The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[boltnrun]

Thank you

 

Thank you so much for the kind support.

 

But you still won't consider blocking him?

 

Is the temporary "high" worth the low that you feel when he doesn't call?

 

This is another example of choosing short-term relief over long-term peace.

 

Do you usually have trouble looking at things long-term?

[lostlove76]

But you still won't consider blocking him?

I don't want to block him.

 

Is the temporary "high" worth the low that you feel when he doesn't call?

I think so, actually. Because at least I can look at it and say okay, he's tried to call three different nights since I told him it was over, so he must care, and really didn't want me out of his life. Had I blocked him, I would've assumed the worst (that he didn't call and didn't care). So I'm glad to know he tried.

 

Do you usually have trouble looking at things long-term?

Yes, I do usually have trouble at looking at things long-term! For sure. I would just as soon live day by day or week by week. Which is probably why I'm in the predicament I'm in in life, with no long-term goals and such.

[Silverbirch]

You need to start putting at least more energy than you are right now into those other areas of your life - shifting the focus back to you rather than him.

 

I am working more on my relationships with family and getting more work. I am thinking about my other goals and dreams. None of those things have anything to do with him.

[lostlove76]

I'm kind of doing that, slowly but surely. I know when I write here it sounds as if I'm dwelling on it 24/7. I can't say yet that he's ever completely off my mind, but it's not nearly as bad as it was. I'm doing a few things with my time (working, cleaning). Not enough, yet, but it's a teeny tiny bit of progress, I feel. I'm glad that you're making progress!

[missmarple]

It's very obvious that you haven't given up on him. If you had, you would have blocked him and kept him blocked. All the rest is just chat to spend your time while you're waiting for him to do some 'grand gesture'. Good luck with that...I hope you won't be 60 by the time you decide he wasn't right for you (took my friend 6 yrs to give up on the married guy she was seeing..and, actually, it only happened when he disappeared for good).

[lostlove76]

You're right, I have not completely given up on him in the past week and a half since we last talked. It's a process. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to pine away until I'm 60. I imagine that as time passes I will have more clarity on the situation. It's already to the point where 80% of me feels like he's too much of a womanizer (since he TOLD me that he is) to ever again be trusted. 20% wishes he could change. But I'm also not hardly reminiscing about all the good things anymore, either. I don't want to think about it because it makes me miss him more. So I've kind of become numb a good portion of the time, with some hours or days feeling worse than that and some feeling a bit more okay than that.

[lostlove76]

He just called again, three times, and left a voice mail saying he misses me. So he's pretty much kept up with the same calling schedule as if we were still talking. I feel mean not answering, so reminder to self about why I had to quit talking to him in the first place:

 

1. he led me on for 5 months saying he'd come get me, I finally gave an ultimatum and he said he'd come, then he said he wasn't

2. dating site

3. some involvement with dying girl, AND told me about it as if it should not even be an issue

4. TOLD me that he's a "womanizer"

5. being a jerk last two phone conversations

6. told me he's a horrible person and that I shouldn't talk to him anymore

7. we don't live in the same place, with no realistic hopes of that changing

8. told him a million times I needed daily contact, and it never happened

9. anything more than two days in a row not hearing from him had me all in a mess

10. moved and left me in the first place

 

I could maaaaybe learn to deal with some of that, but the one thing I absolutely CANNOT deal with is any other girls. It absolutely sucks to be constantly worried about him flirting or chatting or cheating or meeting lord knows who all. I guess he slipped up when he told me about cancer girl, because now I've quit talking to him. If it was entirely innocent (I'm still not quite sure whether he actually said he kissed her) then he wouldn't have let her cry to him on the beach, and he wouldn't have told me that she's hot and pretty. IF it was some situation where say they were in a group and she wasn't crying to him specifically or something, well, it's still his fault for making it sounds like it was something. He probably doesn't even remember telling me about it, but that's not my fault either. He did tell me about it, and something must have happened, whatever it was. Not to mention the dating site. Kudos to him for staying off for over a month, but then he got back on and that was the beginning of the end for me. And ever since I told him it was over, he's been on there a lot, meeting god knows how many girls.

 

I'm mostly just talking to myself here, reminding myself what all he did wrong.

 

I'm glad to know he misses me. This is why I don't block him.

 

I just hope HE remembers what all he did wrong. I know we talked about that here before, but sometimes I just wonder if he really even has a clue. He forgets so many things, and he's so used to having gotten away with everything his whole life. But he's gotta learn some time, right? Maybe losing me will force him to think about all the ways in which he's a selfish jerk and he'll be willing to change. (I'm not going to defend myself for wanting this)

[lostlove76]

P.S. I did go back and reread relevant posts from the last few days/pages after writing the above. I was just writing what was on my mind at the exact moment I was typing it, and I needed to repeat some things to myself. Just journaling.

 

Just don't want anyone to think that your advice has been forgotten or in vain.

[missmarple]

1. he led me on for 5 months saying he'd come get me, I finally gave an ultimatum and he said he'd come, then he said he wasn't

2. dating site

3. some involvement with dying girl, AND told me about it as if it should not even be an issue

4. TOLD me that he's a "womanizer"

5. being a jerk last two phone conversations

6. told me he's a horrible person and that I shouldn't talk to him anymore

7. we don't live in the same place, with no realistic hopes of that changing

8. told him a million times I needed daily contact, and it never happened

9. anything more than two days in a row not hearing from him had me all in a mess

10. moved and left me in the first place

 

Now print this list and stick it on your fridge door...and every time you're tempted to reply to him, go and re-read it. It may sound silly but it works. It had worked for me when I had left a 1yr long relationship with someone I was madly in love with many years ago...and it was much more difficult in my case because a/he lived close to me and he waited for me on the street opposite my house for 6 months after the break-up, so, you imagine how hard it was to ignore him, b/I was just 23 and it was only my second serious relationship and c/the list was much shorter than yours!

 

You can do it.

[annie24]

Fridge door and note for your purse or pocket. I do that after a breakup and carry it around with me and pull it out when I feel weak.

[Realitynut]

LostLove....I noticed you missed one GLARING Reason why you should forget about him....and never go back!!!

 

1. He's a DRUNK

2. He only talked to you when he was DRUNK....and made promises he never intended to keep.

3. He NEVER talked to you when he was sober!!!

 

 

I am still trying to wrap that last one around my head. When you said that...I thought....WHAAAAT????

 

Just THAT in itself would make me shut the door and lock it.

[reinventmyself]

(I'm still not quite sure whether he actually said he kissed her)

 

Please don't make me go back reread everything. . but I am pretty sure kissing part was a fact.

 

. . crap. . you're going to make me go back and look now.

 

Edit: I asked if he kissed her and he said yes,

 

Come on now. .stay real here with us, ok?

You are so good at deceiving yourself, it's no wonder you don't know what's real half the time.

[lostlove76]

and it was much more difficult in my case because a/he lived close to me and he waited for me on the street opposite my house for 6 months after the break-up, so, you imagine how hard it was to ignore him, b/I was just 23 and it was only my second serious relationship and c/the list was much shorter than yours!

 

Did you ever feel mean?? I just can't shake this feeling like I'm a rude mean horrible person to just flatly ignore him. I have to constantly remind myself why I shouldn't feel guilty.

 

Now print this list and stick it on your fridge door...and every time you're tempted to reply to him, go and re-read it.

Fridge door and note for your purse or pocket. I do that after a breakup and carry it around with me and pull it out when I feel weak.

 

Good idea, I'll do this.

[lostlove76]

LostLove....I noticed you missed one GLARING Reason why you should forget about him....and never go back!!!

 

1. He's a DRUNK

2. He only talked to you when he was DRUNK....and made promises he never intended to keep.

3. He NEVER talked to you when he was sober!!!

 

 

I am still trying to wrap that last one around my head. When you said that...I thought....WHAAAAT????

 

Just THAT in itself would make me shut the door and lock it.

 

Yeah, that is a bit weird right? I guess I was just used to it. I contribute it to a social anxiety type of thing. I myself can hardly bear to have long conversations with anyone unless I'm drinking - less because I'm nervous and more just because I find it boring. Actually, let me rephrase that - anyone but HIM. I could easily have sober conversations with him. But back in the summer when I would go over to his house all the time, I would immediately start drinking when I got there, to calm my nerves and loosen up. It wasn't about him at all, it was about me and feeling a bit awkward and having some degree of social anxiety. SOOOO, I just tried not to take it too personally that he was always drunk when he called. He's always drunk anyhow, unless he's at work. And he said he never talks to anyone sober, never hangs out with anyone sober. I guess it's a coping mechanism for him.

[lostlove76]

(I'm still not quite sure whether he actually said he kissed her)

 

Please don't make me go back reread everything. . but I am pretty sure kissing part was a fact.

 

. . crap. . you're going to make me go back and look now.

 

Edit: I asked if he kissed her and he said yes,

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to go back and look > That was probably a pain in the a$$ with so many pages here, sorry!

 

Come on now. .stay real here with us, ok?

You are so good at deceiving yourself, it's no wonder you don't know what's real half the time.

 

Wow, good point. I guess maybe I do do that.

 

The reason I was wondering about the kissing thing is because, thinking back, I asked "Did you kiss her?" and I think he said "I've kissed a lot of girls" (he didn't specify a time period on that). Which I took to mean yes, and because I was so angry and determined to hear him say YES, that's kind of what I heard. So now I'm doubting myself about whether he actually kissed her or not. But maybe it's not my fault that I would be confused, because he was answering in an evasive way with his distracting non-answer. He could have said NO and he didn't.

 

And if he kissed her, then that is cheating, because this whole time he's been telling me we were exclusive and that he wasn't going to cheat on me. His excuse of not knowing what he's doing while he's drunk may be true, but isn't okay.

 

Okay, so yeah. Thanks for the reality check!!

[reinventmyself]

Did you ever feel mean?? I just can't shake this feeling like I'm a rude mean horrible person to just flatly ignore him. I have to constantly remind myself why I shouldn't feel guilty.

 

Having good boundaries and self esteem is crucial. It allows you to say no to someone and set healthy limits. It puts you in a position of taking self care and in doing so, not feeling guilty or as if you are doing something wrong. Self care is your basic right.

 

You need to care of yourself and trust yourself because for the most part no one else will. Not in the basic sense. You do not give someone else that responsibility.

It's your responsibility. So when you say no to him or don't take his call, you are doing nothing more than taking care of yourself and no longer allowing him to bust your boundaries and mess with your head.

 

There is absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. It's putting a stop to someone who is hurting you. (If you are able to admit that this is indeed toxic, stop denying and making excuses for him)

 

You have nothing to feel guilty about ESPECIALLY when someone is busting your boundaries and doing the very things that are hurtful or damaging to you ESPECIALLY after you have shared with him - the very things that do.

 

It your low self esteem talking when you feel like you are being rude when you say no to a drunk womanizer. .seriously.

 

You told him the consequences of this behavior and he didn't care. His choice.

[lostlove76]

Having good boundaries and self esteem is crucial. It allows you to say no to someone and set healthy limits. It puts you in a position of taking self care and in doing so, not feeling guilty or as if you are doing something wrong. Self care is your basic right.

 

You need to care of yourself and trust yourself because for the most part no one else will. Not in the basic sense. You do not give someone else that responsibility.

It's your responsibility. So when you say no to him or don't take his call, you are doing nothing more than taking care of yourself and no longer allowing him to bust your boundaries and mess with your head.

 

There is absolutely nothing to feel guilty about. It's putting a stop to someone who is hurting you. (If you are able to admit that this is indeed toxic, stop denying and making excuses for him)

 

You have nothing to feel guilty about ESPECIALLY when someone is busting your boundaries and doing the very things that are hurtful or damaging to you ESPECIALLY after you have shared with him - the very things that do.

 

It your low self esteem talking when you feel like you are being rude when you say no to a drunk womanizer. .seriously.

 

You told him the consequences of this behavior and he didn't care. His choice.

 

Thanks so much for this. Makes really good sense. I took a screenshot... I'm going to have to reread it several times to "believe" it (meaning, I'm just so used to letting him cross my boundaries that I have to retrain my mind that it is not okay, if that makes sense).

 

You guys are the best

 

You told him the consequences of this behavior and he didn't care. His choice.

 

I DID do this, gave him plenty of warning, and he continued with the same ole crap anyway. So now he gets to live with the consequences.

 

It just occurred to me that I would be a horrible parent!! I would be giving in to all sorts of bad behaviors. Thank goodness I don't want kids

[reinventmyself]

 

Wow, good point. I guess maybe I do do that.

 

 

I relate to what you are doing here. I was like you in some ways sometime ago. You continue pushing yourself through the muck and telling yourself it's ok and it's going to be alright for so long, you begin to believe it. You believe it despite all signs otherwise.

 

You start to lose that little voice inside you that says `turn around and go back!'

 

You become more and more invested and feel like you have so much to lose. You stop listening to that little voice for so long you no longer hear it. .or hear it correctly.

 

You question what you've heard, or doubt yourself, or you second guess it. You believe the garbage the other person whispers in your ear because you are so vulnerable at this point you've lost the strength to figure it out on your own. You'll even rewrite history if it serves your misguided purpose.

 

Time, distance and practice helps you get this back. We can't do it for you. It's called your intuition and it's the very thing that protects you.

You've lost it somewhere along the way. It's time to get it back.

[missmarple]

Did you ever feel mean?? I just can't shake this feeling like I'm a rude mean horrible person to just flatly ignore him. I have to constantly remind myself why I shouldn't feel guilty.

 

I had tried leaving him many times and I remember that feeling mean was one of the reasons I kept going back...he was excellent in the victim role, by the way. However, when I had finally had enough and decided that nothing he does or says will ever make me go back to him, it all fell into place...and I believe the same will happen to you when you're ready.

[lostlove76]

I relate to what you are doing here. I was like you in some ways sometime ago. You continue pushing yourself through the muck and telling yourself it's ok and it's going to be alright for so long, you being to believe it. You believe it despite all signs otherwise.

 

You start to lose that little voice inside you that says `turn around and go back!'

 

You become more and more invested and feel like you have so much to lose. You stop listening to that little voice for so long you no longer hear it. .or hear it correctly.

 

You question what you've heard, or doubt yourself, or you second guess it. You believe the garbage the other person whispers in your ear because you are so vulnerable at this point you've lost the strength to figure it out on your own.

 

Time, distance and practice helps you get this back. We can't do it for you. It's called your intuition and it's the very thing that protects you.

You've lost it somewhere along the way. It's time to get it back.

 

You're right, this is what I do. I don't trust my own instincts, because with my anxiety, I know that I often think up worst case scenarios and find out that I was wrong. I know of many many occasions in which I've been completely off base with what I was thinking. I have trust issues, so my natural assumption is not to trust someone. Sooo, knowing all this about myself, I started trying to talk myself out of what I was thinking at times, just to quell the anxiety. Like if I worried he was with someone when I didn't hear from him, I would come up with all kinds of ideas to the contrary, just to calm myself. My instincts often HAVE been proven to be wrong. So it's kind of hard to know what's real and what isn't!

 

Time, distance and practice helps you get this back.

Yes, maybe after some time away from all the madness (i.e. talking to him), I'll become more clear-headed.

[lostlove76]

I had tried leaving him many times and I remember that feeling mean was one of the reasons I kept going back...he was excellent in the victim role, by the way. However, when I had finally had enough and decided that nothing he does or says will ever make me go back to him, it all fell into place...and I believe the same will happen to you when you're ready.

 

I'm getting there. I feel mean, but I've been able to not answer the phone.

 

Funny how we tend to feel like the mean ones, after everything they've done to us. When they should be the ones feeling guilty.

[lostlove76]

Another quick note to self, about the dating site: He stayed off of it completely after I said something a couple months ago, which was good. Then the second I saw him sign on just once a few weeks ago, it was the beginning of the end for me like I said. Next time I talked to him, he said he would delete it - tell him how, and he would delete it right that second. Which is great and all, but he shouldn't have been on there in the first place. It shouldn't have even been an issue. When you're in an exclusive committed relationship (which he assured me that we were) you don't go on dating sites for any reason whatsoever.

 

It probably sounds stupid that I have to keep convincing myself of these things, but I have to do it! I have to do it over and over again until I actually feel it and believe it.

[reinventmyself]

You're right, this is what I do. I don't trust my own instincts, because with my anxiety, I know that I often think up worst case scenarios and find out that I was wrong. I know of many many occasions in which I've been completely off base with what I was thinking. I have trust issues, so my natural assumption is not to trust someone. Sooo, knowing all this about myself, I started trying to talk myself out of what I was thinking at times, just to quell the anxiety. Like if I worried he was with someone when I didn't hear from him, I would come up with all kinds of ideas to the contrary, just to calm myself. My instincts often HAVE been proven to be wrong. So it's kind of hard to know what's real and what isn't!

 

 

Yes, maybe after some time away from all the madness (i.e. talking to him), I'll become more clear-headed.

 

I've done that too. I have anxiety and when I felt something was wrong (and it very well may be) I would blame it on my anxiety and not the glaring signal I may have seen that told me something wasn't right.

I feel for you.

 

I've had years of therapy and I have worked on this very thing. So I know it gets really confusing and frustrating sometimes.

 

All I can say is the thing that worked for me was to spend some time being single. I know it's over stated on this board sometimes but honestly in your(my) case being alone and working on my self esteem and feeling grounded and balanced helped tremendously when I decided to date again. I took things veeeerrry slowly and would have to check and cross check things I was sensing. `is this me. . or something wrong?' It's an exhausting circular thing that goes on in your head.

 

I am happy so say that I've come along way from where I was.

I actually swung too far to the other side where I can pretty rigid or hyper vigilant with my partner.

But with being able to trust myself much more. . I can navigate the two.

 

I still have my moments. The best way I can describe it, is it feels like a riddle and it's a challenge to figure it out.

In your case you have used anxiety as your excuse to overlook bad behavior. It's time to stop that!

 

So, in a lot of ways, anxiety has worked for you. As Dr Phil would say, `people do things that work'

There is some sort of pay off for you or you wouldn't be doing it.

[lostlove76]

I'm really glad that you've been able to get a handle on it. I can only imagine the hard work you've put in to reach this point. And yes it is exhausting!!

 

Anxiety is really such a common thing, and yet those who suffer from it always feel so alone in it. So it helps to know that others have been through the same thing and can understand. People who have never felt it don't really know what it's like, and it's easy for people to "judge" - they may not mean to, but they just don't really get it. I'm not talking about anyone here at all, I just mean people in general.

 

I find it so nice that so many of you who have been through similar things are willing to put in so much time and patience and effort to help others here. I feel guilty sometimes about how much y'all are helping me, and how kindly you're going about it. Please know that none of it has gone unappreciated

[reinventmyself]

Another quick note to self, about the dating site: He stayed off of it completely after I said something a couple months ago, which was good. Then the second I saw him sign on just once a few weeks ago, it was the beginning of the end for me like I said. Next time I talked to him, he said he would delete it - tell him how, and he would delete it right that second. Which is great and all, but he shouldn't have been on there in the first place. It shouldn't have even been an issue. When you're in an exclusive committed relationship (which he assured me that we were) you don't go on dating sites for any reason whatsoever.

 

It probably sounds stupid that I have to keep convincing myself of these things, but I have to do it! I have to do it over and over again until I actually feel it and believe it.

 

Tell me this: Did he really delete his profile or hid it?

There is a difference and difference shows his intent.