The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[reinventmyself]

 

So from your timeline, it seems like I will feel even worse a couple weeks from now. I guess I best expect it if it's gonna happen, huh? Because I get what you mean about it being devastating when the hope is gone, and that is sure to happen at some point.

 

Yes! Like an addiction the cravings get worse before they get better.

If you anticipate it and are prepared then you will be better at riding it out.

[reinventmyself]

So I don't get it!!!!! How can he feel so bad for so many people, and yet not feel bad for pain that he himself causes?? Any ideas? It makes little sense to me. Maybe it's just a defense mechanism that keeps him from getting too close

 

Read the title of your thread back to yourself and you've answered your own question.

You came here wanting to vent about being involved with a commitmentphobe but wrestle with why he won't commit?

The very title you have given him you yourself don't accept.

There is a definite disconnect going on.

 

Again . .`people do what works for them. . or they wouldn't do it' This works for him.

You tend to make things much more complicated then they really are.

This isn't forensic science here.

 

He moved away, drinks, doesn't come to see you, doesn't make any changes in order to, signs onto online dating and meets other women.

It's an understatement to say these are all distancing maneuvers.

 

He intentionally creates drama, intensity and conflict to keep a safe distance from you. It works for him.

[Realitynut]

And WHY exactly AGAIN do you want him back?

 

I want to see you put the reasons WHY he is such a good catch, and the REASONS WHY you two would be perfect together.

 

Then I want to see the reasons why you SHOULD run as fast as you can from this guy!

 

Put it here. Make a column if you wants. Reasons to go. Reasons to stay

 

Oh yeah...I forgot that I asked that.

[lostlove76]

So the guy texted and I'm going Friday to work instead of today. Yay. I'm glad.

 

Why don't you give us a list of his good qualities that are genuinely hard to come by all in one person. This doesn't include how sweet he used to be and how he says I love you and how he used to be affectionate and open up to you, for one, those are the bare minimums that anyone and everyone in a relationship can do, it's nothing special and you can find that with just about anyone, and second, it's not the real him since he isn't consistently doing them and in fact was only doing it when he was drunk. Exclude your "emotional connection" too, we can all have emotional connections with multiple people, not with anyone and everyone but it's certainly not rare. Besides that not a quality of his so it doesn't count.

 

I'm talking about character and values and personality traits that makes you think, this man is really decent / good! I really respect / admire that! I'd love to keep dating this guy.

 

I'll give you some examples, I can see my boyfriend is honest and loyal, I can see that in the way he treats not just me but his friends, family and work; he's respectful to me and to everyone in his life, he would never speak/behave disrespectfully of or to anyone (even people he dislike); he's kind, gentle and thoughtful, he would never do anything that hurts me or anyone, even unintentionally, even as a joke/for fun. The list goes on. Point is I can see him doing these things consistently across all aspects of his life over a long period of time (almost a year) so I'm reasonably sure this is how he is. These are qualities I respect and admire. Even then, I wouldn't say he's unique, I would say I can probably find a good guy like him again if we broke up (touch wood!) but it would ACTUALLY be hard to find and will take a long time.

 

Now you tell me a list of good qualities you find on this guy that makes you think you can never find it on someone else again.

 

At the end of the day, striping away any emotional attachment, we all want to date a man that we can respect / admire. At least for me, once I've lost respect for a guy, I can't love him anymore. I might still feel attached in the short term but in the long term, there can be no love. I hardly think you can still respect your guy after all that he's demonstrated of who he is.

 

Okay, I think I can do this. It's the emotional connection stuff and the sweetness and all that that will just make me miss him terribly to list, so I'll do like you say and focus more on the basics of who he is as a person. I can't name anything that would be hard to find in others in this regard, since there are so many people on earth, but I'll just list his good qualities. I know you guys don't think he has any, but he really does!

 

He has an extremely soft heart. He really deeply cares about people who are in need or having a hard time, whether it be financially, mentally, emotionally, or physically. An example of this is something he told me a couple months ago. There's a guy where he lives who is mentally challenged and hangs around one of the bars he goes to. The bar was having some keno game or something, and he sat with this guy the whole time, patiently explaining to him over and over again why he couldn't pick the numbers that were already on the board. He feels sorry for people. He's always saying it "breaks his heart" or "hurts his feelings" when he sees others having a hard time. He paid rent for a friend of his last year a couple of times because the guy couldn't afford it. He told a neighbor of his whose wife just died to let him know if he needs anything at all. He really cares about people.

 

He also cares about animals, even bugs. I've seen him gently move a bug off the carport so that it doesn't get stepped on. He feels like all lives are equal, from bugs to humans. He gets mad when people unnecessarily kill or hurt an animal.

 

He doesn't judge people for how they look or what they have or where they come from. He's very accepting of the uniqueness in us all. He never looks down on people for bad choices that they've made in life. He sees rich people and poor people as equal. What matters to him is their mind and their heart. He's always made me feel perfectly accepted despite all my faults and flaws. I never felt insecure around him or "lesser than" for not having a full-time job, living with my parents, etc etc.

 

He's extremely forgiving. He's never once held any of the horrible things I've said to him against me. When I've apologized, he's always told me that I don't need to apologize for anything, that it's okay.

 

He's gentle and kind. He never says an unkind word to anyone, and rarely about anyone. He got snippy with a coworker one day because he was in a bad mood and didn't feel good, and he said it bothered him so much after she left that he almost looked up her number to call and apologize. He still felt bad hours later when he was telling me about it.

 

He's very respectful of people's boundaries (not talking about his relationship with me right now). He would never show up at someone's house uninvited or intrude in any way. He wouldn't even go inside with me when I took him with me to feed some dogs while some people were out of town.

 

He's extremely smart, unique, creative, talented. He's hard-working. He's good at everything he does. He's independent and knows how to make it on his own. He never asks anyone for help. He makes his own way. He's very funny. He's laid-back, doesn't let things get to him or bring him down. He's generally happy, all the time. Everyone loves him. He comes from a good family. He's respectful of his parents. He's very appreciative of anything anyone ever does for him, even the smallest of things, and always gives a very genuine "thank you." He shares what he has, when he has it to give.

 

Writing this made me cry. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, but that's most of it. He's a really GOOD person with a GOOD heart. His only downfall is how he behaves in relationships.

[lostlove76]

Sorry but I don't buy it. It's easy to talk the talk when it comes to empathy but how one demonstrates it in behaviour is ultimately the real thing. It's easy to say "I feel so bad for them" and even shed tears, but what did he do for his friend if he's so broken hearted about his situation and clearly so close to him that he'd cry over it??? What did he do for the homeless people that the law DOES allow? I hardly believe that all that he can do to help the homeless requires him breaking the law.

 

And most important of all, he's NOT empathetic when it comes to you, he's cruel, he's hurtful. This is not the behaviour of someone who is TRULY KIND and EMPATHETIC!!! I've met guys who genuinely are, and they'd never pull this kind of BS on someone they claim to love or have feelings for, or even someone they DON'T have feelings for.

 

As for "narcissism", again, I would refrain from trying to label him if I were you. Just yet another excuse you're making for his bad behaviour, like oh well he really doesn't want to behave so badly, it's his "condition" that makes him do these!!! Come on, really?? You believe that?!

 

Unless he's been diagnosed by a psychiatrist of any of these conditions you think he has, assume he doesn't have them.

 

EDIT to add, I know plenty of people who will lend their friends a helping hand when they are in need, I know plenty that volunteer to help disadvantaged children and homeless people, as well as donate things and money. No tears or drama or declarations of who they feel bad for these people required, if one wants to help people, they just go ahead and do it.

 

Also, was he drunk when he told you these things? I'm assuming so since he wouldn't talk to you when he's sober. If so, that explains the highly emotional reaction (tears and all). So other than having a cry and talk about things emotionally when he's being drunk (as many people do), what did he actually do for these people that makes you think he's empathetic?

 

I find it hard to believe anything that anyone says when drunk, unless they verify it in action when sober.

 

I just wrote my last post before reading this. Sorry, reading one at a time and then replying. It's not a put-on, his care for other people. The homeless thing, he was just talking about one specific thing he wanted to do and looked into and found out that it wasn't allowed. As I said before about his friend, he paid this guy's rent for him on more than one occasion. He had already paid the rent by the time he was telling me about it, and he started crying when he talked about what a hard time this guy was having. He wasn't being dramatic or putting on. That was one of only three times I've ever seen him cry. The first time, he wasn't really crying, but he got tears in his eyes when he was talking about how a mentally challenged guy who was working with them left town, and he was also talking about his cat who had disappeared. He looked embarrassed and like he was trying not to cry and pretending that it didn't really matter all that much, that it's just the way off life, but he had tears in his eyes.

 

I promise you, he is deeply empathetic towards others. But for some reason, his empathy ends in relationships when it pertains to he himself causing the pain. I think it all comes down to his fear of getting too close to people, his fear of engulfment, all that, but I don't really want to get into all that again right now.

[lostlove76]

So I don't get it!!!!! How can he feel so bad for so many people, and yet not feel bad for pain that he himself causes?? Any ideas? It makes little sense to me. Maybe it's just a defense mechanism that keeps him from getting too close

 

Read the title of your thread back to yourself and you've answered your own question.

You came here wanting to vent about being involved with a commitmentphobe but wrestle with why he won't commit?

The very title you have given him you yourself don't accept.

There is a definite disconnect going on.

 

Again . .`people do what works for them. . or they wouldn't do it' This works for him.

You tend to make things much more complicated then they really are.

This isn't forensic science here.

 

He moved away, drinks, doesn't come to see you, doesn't make any changes in order to, signs onto online dating and meets other women.

It's an understatement to say these are all distancing maneuvers.

 

He intentionally creates drama, intensity and conflict to keep a safe distance from you. It works for him.

 

I hope it's not annoying that I keep quoting every post and replying to everything.

 

Yes, distancing techniques, that's why he does these things. That's exactly it. Sometimes I kind of forget what I already knew. Okay, so it works for him to keep a safe distance. Will there ever come a time in his life when he values closeness more then independence? I don't think he understands that someone can have both. I'm not trying to smother him by any means, or run his life. I just need the basics - live in the same place, don't meet other women, don't withdraw for days. Seems simple enough. He enjoys the closeness for periods of time, but then it's like he panics, and that's when he withdraws and acts up and does bad things. I don't see what's so scary about closeness, especially with someone like me, who doesn't judge him for his drinking or what he does for work or any of these other things that he feels bad about himself for. I love him for who he is, minus his bad behaviors.

[lostlove76]

And WHY exactly AGAIN do you want him back?

 

I want to see you put the reasons WHY he is such a good catch, and the REASONS WHY you two would be perfect together.

 

Then I want to see the reasons why you SHOULD run as fast as you can from this guy!

 

Put it here. Make a column if you wants. Reasons to go. Reasons to stay

 

Oh yeah...I forgot that I asked that.

 

See my earlier list for good qualities. As for why we would be perfect together... I'll be quick on this one, because like I said, I don't want to start missing him terribly again. Later tonight I'll probably need something to do, so I'll make the list of reasons to stay and reasons to go.

 

Why we are perfect together: We value the same things in life. We both "judge" people based on their minds and hearts, not where they come from or how much money they have. Neither of us care about having a lot of money or nice things, just enough to survive. We both have simple tastes. We come from similar backgrounds. We both don't want kids!! We have the same sense of humor, we make each other laugh. We can easily talk for hours and hours without ever once having a silent pause or running out of things to talk about. If we do run out of new things to say, we'll just say things we've already said before, and that's perfectly fine with both of us. We just like talking and listening to each other. We accept each other and value the good things. The physical attraction is there. Our love languages are the same -- words of affirmation (hugely needed and appreciated by both of us), quality time, and physical affection (which we had plenty of when he lived here). We're patient with each other, and make each other feel good. When we're together or talking, the rest of the world disappears -- it's full-on attention to each other, and no one else is needed, no outside activity is needed, and nothing distracts from it.

 

See, this just makes me want him back

 

I'll do the list of reasons to stay vs. reasons to GO in a little while. Maybe that'll help get me back on track with what I need to be feeling right now.

[boltnrun]

Can you do a list of what he gives you NOW (as opposed to what he gave you 8 months ago)?

[notalady]

So the guy texted and I'm going Friday to work instead of today. Yay. I'm glad.

 

 

 

Okay, I think I can do this. It's the emotional connection stuff and the sweetness and all that that will just make me miss him terribly to list, so I'll do like you say and focus more on the basics of who he is as a person. I can't name anything that would be hard to find in others in this regard, since there are so many people on earth, but I'll just list his good qualities. I know you guys don't think he has any, but he really does!

 

He has an extremely soft heart. He really deeply cares about people who are in need or having a hard time, whether it be financially, mentally, emotionally, or physically. An example of this is something he told me a couple months ago. There's a guy where he lives who is mentally challenged and hangs around one of the bars he goes to. The bar was having some keno game or something, and he sat with this guy the whole time, patiently explaining to him over and over again why he couldn't pick the numbers that were already on the board. He feels sorry for people. He's always saying it "breaks his heart" or "hurts his feelings" when he sees others having a hard time. He paid rent for a friend of his last year a couple of times because the guy couldn't afford it. He told a neighbor of his whose wife just died to let him know if he needs anything at all. He really cares about people.

 

He also cares about animals, even bugs. I've seen him gently move a bug off the carport so that it doesn't get stepped on. He feels like all lives are equal, from bugs to humans. He gets mad when people unnecessarily kill or hurt an animal.

 

He doesn't judge people for how they look or what they have or where they come from. He's very accepting of the uniqueness in us all. He never looks down on people for bad choices that they've made in life. He sees rich people and poor people as equal. What matters to him is their mind and their heart. He's always made me feel perfectly accepted despite all my faults and flaws. I never felt insecure around him or "lesser than" for not having a full-time job, living with my parents, etc etc.

 

He's extremely forgiving. He's never once held any of the horrible things I've said to him against me. When I've apologized, he's always told me that I don't need to apologize for anything, that it's okay.

 

He's gentle and kind. He never says an unkind word to anyone, and rarely about anyone. He got snippy with a coworker one day because he was in a bad mood and didn't feel good, and he said it bothered him so much after she left that he almost looked up her number to call and apologize. He still felt bad hours later when he was telling me about it.

 

He's very respectful of people's boundaries (not talking about his relationship with me right now). He would never show up at someone's house uninvited or intrude in any way. He wouldn't even go inside with me when I took him with me to feed some dogs while some people were out of town.

 

He's extremely smart, unique, creative, talented. He's hard-working. He's good at everything he does. He's independent and knows how to make it on his own. He never asks anyone for help. He makes his own way. He's very funny. He's laid-back, doesn't let things get to him or bring him down. He's generally happy, all the time. Everyone loves him. He comes from a good family. He's respectful of his parents. He's very appreciative of anything anyone ever does for him, even the smallest of things, and always gives a very genuine "thank you." He shares what he has, when he has it to give.

 

Writing this made me cry. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, but that's most of it. He's a really GOOD person with a GOOD heart. His only downfall is how he behaves in relationships.

 

You can't say someone is "respectful of boundaries", "gentle and kind" and all these wonderful qualities, when it only applies to some people and not others, in particular, it doesn't apply to you. Not only does it not apply to you, he behaves contrary to that, he's horrible to you. So if he's this wonderful human to other people, how are you getting any of these benefits? How is he kind and gentle and respectful and caring emotionally TO YOU? Answer is he isn't. What's true for a random person off the street or his family or friends or a cat or a dog or a BUG, are not true for you. So what are you actually getting out of it? Why does any of these good qualities matter when it doesn't apply to you?

 

I also don't see it as him being "forgiving" by accepting whatever horrible things you said to him by the way. He was horrible to you first, he knows if he wants to keep you around, he needs to let you vent first but all said and done, you'll come back. That's all it is.

 

I'm not saying he's not a good person, but he's not a good person to you. And that's all that matters.

 

I know some people who are good friends and good family members and good members of society but are terrible partners and put them through pain. If someone is good at being a friend, then keep them as a friend. If someone is terrible at being a partner, then don't keep them as a partner. Simple as that. Much like you wouldn't start a business with a friend who is bad at business and money, regardless of how good they are at being a friend.

 

After all that, time to make a list of his bad qualities. I noticed you haven't made one despite some of the posters saying you should.

[lostlove76]

Can you do a list of what he gives you NOW (as opposed to what he gave you 8 months ago)?

 

Good idea. I hope y'all don't start charging me for this You would all make excellent therapists.

 

I'll just write exactly what I was getting out of it (before I cut him off) even if some of these can be debated as being unhealthy or whatever (false hopes and such). These are the things that kept me hanging on.

 

Memories and shared history to talk about and feel good about

All the love talk made me feel SO good. To be told that he loved me and was in love with me 50 times per conversation... I can't even describe how good it felt to hear those words. And I know y'all don't believe it, but I felt the sincerity in it. He was very specific about what I meant to him and why he felt the way he did. It made me feel special given that he just doesn't get this close to people very often.

It made me feel really good to make him feel good about himself. I loved that I could do that for him. He needed a lot of it because of his self-worth issues, and I never tired of telling him why I love him and all the good things about him. I guess it brought out the nurturing side of me or something.

He made me feel good about myself, as well. He made me feel smart and pretty and funny, and accepted and valued for exactly who I am.

He brought out other qualities in me as well that I don't normally possess (like the nurturing side, I'm not always like that): people generally get on my nerves and I am VERY impatient, can't stand to just sit and listen to someone talk. But with him I had extreme patience. I never minded hearing the same story for the tenth time, or asking him three times to repeat something because he was slurring and I couldn't understand. I had infinite patience with him, and that is something I don't have with ANYONE else.

Someone to talk to about anything from deep emotions to the most mundane insignificant things. We always listened with interest to each other, always made each other laugh, always cared what the other had to say.

Excitement every time I saw his name light up on my phone. Waiting for the call that I was pretty sure would come, and when it did, it just made me feel happy. Then I got to feel happy for the next 5 hours as we talked until one of us had to fall asleep.

(False) hope that I would be with him again soon. The hope was still there and I looked forward to it. Sad, I know, but the hope felt good.

The special emotional bond that neither of us shared with anyone else.

 

I feel like crying again, but it's okay. I was already missing him.

[lostlove76]

You can't say someone is "respectful of boundaries", "gentle and kind" and all these wonderful qualities, when it only applies to some people and not others, in particular, it doesn't apply to you. Not only does it not apply to you, he behaves contrary to that, he's horrible to you. So if he's this wonderful human to other people, how are you getting any of these benefits? How is he kind and gentle and respectful and caring emotionally TO YOU? Answer is he isn't. What's true for a random person off the street or his family or friends or a cat or a dog or a BUG, are not true for you. So what are you actually getting out of it? Why does any of these good qualities matter when it doesn't apply to you?

 

I also don't see it as him being "forgiving" by accepting whatever horrible things you said to him by the way. He was horrible to you first, he knows if he wants to keep you around, he needs to let you vent first but all said and done, you'll come back. That's all it is.

 

I'm not saying he's not a good person, but he's not a good person to you. And that's all that matters.

 

I know some people who are good friends and good family members and good members of society but are terrible partners and put them through pain. If someone is good at being a friend, then keep them as a friend. If someone is terrible at being a partner, then don't keep them as a partner. Simple as that. Much like you wouldn't start a business with a friend who is bad at business and money, regardless of how good they are at being a friend.

 

After all that, time to make a list of his bad qualities. I noticed you haven't made one despite some of the posters saying you should.

 

Im going to make one. I was saving it for later because I know I'll be awake all night and missing him, so I thought it might be something good for me to do in order to redirect my thoughts. And I really want to put thorough thought into it to make myself really believe that walking away was the right decision. I promise I'll do it, in a few hours, when everyone else is asleep and I'm sitting on the deck by myself with no distractions, like I love to do each night.

 

I see your point about him being good to others and not me. Thing is, when he wasn't withdrawn, he WAS that way to me. Very kind and thoughtful, always. When he was available. It was when he was withdrawn and completely off-limits and we weren't talking that I didn't get any of the good. Which is still horrible!! To turn it on and off like that. The withdrawals were so extremely hurtful. I don't think I've ever felt anything more painful than to be told how much I'm loved one day and then pushed away the next. It was confusing and hurtful, and I've never experienced such a thing to such a degree. Someone who is ALL in one day and then ALL out the next. His ex said that about him too - that he would be really sweet one night and then do a complete 180 the next day. I'm glad I know of his past, because otherwise it would be hard convince myself that it's not something that's wrong with ME that he does this. But I know he's done it in all his relationships.

[notalady]

 

I see your point about him being good to others and not me. Thing is, when he wasn't withdrawn, he WAS that way to me. Very kind and thoughtful, always. When he was available. It was when he was withdrawn and completely off-limits and we weren't talking that I didn't get any of the good. Which is still horrible!! To turn it on and off like that. The withdrawals were so extremely hurtful. I don't think I've ever felt anything more painful than to be told how much I'm loved one day and then pushed away the next. It was confusing and hurtful, and I've never experienced such a thing to such a degree. Someone who is ALL in one day and then ALL out the next. His ex said that about him too - that he would be really sweet one night and then do a complete 180 the next day. I'm glad I know of his past, because otherwise it would be hard convince myself that it's not something that's wrong with ME that he does this. But I know he's done it in all his relationships.

 

You can't seem to get your head around the fact that when someone doesn't behave in a certain way CONSISTENTLY, then it's not real. Consistency is one of the keys to all relationships, of any kind. So it doesn't matter what he WAS at certain times in the past if he can't keep that up in the here and now and going forward.

[Realitynut]

yep....my guy was the most Dr. Jeykl and Mr. Hyde guy you ever met. Consistency was NOT in his vocabulary.....geez...I could send you another link on that!

[Realitynut]

 

 

oh....and I have tons more.

[lostlove76]

You can't seem to get your head around the fact that when someone doesn't behave in a certain way CONSISTENTLY, then it's not real. Consistency is one of the keys to all relationships, of any kind. So it doesn't matter what he WAS at certain times in the past if he can't keep that up in the here and now and going forward.

 

yep....my guy was the most Dr. Jeykl and Mr. Hyde guy you ever met. Consistency was NOT in his vocabulary.....geez...I could send you another link on that!

 

 

oh....and I have tons more.

 

Yep, this nails it: "One of the reasons hot-cold relationships are so difficult to let go of is because they provide what’s called intermittent reinforcement."

 

This -- "That doesn’t mean, necessarily, that you leave the relationship, but you need to become very conscious of the dynamic of the relationship, and the part you play in it." -- is what I tried doing for a long long time. I thought if I could just understand it, maybe it would be fixable. I've probably read as much as you have, realitynut (though I'm totally open to anything you want to pass my way, thanks!), and so I understand it on some level. I've always thought that understanding = fixing, but it just didn't work out that way. So then I tried to just accept and cope with it, but that didn't work either, obviously.

 

This appears to be the hardest type of relationship to get out of, and the most destructive to remain in.

 

"If you are smart enough, strong enough, have adequate self worth, and are not in too deep, you might listen to those [alarm] bells, end the relationship, delete [his] number, and escape gasping to lick your wounds, and get on with life." I think I'm smart enough, but apparently lacking in self worth, and I was already in way too deep to get out by the time the first cold spell arrived.

 

It amazes and disturbs me that there are so many men out there like this. I'm sure there are some women as well, but I don't care about the women lol. The men are what concern me. I don't know why this is such a prevalent thing.

[reinventmyself]

You can't seem to get your head around the fact that when someone doesn't behave in a certain way CONSISTENTLY, then it's not real. Consistency is one of the keys to all relationships, of any kind. So it doesn't matter what he WAS at certain times in the past if he can't keep that up in the here and now and going forward.

Thank you! I was about to say the same thing.

 

Relationships are built on the foundation of trust. And trust is constant (consistent ) and not a moving target.

 

Without that creates. Anxiety!

 

Yah, those guys who were just outside of my reach I wanted even more and tolerated more, until I learned better.

 

Chasing after something I couldn't have had more to do with me and my issues then it did about them being my 'soul mate'

[Realitynut]

My guy told me he couldn't live with the constant 'drama' I caused....always crying. He told me that Sunday....but he saw no reason to believe that he had anything to do with it! When I realized that I was going to have to 'end' it (again) I cried harder...and he told me (again) that I was scary. Because I asked him to hug me.

 

So why in the world did I text him (tons) today...and call?

 

Because...basically I'm as dysfunctional as he is...but the opposite direction.

 

On a spectrum of extremes, he's as far to one side as commitment phobe can be.....and I'm as far on the other side as an emotional 'clinger'....abandonment and rejection issues. So when one is emotionally unavailable, and the other is TOO emotionally available....reeks havoc. And that is putting it mildly.

 

Unfortunately, I own my issues. He doesn't.

[lostlove76]

Well at least you do own them! Might as well, right? It helps to be aware, and doesn't do any good to pretend they don't exist.

 

I used to be clingy with texting and calling, and I never thought I'd be able to control it, but I finally overcame it. That's ONE positive thing I've gained from this relationship, if nothing else. I will never again be the main initiator. You feel a certain strength and power in saying and doing absolutely nothing. If you wait long enough, they will come to you. Especially if they know you're not going to be the one to reach out.

 

It's easier than it seems, I swear. There were times with this guy when I was texting all day long, so upset because he wouldn't just answer me already. This was a long time ago, before I learned to control it. And with every text I sent, I just felt worse and worse. So then I'd send ANOTHER text, trying to fix whatever problem I felt the last one had caused. It was a never-ending cycle.

 

Finally I just white-knuckled it and wouldn't allow myself to text. It was hard at first, but eventually it became super-easy. Now it's very very rare that I'll text first.

 

That doesn't mean that I never feel clingy, but I d*mn sure aint gonna give him the satisfaction of showing it.

 

If I can do it, you can do it!!

[lostlove76]

Anybody awake? I just sat down with a glass of wine to make my list of reasons to stay away from him. Might take a few. What I really wish is that he would try calling again tonight. I feel like he's going to stop at any time, and then the option of talking to him will be gone. At least with him calling, the option is there. Since he only called once last night instead of three times, I feel like he's giving up. Can't really blame him. But I of course wanted him to try harder, not less. He wouldn't know that though. Any reasonable person would think that someone who's ignoring them would just want to be left alone. Nobody wants to feel like they're harassing someone. I'm sure he thinks I hate him and will never talk to him again. Which is the goal, right - to never talk to him again. So on to the list...

[Realitynut]

Oh....I'm awake. It's what I do when I'm upset. Sit here...wasting time. Kicking myself. Wondering how and why did this happen again. How last week we were out eating, and happy. And this week...he hates my guts.

[Realitynut]

Yep. That's the goal. When Tom use to call me...it was much easier to 'ignore'...because I was punishing him, for being so bad. He has almost always answered my calls....and today he didn't. Well...he did this morning, until I p*ssed him off by saying, "i guess I miss you more than you miss me!" Boy....was that a trigger for him. He got defensive and said, Yep, you're always right! And it went downhill....

 

So of course, knowing he was mad, I wanted to 'make up' and he wouldn't answer...so then I texted that I was sorry that I upset him...yada, yada

 

So where is HE saying he is sorry for telling me "you're NUTS" and swearing at me, and telling me to get my f'ing hands off of him. (He had his back to me on his bed, and I tried to roll him over so he would talk to me) I said, "roll over and talk to me"....and that's when he said to get my hands off him and I can't tell him what to do, and he's no dog to be told to ROLL OVER.

 

But did I get an apology for that? And that was just the beginning of the fight.

 

So......there is the list of MY things that are bad about MY guy.

Married 3 times

Left home at 16 because he didn't like his parents telling him what to do.

Left school the day he turned 16 because he didn't like school telling him what to do. (he then went to an alternative school)

 

So you can see he doesn't like to be told what to do....or talk about emotions or feelings.

 

I also see I like to start sentences with....So.

[Realitynut]

Also....(a variation of So) I got the ebook The Unavailable man and the Fallback girl. I was reading it last night, but I can't skip/skim thru pages like you can a book...much less underline, hightlight...or turn the corners over.

So I bought it again in book form today.

 

I wanted to quote some passages from it....to you. It was about crying tears....and treating others so much better...than you. That you sit back in awe, that this person can be so kind and giving to others...but not to YOU.

 

It's because it's YOU that he doesn't want to get attached to. Or make a commitment too. Those other people don't mean anything to him. He can do a random act of kindness...and move on.

 

The thing I miss about my ex...is when we're 'on'...we text continually. You look forward to his Nightime calls. I looked forward to his morning texts....Of Goodmorning Buttercup. Or cupcake...or Kayak Queen. Something to put a smile on my face. I would always wait for him to text me first. (lol)

 

But really, I think waiting for one to text first...or not...is playing games.

 

When we were best friends...albeit flirty....we would both text each other continually, and call. We would hardly go 2 hours without hearing from each other. If I thought of something I wanted to tell him...no matter how mundane...I would just text it to him.

 

I never made him angry.

 

And now...everything I say, makes him mad. Or annoyed.

 

Basically, in a nutshell. It's not love.

 

He was addicted to me. He's attracted to me. We had a bond. He told me many times that I 'got him'.

 

So see? I understand where you are coming from. Except your guy has a mild, kindhearted personality, so when he wanted to escape...he LEFT. He didn't want to FIGHT with you. Oh...that made me think. Ya know...the old fight or flight reflex.

 

Yes....they talked about it in this book. When I read about it, I was only relating to the 'fight' part, because of my guy. He would fight to gain distance.

 

Your guy chose flight. geeze. Classic. He had to FLEE you to get away from you. He doesn't want to lose you completely, so he keeps you attached by the few phonecalls (bread crumbs) he throws your way. But he got what he wanted.....distance.

 

Aaargh.

 

I should read me book. Tom posted ONE thing on fb tonight. I wonder if I can bring it over here. I'm sure it was aimed at me.....ugh.

[Realitynut]

 

 

 

For some reason...I think that was meant for me. And while I was on ena....he posted another one....lol

 

eh...I guess he wasn't 'sharing' it...but liking it.

He's always one to say...I wanna do, what I wanna do, when I wanna do it.

 

He saw me every day last week, even tho I thought i'd have a few days of NOT seeing him...he asked me over, or said he'd come see me. I guess I should have said,,,not tonite.

 

 

[lostlove76]

Hey Realitynut. Glad you're awake I made my list in the notes section of my phone and I'm about to paste it here, and then I'll read your recent posts. It may be ridiculously long, won't know until I paste it, but I wanted to be thorough. If I left anything out, anybody is free to add to it! As it is, I think any sane person would go running in the opposite direction from him.

[lostlove76]

REASONS TO STAY AWAY:

 

Moved and left me after 6 months of amazing wonderful closeness and telling me to go with him when he goes. Left, said "it's simply time to move on" when I told him that either we needed to plan for me to move there or I needed to move on. Found some new girlfriend for a month or two.

 

So now we live 4 hours apart. Don't get to look at him, sit with him, hold him, touch him, fall asleep together, hang out together. Neither of us can drive for visits, him because he's always drunk or working and me because of anxiety. He's not going to move back here and never did let it happen for me to move there. So it would forever be phone-only unless some miracle happened.

 

IF he ever brought me down there, there would be a whole set of problems: He would probably feel resentful that I was in his space. Tiny place. Crowded town, and I don't like crowds. He has tons of friends, and I would know nobody. Getting a job would be impossible, since he doesn't want me working with him even though he said 30 times that he would get me a job. So money would be an issue. I would have anxiety in general, being away from my comfort zone and support system (parents). And added anxiety if I had reason to feel jealous, or if he was being cold and withdrawn and making me feel unwanted. Wouldn't have my own car. Couldn't just leave if I got mad and upset with him. He probably wouldn't be patient and supportive as it would take me a long time to find my way and fit in there; he would just feel burdened. I would have zero say or leverage, because it's his place and his town.

 

Everything is on his terms about when we talk. He won't answer if I call or text, so just have to wait for him. Sometimes he calls consistently and sometimes he doesn't. Never sober. Never spontaneous - it always follows some type of pattern and he'll only call during those times.

 

No daily contact, which I NEED to feel secure. Then I feel like I'm too needy and something is wrong with me that I want or need simple things that others get in relationships. So I end up compromising what I really need to feel wanted and loved and secure.

 

Every time we get super-close, he panics and does something to mess things up - dating site or doesn't call for days. If he's still panicking about closeness after two years then he will probably never be okay with it. He admits that it scares him.

 

Commitment issues, which he admits to having. Everything I've read says that this isn't easily overcome.

 

Calls himself a loner, says it's easier to live life alone. Extremely independent, needs his space and freedom. He doesn't really want to share his life with a partner, no matter what he might say to the contrary ("I want to be with you for the rest of my life!"). He doesn't want to be responsible for anyone else or accountable for anything. He does things alone and makes decisions alone, it's all about him and what he wants.

 

Dating site and other girls. Won't stay off the freaking dating site long-term, lord knows what all he does on there. Flirts with girls on Facebook, and in person I'm sure. Doesn't seem to want or value monogamy at all. Says "why does it matter?" Has cheated on everyone he's ever been with. Changes the rules - last phone call, he claimed "How could it be cheating? We're not together" after telling me for 5 months that yes we're exclusive and together!! Made the exact same claim to his ex whom he lived with.

 

Just cannot trust him, whether he's doing anything bad or not, because he's proven in the past that he can't be trusted. And I have my own trust issues even without all that!

 

Trashy Girl: he obviously connected with her in some way, who knows to what extent. Then felt like it was okay to tell me about it. Don't know when it happened, but I had no clue until he told me. Shows his character that he doesn't care she's married. He added her on Facebook, so now there will always be the threat of him hooking up with her, whether she visits or moves there.

 

All words and no action. Says big huge meaningful things that make me feel so loved and important, promises things that get me excited about a future with him, and then does nothing at all about it. Asks me to marry him and yet apparently doesn't even want me to live there. Way too confusing and frustrating and hurtful.

 

Apparently has no empathy for my feelings, or else he would try to compromise and make me feel better (calling more, etc) and wouldn't do things that he KNOWS hurts me.

 

Alcoholic - I don't care so much, except it does make him forget things we've talked about, and he's able to use it as an excuse for bad behaviors.

 

High and low emotions: I feel so happy and wonderful when things are good, and then completely depressed when he pulls away (or even if I only suspect that he's going to). Feel anxious and worried all the time, always paranoid that he's cheating, always worried that he's going to do a pull-back and I won't hear from him for days. I can't handle the rollercoaster. It causes stress and sleepless nights. I can't enjoy anything in life because I'm always hyperfocused on him and the relationship.

 

Missing him HURTS. It hurts when things are good because I don't actually get to see him, and it hurts even worse when things are "off" and I don't get to even talk to him.

 

I'm forever confused, and it takes an enormous amount of energy trying to figure it all out and find a potential solution. I can't for the life of me understand how someone could claim you're their soulmate, and that you're perfect for them, and that they're in love with you, and that they want to be with you forever, and then they throw up every roadblock possible to keep it from happening. It drives me insane and makes me constantly question the truth of anything.

 

Living in a constant state of limbo. Always waiting for him to call, always waiting to see if we're good or if he's withdrawn, always waiting to see if he'll actually come and get me. Now waiting to see if he'll realize what he's lost and step it up and fix things. Always waiting waiting waiting.

 

I've given him two years of chances and discussions and arguments and asking nicely for him to please just do certain basic things, and it's all been in vain, because nothing has changed. I've tried everything I could possibly try, and nothing has gotten us any closer to the type of relationship I would like to have with him. Improvements have been made, but it's always one step forward two steps back. It shouldn't be this difficult, and we should be much farther along than this after two years.

 

If I take him back with no big action on his part, he'll know that he can get away with whatever he wants and my ultimatums will mean nothing. I'll have no leverage. Yes he'll have to suffer through a couple of weeks of me not answering the phone, but that's nothing if I do indeed take him back (which I don't plan on, without big action).