The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[reinventmyself]

 

 

 

Quick question though: You know how sometimes people will hit rock bottom and lose something or everything and then realize they need to change. So IF he realized what he lost and was ready to commit and make the changes (please just this once humor me and believe that our trust and connection was as I've stated, just for the sake of this question), how would I know?? Since I refuse to answer the phone. Would he know that the thing to do would be to drive up here and show me? I know I shouldn't take him back under any circumstances, but if he completely changed his ways and fully committed, I still would at this point. That would mean living in the same place, no other girls or dating sites, no periods of withdrawal. Full commitment.

Trust me. . If he had an epiphany, you will be the first to know.

He would be on your doorstep with his 12 step book under his arm and begging your forgiveness.

After all he's promised you on a weekly basis he was coming to get you, right?

But he never did show up and I doubt he will.

 

I had a moment with an ex bf, who after we broke up he contacted me months later. I was confused and happy to hear from him, but not sure if I would return to everything I knew about him, about us. I had some time to think about it.

 

I had this epiphany while putting groceries in my car, when I slammed the trunk closed I surprised myself as I said out loud `If I was so important to him he wouldn't have risked losing me in the first place' In that moment I was angry.

 

All the confusion went away and I had my answer.

 

This guy has given you a lifetime of reasons to leave and not enough to even consider answering the phone.

Keep it that way.

[lostlove76]

Okay. Thanks. I just want to feel at peace knowing that if he did have a major epiphany, he would/could find some way to let me know since I'm not answering the phone. I would hate to miss out on something profound he wanted to say just because I refuse to answer. But he's the one who screwed everything up, so if he wants to fix it, he'll have to figure out a way. And then it would be my choice from there. It's possible that as time goes on, I'll reach a point where I wouldn't even consider taking him back no matter what he did. Like what you felt about your ex months later - very possible that I'll reach that point as well. At the moment, I still love him and remember all the good things.

[reinventmyself]

Okay. I would hate to miss out on something profound he wanted to say just because I refuse to answer. .

 

Unfortunately his words have absolutely no value any more.

They are just empty words.

 

Noise.

 

So you could wait to `hear' something if you like.

 

But in this case you shouldn't accept anything less than 'action'

 

And even if he were to `act' on it, he's still not given any you reason to trust or believe he can hold himself to it. . whatever it is.

[lostlove76]

Unfortunately his words have absolutely no value any more.

They are just empty words.

 

Noise.

 

So you could wait to `hear' something if you like.

 

But in this case you shouldn't accept anything less than 'action'

 

And even if he were to `act' on it, he's still not given any you reason to trust or believe he can hold himself to it. . whatever it is.

 

Okay, good point!! ACTION.

 

I do hope he understands why I'm not answering the phone. I did tell him very clearly ahead of time what the deal was.

 

And think of alllll the times he didn't answer my texts or calls, and that was for no reason at all other than his own selfishness.

 

I guess I'm trying to talk myself out of feeling guilty. It's just a very mild feeling, though, I'm not stewing in it.

[reinventmyself]

Okay, good point!! ACTION.

 

I do hope he understands why I'm not answering the phone. I did tell him very clearly ahead of time what the deal was.

 

And think of alllll the times he didn't answer my texts or calls, and that was for no reason at all other than his own selfishness.

 

I guess I'm trying to talk myself out of feeling guilty. It's just a very mild feeling, though, I'm not stewing in it.

 

 

He knows why. . Come on! And you know it.

The guilt you are feeling is the only angle you have that will give you the permission to pick up that phone. That angle likely won't work much longer.

 

You've asked him to treat you with minimal decency. You gave him two hundred chances and you told him that you were willing to do the right thing by taking care of yourself if he let you down once again. (and again and again)

You have nothing to feel guilty about.

He does.

Displaced guilt.

If you take it all on, then he doesn't have to.

Interesting how that works.

[lostlove76]

The guilt you are feeling is the only angle you have that will give you the permission to pick up that phone.

No no no! I promise that's not what it is. It's the opposite - I guess I'm looking for "permission" NOT to answer. I just have these lingering feelings that I'm letting something go that could potentially work, or that I'm being mean, or that I didn't really have good enough reason to quit talking to him, etc. All of which are feelings that I could certainly talk myself out of, and that's all they are, just feelings. Just little doubts in the back of my mind. I really don't want to answer at this point. BUT would hate for my not answering to screw up any chance of something great with him in the future if he changes.

 

Displaced guilt.

If you take it all on, then he doesn't have to.

Interesting how that works.

Yes that is interesting. Hmm. You're saying he wants me to take on all the guilt? Or I'm wanting to? Not sure I understand...

 

You have nothing to feel guilty about.

He does.

Gosh you're so right. He SHOULD feel guilty. I'm the type of person who feels guilty about everything, I guess. It's what I do. I need to stop that. He did some horrible horrible things, so yes, he should feel guilty. I did give him plenty of chances.

 

Thanks reinventmyself. Sometimes I just need a bit of a reality check. Appreciate it

[Realitynut]

My ex-fiancé, who after cheating on me....then I wrote to him and said, "don't ever talk to me again.....then added a 'list' of all the good things we did'....lol...then HE called crying. He said he 'thought we could get back together again.....soon...just didn't know 'when'. That's because they were going to Jamaica the next month....and he didn't want to miss out on THAT!

 

2 days after they got back (she paid for the whole trip..all inclusive) he dumped her for me. Showed me the rough draft letter...and her letter that she wrote back to him. ) But then he went back to seeing her....and it ended with us again...4 months later...for good.

 

You see...he MIGHT miss you. He MIGHT come get you. He might. But the damage is DONE! He could never sustain a romantic, trustworthy relationship.

 

Alcohol is his NUMBER ONE choice.

 

Remember??? He doesn't even TALK to you when he's sober.

 

Remember that.

 

Does that sound like love to you??

 

My ex (tom) is back in my life. For how long? Who the hell knows. He says I'm the only woman he has ever missed. So he equates that to love. ugh.

 

But yesterday I was feeling down and unloved. We were on the phone. He knew I needed a hug. HE said...i'm leaving work. Be there soon. He took his lunch break (he usually walks for an hour) and rushed to my house to give me a hug, and tell me he loved me. He said there was a meeting and work....and he got out of there fast. lol

 

But the point is...he knew he needed me...and he came. First time ever for that.

 

Of course, he knows I wanted him to go kayaking with me this past weekend...and he didn't. He had to mow his lawn. I thought he didn't have his priorities straight. ME...being the number #1 priority. But what's past is past. He's trying. But I am very cautious...and my feelings of love have REALLY diminished.

 

Ok....the reason i'm telling you this is. He CAME. He knew I was needing a hug....and he left work to give me one. It was an ACTION...not just pretty words.

[Realitynut]

LostLove....go back and read those posts that you were gonna save to review....reread....to give you clarity when you were feeling like you 'were at fault'.....

 

Remember? It was only a few days ago. Reread that one I sent a few days ago...and everyone's since then.

 

You keep conveniently forgetting....thinking if ONLY I answered the phone...MAYBE he had something important to say.

 

yep. I miss you. I love you. Same ole' same ole'

[reinventmyself]

Probably one, if not the most important lessons I have learned in life is . . To accept people as they are. Not how you wish them to be, hope they will be or what they promise they can be.

 

To open your eyes and accept EXACTLY what it is standing right in front of you. It's one thing to say it, it's another to actually do it.

 

I can still catch myself waiting for something and when I do catch myself, I know I am off track and need to get back in line.

 

You will save yourself a lifetime of heart ache and it's probably the most compassionate thing you can give to another person.

Acceptance.

 

He isn't the man you hope he'll be and he's shown you by example he isn't going to be.

Acceptance.

[reinventmyself]

Okay. Thanks. I just want to feel at peace knowing that if he did have a major epiphany, he would/could find some way to let me know since I'm not answering the phone. I would hate to miss out on something profound he wanted to say just because I refuse to answer. But he's the one who screwed everything up, so if he wants to fix it, he'll have to figure out a way. And then it would be my choice from there. It's possible that as time goes on, I'll reach a point where I wouldn't even consider taking him back no matter what he did. Like what you felt about your ex months later - very possible that I'll reach that point as well. At the moment, I still love him and remember all the good things.

 

 

The only way to the other side of this is working on your self esteem.

 

Focusing all this energy on him is a waste.

 

Putting that very energy into yourself is the only thing that will change things. And in doing so you won't settle for a unavailable alcoholic.

You'll believe you deserve much, much better.

I know it's early in the game but you need to start the process of turning the attention off of him and putting that valuable energy into yourself.

The only thing you have any control over is yourself. Once you accept this things start to get easier. You let go of the death grip you have on this dysfunctional relationship and allowing it to define yourself worth.

[lostlove76]

On phone so can't quote.

 

RN, mine said the same thing to me - I'm the only person he's ever missed. He also said that's how he knows he loves me! Weird how yours and mine said the exact same thing.

I totally see your point about the action. Great example, thanks.

So things seem like they could work with Tom? Seems like he's doing the right things. I totally understand your diminished feelings of love. I think they could come back if he treats you right. I think we bury our feelings to some extent out of self-protection but the feelings are still there. Wouldn't that be wonderful if he keeps being good to you and y'all could really have something. I would love that for you! Of course you're right to feel cautious.

I do need to go back and reread those posts - I took screenshots, so I'll do that after I eat.

 

Reinventmyself, I accept him as he is EXCEPT for his womanizing ways and such. Seems like that's something that someone could easily change. Just make a decision and do it. Just make a decision to commit and act like a decent boyfriend, and do it. But I guess it goes deeper than that. There are reasons why he acts the way he does. I don't know. I'll have to think further on that, about how much of oneself someone is capable of changing. I have a tendency to be selfish and self-centered in many ways, and I have to catch myself and realize I'm being that way and make the effort not to be. It's hard, but it's doable, as long as I remain self-aware.

 

I totally get your last post. You're right. I've had some really down and rough days, but I'm starting to have days where I do feel a little better and a little less bogged down in him. Like today. So I think maybe I'll be okay and will soon be able to focus more on myself.

[lostlove76]

Just one more thing. Something I was just talking to my mom about. He could technically move back here if he decided he can't live without me and feels like it wouldn't work for me to move there (small room and job situations and such). He doesn't HAVE to live down there. He loves the beach and the bars and the atmosphere and his new friends and his lifestyle. So I can't see him leaving. But he COULD. He could find a job here and be closer, and then we wouldn't even have to live together if he's not ready for that, because we would be close enough to see each other often. I had told him that he was choosing that place over me, and he said no he wasn't because I could be there too. Well he didn't allow that to happen, so yes he did choose that place over me. He would have to sacrifice a lot to leave there and come back here, but it would be entirely doable, right?

 

He won't do it. I'm just pointing out to myself that if he really really can't live without me, and I'm unwilling to continue on as things were, then he could find some way to fix the situation.

[reinventmyself]

Reinventmyself, I accept him as he is EXCEPT for his womanizing ways and such.

 

So aside from the womanizing, you accept that he is someone that has proven to you that you cannot count on him and you accept that he is not a man of his word?

[boltnrun]

Yes, he COULD find a way. But, as you pointed out, he has chosen not to.

 

You also mentioned that he should know it would take him doing something big for you to reconsider. But I don't think he does know. He's doing the exact same things that worked before (texting "hey" got you back less than two weeks ago!), so he figures since they've worked for two years, why wouldn't they work now?

 

My ex STILL tries to use the same things he used on me when we were together, and we broke up SEVEN years ago! He doesn't understand that since I don't love him anymore, the guilt trips and "poor me" behavior, trying to make me jealous, threatening to harm himself, insisting he loves me, or lying about not being with his girlfriend just don't work! But he's stuck on those things because they used to succeed. He lacks the awareness that if circumstances change, you can't keep doing the same things and expect the results you used to get.

 

And I think your ex believes that all he has to do is keep calling and/or texting "hey" and you'll cave sooner or later. Because you ALWAYS did before.

 

How long was the longest you've gone previously without answering his calls? And what motivated you to take him back? Did he do some big, grand gesture to get you back before, or did you just give in because you "missed" him?

[lostlove76]

Bolt:

See, that's what I worry about. That he doesn't really know what he should do, even if he really really wants it. What you're saying makes sense. Like how would he know? 1) he's doing what worked before, like you say, and/or 2) he may figure I hate him and never want to hear from him again no matter what and he'll give up, or think I found someone else.

 

Should I tell him in some way? Text something next time he calls like, look, I told you I couldn't continue on how things were. If in the future you decide you can't live without what we had, then come up here and we'll talk about it.

 

I don't want to have to do that. But how else will he know?

 

To answer your question....

When I've been mad and he's kept calling and calling, I think the most I went was like a week of not answering, and usually somewhere in that week I would send texts after not answering the phone, reminding him what the problem was, or just being hateful and angry. That's when he's kept trying to call. So this period of time beats the others in terms of length and total silence, but just barely so far.

 

Then there were two different occasions in the past when he DIDN'T try to call.

1) over a year ago when he was being so noncommittal and I went through his phone while he was asleep, I got super-pissed and told him off and said I never wanted to hear from him again. 3 weeks later he called saying he'd had an epiphany, he didn't want anyone but me, agreed to be exclusive, and we started the 6 months before he moved. He became okay with the words "relationship" and "boyfriend/girlfriend." We put ourselves as in a relationship on Facebook. And as far as I know, he didn't do any kind of cheating or flirting during those 6 months. So he really really stepped it up in a big way from before.

2) After he moved, I told him it was all or nothing. Either I move there to be with him, or we couldn't talk. He said it was best to move on (he has since claimed that he didn't think he would miss me - typical avoidant). He texted four days later that he missed me and I reminded him of what I had said, and then it was 6 weeks of no calls at all until he called saying he loves me and misses me and move there, and that started this 5-month period of long-distance.

[lostlove76]

Oh and just to add:

During these past 5 months when I wouldn't answer the phone (there were so many many times this happened), he used to text things like he loved me or he was sorry or he was an idiot. One time he texted "I really thought we had something. Oh well I'll move on" (and then proceeded to keep calling). Another time, "Sorry you're so stubborn. Oh well your loss." Passive-aggressive things like that. So he would text actual words that gave some indication of what he was thinking. And it made me more likely to answer the phone, but he wouldn't know that. Now he just calls after texting "hey" doesn't work.

 

ETA: also, he used to call like 5, 10, 20 times in a row when I wouldn't answer. One night he called over 20 times, all night long, over and over again. When he did that, it made me eventually start feeling really mean to be ignoring him, so the next time he called I was more likely to answer. Because he was trying so hard, calling so much.

[reinventmyself]

""Should I tell him in some way? Text something next time he calls like, look, I told you I couldn't continue on how things were. If in the future you decide you can't live without what we had, then come up here and we'll talk about it. ""

 

""After he moved, I told him it was all or nothing. Either I move there to be with him, or we couldn't talk. He said it was best to move on (he has since claimed that he didn't think he would miss me ""

 

You're contradicting yourself.

You start rationalizing reasons why he doesn't know . . and only a few lines further down you quote yourself telling him exactly what the terms are/were.

 

Then to top is off his response to your terms were for you two to `move on'

 

The goal here is for you catch yourself when you do this. Not to have us do it for you.

It's called being accountable. . to yourself.

[boltnrun]

NO NO NO NO!!!

 

Do NOT text him giving him instructions on how to get you back!

 

If you're going to do that, then forget all this ignoring his calls and just take him back now.

 

You know he's not going to "change", he's not going to come get you, he's going to keep breaking promises, he's going to keep kissing other women, he's going to keep trolling the dating sites. But if you still want him back despite all that, just call him and tell him you want to stay in the relationship.

 

He's a big boy. If he chooses to keep doing the same things because you've always allowed it, that's on him.

 

But if you just can't stand going without his phone calls, then I guess just let him know all is forgiven. If all it takes is him telling you what you want to hear without actually following through, then all of this has been pointless.

[lostlove76]

No no! I'm not going to take him back as things were. If he drove up here and showed me he was serious, THEN I could maybe believe it. Yes, I would love for him to do that. I do love the guy. I just want him to treat me better, and prove that it's going to happen. It's just a question of would he know to do that, and you two are saying opposite things I think. And I can see both - that yes he would know, or no he wouldn't know. He could just as easily decide he's bugging me and better leave me be, even if he wanted to make the changes.

 

I don't mean to sound pathetic. I'm not taking him back as things were. But yes I wish he would step it up and fully commit, and then I probably would, because we're otherwise so good together and fit in so many ways.

[boltnrun]

Also, didn't you already tell him? Didn't you say "Come get me on Wednesday or we're through" and he chose NOT to come get you and didn't even call you on that day?

 

So you want to give him YET ANOTHER chance?

 

What is your goal in all of this?

[boltnrun]

I think a relatively intelligent person would think "well, she told me if I didn't come get her on Wednesday we're through. And I didn't, and now she won't answer the phone. Texting "hey" didn't work like it did last time. Maybe if I just keep trying it will eventually work just like it did every other time. However, I really, really want her to answer the phone, so maybe I need to try something different."

 

It all depends on him and how important he feels you are to him.

 

I don't recall if I wrote this before, but he COULD text you saying "Hey, I am driving out there this Wednesday. I'll be heading out at "X" time. If you don't want me to come, text me back and tell me no. Otherwise, I'll be there around "X" time and I hope you'll agree to see me."

 

But that would be only if he realizes his usual tactics aren't going to work this time. And I'm not sure how long it will take for him to figure out that simply calling and saying "wow, I realize I DO miss you!" won't be enough.

[lostlove76]

I backtracked because you said he probably wouldn't know, given that simply calling a lot has worked previously. So I started thinking yeah, how/why would he know to do something different? I thought you were saying that he would NOT know that he needs to show through action. Didn't you say that? Or did I misunderstand? No worries! Just explaining why I backtracked.

 

But you're saying that eventually he will realize that the same thing isn't working, and that he could then figure out he needs to do something different? He's a highly intelligent person, but guys can also be completely clueless emotionally and in relationships.

[reinventmyself]

But you're saying that eventually he will realize that the same thing isn't working, and that he could then figure out he needs to do something different? He's a highly intelligent person, but guys can also be completely clueless emotionally and in relationships.

 

No one here could possibly anticipate what he can or can not do . .or is willing to do. No crystal balls here.

Based on the information you already have, you get to come to a conclusion.

[lostlove76]

No one here could possibly anticipate what he can or can not do . .or is willing to do. No crystal balls here.

Based on the information you already have, you get to come to a conclusion.

 

I know. Was just wondering what y'all thought.

[reinventmyself]

I know. Was just wondering what y'all thought.

 

I am afraid to respond to your question because you tend to read between the lines and find something to justify holding onto.

I don't want to feel anyway responsible.