The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[lostlove76]

Well, since you're 100% sure he loves you, respects you and considers your connection meaningful and that it's his pride that's stopping him showing up to your door (what if you've met someone else????), go ahead and call him yourself.

 

In your case, nothing anyone tells you can make a difference...I'm sure of that now. So, continue as you were and wait for him to change. Who knows? Since he loves you so much, he might change for you.

 

Well since I love him so much, why don't I just show up at HIS door? He's told me to plenty of times. "Just show up," he said.

 

It's all too complicated. No one can read anyone else's mind. I honestly don't know how any couple survives if either of them has even the slightest issue or two. We're all messed up. We're all jaded. We're all guarded. It's just the way of the world. Don't mean to sound all down about it, but seriously.

[notalady]

You say clearly he didn't love you, but to me it seems like clearly he did. If he was just "eh" about you, why would he try so hard and go to so much trouble? I think it's unfortunate that we take the stance of "if he loved me he would ____ (insert what we or others think someone SHOULD do to show love). We're all complicated and just trying to navigate through life full of our own issues. Doesn't mean it's right or okay, the way we act. But sometimes we don't know any better. Seems to me like he loved you, for what it's worth.

 

I meant he didn't respect my decision as I repeatedly requested. He said if respecting my decision means losing me then he can't. That statement sufficiently scared me (someone with strong boundaries and self-worth) off, but I can see how someone with weaker boundaries view that as "he must love me SOOOO much". I see it as him being selfish, he wants what he wants and insist on getting it regardless what I want, in the relationship he often didn't take no for an answer and behaved manipulatively to get what he wants. I need equality and respect from a man, I don't need to be pursued or convinced into dating someone.

 

I don't know if he loved me, since I'm not him, I don't know what feelings he experienced, what I do know is his actions didn't show he loved or respected me (in fact I don't think he understands what respect means), he didn't treat me well when we were together, blowing hot and cold, being non-committal and only come chasing after me and begging for another chance while "baring his soul" when I say I don't think this is working and want to break up. We broke up 5 times in the final 2 months (only dated for 6 months in total) because of me wanting to walk away because my whole value and logic system is screaming at me "this is just not right! Get out!" It was hard because he came back right after (like within hours) promising to try harder and give seemingly good explanations of what his issues are. It was unlike me to say I want to break up and not follow through, in previous relationships, I never say break up unless I had thought things through, and the guys are always respectful of my decision (and usually, the relationship had run its course anyway so it's more or less mutual).

 

Of course I eventually was able to take a step back and say this is just ridiculous, healthy relationships don't work like this, this is toxic. I was never in a toxic relationship before and this caught me off guard. Anyway me holding firm on my decision caused him to finally realise he really lost me this time and hence all the extreme measures to try and get me back (he sent flowers to my work too, ugh, I hate for people at work to question why I'm getting flowers, just bleh! This is not a freaking rom-com.)

 

You know what I think (and actually said to him) when he does these seemingly "grand gestures"? If you loved me, you would've treated me well when you HAD the chance (5 chances actually), you didn't, that's all you get. He admitted to and apologised for acting like a d***head, and my response was, how about not be one in the first place? Anyway it was too little too late. Empty promises and flowers can't erase what he had shown me in action.

 

I'm glad I ended it when I did. I met my current boyfriend online within weeks after breaking up with him and he's perfect (for me), we've been together for almost a year now and I think he's the one for me. Maybe we would've missed each other if I continued dating my ex, maybe he would've met someone else, who knows.

 

Like I said before, you're not going to meet a good guy that's right for you when you're wasting your time on someone toxic and isn't right for you.

 

Edit to add: love is not about how hard someone pursues you. They can pursue you out of selfishness, loneliness, fear, want you around out of comfort and habit. People are complicated and the reason they want someone or something can also be complicated, it's often not love. I don't try to figure out what drives them to do what they do and what their intentions are (I'm sure a lot of people have good intentions and end up doing bad things), all I'm concerned about is their actions, if the way they treat me during a relationship doesn't work for me, we're incompatible and it needs to end, I don't care what explanations or excuses they have.

 

Also to me (and I'm sure many would agree), love is respectful, it is consistent, it is calm, it's like being at home. You don't feel up one minute and down the other, you don't feel like you could lose this person anytime, you don't get swept up in drama, you don't feel like you're on a roller coaster ride. That is not love.

[boltnrun]

I said this before but I'm going to repeat it.

 

You TOLD him what you needed from him and he CHOSE not to do what you asked of him.

 

So your theory that by ignoring his calls you aren't giving him a chance to prove his love or make it right doesn't make sense. He had his chance and he CHOSE not to. And you ignoring him is not making him go on the dating site. He goes on the site because he wants to.

[lostlove76]

Thanks for you story notalady. I can definitely see what you mean, and I can see the difference in how you view things vs how I view things due to our difference in boundaries. I'm glad you found your current boyfriend

 

Bolt, you're right, I did tell him what I needed. I guess I just have it in my head that sometimes someone gets so comfortable taking someone for granted that they won't straighten up til they lose the person. Doesn't that happen a lot? I know it does, because I've seen threads written by guys who say they treated their exes badly and lost them, and now they're regretting it and pining away months or a year later.

 

I'm just really really missing him. Like reinventmyself said, the process isn't linear. I've been feeling decently okay a good bit of the time, but then I have these dips where I just MISS him so much. I spent more time talking to him than I've talked to anyone in years, and more time hanging out with him before he moved than I've been with anyone in years. I don't like hanging out with people or talking on the phone at all, I really don't. So the fact that I was so comfortable and happy in his presence or on the phone with him meant a lot. And I miss it. And no matter what anyone says, it was the same for him. He was closer to me than he'd been with anyone in years. He said I was his best friend. And he was mine.

 

Just feeling lonely, last night and this morning, and no one else can fill the void.

 

I think I've mentioned this before, but I used to do what he's doing, spent tons of time on dating sites after we ended. I talked to a bunch of different guys, trying to see if anyone could even come close to making me feel any interest or excitement. And no one did. There was one guy who I thought I liked, but after a couple of weeks talking to him I started getting annoyed by several things - he was too immature, he was too needy with the texting. I compared everyone to current ex. No one was as smart or funny or interesting. It makes me cringe to think of it. But having spent all that time on there searching, I just feel like that's what he's doing now (looking to fill the void) because it's only when we're over that he spends tons of time on there.

 

I have to keep reminding myself that even if these other problems didn't exist, he simply doesn't live here and anymore, and I don't want a relationship where I only see the person once a year or so. That in itself was good enough reason to end it and try to get over him.

[reinventmyself]

Sounds like you had a tough evening. It's typical to feel like you might lose your resolve while you are in the process of detaching.

 

I just wanted to add a couple things.

In those weak moments you start feeling as if he is now looking for someone else because you won't talk to him. As if you caused it.

But the truth is he's been looking prior to you not talking. He's admitted it, he's referred to himself as a womanizer and has new women friends. The online dating website confirms it, yet it's only a small electronic indication and you don't know what he's doing while out at the bars you speak of, as well of going off the grid for days.

You aren't causing him to look for women. He has been all along. You stopped talking to him because of it.. Stay very clear on that.

 

As far as him having an epiphany and changing. I am only going by what you describe but a long standing alcoholic, only child with indulgent parents, entitled,

selfish, poor impulse control, seems lacking in the process of delayed gratification isn't going to change. IF . . and a big if someone like this changed, it would come from him.

It would start from his personal desire to change his life and not because of you. It would take years of reconditioning, support and therapy. Deep physiological issues and personality traits don't really change. Not to the degree you are needing. This is who he is. Think of it as an imprint or a fingerprint. Imprints don't change You don't have enough years in your lifetime to hold his hand. Besides, he's not interested in changing. So there you go.

 

Again with apology. After my comment you came back to defend how `sincere' he sounds again. I get it.

But you need to realize that he feels discomfort when he thinks he is losing something. It may not have anything to do with you directly.

It is a purely selfish act to want his toy back just to relieve his own discomfort while having no regard for the toys feelings. And you have taught him what he needs to say to get it. You have stated over and over what you need and trust me, you requests to be treated with respect are minimal , if that. He can't give that to you but doesn't want to lose his toy. This isn't love, this is self serving.

 

The boyfriend I referred to that showed up and said all the right things and promising change? I told him it was all well and good but it would have mattered in the moment. Not after the fact. He was able to 'parrot' and repeat what I wanted to hear. Learn to sense the difference between someone parroting words and being sincere. One big fat indication of being sincere is there is obvious action to support it!

 

Just remember when someone pursues in the way he is and the way Notalady describes, don't confuse that as a measure of their love for you. It's very likely a measure of their own turmoil.

I had a highschool boyfriend who become a stalker. When I was young and didn't know any better. I thought his over the top actions were a measure of how much he loved me. It wasn't. It was a indication of how messed up he was. It had nothing to do with me. After a few years he went on to stalk someone else.

[lostlove76]

I did have a tough night! Today is not much better so far. I woke up to this dream about going to some show with him and a mutual guy friend, and soon as we got there, they split and I couldn't find them and I was all by myself. Just a dream obviously, but I could really feel the abandonment.

 

You're right that he was looking before I ended it. I really think he wanted to be free to have random flings down there while still having all the love and connection and conversation with me. I really think that he doesn't feel this is wrong. Often when I brought up the dating site, he would say "why does it matter? It doesn't mean anything. Who gives an eff." When he lived with his ex, he would go off and have days-long flings with others and then go back home to her. For three years he did that. This is what I mean by entitled. He just doesn't care and doesn't see it as a problem. But now that I've dropped him and he's looking harder, spending way more time on the dating site, he must be trying to fill the "main" roll or something. And distract himself from feeling the loss. It makes me feel, though, like maybe he didn't have the list of options I thought he might have, or else why would he be on there so constantly? Why not just turn to one of the others? Fact is, it's all speculation, and I really have no clue what all he does down there, like you said.

 

I do see what you're saying about him changing. It's still just hard for me to understand why someone can't just decide to be a better person, and then be that. I'm still hoping that he'll feel the loss of what we had and realize that it's more important than flings with random girls. Quality over quantity. All he would have to do is give up the womanizing, call more, and fix it so that we live in the same place. Seems easy enough to me! But I guess I'm simplifying things.

 

I hear you on the rest of what you wrote, too. Thank you. An apology after the fact would mean something to me though if he really thought about it and understood what he did wrong and vowed to change (and then actually did change). Don't you think that some people only change after experiencing a loss? I just really feel that. People take people for granted all the time, and then when they lose the person (breakup, someone dies, friendship ends, whatever), they regret it. He probably didn't really feel like he would lose me, because I always gave in within a week. He pushed and pushed on the boundaries and figured he could get away with it, because he always has.

 

And just to be clear, when I talk about him feeling the loss, I'm not trying to indicate that I myself am so special and irreplaceable or anything. I know he felt I was special, because he always told me what he loved about me. But I'm speaking more of the connection that we had. Like I've tried to explain, neither he nor I get very close to others easily or often. We could totally be ourselves with each other, say whatever we wanted to say without being judged, felt comfortable with each other, appreciated each other. Others may form those kinds of connections more easily than we do, but we just don't. He can easily form shallow connections with just about anyone, but he doesn't show his whole self like he did with me. So, it mattered.

 

Sigh. Still missing him, as you can see. I guess these moments will come and go. I feel like crying. Maybe it was hearing his voice on my voicemail. (Still not going to block him).

 

Thanks for listening. Just needed to type it all out I guess.

[boltnrun]

I know I told you about my ex who pursued me for FIVE YEARS.

 

If that was all I told you, that he begged me back, that he said he hadn't realized what he had and that he now knew he love me and that I was the one for him, if I told you he said he would keep hoping I would change my mind and give him a chance to prove how much he loved me...you'd think he was sincere. You'd probably think it was a beautiful story of a man who just couldn't give up the hope of being reunited with the woman he loved so much and couldn't forget that he allowed himself to be rejected again and again, only to keep trying for all those years.

 

But the truth was, he kept trying because he couldn't handle rejection. It had nothing to do with "love".

 

I agree with Reinventmyself...this man doesn't want to "lose" you, but that doesn't mean he's ready, willing and able to step up and be the man you need him to be. He wants things exactly the way they were...not a bit more. And you've already concluded that's not enough for you (and rightly so).

 

Yeah, you're going to "miss" him. It's OK. Just accept that it will happen, but don't just wallow in it. Do things that make you happy and eventually you'll realize you miss him less and less until you just don't anymore. And don't feel sad about the prospect of no longer missing him. It has to happen for you to move on and have the life you'd like to have.

[lostlove76]

yes, all these stories you guys are telling about your exes pursuing does sound like love to me. I understand the distinction you're making when you say that it's not. But would someone really pursue for FIVE YEARS if there were no feelings involved? I totally see what you're saying, but I guess I just see it differently. I hate rejection myself, makes me feel just awful. I've been known to pursue in the past based on that, but not for very long if I didn't really care for the person. Pursuing so hard for so long would indeed indicate that they have issues and inner turmoil, but that doesn't mean that they didn't love. I'm not trying to be difficult. I just see it a little differently.

 

Good point that he wanted things the way they were, because he's selfish and wants what he wants and doesn't really care about anyone else's feelings. I guess this is how he knows he's narcissistic (I'm still shocked he ever admitted that). And you're right that it wasn't enough for me. I tried for so long to accept it as being enough, or urge him to give just a little more, but it was never enough. It's really not "normal" in a relationship, the things he did.

 

It does make me feel sad to think of one day no longer missing him. I'm not sure why that is. But you're right, it's going to be necessary in order to live my own life.

 

Thanks guys.

[notalady]

You have a very narrow definition of love then, LostLove. Having feelings doesn't equal to love. I'm sure these guys have feelings for the object of their pursuit, otherwise why bother? But that is not love. Love is showing in action that they treat you as a partner, an equal, they respect you and don't try to muck you around. They don't do things that they know will hurt you, they will have your best interest at heart. They know they have a good thing and they wouldn't do anything to risk losing you. When you love and care about someone, it hurts you to see them feel hurt, you don't take a "who cares" attitude when they tell you your behaviour is hurting them (as your ex did/is doing). Love is not meant to hurt. If it does, you're not doing it right.

 

We (posters here) had a very different approach to our ex's and a very different view as you, aside from boundaries, is because we understand one simple thing, whether these guys have feelings for us DOESN'T MATTER! They treated us like crap, we don't accept crap treatment, therefore we leave. It's that simple. If that's the way they express their "love", we don't want it. That's what you fail to see.

[lostlove76]

You have a very narrow definition of love then, LostLove. Having feelings doesn't equal to love. I'm sure these guys have feelings for the object of their pursuit, otherwise why bother? But that is not love. Love is showing in action that they treat you as a partner, an equal, they respect you and don't try to muck you around. They don't do things that they know will hurt you, they will have your best interest at heart. They know they have a good thing and they wouldn't do anything to risk losing you. When you love and care about someone, it hurts you to see them feel hurt, you don't take a "who cares" attitude when they tell you your behaviour is hurting them (as your ex did/is doing). Love is not meant to hurt. If it does, you're not doing it right.

 

Yes, that is how HEALTHY love works, from a HEALTHY individual. However, not everyone is healthy and well-adjusted. In fact, most people aren't. People bring all kinds of baggage and emotional issues and past hurts and personality disorders and guardedness and fears into relationships, and this all affects how they treat someone. It doesn't mean it isn't LOVE. Take myself... There are times when I've acted extremely UNloving towards him and others - saying mean things, getting angry, shutting them out, refusing to talk to them, pretending not to care - and no one can tell me that I don't love him or my family members or whoever else I've exhibited these behaviors towards. Love is not black or white. People love to the extent of their emotional capabilities, and that shows itself in many different ways - some good and some bad.

 

We (posters here) had a very different approach to our ex's and a very different view as you, aside from boundaries, is because they understand one simple thing, whether we guys have feelings for us DOESN'T MATTER! They treated us like crap, we don't accept crap treatment, therefore we leave. It's that simple. If that's the way they express their "love", we don't want it. That's what you fail to see.

 

This is a good point, and yes, I guess I do fail to see this sometimes. However, it IS why I finally ended things. Wishing he would come back new and improved doesn't negate the fact that I DID end it. It's been almost two weeks now since I've talked to him.

[lostlove76]

I just saw a flirty comment he made to a mutual friend on Facebook, so now I'm feeling 10x worse. What makes a guy be a womanizer?? Why are some like that? Flirting with anything that breathes. This girl he commented to is very pretty and sweet, but not very smart (he highly values intelligence), super-religious (he doesn't believe in God), and wants kids (he definitely does not want kids). It's like nothing matters other than her being hot. Her post was about her biological clock ticking and wanting kids and feeling old, and he said "Come down here" with a winky face.

 

So now I feel mad again. He really IS a womanizer, and I just don't understand it. Why do some men need tons of women at all times?

 

I'm seriously thinking about answering next time he calls and just being like, what do you want?? Why do you keep calling? You told me you're a womanizer, and apparently that's all you are. You have no morals.

 

I don't guess I'll do that, but it just makes me so mad that he's such a jacka$&.

[boltnrun]

Guarantee if you do answer, you'll be back on her posting about how you "fussed" at him for 5 hours, then agreed to take him back because he proposed marriage and promised he'd come get you "next week", oh, and that his Facebook comment "didn't mean anything". That he was drunk when he wrote it. And you want to believe him, so back you'll be!

 

Please tell me this horrible scenario is dead wrong!

 

Please tell me you respect yourself enough to refuse to engage with a man who seems to think women are just as replaceable as cars or toys.

 

And please respect yourself enough to not go groveling to him, which speaking to him WILL be, no matter how much you "fuss" at him.

[lostlove76]

I guess you're right. I just want him to know what a complete jerk he is, ya know? I guess it would feel good to tell him what I think of him. Refusing to engage is probably the best way to show it. Silence speaks volumes, right.

 

Ugh, just so hurt and mad. I was doing better and now I've been back in a hole the past couple of days. I've also completely lost sight of why I ended things, and my focus has become "will he change and step things up."

 

I don't mean to be dramatic, but this whole thing has just been one big nightmare on and off from the day I met him.

[boltnrun]

I don't think you're being dramatic. You're being honest. And I think that's great. Not great that you're hurting (because that sucks), but because maybe now the rose-colored glasses are starting to come off.

 

He's not the wonderful man you can plan a future with. He's who he is RIGHT NOW. This is him, unfortunately.

 

And YOU don't have to be a part of it anymore.

[lostlove76]

It's just that he has two sides. The wonderful side, and the horrible side. Are most people like that? Seems like most people are more one way or the other, or somewhere in the middle. But he has these two extremes all within the same person. Honestly, maybe something really is "wrong" with him. When he told me he's narcissistic I asked him if he thinks that's a mental/personality disorder, and he said of course it is. He's always claimed that he's "crazy." And his ex and all her friends thought he's a sociopath. So maybe I'm trying to make sense out of something that can't be made sense of. I really don't know.

 

I just don't get why he has to flirt constantly and constantly be on the lookout for more women. Last year when I went through his phone, during that period of time before we became exclusive, he was texting with some girl he had hooked up with that he'd met at the grocery store where she worked. And she was fussing at him for then, after they hooked up, giving his number to her coworker. I mean really! Who does crap like that.

 

Just so angry. Venting. Sorry.

[boltnrun]

He does crap like that.

 

I know you think my ex truly loved me, but the five years he was pursuing me he had a girlfriend the entire time. A girlfriend he told he loved SO much and couldn't live without. And once he successfully got me back, he continued to pursue and sleep with as many women as he could, including the woman he was with during those five years. There were 4 of them that I knew about, plus more I didn't. But this is a guy who "loved" me???

 

Most people do not have a "horrible" side. These men do. And the reason they continue is because there are women who will excuse that kind of behavior by saying things like "oh, he loves me the best he can".

 

You've chosen to ignore his behavior for a long time. I hope you're done excusing and minimizing the things he does, because it's only hurting you.

[lilygirl]

I just saw a flirty comment he made to a mutual friend on Facebook, so now I'm feeling 10x worse

 

You see here is that lack of empathy thing again. Flirting with a mutual friend on Facebook is very immature, it is mean, and is the stuff of drama.

 

I think you are doing really well in not taking his calls and I think your next step should be working on reducing the time you spend looking at his online activity. Of course, it would be the optimum if you could stop cold turkey but I think if you can slowly start to withdraw, by setting small goals for yourself, it will help you a great deal.

[lostlove76]

He does crap like that.

 

I know you think my ex truly loved me, but the five years he was pursuing me he had a girlfriend the entire time. A girlfriend he told he loved SO much and couldn't live without. And once he successfully got me back, he continued to pursue and sleep with as many women as he could, including the woman he was with during those five years. There were 4 of them that I knew about, plus more I didn't. But this is a guy who "loved" me???

 

Most people do not have a "horrible" side. These men do. And the reason they continue is because there are women who will excuse that kind of behavior by saying things like "oh, he loves me the best he can".

 

You've chosen to ignore his behavior for a long time. I hope you're done excusing and minimizing the things he does, because it's only hurting you.

 

Do you think your ex will ever change? I guess not, since like you said, there are always women who will put up with it. Do these guys just have no morals? I've never cheated and never would. I just can't understand it. Nor have I ever been with multiple guys during the same time period. It's just disgusting behavior. They don't care who they lead on and hurt.

 

I never caught him cheating or being inappropriate during the 6 months we were exclusive before he left, but I was always worried about it, and I have to wonder if he did ever cheat. He let me look at his phone on random occasions and nothing was on there, but he could have kept stuff deleted. I was CONSTANTLY paranoid about him being with others, because I knew his past. It was such a terrible feeling.

 

During most of the 5 months long-distance, he kept assuring me that he wasn't talking to anyone else or seeing anyone else, and said he wouldn't, and that he wouldn't lie to me. He said he didn't want anyone else. There's no telling what all he did or when. Any time he brought up a female he would always assure me that she was just a friend, without me even having to ask. All the way up through the conversation when he called himself a womanizer and then told me about dying girl during the next conversation.

 

It's hard when you don't even know what's real anymore.

 

How long did you stay with your ex after you took him back? Did you drop him the second you found out he was cheating, or did you stick in there for a while?

[lostlove76]

I just saw a flirty comment he made to a mutual friend on Facebook, so now I'm feeling 10x worse

 

You see here is that lack of empathy thing again. Flirting with a mutual friend on Facebook is very immature, it is mean, and is the stuff of drama.

 

I think you are doing really well in not taking his calls and I think your next step should be working on reducing the time you spend looking at his online activity. Of course, it would be the optimum if you could stop cold turkey but I think if you can slowly start to withdraw, by setting small goals for yourself, it will help you a great deal.

 

I halfway wondered if he knew I would see it. He may have been clueless and not even think that I would. I don't even know if he knows that we're mutual friends. She's not a FRIEND friend to me, just someone who went to our high school (I don't know if they have any sort of history though). But if he figured I would see it, then it was mean for sure.

 

I'm sure you're right that I need to quit looking at his online stuff. I feel like while I'm still somewhat weak for him, I need to know what's going on - in case I do weaken and think about answering the phone. I feel like if I had no clue he's been on the dating site so much, I would probably have been tempted to answer. And then when I don't find bad things, it makes me feel better. So like reinventmyself was talking earlier about payoffs, I guess those are the reasons I do it.

[boltnrun]

No, my ex will not "change" because he doesn't want to.

 

Think about it...if behaving a certain way got you exactly what you wanted, why would you want to "change"?

 

And idiot that I was, I stayed with that loser for FOUR YEARS. No, I didn't stay out of love. I stayed because my self esteem was in the toilet and I felt I HAD to get him to love me so I could feel like I was worthy of being loved. And no, my idiot self did not break up with him. HE broke up with ME because he'd been sleeping with his nephew's fiancee and he wanted HER to be his girlfriend, not me. She's something like 15 years younger than me (and 12 years younger than him), so yeah.

 

And of course he's going to tell you what you want to hear! Do you think he was going to tell you "yeah, I love you, but I also want to have the option to kiss and maybe a bit more with random women. And I'm going to go on dating sites to look for even more women. You cool with that?"

[lostlove76]

Ugh, your ex sounds horrible. Just horrible. I get why you stayed. At least you finally got out and now you're stronger. I truly hope these men wind up old and alone with no one who cares about them, after all the hurt they've caused. Then they'll see. I know that sounds mean of me, but they are mean. Your ex, and yes my ex, and every other womanizing loser out there.

 

I don't know why mine keeps calling as if I would be okay with any of this. I always made it clear that cheating was THE deal breaker. For that reason alone, I need to continue not answering the phone. So he'll see that I was serious.

[boltnrun]

Ugh, your ex sounds horrible. Just horrible. I get why you stayed. At least you finally got out and now you're stronger. I truly hope these men wind up old and alone with no one who cares about them, after all the hurt they've caused. Then they'll see. I know that sounds mean of me, but they are mean. Your ex, and yes my ex, and every other womanizing loser out there.

 

I don't know why mine keeps calling as if I would be okay with any of this. I always made it clear that cheating was THE deal breaker. For that reason alone, I need to continue not answering the phone. So he'll see that I was serious.

 

Well, because you came back before. You took him back after the previous episode of going on the dating site, and I wonder if it's happened before and you took him back. So your history proves that your boundaries are made of sand.

 

BUT...none of that matters if you stick to your boundaries now. Which I think you should. We can't go back and change the past, but we can make darn sure the present and future are better for us by refusing to allow these men back into our lives.

[lilygirl]

I just saw a flirty comment he made to a mutual friend on Facebook, so now I'm feeling 10x worse

 

You see here is that lack of empathy thing again. Flirting with a mutual friend on Facebook is very immature, it is mean, and is the stuff of drama.

 

I think you are doing really well in not taking his calls and I think your next step should be working on reducing the time you spend looking at his online activity. Of course, it would be the optimum if you could stop cold turkey but I think if you can slowly start to withdraw, by setting small goals for yourself, it will help you a great deal.

 

I believe that many commitment phobes or those who are emotionally unavailable like to live their lives online. It is much safer behind a computer.

 

It is impossible to know what his intentions are but I ask you this, would you post flirtatious comments on a mutual guy friend's Facebook if there was a slight chance he could see it, considering everything that is going on with the two of you? I doubt it. Again, this is another example of him showing you who he is.

[notalady]

Yes, that is how HEALTHY love works, from a HEALTHY individual. However, not everyone is healthy and well-adjusted. In fact, most people aren't. People bring all kinds of baggage and emotional issues and past hurts and personality disorders and guardedness and fears into relationships, and this all affects how they treat someone. It doesn't mean it isn't LOVE. Take myself... There are times when I've acted extremely UNloving towards him and others - saying mean things, getting angry, shutting them out, refusing to talk to them, pretending not to care - and no one can tell me that I don't love him or my family members or whoever else I've exhibited these behaviors towards. Love is not black or white. People love to the extent of their emotional capabilities, and that shows itself in many different ways - some good and some bad.

 

Absolutely, a lot of people have baggage and issues. Nothing stopping them from working on these issues and better themselves. Nothing stopping them from wanting to become emotionally healthy and well adjusted. Nothing stopping them from starting to make a conscious effort to behave and react to things differently. Only thing stopping them is themselves, is whether they want to. It's a choice.

 

Love as a feeling is not black and white. But love as a verb, as an action, as a way of how you treat people, IS pretty black and white. And whether you choose to accept the way someone treats you, regardless of what they are FEELING, is also pretty black and white. If the treatment is hurtful, mean, dishonest, disloyal, does it matter whether they think/feel they love you? At the end of the day, it's the action that matters. It's the action that actually impacts you.

 

As for the way you react to him, it sounds to me like excuses for his bad behaviour, like you're bringing yourself down to his level by saying "I'm bad too". Well it's not the same. You are reacting to his bad treatment, the way you reacted aren't the best, the best reaction would be to leave, but short of leaving, these reactions are your self defence mechanism, much like your immune system would react to a virus or bacteria harming you. You can't be expected to behave lovingly towards someone who doesn't behave lovingly to towards you. It's not the same thing as what he does. He's the one doing the hurting, you're the one reacting to it.

 

Wishing he would come back new and improved doesn't negate the fact that I DID end it.

 

And this is your problem, you keep thinking / wishing he will change. Firstly people don't change fundamentally, that is their personality and character and values don't change. The choices they make in life may change, that includes whether they want to work towards being emotionally healthy. They may choose to do it now, or 10 years later, or 20 years later, or never. They may make a little bit of progress, or a lot, or never. This is outside of your control. So in hoping someone will change eventually, is like betting on roulette. Except you're betting with your life.

 

It's great that you've made it to two weeks NC now. I'm (and other posters) keep saying all this to keep you from giving in and to actually change your mindset in how you're viewing this. Because to me, as long as you still have hope that he might change to become the man you want, and as long as you continue to insist on subjecting yourself to opportunists to engage with him (his calls and texts and online presences), there's still have a good chance you'll give in and go back to him regardless how long you've made it in NC.

[lostlove76]

Well, because you came back before. You took him back after the previous episode of going on the dating site, and I wonder if it's happened before and you took him back. So your history proves that your boundaries are made of sand.

 

BUT...none of that matters if you stick to your boundaries now. Which I think you should. We can't go back and change the past, but we can make darn sure the present and future are better for us by refusing to allow these men back into our lives.

 

Amen on that last part. We'll see if I can remain strong. This is the longest I've ever ignored his calls. I feel a bit pathetic that I'm still thinking I would take him back in a heartbeat if he showed up at my door (or some similar action). Maybe that will pass with time. I think that once I get over the feelings I have for him, I will be strong enough in the future to never go back.

 

It makes me feel somewhat good to show him that I can resist him. I sent him that final text almost two weeks ago, and then I dropped off the face of the earth. He has no clue what I'm doing or thinking, because my Facebook page is totally private.

 

Whether this has happened before and I've taken him back (per your first paragraph), that's kind of fuzzy. It probably has in some way shape or form. He was so constantly pushing boundaries.