The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[lostlove76]

He's definitely going to say he loves you. And that he's coming to get you next week. And he'll propose marriage. He'll say everything you want to hear. And if that's all it takes to get you back, you'll be back within 5 hours (after you're done fussing at him).

 

Somehow I don't think he will say those things. I think if he still felt them, he would have texted it or left it on voicemail, don't you think? I don't think he feels it anymore -- it's been a long time since we've talked. He's good at turning off the feelings (avoidant) and then turning them back on. If talking to him for a long time is what it would take for him to feel it again, then no thanks.

 

But...after he's said all his usual pretty words and you're all aflutter, what happens next? When next week comes and you're still sitting there alone, or he misses a "scheduled" call night and you check his dating site activity and/or his Facebook and see that he's been on the site or commented on or added a new woman...then what?

 

If all it takes is words with no action to make you go running back, what was the point of all of this?

 

Words won't get me this time. I mean that!! I would need action. I guess I just wanted to hear him say it (that he loves me) for my own benefit, so that I would know and it would make me feel better. But I don't even think he would say it. So I dunno if there would be any point in answering, because if he didn't say it, I might feel worse. If he DID say it, I would just absorb but not say it back, and remind him why I can't continue on as things were. And then get off the phone.

 

BUT, I'm still not sure I would answer. I'm kind of being convinced not to. I'll try to play out different scenarios in my head of what he could say and what I might say and see if it's even worth it, or if it would make me feel worse.

 

I'm really trying to gear myself up that he is going to stop trying, though, because I don't want to feel disappointed when that happens. I will say that I would probably feel 100 times worse right now and this past two weeks if he hadn't tried all those times. It really really helped to know that he at least missed me and cared enough to try. I'm a lot better off than if he hadn't tried at all, or if I had blocked and hadn't known. That may not work for anyone else, but it's what works for me.

 

So if he stops -- I'm just telling myself that at least he did try for two weeks, and he didn't get anywhere at all with it, so of course he will eventually stop trying knowing that I won't answer. No one wants to be rejected over and over again, and it's a waste of time to keep calling someone who isn't going to answer. He'll move on with trashy girl and 20+ random flings from the dating site, and I'll move on slowly over time as hopefully my feelings eventually fade. We don't live in the same place, so there's absolutely nothing that can come of this if he's not willing to make a move.

[lostlove76]

Realitynut, I just now read that last link you posted for me. Sorry, I get distracted sometimes and forget. But now was the perfect time to read it, since I was considering answering his next call. This is one of the best things I've read about NC and breadcrumbs. Thank you for sharing!! I'm copy/pasting some of it here (to anyone else reading this, see link for full text):

 

/

 

What are breadcrumbs? Basically any contact from the dumper that does not communicate the clear intent of reconciliation. And YES, this includes: “I miss you" etc. Nowhere in these texts do they convey the need to start again or work on the relationship.

 

During your period of no contact with the ex, this is the time when they are experiencing the consequences of their decision and can truly feel the magnitude of your absence. There could be a multitude of reasons why they have decided to reach out (loneliness, perhaps a recent rejection from a girl they were pursuing, maybe even rocky times with someone they’re currently dating or in a relationship with, or the lack of sex etc.) and hearing from you is a way to boost their ego (make them feel desired), assuage their guilt for hurting you, or reassurance that they can go back on their decision (as they’re now starting to feel traces of doubt) and that you’re still a good back-up option.

 

The best way to respond to the breadcrumbs (if at all, you can definitely choose to ignore them in favor of your healing) is to be polite and short, and re-state your need for no contact. This shows your ex that you are moving on and that reconciling with you (if that is their wish) will take more work than just words with no follow through. You are coming from a place of self-love and high value where you are demonstrating to your ex that you are living a life free of the need for their validation.

 

If your ex truly wants reconciliation they will not stop at one text and they will make themselves clear.

 

You ask yourself, but what if they think I hate them or that I’m being rude? Common concerns when you do want to get back together with your ex. Keep in mind that nowhere in your responses are you rude. You’re simply refusing to engage further conversation. Because unless they want reconciliation, you are prolonging your healing by keeping contact with your ex and they get to feel better/less guilty and more secure in their decision to break up with you because hey, the dumpee is still a good plan b if this whole being single thing doesn’t work out. And if you chose not to respond? How is that being rude? They are your ex and they broke up with you. They cannot expect you to respond as you would when you two were together. Your healing comes first.

 

The difference between true attempts at reconciliation versus breadcrumbs is typically that the dumper’s contact will increase over time even after you send a polite and short response or ignore them completely. Contact will keep coming.

 

At some point, the dumper will ask ‘to talk’ or ‘meet up’ if they haven’t already stated in their messages that they miss you and have realized they made a mistake and would like to try again. If they ask to meet up or talk without the expressed regret of breaking up with you, you are more than free to ask them “Why would you like to talk?” or “Why would you like to meet up?” that way you can determine whether or not seeing your ex again is beneficial to you.

 

missing someone is not the same as wanting them back. Your ex can’t simply choose the parts of the relationship they want to keep (friendship, sex) and the parts they don’t (commitment, monogamy, etc). If they make a decision to break up with you, they chose to lose ALL OF YOU.

 

it’s one thing to think about never seeing or talking to your girlfriend or boyfriend again, quite another when the reality is actually unfolding and they're forced to come to grips with the decision they made because you the dumpee are keeping solid with no contact.

 

You are making it easy for them to move on from you by remaining in contact “as friends” or “exes with benefits” while they pursue others, and harder for you to move on, heal and mend your heart, and be open one day to someone who actually wants to be with you. By choosing to remain in contact and settle for being in limbo, you are reaffirming your ex’s belief that they can find someone better because if you can’t walk away out of self-love and out of recognition of your own value, then you must not be someone worth having. It’s basic human psychology. This is not games, this is about you taking the time and space for yourself to move on from someone who has hurt you and who saw no future with you.

 

In short, always put yourself and your healing first and be the guard of your own heart. Do not entrust it to someone who has broken it before with so little to go on.

[Realitynut]

Thanks....I've been doing this for 2 years. Done a lot of research. I have to be strong also. But I've been saying this forever too.

 

I know what I SHOULD do....but damn my heart still hurts. But it hurts for the 'guy' he use to be...not the guy who said horrible, mean things to me.

 

I texted him that tonite. He had called today. I didn't answer. Strong for one brief second, but was afraid of what he'd say.

 

So then I texted back later...You called?

 

He never called back...or returned my text.

So yeah...I really wonder what he wanted to say....but then again...it probably would have gone nowhere...or hurt me again.

 

So why bother....

[lostlove76]

Thanks....I've been doing this for 2 years. Done a lot of research. I have to be strong also. But I've been saying this forever too.

 

I know what I SHOULD do....but damn my heart still hurts. But it hurts for the 'guy' he use to be...not the guy who said horrible, mean things to me.

 

I texted him that tonite. He had called today. I didn't answer. Strong for one brief second, but was afraid of what he'd say.

 

So then I texted back later...You called?

 

He never called back...or returned my text.

So yeah...I really wonder what he wanted to say....but then again...it probably would have gone nowhere...or hurt me again.

 

So why bother....

 

He could be playing "games" -- you didn't answer his call, so he didn't answer your text. Passive-aggressive, t i t for tat. That's why I will never reach out to mine. I imagine that if I did try to call or text him (which I won't!), he would use it as "power" and not reply and not call for a long while after. Stupid, but people are prone to do it! I'm sure your ex gets mild pleasure knowing that you're wondering why he didn't reply to your text.

 

ETA: haha, it blanked out the word "t i t" in my "t i t for tat" so I had to add spaces

[Realitynut]

geez....lol...who would think t i t would be a bad word!

[Silverbirch]

That's a really good article. I have taken the bait so many times with those crappy texts and messages, and also when I have replied, there has been no response. It's pathetic. I was actually thinking how he respects a female who was only with him for a few months and told him to get lost than he respects his ex-wife who was with him for 12 years and I was with him 5 years. They don't respect us for hanging about either. That's very hurtful I know, but it's true.

[Silverbirch]

PS my very short responses will no longer be questions - such as how are you? Because Ai know he will choose to ignore it. It's his power game. So pathetic.

[lostlove76]

Well he just tried to call. Right on his every-other-day schedule. I really didn't think he would - I thought surely he would give up now.

 

I chose not to answer. I guess if he wants to change (slim chance, but IF), then he can text it to me or leave it on voicemail, right? He's done something to that effect before, so surely he could figure out that that's what he needs to do since I won't answer the phone. I want to hear "I love you, I'm sorry I messed everything up, and I want to fix it." If he said that then I could ask how he plans to fix it, and see if what he says is sufficient (that he'll take the necessary actions) and then tell him I can't talk to him til that happens. That's just a hypothetical, what I would like to hear!

 

So IF he wanted that, he could figure out how to text or voicemail me those words, right? Even if he thinks I hate him and want him to quit calling? Just want to feel 100000% that I'm not messing up any future chances by ignoring him.

[lostlove76]

Silverbirch, I was writing mine before I saw yours, sorry.

 

Yep, they respect those who don't have a history of allowing him to take advantage! But I wonder if when a long-termer stops allowing that, if he then gains respect?

 

I agree don't ask questions or give him any opportunity whatsoever to pull a power play. You always end the texting/convo first and make it seem as if you don't care to hear back.

[Silverbirch]

Men who are worth having dont struggle to say "I'm sorry". Same as wome, anyone . . . If you do something wrong, you say I'm sorry. It's easy - unless you have REAL problems.

[Silverbirch]

Well it probably is different for different people but as far as I know, my ex changed nothing about himself to get his wife back. He knows he behaved badly. Before I got together with him, he told me he learnt from that. Not sure what he learnt, but it certainly wasn't reflected in my "relationship" with him which actually turned out not to be a relationship.

 

Listen, there really are people out there who are capable of relationships. Sounds so banal but deep inside I either have believed there aren't or at least none of them would ever want me. Seeing my family has been good for me - I've been surrounded by people who love and care about me.

 

Silverbirch, I was writing mine before I saw yours, sorry.

 

Yep, they respect those who don't have a history of allowing him to take advantage! But I wonder if when a long-termer stops allowing that, if he then gains respect?

 

I agree don't ask questions or give him any opportunity whatsoever to pull a power play. You always end the texting/convo first and make it seem as if you don't care to hear back.

[lostlove76]

Men who are worth having dont struggle to say "I'm sorry". Same as wome, anyone . . . If you do something wrong, you say I'm sorry. It's easy - unless you have REAL problems.

 

He has no problem saying sorry. He always does. It's just a matter of whether he would know to text it or leave a voicemail since I refuse to answer the phone. I think if I was trying and trying to call someone after I had done something wrong and they wouldn't answer, I would text what I wanted to say! But maybe that's just me. He's not a big texter. Two words aren't difficult though -- "I'm sorry"

[lostlove76]

Well it probably is different for different people but as far as I know, my ex changed nothing about himself to get his wife back. He knows he behaved badly. Before I got together with him, he told me he learnt from that. Not sure what he learnt, but it certainly wasn't reflected in my "relationship" with him which actually turned out not to be a relationship.

 

Listen, there really are people out there who are capable of relationships. Sounds so banal but deep inside I either have believed there aren't or at least none of them would ever want me. Seeing my family has been good for me - I've been surrounded by people who love and care about me.

 

I guess I believe like you do/did. They they aren't out there, or that they won't want me. OR that I won't want them.

 

I'm glad it did you good to be with family. Family is great for making you feel a part of something and loved unconditionally (if they're good family).

[Realitynut]

Oh lostlove....he could promise you the moon....but it ain't happening. Tom came and was at my door one night....saying that he realized what an a$$hole he'd been...and the things he said. He said at the time, he thought they were 'justified'. He then when on to tell me he couldn't look into his future, without seeing me in it. blah, blah.

 

Well, that lasted ONE month.

 

Your guy had almost 8 months to step up to the plate...but didn't.

 

And WHY exactly AGAIN do you want him back?

 

I want to see you put the reasons WHY he is such a good catch, and the REASONS WHY you two would be perfect together.

 

Then I want to see the reasons why you SHOULD run as fast as you can from this guy!

 

Put it here. Make a column if you wants. Reasons to go. Reasons to stay.

 

I would like to see them. Because other than the ADDICTION you have for him, for what had BEEN...I see NO REASON what so ever to be with this guy. He's charming. He's good looking! Big DEAL. Does that make husband/bf material?

 

You should LEAVE him in the dust and NOT HOPE that he comes back because....well...he's a drunken, lying, cheater.

 

Why in the hell would you pine over that?

[Realitynut]

We all know that one person who always says "sorry". Just as habit...oh sorry. Sorry, Sorry,

 

Doesn't mean a damn thing.

 

Sorry.....but it doesn't. Sorry.

[Silverbirch]

Well SOME people can genuinely be sorry for something they may have done - at times we all have done something to hurt another. I cringe when I think of stuff I did as a teenager and how that would have hurt my mother. Some people can only be sorry when they have suffered the consequences of their own actions but are not bothered by the hurt they cause others - or as you say - some people can say sorry essily, but not mean it, or not change their actions which hurt others.

[notalady]

Well he just tried to call. Right on his every-other-day schedule. I really didn't think he would - I thought surely he would give up now.

 

I chose not to answer. I guess if he wants to change (slim chance, but IF), then he can text it to me or leave it on voicemail, right? He's done something to that effect before, so surely he could figure out that that's what he needs to do since I won't answer the phone. I want to hear "I love you, I'm sorry I messed everything up, and I want to fix it." If he said that then I could ask how he plans to fix it, and see if what he says is sufficient (that he'll take the necessary actions) and then tell him I can't talk to him til that happens. That's just a hypothetical, what I would like to hear!

 

So IF he wanted that, he could figure out how to text or voicemail me those words, right? Even if he thinks I hate him and want him to quit calling? Just want to feel 100000% that I'm not messing up any future chances by ignoring him.

 

At the end of the day, you're still open to being persuaded (with words) to take him back. Hasn't he made plenty of promises in the past and never acted on them? So why does it suddenly become believable if he promises this and that?

 

Apology is worth nothing when they are not backed up with action, and in the past they haven't. So I don't see any reason to trust yet another apology and/or promise coming from him (if it does come).

[reinventmyself]

At the end of the day, you're still open to being persuaded (with words) to take him back. Hasn't he made plenty of promises in the past and never acted on them? So why does it suddenly become believable if he promises this and that?

 

Apology is worth nothing when they are not backed up with action, and in the past they haven't. So I don't see any reason to trust yet another apology and/or promise coming from him (if it does come).

And this basically boils down to 'trust'. He has proven himself untrustworthy.

So why would the words, text or vm from a man who has lost your trust matter? It shouldn't It has no value but your own self worth seems to hang on this.

 

I shake my head as you rationalize in complete detail whether or not he realizes he has the choice to leave a message or text but wrestle with why he cant or wont? He chooses not to. There is nothing complicated about it.

[boltnrun]

If he wanted to do something to fix it, he would. Period.

 

And no "But what if he doesn't know HOW??? What if he isn't because I'm ignoring him???? What if it's ALL MY FAULT???"

 

Nope. He CHOSE to move hours and hours away. He CHOSE not to come get you. This didn't happen in the past 2 weeks and some odd days. It's been that way for EIGHT months.

 

If he really loved you and missed you, he could come see you. But he CHOOSES not to. (And nope, don't try to assign yourself blame for that either. If he told you "I'm coming to see you tomorrow", would you have told him "no, thanks"? Doubt it.)

 

AND, he chooses to go on dating sites, kiss and see other women, and tell you lies.

 

You have made him do none of this.

 

All that's left is for you to decide is how long you want to keep sitting in your room with your phone in front of you and the computer on with the dating site on one tab and Facebook on the other (and ENA as well, can't forget that!), pining and wishing for him to make some grand gesture so you can take him back (and obsessing over "what is he thinking???"). I'm willing to bet HE isn't sitting in his apartment pining. So why should you?

[LAYAAN]

Dear OP,

I just hope that you keep taking steps (no matter how small) towards your freedom from this man and most importantly how you feel about him in your heart.

I really dont know what your relationship goals are. I hope at least you know what those are.

Like someone here mentioned "You are not maintaining NC if you are regularly checking his FB." I agree with them. You need time and distance to heal from this entire episode. You need to be indifferent and you will get to that state. But to eventually reach there, you have to keep taking steps forward and not backward. You are achieving nothing by checking his FB and evaluating what kind of women he is meeting and why he didn't provide you the same that he is giving them. You will not know his exact reason. May be he is being impulsive, may be he is intrigued that he can't fully control that woman, may be he lost interest in you because the thrill of chase was gone and you had become predictable, or something else. Do you really want to know the reason?

There is a saying in my culture - (and the loose translation is -) "Once you get off the horse, who gets on him next is none of your business."

This is the reason why I blocked every man I ever met (that I can remember) in marriage process. Those men and I are not together for whatever reason. I don't want to know whether they are single, married, miserable, or something else. I don't care to know who they are with because it doesn't matter to me. It doesn't change the fact that they didn't choose me. I don't want to continue to torture myself by inspecting their lives and their choices and wonder why they didn't choose me.

I really hope that you tap into the strength in your heart. It is there. You have support here on ENA. Keep moving forward!

Stop checking his FB. May be change your phone number. Even if he comes back, an alcoholic that he is, he won't offer you a stable relationship (unless you want to be unstable and thrive on drama). Forgive yourself for making this mistake. Vow to yourself that you won't repeat this mistake ever again.

[lostlove76]

Oh lostlove....he could promise you the moon....but it ain't happening. Tom came and was at my door one night....saying that he realized what an a$$hole he'd been...and the things he said. He said at the time, he thought they were 'justified'. He then when on to tell me he couldn't look into his future, without seeing me in it. blah, blah.

 

Well, that lasted ONE month.

 

Your guy had almost 8 months to step up to the plate...but didn't.

 

And WHY exactly AGAIN do you want him back?

 

I want to see you put the reasons WHY he is such a good catch, and the REASONS WHY you two would be perfect together.

 

Then I want to see the reasons why you SHOULD run as fast as you can from this guy!

 

Put it here. Make a column if you wants. Reasons to go. Reasons to stay.

 

I would like to see them. Because other than the ADDICTION you have for him, for what had BEEN...I see NO REASON what so ever to be with this guy. He's charming. He's good looking! Big DEAL. Does that make husband/bf material?

 

You should LEAVE him in the dust and NOT HOPE that he comes back because....well...he's a drunken, lying, cheater.

 

Why in the hell would you pine over that?

 

I would love to make a list of good/bad and hear your feedback on it, BUT I'm afraid that it will just make me miss him terribly and set me back. I've really been trying to block out all the good things and not think about them. Because it just softens my heart and makes me miss him a lot and makes me want to talk to him. There really IS a LOT of good, which is why I'm finding it so hard to move on. Maybe later or if at some point I'm just feeling at my wit's end, I'll make the list and see what you think. But I'll hold off for now....

[lostlove76]

Well SOME people can genuinely be sorry for something they may have done - at times we all have done something to hurt another. I cringe when I think of stuff I did as a teenager and how that would have hurt my mother. Some people can only be sorry when they have suffered the consequences of their own actions but are not bothered by the hurt they cause others - or as you say - some people can say sorry essily, but not mean it, or not change their actions which hurt others.

 

Oh my gosh, I cringe as well at all the horrible things I said and did to my family when I was growing up. I was truly awful. I always felt bad about it right after, but I kept saying hurtful things. I was a mess.

 

I think he truly does feel sorry for some of the things he does, and some things he just doesn't care. I can hear the sincerity when he apologizes, most of the time. So at least there's that. He's said that he's a horrible person and he hates himself sometimes. He's always calling himself a horrible person. I know he has a conscience. But I also think he's able to block some of it out by staying drunk all the time and convincing himself that he doesn't give an eff. As for changing, well, no matter how sorry he is, he doesn't ever change. I told him that a time or two - that sorry doesn't cut it anymore if he's going to keep doing the same things.

[lostlove76]

At the end of the day, you're still open to being persuaded (with words) to take him back. Hasn't he made plenty of promises in the past and never acted on them? So why does it suddenly become believable if he promises this and that?

 

Apology is worth nothing when they are not backed up with action, and in the past they haven't. So I don't see any reason to trust yet another apology and/or promise coming from him (if it does come).

 

You're right. I guess I just wanted to at least hear "I'm sorry" for this latest round of misery that he caused.

 

At this point, the only action he could take would be face-to-face... right? Driving up here. I couldn't believe anything unless he did that, right?

[annie24]

You're right. I guess I just wanted to at least hear "I'm sorry" for this latest round of misery that he caused.

 

At this point, the only action he could take would be face-to-face... right? Driving up here. I couldn't believe anything unless he did that, right?

 

You already issued your ultimatum and he already didn't meet it. I think it's best to move on and not hope that he does anything dramatic.

[boltnrun]

You already issued your ultimatum and he already didn't meet it. I think it's best to move on and not hope that he does anything dramatic.

 

Yep, you already told him "come get me Wednesday or it's over". He said no.

 

So...that leaves you with two choices. Keep pining and hoping that he somehow didn't really mean that "no" and he'll magically show up, or start the hard work of building a life of your own that isn't dependent on whether or not he calls.