past, he'd find a way instead of coming up with BS excuses why he "can't" or why it wouldn't work.

 

I know you're right He's a completely different person now in so many ways. Here, he was an introverted homebody who never went out, just like me. There, he has a hundred friends and goes out every single night. Completely different person.

 

Still no call. Still wishing he would. I somehow know in my gut that he's given it up and is moving on. I don't know how I know, or what changed, but I just know. He called consistently (for him) for three weeks and now he's just suddenly done. I don't know why. Just got tired of trying, or knows I hate him because of the last phone call, or has enough other girls to talk to now. Something shifted, don't know what.

[boltnrun]

He'll call.

 

He's not done getting whatever it is he wants from you, and he's not going to want to give it up.

 

My ex to this day still tries to get whatever it is he wants from me, and he dumped me 7 years ago! He tried to get me to see him the last time I was in his area. First he tried ranting (not directly to me, but I could hear him), then he texted the person I was with (someone we both know and who is a good friend of mine) asking her to have me call him, then he sent a pity-party text that said I probably didn't want to talk to him anyway. He tried three different approaches in the space of only a few minutes! LOL He still tries to "get" me because he needs to believe he's the master stud who still "has it". He just cannot stand that I don't want him anymore, and he tries desperately to get me to love him even though he doesn't actually love or want me. He's stupid...

 

So, it's up to you to decide if you're willing to accept the tiny scraps he throws your way (when he's not too busy kissing other women or trolling the dating site), or if what little he has to give you just isn't good enough anymore.

[Realitynut]

I somehow know in my gut that he's given it up and is moving on.

 

 

HA! Don't bet on it. You went 6 weeks before NC....2 weeks is NOTHING. And him still calling you is NOT NC! If he doesn't call you tonite...I bet he will within the week.

 

But I DO know about how different they sound. The ex in Wisconsin...the fiancé' dude....when he called me when I was 4 hours away (back home, working) and asked me to stay away another day! (what???!!!) I hung up the phone, and I told someone....'he sounded completely different'.

 

I remember, he usually called me baby....lol...I know....but that time he called me by my name. Huh?

 

Now Tom...everytime he calls...I call it his 'friendly voice'...or his cold voice. hahahaha I can always tell what frame of mind he is in. I never answered him today. I'm not sure what I am doing where he is concerned. I KNOW what I should do....but my heart isn't in it either. And my guy has been waaaay meaner...as in saying hurtful things....

 

Men!