The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[lostlove76]

Just saw your Dr Phil quote (love him!). I'm not sure what my payoff is. I would have to think about that.

[reinventmyself]

Just saw your Dr Phil quote (love him!). I'm not sure what my payoff is. I would have to think about that.

 

I'd be interested in what you come up with.

I have an idea. But I'll share that after you give it some thought.

My idea isn't important. Your ability to look at yourself is!

[lostlove76]

Tell me this: Did he really delete his profile or hid it?

There is a difference and difference shows his intent.

 

Well, he didn't delete it. He offered to, and he would have, but I didn't feel like trying to explain to a drunk person how to do it at that moment. He has the same profile he's had since a year before we met on there. He just leaves the account open and then doesn't get on when we're together (except when he does). You can tell how long ago someone was active. And you can also tell if a profile has been hidden or deleted. But like I said, he never did delete it because I just couldn't be bothered to try to explain how to do it. I was pretty much mostly done at the point he said that, given that he had logged back in in the first place. I didn't care to know WHY he logged in - whether it was something innocent like to check an email alert or he was getting cold feet about the ultimatum so he got on there. Didn't matter to me. My heart dropped when I saw he had been on, and that started the beginning of the end.

 

ETA: actually, I think he got on before the ultimatum. That was the reason I gave the ultimatum because it made me feel fed up. He got on the weekend after we had been super super close the previous week and he had asked me to marry him. So I think maybe he got on because he freaked himself out but who knows. Just more commitment-phobia BS, whatever it was.

[lostlove76]

I'd be interested in what you come up with.

I have an idea. But I'll share that after you give it some thought.

My idea isn't important. Your ability to look at yourself is!

 

Okay! I hope I can remember to think about it. I'm about to be busy and distracted for the rest of the afternoon and evening (need to eat, someone coming over, going to work for a few hours). But I will think about it later when I have time. I'll be curious to see if my idea matches yours.

[reinventmyself]

Well, he didn't delete it. He offered to, and he would have, but I didn't feel like trying to explain to a drunk person how to do it at that moment. He has the same profile he's had since a year before we met on there. He just leaves the account open and then doesn't get on when we're together (except when he does). You can tell how long ago someone was active. And you can also tell if a profile has been hidden or deleted. But like I said, he never did delete it because I just couldn't be bothered to try to explain how to do it. I was pretty much mostly done at the point he said that, given that he had logged back in in the first place. I didn't care to know WHY he logged in - whether it was something innocent like to check an email alert or he was getting cold feet about the ultimatum so he got on there. Didn't matter to me. My heart dropped when I saw he had been on, and that started the beginning of the end.

 

ETA: actually, I think he got on before the ultimatum. That was the reason I gave the ultimatum because it made me feel fed up. He got on the weekend after we had been super super close the previous week and he had asked me to marry him. So I think maybe he got on because he freaked himself out but who knows. Just more commitment-phobia BS, whatever it was.

 

 

Several times through out this thread you referred to the exact words `delete'.

 

Now a very lengthy justification to a pinpointed question or maybe you didn't state it correctly and maybe he was afraid or maybe he didn't know how or maybe, maybe, maybe.

 

You asked him to delete it, right? He didn't.

[boltnrun]

Maybe you don't want him to delete that profile because if he does, you wouldn't be able to monitor his activity.

 

I don't recall, when he called you (last night, the night before, not sure) and left that voice mail saying he missed you, did he apologize for anything? Or did he just say he missed you?

[lostlove76]

Several times through out this thread you referred to the exact words `delete'.

 

Now a very lengthy justification to a pinpointed question or maybe you didn't state it correctly and maybe he was afraid or maybe he didn't know how or maybe, maybe, maybe.

 

You asked him to delete it, right? He didn't.

 

I don't think I did? There was just the one time when he offered to delete it like I explained above. I confronted him about being on there but I don't recall asking him to delete it.

[lostlove76]

Maybe you don't want him to delete that profile because if he does, you wouldn't be able to monitor his activity.

 

I don't recall, when he called you (last night, the night before, not sure) and left that voice mail saying he missed you, did he apologize for anything? Or did he just say he missed you?

 

Bingo, on the deleting. Lol. When he left the account open but didn't get on, I could tell he hadn't been on. If he made a new one or a hidden one, I couldn't tell when he was on or maybe couldn't find the new one. It's stupid to even HAVE to monitor such a thing, because he shouldn't even get on it, but being how he is, I felt like I needed to. Because if he was going to be on there, I needed to know so that I could make a choice whether to stay with him or not.

 

It was last night that he left the voicemail. And NOPE, he didn't apologize for anything, or say he can't live without me, or anything meaningful other than that he misses me. I was actually just thinking about that before I read your post. To be fair, there's a high chance he would say those things if I answered the phone, because he always has. But since I'm not answering then he should tell me some other way - text or voicemail. He did a lot of crappy things and he needs to try harder to own up to it.

[lostlove76]

I do know that he would apologize if I talked to him. Just about every time we talked, he was apologizing for something or another - he always did when I was upset, but he also did it on his own and unprompted a lot, too. He's sincerely apologized for everything he's ever done, I have to give him that. But as I eventually started telling him, sorry doesn't cut it when you continue to do the same things over and over and again.

 

But I would like an apology for the latest round of crap - or just for being a jerk in general. Would be nice if he would just text me his thoughts since I won't answer! But he doesn't do that, he just keeps trying to call. I was surpised he left the miss you message. He doesn't normally leave voice mails. He's left less than 5 in the entire past two years.

[lostlove76]

In your case you have used anxiety as your excuse to overlook bad behavior. It's time to stop that!

 

So, in a lot of ways, anxiety has worked for you. As Dr Phil would say, `people do things that work'

There is some sort of pay off for you or you wouldn't be doing it.

 

Oops, looks like you already said what you thought it was! I just noticed that as I was finding the post to quote.

 

I'm trying to think right now what my payoff would be, but it's hard when I'm not in the moment of anxiety. Maybe what you said above is part of why I do it, or maybe I just use it as an excuse after the fact. I think that's more likely - I use the anxiety later on to excuse his bad behavior. But while I'm having the anxious moments, I think maybe what I'm doing is imagining worst case scenario so that I'm not taken off guard if worst case turns out to be true. Because you can't really be disappointed if you knew it was coming, right? So I work myself all into a lather about something, and then I can either tell myself "SEE, I was RIGHT," or I can say "WHEW, I was wrong, nothing bad happened." I think it's a means of being prepared for the worst, because deep inside myself, that's what I really expect to happen.

 

Does that make sense?

[notalady]

Well, he didn't delete it. He offered to, and he would have, but I didn't feel like trying to explain to a drunk person how to do it at that moment. He has the same profile he's had since a year before we met on there. He just leaves the account open and then doesn't get on when we're together (except when he does). You can tell how long ago someone was active. And you can also tell if a profile has been hidden or deleted. But like I said, he never did delete it because I just couldn't be bothered to try to explain how to do it. I was pretty much mostly done at the point he said that, given that he had logged back in in the first place. I didn't care to know WHY he logged in - whether it was something innocent like to check an email alert or he was getting cold feet about the ultimatum so he got on there. Didn't matter to me. My heart dropped when I saw he had been on, and that started the beginning of the end.

 

 

You do realise how ridiculous all that sounds? He's not stupid, if he knows how to open an account, he knows how to delete one. He didn't delete it because he doesn't want to NOT because you haven't shown him how.

[lostlove76]

You do realise how ridiculous all that sounds? He's not stupid, if he knows how to open an account, he knows how to delete one. He didn't delete it because he doesn't want to NOT because you haven't shown him how.

 

I deleted everything I just typed because it's just a bunch of excuses.

 

Basically, you are correct.

[notalady]

I deleted everything I just typed because it's just a bunch of excuses.

 

Basically, you are correct.

 

Was going to read and respond but you deleted before I could read it. I'm glad you realise you're just making excuses for him. Much progress!

[lostlove76]

Was going to read and respond but you deleted before I could read it. I'm glad you realise you're just making excuses for him. Much progress!

 

Thanks! I think I don't even realize how much I do it sometimes (make excuses).

[reinventmyself]

I do know that he would apologize if I talked to him. Just about every time we talked, he was apologizing for something or another - he always did when I was upset, but he also did it on his own and unprompted a lot, too. He's sincerely apologized for everything he's ever done, I have to give him that. But as I eventually started telling him, sorry doesn't cut it when you continue to do the same things over and over and again.

 

But I would like an apology for the latest round of crap - or just for being a jerk in general. Would be nice if he would just text me his thoughts since I won't answer! But he doesn't do that, he just keeps trying to call. I was surpised he left the miss you message. He doesn't normally leave voice mails. He's left less than 5 in the entire past two years.

I hope you realize an apology means absolutely nothing if it doesn't have the actions to back it up. So no, it's not sincere.

There is a huge difference between a sincere apology and someone saying what they think you want to hear just to relieve their own discomfort.

Think about it.

The apologies benifitted him but did they change anything or benifit you?

[lostlove76]

I hope you realize an apology means absolutely nothing if it doesn't have the actions to back it up. So no, it's not sincere.

There is a huge difference between a sincere apology and someone saying what they think you want to hear just to relieve their own discomfort.

Think about it.

The apologies benifitted him but did they change anything or benifit you?

 

But he sounded sincere Sometimes he sounded like he was kind of talking to himself when he said "I'm SUCH an effing IDIOT." Then he would say sorry over and over and I could hear in his voice that he truly meant it. He truly felt bad about it. But the problem is/was that he just turned around and did similar crap all over again. So I agree with you that apologies mean nothing without action (not doing the same thing again!).

 

I really don't think he's a heartless guy. I think he does have moments of clarity when he realizes what a jerk he's been. But he's also selfish and entitled and has poor impulse control. And where does that leave me? Hurt, over and over again. As I've mentioned, he's gotten away with things his whole life. He has sweet parents and he's an only child, so I imagine that he learned early on to take advantage and escape perceived "engulfment." And he's so sweet and charming and good-looking that he wins people over without even trying. People love him. Girls love him. He's used to getting away with doing whatever he wants to do, and then he apologizes and acts sweet and all is forgiven. For almost 40 years, this has been the case for him.

 

So can he ever change? I can't help but keep hoping that he'll have an epiphany and decide to do the right things. I'm missing him a lot tonight. But as I type this, he's been on the stupid dating site all night. He mostly stayed off for the past 2-3 days, wasn't on this week that much at all, and tried calling every other day. But now he's back on full-blast, maybe because I wouldn't answer. I KNOW he stayed off previously because he hoped it would increase the chances of my talking to him. I know him. He's not stupid.

[LAYAAN]

Quick question though: You know how sometimes people will hit rock bottom and lose something or everything and then realize they need to change. So IF he realized what he lost and was ready to commit and make the changes (please just this once humor me and believe that our trust and connection was as I've stated, just for the sake of this question), how would I know?? Since I refuse to answer the phone. Would he know that the thing to do would be to drive up here and show me? I know I shouldn't take him back under any circumstances, but if he completely changed his ways and fully committed, I still would at this point. That would mean living in the same place, no other girls or dating sites, no periods of withdrawal. Full commitment.

I'm not sure that it would happen anytime soon, but even if you cut all the contact with him, if he really wants to get in touch with you, he WILL find a way to get in touch. Trust me on that. I have closed matches online and men have found a way to get in touch. Nothing, no barrier would stop him to reach out to you. Until then, consider this as chapter closed and work on moving on. Seriously. As someone else mentioned, the fact that the journal is 60+ pages long already and you are still going back and forth. Hope is not always a good thing. Even if you don't want a BF/marriage/kids, for the sake of your self-respect you should block him and move on. Trust all of us who have been telling you to do the same. You will not regret it. You WILL regret hanging onto hope, though.

[lostlove76]

I'm not sure that it would happen anytime soon, but even if you cut all the contact with him, if he really wants to get in touch with you, he WILL find a way to get in touch. Trust me on that. I have closed matches online and men have found a way to get in touch. Nothing, no barrier would stop him to reach out to you. Until then, consider this as chapter closed and work on moving on. Seriously. As someone else mentioned, the fact that the journal is 60+ pages long already and you are still going back and forth. Hope is not always a good thing. Even if you don't want a BF/marriage/kids, for the sake of your self-respect you should block him and move on. Trust all of us who have been telling you to do the same. You will not regret it. You WILL regret hanging onto hope, though.

 

I reread what I said in what you quoted, and I meant "our love and connection" not "our trust and connection." There was no trust!! (on my end). Weird. Anyways, just wanted to clear that up.

 

So you think that even if I refuse to answer the phone, he'll find some way to tell me if he wants to change his ways and fully commit? I worry that even if he decides that, he'll think that I've moved on or that I hate him so much that he'll just eventually give up. He obviously still cares at this point, or he wouldn't have kept trying to call even as I ignore him. But eventually pride will take over and he'll get tired of being rejected. That's my worry. Because I DO want to be with him, but ONLY if he can be consistent in being a good and exclusive boyfriend and make it so that we're in the same place.

 

I've been thinking a lot about that today. Wondering if I'm doing the right thing by 100% ignoring him. I don't want to lose him forever, I just want him to treat me better. And if he can't do that then I need to move on. So I guess I'm kind of waiting to see what will happen, and hoping that in the meantime I quit caring. I still love him, I can't help it.

 

I do get what you're saying, completely. Just being honest about where I'm at.

[notalady]

If someone want to do something, they will find a way to do it. You ask how does he know to show up at your door or how does he tell you he changed? My ex, when I broke up with him, called me 8 times in a row and cried and begged on the phone, and when I blocked him, he left voice mails saying how sorry he is and how he f***ed up and how he's been a s**t boyfriend and begged for another chance. And he showed up at my door because there was no way he could get in touch with me since I blocked him, he thought if he could just see me in person and explain things, I might change my mind. Even months of NC later, when he had already apparently given up, he'd email me at work (because he's blocked everywhere else) to try and ask for another chance.

 

All that was very disrespectful to me because I told him repeated and very firmly that I don't want to give this another chance (I had already made up my mind) and repeatedly said please respect my decision if you ever loved me (he clearly did not), and showing up at my place uninvited was creepy and stalker-ish.

 

BUT, I'm telling you this just to say, if a man wants you back, trust me he will do everything he can to try. Once again, your guy doesn't because he doesn't want to, not because he doesn't know how. You need to remember he is his own person and he is capable of doing a lot of things, he choose not to do them. That should be enough reason for you to give up all hope and walk away for good.

[lostlove76]

But the thing is, my guy IS respectful, and if he thinks I want nothing to do with him, he wouldn't show up at my door even if he wanted to. I'm not making excuses on this, just trying to figure out if he really would figure out what I want and then do it. I haven't told him what I want him to do after I quit talking to him, so he could easily assume that I've found someone else or want nothing to do with him. Neither of which is the case! He has pride, and he has respect as far as not forcing himself on someone. So how would he know?!? I hope that you're right, because that would bring peace of mind to feel like he would stop at nothing if he wanted to be with his soulmate (as he called me so many times). But I'm just not sure. Here I am loving him and wanting nothing more than a committed exclusive relationship with him, yet I'm refusing to respond to him at all - so what message does that send to him?

 

I just worry that I'm not doing the right thing here. He can't read my mind.

[lostlove76]

This is my take on the situation right now. I just need to write this, because I'm awake and thinking about it and might as well get it out of my head and into written words.

 

I 100% believe that he does love me to his fullest extent and sees our connection as meaningful. However, he's not at all the type of person to go for a traditional relationship. He's independent and selfish and entitled. He has commitment issues and intimacy issues. He feels freaked out when things get super close. So what he would ideally like is to have our loving bond while also being able to do whatever he wants whenever he wants and be accountable for nothing. He resents anyone telling him what to do or how to be. He agrees in the moment but then rebels against it because he doesn't want to be tied down or restricted in any way. He sees no problem with going on dating sites or flirting with other girls or whatever else because "it doesn't mean anything." He doesn't want me living with him because it would restrict his freedom. But he doesn't want to lose me. So he tries for a while to do the "right" thing, but it's not him, and he always rebels in some way at some point.

 

So could he ever "change" and realize that this is NOT going to be okay for any girl he's going to be in a relationship with? I think he knows on some level that it's not okay, hence all the apologies and trying to do the right thing for some period of time. But then he reverts to his (probable) core beliefs that monogamy really doesn't matter and certainly doesn't suit him, and he gets on the dating site or kisses some dying girl on the beach.

 

Which sounds like a hopeless situation. My question is just if he'll feel the loss enough to realize that he needs to quit being so selfish and decide to be a decent enough person to meet the realistic needs of someone else (me)? And if so, would he put aside all pride and "respect" for what he thinks I may want (he probably will eventually think I want him to leave me alone) to go after what is important.

 

Just blabbing my thoughts out, sorry.

[LAYAAN]

But the thing is, my guy IS respectful, and if he thinks I want nothing to do with him, he wouldn't show up at my door even if he wanted to. I'm not making excuses on this, just trying to figure out if he really would figure out what I want and then do it. I haven't told him what I want him to do after I quit talking to him, so he could easily assume that I've found someone else or want nothing to do with him. Neither of which is the case! He has pride, and he has respect as far as not forcing himself on someone. So how would he know?!? I hope that you're right, because that would bring peace of mind to feel like he would stop at nothing if he wanted to be with his soulmate (as he called me so many times). But I'm just not sure. Here I am loving him and wanting nothing more than a committed exclusive relationship with him, yet I'm refusing to respond to him at all - so what message does that send to him?

 

I just worry that I'm not doing the right thing here. He can't read my mind.

If he is respectful, he will respectfully let you know that he wants you back and if you say no, he will leave you alone. But he will make every effort to let you know that. Guys that are disrespectful are the ones who keep saying the same thing over n over, even after they are told that you are not interested. He knows that you want commitment and he will know that you blocked him because he didn't offer you one. So, he will make an effort to let you know if he changes his mind. Normally, when they have an epiphany, its too late. Most likely, you won't want him by that time. You would be at a much different place emotionally. But to get to that place, you need to start your journey and the first step is to develop distance by blocking all contact with this man.

[lostlove76]

If he is respectful, he will respectfully let you know that he wants you back and if you say no, he will leave you alone. But he will make every effort to let you know that. Guys that are disrespectful are the ones who keep saying the same thing over n over, even after they are told that you are not interested. He knows that you want commitment and he will know that you blocked him because he didn't offer you one. So, he will make an effort to let you know if he changes his mind. Normally, when they have an epiphany, its too late. Most likely, you won't want him by that time. You would be at a much different place emotionally. But to get to that place, you need to start your journey and the first step is to develop distance by blocking all contact with this man.

 

I hope you're right!! I just know that pride eventually takes hold. He's tried calling 2-3 times on 4 different nights since I told him I had to be done, and I've been radio silent during all of it. If I were him, I would be thinking I'd found someone else or wanted him to leave me alone. In which case the respectful thing to do would be to quit calling. But I don't want him to quit calling. I want him to change and prove that he's going to. That wasn't my only intention when I cut him off. I just couldn't handle it anymore the way things were. But I miss him and want him to fix it already.

[missmarple]

Well, since you're 100% sure he loves you, respects you and considers your connection meaningful and that it's his pride that's stopping him showing up to your door (what if you've met someone else????), go ahead and call him yourself.

 

In your case, nothing anyone tells you can make a difference...I'm sure of that now. So, continue as you were and wait for him to change. Who knows? Since he loves you so much, he might change for you.

[lostlove76]

If someone want to do something, they will find a way to do it. You ask how does he know to show up at your door or how does he tell you he changed? My ex, when I broke up with him, called me 8 times in a row and cried and begged on the phone, and when I blocked him, he left voice mails saying how sorry he is and how he f***ed up and how he's been a s**t boyfriend and begged for another chance. And he showed up at my door because there was no way he could get in touch with me since I blocked him, he thought if he could just see me in person and explain things, I might change my mind. Even months of NC later, when he had already apparently given up, he'd email me at work (because he's blocked everywhere else) to try and ask for another chance.

 

All that was very disrespectful to me because I told him repeated and very firmly that I don't want to give this another chance (I had already made up my mind) and repeatedly said please respect my decision if you ever loved me (he clearly did not), and showing up at my place uninvited was creepy and stalker-ish.

 

BUT, I'm telling you this just to say, if a man wants you back, trust me he will do everything he can to try. Once again, your guy doesn't because he doesn't want to, not because he doesn't know how. You need to remember he is his own person and he is capable of doing a lot of things, he choose not to do them. That should be enough reason for you to give up all hope and walk away for good.

 

You say clearly he didn't love you, but to me it seems like clearly he did. If he was just "eh" about you, why would he try so hard and go to so much trouble? I think it's unfortunate that we take the stance of "if he loved me he would ____ (insert what we or others think someone SHOULD do to show love). We're all complicated and just trying to navigate through life full of our own issues. Doesn't mean it's right or okay, the way we act. But sometimes we don't know any better. Seems to me like he loved you, for what it's worth.