The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[annie24]

I know this will sound mean, but you lost an alcoholic phone buddy. That's it. It's not like he was taking you on dates or spending time in person or sleeping with you. I know you care for him and are attached.... But he hasn't been there for you in real life...

[lostlove76]

I know this will sound mean, but you lost an alcoholic phone buddy. That's it. It's not like he was taking you on dates or spending time in person or sleeping with you. I know you care for him and are attached.... But he hasn't been there for you in real life...

 

Everyone forgets that we have a history, with tons of in-person time, and an emotional connection that was built over the past two years. I won't even get into the love part of it again. So I'm losing that, and I'm losing the dream in my head of what he kept promising was going to happen, that we would be together for the rest of our lives. So really, it's a lot more to give up than just a phone buddy. But maybe that's how I should look at it - he's been phone-only for the past however many months, so yeah.

[annie24]

I know you guys have a history.... but the last 7 months, it's been phone buddies. It's not been in person. You haven't even hugged him in over 7 months.

[thejigsup]

You guys don't have love. Love is kind. It treats people with respect. It would never purposefully hurt someone. Love is gentle, love is patient. Love is support and understanding. You guys do not have love. You have co-dependency. Until both of you get into some counseling, neither of you will be able to have a healthy, truly loving, relationship with anyone. Including yourselves.

[ThatwasThen]

How is this journal helping you? You are still so much in denial. What steps have you taken to learn about and come to terms with your codependency?

[lostlove76]

The journal is helping me work out my thoughts, the support is helping me when I feel alone, and the feedback is helping me understand relationships better. After being in this with him for 2 years, I barely know what "normal" is. I don't have time to answer the question more thoroughly, maybe later.

[ThatwasThen]

But you are not doing anything to help the underlying problem that keeps you mired in your addiction to him which means that you will more likely then not, end up in yet another dysfunctional relationship when you finally accept that you really should knock this guy off the pedestal you have him on and you've rehabbed from your addiction to him.

 

What reading on codependency have you started?

[lostlove76]

Honestly, I forgot all about reading about codependency. Like someone said a bit earlier (sorry, I forget who off the top of my head), I have tons of information flying at me here. I really just want to heal from this, and then I can do the hard work on myself. I at least need a week or two, AT LEAST, of NC before I start stressing out about "fixing" myself. It's all I can do right now to get through each day.

 

I won't be jumping into any other relationships any time soon, so that is a nonissue. I imagine it will be a long long time before I'm even interested in anyone else. And I have a lot of work to do on myself before that happens.

[lostlove76]

But maybe reading about it would help me heal my feelings? I don't know. I have a book - Codependency No More. I'm working all weekend, but maybe later in the week I should give it a look. Thanks for the reminder. This really does feel like an addiction that I have to him. Like I'm going through withdrawals and everything.

[notalady]

You have a lot of actions you can take to begin to understand your addiction to him and to begin to move on, it's all part of the moving on process, but you condition them with "I can't do this until I've moved on", like I can't block him until I've moved on a bit, I won't start reading on my issues until I've had at least a week or two of NC, while you refuse to go NC (by blocking). So what CAN you do to begin the moving on process then? You seem to have no actionable item in that column.

 

Or you actually just don't want to start doing anything to help you move on and just want to sit here and wallow and continue to spend your days wishing he'd just come back and be the man you want him to be.

[Realitynut]

It's called....still having HOPE.

 

Hugs Lost Love.

 

Jigs...I wish I could make a big poster of what you have written....and tape it to my bathroom mirror. I've thought those thoughts many times...but yet I go back.

So who's the bigger fool? The one who keeps taking the abuse...that's who.

[Realitynut]

As I have said before.....this is HER journal (and who ever else makes a journal) and she can write/feel/say what ever she wants.

 

That is why I made a private journal...cuz I knew I'd be judged for not backing up 'do what I say'.....not what I do, type of advice...lol

 

Yes...Lost Love is mired down in her feelings. And not just in her feelings for this unavailable, addicted, lying guy. But she's mired down in her anxiety, and her unwillingness to let go.

 

I understand. Her head knows what to do...her heart isn't ready yet.

 

In my 20's I went to a counselor. I was living with a drunk. She told me...you will KNOW when you want to GET OUT.

And I did. Unfortunately, LostLove's anxiety and fear she won't attract anyone 'better' is keeping her 'stuck'. She's coming to us for help....as a sounding board. Even tho we aren't saying what she wants to hear....or she thinks we don't 'understand'....that is her prerogative! We are not here to judge. Some are stronger than others. Have stronger boundaries. Have stronger self-worth. We are NOT all the same.

[lostlove76]

THANK YOU, Realitynut!! I won't say anything, since you said it all so well. Big hugs to you.

[ThatwasThen]

As I have said before.....this is HER journal (and who ever else makes a journal) and she can write/feel/say what ever she wants.

No disrespect intended ~ she can write/feel/say what ever she wants but by doesn't negate the fact that by journaling about HIM she is keeping HIM the focus. That's not helping her get over him. Nor is enabling dialogue.

 

My post may paint me black to the both of you but the fact remains This is just fueling her addiction. That's the reality. Journal on but be cognizant of the fact that by doing so, you are keeping him constantly in your mind when getting him out of there should be the goal because surely, you don't want to be stagnated in this pain for any longer then you have to be?

 

I will add that codependents have to find a therapist that is proficient in codependency, otherwise, you will just get enabling dialogue and, even become codependent upon the therapist.

[Realitynut]

She knows that. We know that. Until SHE is ready to ACT on that....there is nothing we can say or do...but to give her our opinions...our thoughts...and hope that she can come to that realization sometime soon! She is just STARTING to try to come to grips with this realizations that her relationship ain't what she thought it was....

 

edit: and even tho I know LostLove feels she can't afford a therapist, there are some that will work with your income. I went to one that charged me only 10 bucks an hour...and I went weekly. She does need a therapist....and to realize that alcoholism is NOT a GOOD thing! I was reading a book today about the 'emotionally unavailable man'...and it said, the man the will never be emotionally available is an addict. Because that will always be his #1 focus.

 

HUGS

[ThatwasThen]

She knows that. We know that. Until SHE is ready to ACT on that....there is nothing we can say or do...but to give her our opinions...our thoughts...and hope that she can come to that realization sometime soon! She is just STARTING to try to come to grips with this realizations that her relationship ain't what she thought it was....

 

I'm not arguing that. I'm just advising her that journaling about him every single minute she has free is keeping her mired in thoughts of him. I don't think she considered that at all and it's why I brought it to her attention.

[Realitynut]

Yes...true. Lost Love needs to get out and breath FRESH AIR! Go for a walk....think about what it would feel like being in a relationship with a guy who is walking beside you. Not one that you have been putting your life on hold WAITING for him to walk beside you.

 

He LEFT because he WANTED TOO.

HE hasn't come and retrieved you....BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TOO!

 

These are the facts. Read them. Believe them.

[thejigsup]

She just has to come to the point where she realizes SHE is the prize. I didn't get there until I was in my late 20s. One of my friends told me, "You're smart, you're nice, you're cute, you're accomplished, but you keep choosing these loser men. Why?" I suddenly realized I didn't trust myself to be able to attract a good man. My dad was an alcoholic and my mom was an enabler, that was my blueprint for relationships. The light bulb went on in my head and I started to become the lady that would drop you in a heartbeat if you messed up. From there, I progressed to the woman who would only date worthy men. It took awhile, but I made it. I had happy, healthy, fulfilling, and long lasting relationships. I'm not looking now because my fiance died some years ago and I don't think I can improve on that man. BUT, if one comes along who is worth my time, I'll for sure give him a chance. Remember, with relationships, they should make both of you feel GOOD.

[Silverbirch]

Really nice post Jig. I agree with RNS sentiments. I can understand how difficult this is for LostLove as I have been struggling with similar. I've read some helpful info. OP, I just want to add that there is a site online which goes through that book you have and how people can apply the steps to help recover. It's early days for me, but I'm feeling improved most of the time.

[boltnrun]

Meh, I have no problem with the focus of the journal being the way it is right now. I think it's helpful to get different points of view and maybe even helping to change a thought process.

 

Instead of obsessing on how to get him back or how to "get" him to step up, maybe you can start focusing on how to make a great life that doesn't have room for a man like him. Once your life is full, you won't have patience for a man who's philosophy is to give as little as possible so HE doesn't have to be inconvenienced.

 

I know some people wrote that he most likely will not have another lasting relationship. I know you leapt on those comments because it makes you feel better to think he'll never have anyone who loves him the way you do, or who he loves the way you believe he loves you. But I disagree. Some people are adept at finding others whose sense of self is not secure, who have self-esteem issues and who think they aren't worthy of someone who gives more.

 

My ex dumped me for a woman who he is still with today, and it's been seven years. She accepts his behavior because she is just like him. She can't find better quality men because she herself feels she is of low quality and projects that outward. She accepts his cheating, his lies and his abuse because she believes (like he does) that theirs is a great love that can't be found anywhere else. They are both damaged individuals and they bond over their mutual damage.

 

Is it healthy? No way. Would I want that? Not anymore.

 

And your ex can find another woman who is damaged and who feels she needs to accept his behavior because she can't find anyone better.

 

How many women stay in awful relationships because they believe there's "nothing else out there"?

 

Yes, I know the relationship wasn't always awful. But you ARE rewriting history when you say you had two wonderful years together. You two met less than two years ago (according to your timeline it was August 2014) and spent a large portion of the time since then being off and on. Not to mention the seven months since you last laid eyes on each other. Maybe you had a few wonderful weeks together, but it wasn't two years. And I'm not trying to nit pick, but just pointing out that you seem to have a habit of seeing things the way you'd like them to be instead of how they actually are.

 

Anyway, I say journal on. If it helps you to finally walk away from what has turned out to be a dead-end non-relationship, then it's all good.

[thejigsup]

Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner! Great post, boltnrun.

[lostlove76]

You two met less than two years ago (according to your timeline it was August 2014) and spent a large portion of the time since then being off and on. Not to mention the seven months since you last laid eyes on each other. Maybe you had a few wonderful weeks together, but it wasn't two years.

 

We met June 2014! And it wasn't a few weeks together. We spent 6 solid months together before he moved, plus the first month and a half after we met we were together all the time, and sporadically between those two periods. Sorry, just had to correct.

 

Anyways, hey to all. I had a long day and I'm not quite settled down for the night, but I'll get on in a little bit and read everything and reply. I've only had time to scan most of it, and that timeline just jumped out at me and I thought I would go ahead and clarify, since it's a quick fact. I'll be back.

[lostlove76]

You guys don't have love. Love is kind. It treats people with respect. It would never purposefully hurt someone. Love is gentle, love is patient. Love is support and understanding. You guys do not have love. You have co-dependency. Until both of you get into some counseling, neither of you will be able to have a healthy, truly loving, relationship with anyone. Including yourselves.

Jig: Unfortunately, I wasn't always kind or respectful either. I did purposely try to hurt him, way too many times. I loved him deeply, but I was horrible to him sometimes; I said horrible horrible things. I don't think I would have ever done much of that if I hadn't been driven to such hurt and frustration, but I still did it. Yet I still loved him. But I agree with you that love should be all those things you named. I need to learn to control my own hurtfulness as much as he does.

 

Her head knows what to do...her heart isn't ready yet.

Realitynut: Exactly.

 

I'm just advising her that journaling about him every single minute she has free is keeping her mired in thoughts of him. I don't think she considered that at all and it's why I brought it to her attention.

ThatWasThen: I don't mind things being brought to my attention. I just hate to feel judged, because I'll start having to watch what I say, and I won't feel "safe" here. This is supposed to be a safe place of support, right? I like that I can type out my every crazy thought and get some rational feedback on it. It helps. And if I'm thinking about him all the time anyway, then I might as well write what I'm thinking. It gets it out of my head and allows me to make better sense of it all. I'm sure this need to talk/think about him all the time will wear off with time. It's only been less than a week since we had that last awful conversation. But having said all that, I'm not upset with you or anything.

 

think about what it would feel like being in a relationship with a guy who is walking beside you. Not one that you have been putting your life on hold WAITING for him to walk beside you.

Realitynut: That would be nice, wouldn't it?

 

I'm not looking now because my fiance died some years ago and I don't think I can improve on that man. BUT, if one comes along who is worth my time, I'll for sure give him a chance. Remember, with relationships, they should make both of you feel GOOD.

Jig: So sorry to hear about your loss. I hope you do find love with a good man again.

 

Really nice post Jig. I agree with RNS sentiments. I can understand how difficult this is for LostLove as I have been struggling with similar. I've read some helpful info. OP, I just want to add that there is a site online which goes through that book you have and how people can apply the steps to help recover. It's early days for me, but I'm feeling improved most of the time.

Silverbirch: Thanks for your continued compassion

 

I'll do the rest in a separate post, this one is getting long.

[lostlove76]

Once your life is full, you won't have patience for a man who's philosophy is to give as little as possible so HE doesn't have to be inconvenienced.

bolt: Ugh, that's exactly what he was doing. Such a selfish jerk he is in that regard.

 

Meh, I have no problem with the focus of the journal being the way it is right now. I think it's helpful to get different points of view and maybe even helping to change a thought process.

 

Anyway, I say journal on. If it helps you to finally walk away from what has turned out to be a dead-end non-relationship, then it's all good.

bolt: Thanks so much for saying this.

 

I know some people wrote that he most likely will not have another lasting relationship. I know you leapt on those comments because it makes you feel better to think he'll never have anyone who loves him the way you do, or who he loves the way you believe he loves you. But I disagree. Some people are adept at finding others whose sense of self is not secure, who have self-esteem issues and who think they aren't worthy of someone who gives more.

 

My ex dumped me for a woman who he is still with today, and it's been seven years. She accepts his behavior because she is just like him. She can't find better quality men because she herself feels she is of low quality and projects that outward. She accepts his cheating, his lies and his abuse because she believes (like he does) that theirs is a great love that can't be found anywhere else. They are both damaged individuals and they bond over their mutual damage.

 

Is it healthy? No way. Would I want that? Not anymore.

 

And your ex can find another woman who is damaged and who feels she needs to accept his behavior because she can't find anyone better.

 

How many women stay in awful relationships because they believe there's "nothing else out there"?

This is what scares me. I hate the thought of him connecting with someone else, because our bond felt so special. He's still ALL OVER the dating site, on there a ton since this past weekend. He wasted zero time in trying to find a replacement, and that hurts. I've done this before, during a couple of our breaks. I got on dating sites and talked to a bunch of different guys. All it did was make me miss him even more. So I'm hoping that's what will happen with him. He said that the girls who talked to him at the bar would always end up saying something stupid, and it made him miss me more, because we have good conversations. I just want him to miss me. Of course I do - we all want that at the end. And yes, I still have some tiny smidge of hope that he'll realize what he lost and will do something about it. (ETA: I'm not claiming that this is a rational hope to have. It's just how I feel.)

 

So we last talked Sunday and Monday, nothing Tues and Wed, he tried to call Thurs, nothing Fri and Sat (he wouldn't call anyway these days because of his work schedule). So I figure that if he misses me, he'll try tomorrow night (unless his pride keeps him from it). If he doesn't try tomorrow night, then I predict he's not going to try for several weeks, at least. This ending felt pretty final, and I think he probably sensed that as well. And I feel like since he's all over the dating site, it's a good indication that he's given up and moving on - because he knows I will see him on there, and that I won't answer his calls since he's been on.

[lostlove76]

I got the timeline all mixed up in that last paragraph, about when he called. I've totally lost track. It was actually Sunday night the last time we talked, I sent him that text Monday, he tried calling Tuesday, and nothing since then. He started getting on the dating site a ton starting Thursday night, and a lot this weekend while he was working.