The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[boltnrun]

I got the timeline all mixed up in that last paragraph, about when he called. I've totally lost track. It was actually Sunday night the last time we talked, I sent him that text Monday, he tried calling Tuesday, and nothing since then. He started getting on the dating site a ton starting Thursday night, and a lot this weekend while he was working.

 

Interesting that you say he couldn't call you on Fridays and Saturdays because he works but he has plenty of time to go on the dating site...

[boltnrun]

We met mid-summer of 2014 when he was living here, and for six weeks we were together every other day/night and talked/texted on the off days. I got insecure and broke up with him, we didn't see each other for two months. Saw each other every other day for a few weeks after that, then another two months apart as he was working out of town. Then from Dec 2014 to March 2015 we saw each other a couple times a week on average, until I dropped him for his lack of commitment. Got back together in May (I think) of 2015 and spent the next 6 months solid together, every other day/night almost without fail except for a couple of small pullbacks and times when he went out of town. And every time we were together, it always started in the evening and we stayed up all night together (many many hours), and then fell asleep together.

 

This is where I got the timeline. You said "mid-summer", which I didn't take to mean June. Also, the "solid six months" included "pullbacks"according to what you wrote quoted above. Again, not trying to not pick but just pointing it out.

 

What was his reason for moving 4 hours away if things were going so well?

[lostlove76]

Oh, I meant mid-summer to mean June. So technically we ended for good 1 year and 11 months after meeting, buts it's easier to just say 2 years! During the 6 months, his pullbacks were 4 days at the most, and that was only a few times (including one beach trip and one lake trip. We saw each other pretty much every other day like clockwork. During the small pullbacks, I'm pretty sure he got freaked out at how close we were getting. As for moving, gosh that sucked. He had been saying since I met him that he would be moving one day. He's always wanted to move back to the beach and work in the industry in which he got his degree. The whole 6 months he kept saying to go with him when he moved. At one point he applied for jobs here, and interviewed but didn't get the job. Then he started looking in the town where he now lives, and got one. He was still saying all the way up until he actually got offered a job to go with him. Then he got the job, we were together one more time, and three days later he was gone and starting the new job without me. He has since said that he didn't think he would miss me. He says he's never missed anymore before, so he just didn't think he would, but then he did. He's always moved around his whole life, switching jobs and living situations. Typical commitment-phobe. It killed me when he left.

 

He used to call me on Fridays and Saturdays. He would get drunk before he went in and we would talk til he had to leave, then would call again after he got there. This stopped one weekend when he had to go in sober. He won't call me sober. He says he doesn't talk to anyone sober. So either he started going in sober, or it just became a new pattern not to call those days. He's VERY pattern-based, almost to a strange degree. Like the whole every-other-day thing. He stuck to it like clockwork for a long long time, until he finally started calling two days in a row a couple/few months ago. I said something to him about it one time, and he said he didn't realize it. Really? How could you not realize that you called every other day, almost without fail (except for his freaked-out pullbacks when we got too close). He's very much a loner. He said he only talked to his best friend like once every six months. He talked to his mom a few times a week, but that was with her calling every day and him not answering unless he felt like it. I've seen comments on his Facebook page from years ago where really close friends of his were asking where he had disappeared to. It's just how he is, and I tried not to take it personally, but obviously it bothered me tremendously not to talk every day.

[lostlove76]

I should add that the reason he moved when he did was because he was living at his parents house by himself while they traveled for 6 months. A month before the were to return, he started putting in serious effort to find a new job and place to live. He said he had to get his life in order and grow up, basically. He didn't want to live there when his parents got home, and he left 2 days after they returned. Before they went away, he was living with them some (which he haaaated because he had to hide his drinking) or in hotels. That was during the time when he wasn't seeing me but once or twice a week on average. He says he was in a bad place, unhappy with himself and in life.

 

So he went down there with the intention of growing up and being responsible, and he is, to the extent that he's working his job full time and has his own place. But his drinking got 3x worse because of the atmosphere and all the bars down there.

[annie24]

I guess that's the life he wants to live. Drinking as much as he can and having a job that lets him. Is that what you find attractive?

[lostlove76]

I guess that's the life he wants to live. Drinking as much as he can and having a job that lets him. Is that what you find attractive?

 

No. He was different here. He was an introverted homebody like myself. He rarely went out, just drank at home, did his own thing. That's what I found attractive, because we matched in that regard. All our evenings were spent sitting on the deck talking, listening to music, just the two of us. I miss that so much Now he's got a hundred new friends and he goes to the bars every night, because they're within walking distance and he doesn't have to drive. His current lifestyle, I don't find attractive, no.

[ThatwasThen]

You can take comfort in all the enabling dialogue you receive LL but the bottom line, the truth of the matter is that you need to take a break from talking about him so that this venue doesn't become your latest addiction. It's well known that when we give up one bad habit (your association with an alcoholic non-committer) we (the general we) usually take up another one so why not make your next habit/addiction an healthy one that will more quickly get to the stage of indifference to him rather then keep him forefront in your thoughts?

 

Read that book and, if you're serious about conquering your codependency then you'll take a gander at the following links to help you understand a bit more about what's been going on. Did you take a walk and get some fresh air today before logging on to your journal?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[annie24]

No. He was different here. He was an introverted homebody like myself. He rarely went out, just drank at home, did his own thing. That's what I found attractive, because we matched in that regard. All our evenings were spent sitting on the deck talking, listening to music, just the two of us. I miss that so much Now he's got a hundred new friends and he goes to the bars every night, because they're within walking distance and he doesn't have to drive. His current lifestyle, I don't find attractive, no.

 

Drinking was his priority then as it is now. Now he doesn't have to hide it, like he did with his parents. Especially if he works in an atmosphere where everyone is drinking, it is ok.

 

Lots of men enjoy sitting on the deck talking and listening to music. Go find one of them!!!

[lostlove76]

You can take comfort in all the enabling dialogue you receive LL but the bottom line, the truth of the matter is that you need to take a break from talking about him so that this venue doesn't become your latest addiction. It's well known that when we give up one bad habit (your association with an alcoholic non-committer) we (the general we) usually take up another one so why not make your next habit/addiction an healthy one that will more quickly get to the stage of indifference to him rather then keep him forefront in your thoughts?

 

Read that book and, if you're serious about conquering your codependency then you'll take a gander at the following links to help you understand a bit more about what's been going on. Did you take a walk and get some fresh air today before logging on to your journal?

 

Thanks for the links. I gave a couple of the shorter ones a quick read, and they really do describe me/us to a tee. I bookmarked all the links and will read them all some time soon.

 

I worked today for a couple of hours, which is outside and involves nature. Yesterday I was there for six hours. Some days are busier than others.

 

Part of me feels like once I quit talking about him and thinking about him, he's gone forever. I wasn't REALLY ready to let him go forever. I just knew that I had to, so I finally took the plunge and did it - and it looks like it's sticking. I never wanted him out of my life; I just knew I couldn't handle him being only partially in it. Well now he's gone from my life, but not yet from my mind and heart. I figure it will wear off with time. I get what you're saying. But this venue isn't an addiction for me, nor will it become one. I just come here when I need the support, or to update, or need help figuring things out. He's at the forefront of my thoughts anyway, still at this point, no matter what I'm doing. Like I said earlier, it's only been a week since we last talked.

[lostlove76]

Drinking was his priority then as it is now. Now he doesn't have to hide it, like he did with his parents. Especially if he works in an atmosphere where everyone is drinking, it is ok.

 

Lots of men enjoy sitting on the deck talking and listening to music. Go find one of them!!!

 

Everyone who lives there is a drunk, according to him, so he's in his element.

 

I hope I can one day find another fellow deck-sitter. I feel right now like no one will ever compare to him. But maybe one day.

[Silverbirch]

Everyone who lives there is a drunk, according to him, so he's in his element.

 

I hope I can one day find another fellow deck-sitter. I feel right now like no one will ever compare to him. But maybe one day.

 

LL, they do exist. I'm not sure how common it is as I haven't set out to meet men for a long time, but just this year, two came into my life without effort on my part. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't be with either just yet as I really need to be getting my own act together so I don't repeat this process again and end up with yet another unavailable man. I've got to sort out other stuff in my life as well such as work and health.

[lostlove76]

LL, they do exist. I'm not sure how common it is as I haven't set out to meet men for a long time, but just this year, two came into my life without effort on my part. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't be with either just yet as I really need to be getting my own act together so I don't repeat this process again and end up with yet another unavailable man. I've got to sort out other stuff in my life as well such as work and health.

 

I feel the same way, Silverbirch. I can't even imagine being interested in anyone if they did come along; but if I did happen to be interested, my life is such a mess that I can't imagine they would stick around for long. It almost sounds as if you and I are now the emotionally unavailable ones

[Silverbirch]

I feel the same way, Silverbirch. I can't even imagine being interested in anyone if they did come along; but if I did happen to be interested, my life is such a mess that I can't imagine they would stick around for long. It almost sounds as if you and I are now the emotionally unavailable ones

 

 

Well, for now we are, but it needn't stay that way. I've started working on other areas of my life, and in time, I know I will be happy with or without a relationship.

[Silverbirch]

LL, I am staying with family this week. I was reminded of my aunt who was widowed a couple of years ago. Her husband treated her very badly despite her being a wonderful wife. When she was 70, she remarried. So far, she has had 6 very happy years. They only recently sold his convertible MG as they think they are getting a bit old for it now. Apparently when they first started dating, he would roll up in his MG and the neighbours would come out for a look!

[boltnrun]

I'm beginning to understand why you "don't mind" his drinking. He only calls you when he's drunk! He says all those nice things to you when he's drunk! Of course you want him to stay drunk!

 

Of course, when he's drunk he also kisses other women, goes on dating sites and tells you lies.

 

And SO typical of an addict to blame others for their substance abuse. Oh, he drinks because EVERYONE there is a drunk! How ridiculous! No way is there a place anywhere on the planet where EVERYONE is a drunk.

 

Has it occurred to you that he moved there deliberately so he could have more opportunity to use his substance of choice?

 

And I'll tell you, I live in what has to be one of the top three partyingest cities in the world. LOTS of people come here to party and get drunk. But no way is EVERYONE here a drunk. Yes, there are more opportunities to indulge here than there are just about anywhere else. And I have a friend who has zero self control and somehow finds himself pulling into the parking lot of a casino instead of heading to work. Of course he blames the casinos for existing. But I drive past them every single day and don't feel even the slightest bit of temptation to pull in there and start wasting my money. And so do thousands of other people. These men (your ex and my friend) indulge because they're addicts and that's what addicts do.

 

But again, you want him to stay drunk because when he's drunk he's nice to you. I do hope you realize him staying drunk will result in a multitude of health issues that could end up with him dying the way my grandfather did...from a liver that slowly and painfully gave out because it couldn't handle the amount of alcohol he was pouring into it.

 

If you love this man, why would you want him to continue the behavior that will most likely end up with him dying painfully, way too young?

 

Anyway, enough about him...do you want your life to stay a mess? Or are you willing to do something to change that? Remember, it just takes one small step to get going on the road to the life you want. I think it was Dr. Martin Luther King who said to focus on one stair at a time, not the entire staircase.

[lostlove76]

Silverbirch, that's a nice story... I guess it's never too late then huh

 

Bolt: Of course I wouldn't wish illness or death on him. I would support him in a decision to quit drinking, and I've told him that many times. But you're right about why I "don't mind" the drinking. He's the sweetest, most lovable, most fun, funiest, most adorable guy on the planet when he's drunk! And he doesn't talk to me when he's sober (for the most part. I've been around him while sober in the past). So yeah, I prefer the drunk version. It doesn't matter anymore, however, since I have neither version in my life. But he's going to drink whether I'm with him or not with him, talking to him or not talking to him. I don't know if he knew when he moved there that it was such an alcohol-fueled town, but maybe he did. On a side note, I told him he chose living there over me. And he said he didn't choose, because I could be there too. Well that never happened, did it! He also said one time that he kind of hated to bring me down there because everyone is an alcoholic and it's easy to get sucked in. From what he says about the people and the place, it does seem there is a higher percentage of drunks than usual (it's a small town).

 

As for small steps, well, I'm going to be working a little more the next week or two. I imagine that as times goes on and I feel less depressed, I'll start doing more. I know I'm supposed to do things anyways, because it's supposed to help with the depression apparently, but it doesn't really help. I have very little interest in anything at all right now. Anything I do is with half-hearted energy. But like I keep saying, it's only been a week since we last talked.

[boltnrun]

Are you worried that if he quits drinking, he'll also quit talking to you? Because if he now only talks to you when he's drunk...

 

Kind of reminds me of Delta Burke and Gerald McRaney. She lost weight and became even more beautiful (she was already stunning before the weight loss). After she'd lost the weight, Gerald (her husband) bought her a room full of chocolate for her birthday! And she said he was always bringing home donuts and cake and urging her to eat them. Oprah Winfrey confronted him on her show and asked why it seemed like he was trying to undermine Delta's efforts to stay slender. He said "Well, she likes chocolate! I was trying to make her happy!" Truth was, he felt threatened by his newly slim wife. Other men might now find her attractive and he was afraid of losing her.

 

Not exactly the same thing, but still, do you think he'd stop calling you if he got sober?

 

It must be difficult, though...you like him drunk because he calls you and says nice things, but he also kisses other women, goes on dating sites and tells you lies and breaks promises.

 

Also, I find it interesting that you think he doesn't remember that he told you he kisses lots of women because he was drunk, but you believe him when he tells you he loves you when he's drunk. Either he knows what he's saying or he doesn't.

 

And yeah, I BET there's a "high percentage of drunks" in the crowd he chooses to hang out in! I'm sure I could find a "high percentage" of gambling addicts if I hung out in a casino.

 

Anyway, yes, at first you WILL have to force yourself to go out and do things. The working outside thing is excellent. Maybe ask your parents to invite you to go with them when they run errands or go for dinner. Anything is better than sitting in your room with your phone in your hand, alternatively looking at the phone screen and checking the dating site on your computer.

[ThatwasThen]

Thanks for the links. I gave a couple of the shorter ones a quick read, and they really do describe me/us to a tee. I bookmarked all the links and will read them all some time soon.

 

I worked today for a couple of hours, which is outside and involves nature. Yesterday I was there for six hours. Some days are busier than others.

 

Part of me feels like once I quit talking about him and thinking about him, he's gone forever. I wasn't REALLY ready to let him go forever. I just knew that I had to, so I finally took the plunge and did it - and it looks like it's sticking. I never wanted him out of my life; I just knew I couldn't handle him being only partially in it. Well now he's gone from my life, but not yet from my mind and heart. I figure it will wear off with time. I get what you're saying. But this venue isn't an addiction for me, nor will it become one. I just come here when I need the support, or to update, or need help figuring things out. He's at the forefront of my thoughts anyway, still at this point, no matter what I'm doing. Like I said earlier, it's only been a week since we last talked.

That's cool, LL. I just felt you would do well to start some *me* work to help you to more quickly get to the stage of indifference to him. When you are taking care of yourself and making attempts to be the best you that yo can be, he won't seem so important anymore.

 

Cheers.

[lostlove76]

Anything is better than sitting in your room with your phone in your hand, alternatively looking at the phone screen and checking the dating site on your computer.

Haha, you know me too well.

 

Are you worried that if he quits drinking, he'll also quit talking to you? Because if he now only talks to you when he's drunk...

That thought has definitely occurred to me, yes. I completely get the Delta Burke story, because I've seen similar stories on Dr. Phil. People sabotaging their partner's success because they felt threatened by it. I even felt threatened when he applied for a certain job here in town last summer, because I thought everything would change. No more up-all-night drinking together, he'd have more responsibility, be meeting new people, etc. I was worried about it, but I wished him good luck on the interview and showed support. If we were together and he quit drinking, everything would change. Drinking makes him looser, and strangely enough, I feel looser when he's drunk, too! The drunker he is, the more comfortable I feel expressing myself and my thoughts (and I don't mean ME being drunk, I mean HIM being drunk even if I'm sober - still makes me feel looser). Weird, huh? I guess when he's closed off I'm closed off, and when he's loose I'm loose. So if he wasn't drinking, even if he did keep talking to me, we would both be quiet and a bit shut down.

 

Also, I find it interesting that you think he doesn't remember that he told you he kisses lots of women because he was drunk, but you believe him when he tells you he loves you when he's drunk. Either he knows what he's saying or he doesn't.

Well, since he told me he loves me 20-30 times per phone conversation, almost every single phone conversation, I believed he meant it. It wasn't a one-time thing he said that he would have forgotten. He always said the same things over and over - that he's in love with me, we're soulmates, etc. He seemed to remember the "marry me" comments, because when I brought them up next conversation he didn't seem surprised at all, he just repeated it again ("Will you marry me!?"). I don't know what all he remembers. There've been plenty of times when I was being pissy with him and apologized for it the next day and he said he didn't remember. There have been times when he didn't remember 5 minutes after having said something. So I just didn't know if he remembered telling me about that girl, so I made sure to tell him about it in my text. I've read that blackouts are caused by memories not being formed; they know what they're doing and saying at the time (for the most part; I'm sure there are exceptions, when they're completely beyond wasted), but no memory of it is formed to hold on to, hence the blackout.

 

And yeah, I BET there's a "high percentage of drunks" in the crowd he chooses to hang out in! I'm sure I could find a "high percentage" of gambling addicts if I hung out in a casino.

Yep, this is true! He says also, though, that everyone in his building is a drunk. I'm sure he could be exaggerating, or maybe he's not, who knows. I'm sure he's looking through a filter and seeing what he wants to see, to some extent. But I also think that there's some truth to it, and that there really are a lot of drunks down there.

[lostlove76]

That's cool, LL. I just felt you would do well to start some *me* work to help you to more quickly get to the stage of indifference to him. When you are taking care of yourself and making attempts to be the best you that yo can be, he won't seem so important anymore.

 

Cheers.

 

Thanks ThatwasThen. I understand what you're saying. I think I'm afraid to reach the indifference stage just yet. It feels to me like once that happens, he is gone completely, and what we had meant nothing. I know that's not entirely rational thinking, I'm just telling you what it feels like. He's been such a huge part of my life for so long that it feels sad to let it go. But I will have to pretty soon, and I guess indifference is definitely the goal, and the only way out of the pain.

[boltnrun]

You know, Lost...it's absolutely incredible the stubbornness and tenacity with which you defend this man and your insistence that yours is a true love relationship and that you know he really does love you, and your strong connection to one another that you know you can't get anywhere else.

 

If you applied that same tenacity to making changes in your life so that it is what you'd like it to be, you'd be unstoppable. You could move mountains.

[lostlove76]

You know, Lost...it's absolutely incredible the stubbornness and tenacity with which you defend this man and your insistence that yours is a true love relationship and that you know he really does love you, and your strong connection to one another that you know you can't get anywhere else.

 

I will always defend it, because I know how it was. No one else could possibly know. You all know tons of details, but no one was there with us, and no one knows him. If you could see/hear our interactions, you would know.

 

If you applied that same tenacity to making changes in your life so that it is what you'd like it to be, you'd be unstoppable. You could move mountains

 

I appreciate your belief in me, but I think my problem is that I don't have, and have never had, any direction. I see work as a necessary evil. I don't like engaging with people any more than is entirely necessary. I have hobbies and interests, but what do those really mean in the grand scheme of life? To me, relationships are what bring true meaning to one's life. I don't want lots of relationships with lots of different people. I keep my circle very very small. But that one true love - that's what matters to me, and that's what makes the rest of life worthwhile. That's what brings happiness. That's just my ingrained view of life, and always has been. So I guess I'm kind of lost without it.

[annie24]

I will always defend it, because I know how it was. No one else could possibly know. You all know tons of details, but no one was there with us, and no one knows him. If you could see/hear our interactions, you would know.

 

 

 

I appreciate your belief in me, but I think my problem is that I don't have, and have never had, any direction. I see work as a necessary evil. I don't like engaging with people any more than is entirely necessary. I have hobbies and interests, but what do those really mean in the grand scheme of life? To me, relationships are what bring true meaning to one's life. I don't want lots of relationships with lots of different people. I keep my circle very very small. But that one true love - that's what matters to me, and that's what makes the rest of life worthwhile. That's what brings happiness. That's just my ingrained view of life, and always has been. So I guess I'm kind of lost without it.

 

If I may give you some suggestion as to a direction..... try to get on your feet and get your life together. Save up money, move into your own apartment, get a stable full-time job, start a savings and retirement account. Become an adult. I hope that doesn't sound too mean. I kind of get the sense that you haven't grown up into a full adult and I think you need to do that. I've dated a few guys who hadn't grown up and become responsible men and it is super frustrating. I think maybe it's not as difficult for men to date women who haven't grown up, but when I meet a guy who is in his 30s/40s, still lives with his parents, has no car, no full time job, it's like, NEXT!!! Not that I'm perfect. I have plenty of issues myself, but I'm looking for a guy who has his life somewhat together as well. You're talking about true love with your absentee, alcoholic ex-bf who is living the party life.... but don't you eventually want to build a real life with a man, in person? who loves being with you when he's sober?? I think having meaningful relationships is extremely important, so make sure to invest your time with a man who is making a real investment in YOU.

[JohnnyFranks]

I obviously didn't read 55 pages of this, but if we are up to page 55 and you still havn't moved to be with him yet - I don't think you ever will.

[lostlove76]

Annie, that's not mean at all, and is very good advice. You're completely right that I haven't grown into a full adult. I rely very heavily on my parents for a lot of things, and the rest, I've just convinced myself that I don't really need. Becoming more an "adult" seems so scary to me. Maybe I don't trust myself to handle it. Or maybe I just feel like I would be miserable working a full-time job. I mean, I know I would be miserable. I know there are other people like me out there (who don't love being around other people, prefer to be at home, etc) who have to just suck it up and do it anyway. I'm fortunate to have my parents, but I won't always, and that's scary. So I think I bury my head in the sand.

 

I do feel like most guys wouldn't want someone who isn't self-sufficient. You say men wouldn't care as much, and I hope that's true, but I don't know if it is. I feel like me and this guy were on the same wavelength. He's far ahead of me in life in many regards. He can easily take care of himself. But emotionally, we're kind of in the same place. I've never judged him for it, and I never felt judged by him. However, if it wasn't just an excuse, he did say that the main issue with me coming there is what would I do for a job. I do think he was concerned about that. And rightfully so, I guess.

 

Not to change the subject, but I'm not as depressed today. I miss him though. I wonder if the reason I'm feeling semi-okay is because I'm expecting that there might be a chance of him trying to call tonight. It would be his usual night if we hadn't ended. So I know I'm going to be waiting for it, and it's going to be a huge let-down if he doesn't, because reality will set in again that he's moving on. Most likely he's forgotten all about me by now, don't you think? As I've said a million times, I won't answer if he calls, but if would make me feel better to know that he cared enough to at least try.