The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[reinventmyself]

When though? .

 

It shouldn't matter when

[boltnrun]

So there is literally NOTHING he could do that you wouldn't be willing to overlook if he just showed up at your door.

 

Are you saying when it comes to him you have ZERO boundaries?

[annie24]

When though? After he moved down there and I told him it was all or nothing, or else I needed to move on, and he said might as well move on because we were too far apart - it was then 6 weeks complete NC before he called again, and he was seeing someone else during that time. I feel this time is similar, and it will again be weeks.

 

eh, more reason to block. It's over. nothing will change. Don't wait around for him to call or text or whatever. there's no need to keep torturing yourself.

[lostlove76]

So there is literally NOTHING he could do that you wouldn't be willing to overlook if he just showed up at your door.

 

Are you saying when it comes to him you have ZERO boundaries?

 

I don't even know anymore Cheating has always been THE dealbreaker. So that should be it, right? So what's the problem? I'm trying to minimize it because I don't know exactly what happened. I don't know when this cancer girl thing was. What if it was during one of the many many many many times I told him things were over and I wouldn't answer the phone. Would it still be cheating? And then I'm thinking, did he really tell me he kissed her? I was so mad that I was determined to hear what I was looking to hear. I had said "Did you kiss her?" And I think he said "I've kissed a lot of girls" and I went off on him about it. He's so evasive with his answers that I never know what to believe. Aside from that, it should be enough that he got back on the dating site.

 

However, if he showed up at my front door, and made all that effort to show he cared, I would find it extremely hard to resist. (It's not gonna happen though. There's no way he will ever show up at my door, so this is purely hypothetical.)

[boltnrun]

You know "all that effort" is what most people in love do regularly. I know I told you about my coworker who trades weekends of driving with her fiance who lives 4 hours away. And my friend whose husband makes an 8 hour trek every other weekend. They don't consider those "grand gestures" but just the regular effort they are willing to make for love.

 

But, as you know, this man doesn't even make a minimum effort. So to you it appears like he would be making some grand gesture if he stayed sober enough to drive the 4 hours on his day off to come see you. When you've been getting crumbs, a slice of bread suddenly seems like a buffet.

[lostlove76]

Bolt: You're right, I get your point. Completely. I make too many excuses for him. Maybe I do that because I'm very similar to him in so many ways. I haven't made any effort to go down there either. I haven't looked to see if there are back roads I could handle driving (which there probably aren't). It's so easy to just put things off and never get around to it, due to personal issues. So since I'm that way, maybe I expect less from others. I'm not good at keeping my word either. I probably say I'm going to do things, with good intentions while I'm saying it, and then never even try to follow through. Not the most admirable quality. How can I judge others when I do the same? I always compare his alcoholism to my anxiety; both keep us from doing certain things. But I don't know if I'm just making excuses.

[notalady]

When you've been getting crumbs, a slice of bread suddenly seems like a buffet.

 

This is spot on.

[lostlove76]

Thanks to everyone, btw, for allowing me to vent and work through these thoughts and feelings without judging me. You're all so very patient and kind, and I really appreciate the support.

[lostlove76]

I agree, spot on about the crumbs. I've come to expect so little from him. Ugh.

[boltnrun]

Bolt: You're right, I get your point. Completely. I make too many excuses for him. Maybe I do that because I'm very similar to him in so many ways. I haven't made any effort to go down there either. I haven't looked to see if there are back roads I could handle driving (which there probably aren't). It's so easy to just put things off and never get around to it, due to personal issues. So since I'm that way, maybe I expect less from others. I'm not good at keeping my word either. I probably say I'm going to do things, with good intentions while I'm saying it, and then never even try to follow through. Not the most admirable quality. How can I judge others when I do the same? I always compare his alcoholism to my anxiety; both keep us from doing certain things. But I don't know if I'm just making excuses.

 

But you're not using your anxiety as an excuse to cheat, troll dating sites, lie or break promises.

[lostlove76]

But you're not using your anxiety as an excuse to cheat, troll dating sites, lie or break promises.

 

Very true!!!

 

Why couldn't he just be a good person? Why the need to cheat and lie and mislead. And look for shallow whatevers on a dating site. What's the purpose of all that? It will just never make any sense to me.

[lostlove76]

Very true!!!

 

Why couldn't he just be a good person? Why the need to cheat and lie and mislead. And look for shallow whatevers on a dating site. What's the purpose of all that? It will just never make any sense to me.

 

Quoting my own self here. When I recently brought up how he was a little over a year ago, before he came back exclusive... he apologlized for it (he's apologized many many times btw, for everything he's ever done) and said he "was in a bad place" and didn't know he was going to fall in love with me. The "in a bad place" part would indicate that it's all internal issues, over which I have no control. I just need to accept that. As I've said, he has pretty major self-worth issues, and I guess all his poor behaviors stem from that in some way. Still don't quite understand it!! Because I apparently have some self-worth issues of my own, but I don't go around hooking up and flirting with everyone I cross paths with.

[boltnrun]

Very true!!!

 

Why couldn't he just be a good person? Why the need to cheat and lie and mislead. And look for shallow whatevers on a dating site. What's the purpose of all that? It will just never make any sense to me.

 

Because he knows he can do all that and you'll overlook it as soon as he texts "hey".

 

You've even admitted you'd overlook everything he's done if he just showed up at your door.

 

I doubt he's an unintelligent man, so he's fully aware of your dependency on him and his phone calls.

 

Unfortunately he's using that knowledge to do whatever he wants.

 

And he knows it's just a matter of time (a few days? Six weeks?) until you cave in to "missing" him and he waltzes right back into your life, secure in the knowledge that you'll accept and forgive anything.

[lostlove76]

Because he knows he can do all that and you'll overlook it as soon as he texts "hey".

 

You've even admitted you'd overlook everything he's done if he just showed up at your door.

 

I doubt he's an unintelligent man, so he's fully aware of your dependency on him and his phone calls.

 

Unfortunately he's using that knowledge to do whatever he wants.

 

And he knows it's just a matter of time (a few days? Six weeks?) until you cave in to "missing" him and he waltzes right back into your life, secure in the knowledge that you'll accept and forgive anything.

 

Is there ANYTHING at all that I could have done to make it NOT okay, without walking away? Any way to have made it known that I just wouldn't put up with that? Or is walking away (and losing him) the only way to avoid such a situation?

[boltnrun]

You're asking how to make him behave the way you wish he'd behave. And there's no way to control that.

 

All you can do is state your feelings about his lies, his dating site activity, his cheating and his broken promises. And I don't mean "fussing" at him for a few hours, then giving in. I mean letting him know that his behavior is unacceptable TO YOU, and you will not be in a relationship with him if he chooses to engage in these behaviors.

 

Then, it's up to him whether or not he cares enough to stop.

[lostlove76]

You're asking how to make him behave the way you wish he'd behave. And there's no way to control that.

 

All you can do is state your feelings about his lies, his dating site activity, his cheating and his broken promises. And I don't mean "fussing" at him for a few hours, then giving in. I mean letting him know that his behavior is unacceptable TO YOU, and you will not be in a relationship with him if he chooses to engage in these behaviors.

 

Then, it's up to him whether or not he cares enough to stop.

 

I tried to do that several times. I guess it's just like you say, it got to the point where he knew he could get away with certain things. He would stop for a while - stayed off the dating site for over a month - and soon as he got back on, just the once, things went south in a hurry because I couldn't forgive that. Again, I'm losing track of what happened when, but I think that was like three weeks ago? And we only had maybe 2 good conversations after that. Because I shut down once I saw him back on. So in a way, I didn't put up with it, did I? Because it led to the ultimatum, and then the end.

 

When someone constantly pushes boundaries, what can you do? Aside from leaving, if talking to them doesn't work, like you said. It just all became such a big huge mess. I never meant to let him get away with all this.

 

Just to be perfectly clear, though (sorry... I really really have a hard time with boundaries)... You're saying I should have talked to him about it once, made it known that it was unacceptable and I couldn't be in a relationship with him if he continued, and then the first time he messed up, be completely done and never look back?

[boltnrun]

"Several times" is not you not putting up with it.

 

Every single time you overlooked and took him back proved to him that your boundaries are made of air.

 

And yes, I would have stated my boundaries once. If he CHOSE to continue cheating and lying and trolling dating sites and breaking promises, I would have let him know that I've decided he is not the right one for me, thanks and goodbye.

 

And BTW, he isn't "messing up". He is CHOOSING to do these things, knowing you will forgive him and take him back. Win-win for him, not so much for you.

[lostlove76]

"Several times" is not you not putting up with it.

 

Every single time you overlooked and took him back proved to him that your boundaries are made of air.

 

And yes, I would have stated my boundaries once. If he CHOSE to continue cheating and lying and trolling dating sites and breaking promises, I would have let him know that I've decided he is not the right one for me, thanks and goodbye.

 

And BTW, he isn't "messing up". He is CHOOSING to do these things, knowing you will forgive him and take him back. Win-win for him, not so much for you.

 

What really sucks about that is that there IS no way for me to win. Either I put up with crappy behavior, or I lose him. Both options suck. Maybe I should have done it a long long time ago before I fell in love with him, but he was good in the beginning - spent lots of time together, texted on the days we didn't see each other, several times a day actually. So I was already hooked by the time any red flag arose. But sigh, I don't want to dwell on what happened way back then. I was going off on a tangent again. My point was that between losing him while already in love, and "giving in" to crappy behavior, I'm choosing between the lesser of two evils. I will most certainly remember your advice for any future relationships though!! And I'll get out before I get hooked, at the first sign of trouble.

 

I just happened to start watching a Dr. Phil episode after my last post, and he's talking about not rewarding bad behavior. He said when you reward a behavior, it's likely to repeat, and when you don't reward it, it's likely not to repeat. People do what brings rewards. When things stop working, people come up with new ways to behave. Sooooo, his reward for his bad behavior was getting to do what he wanted, while still being able to talk to me. The fussing obviously didn't bother him too much, or he wouldn't have kept calling. I'm still not convinced that he seeks drama, but maybe you were right that he needs the fussing to feel loved. IF that's the case, then he got rewarded with the fussing. Basically any reaction that showed I cared and loved him and wanted him. For some, any attention is good attention. So cutting him off is the one and only thing that would have worked. And I guess cutting him off for just a few days wasn't enough. For me, forever is too much but that's what all this came down to.

[boltnrun]

Dr. Phil is 100% right.

 

You know, my ex is not exactly Mensa Society material if you know what I mean. But he did have one major insight that I have carried with me. When I "fussed" at him for the umpteenth time about his evasive, shady behavior (i.e., cheating), he told me that he never paid much attention because I kept coming back, so he figured I must like being treated like that.

 

So from now on, any man who treats me disrespectfully, who lies, cheats, says mean things just to hurt me, will not be rewarded with an "I love you". He'll be advised of my boundaries and if he CHOOSES to ignore and continue, I will say my goodbyes.

 

And like I said before, you need to decide if you'd rather have short-term relief from your anxiety (accept his cheating, lies, broken promises, dating site trolling and take him back) or long-term peace of mind.

[lostlove76]

Lol @ Dr. Phil is 100% right. I love me some Dr. Phil. You would think I would have learned a little more about relationships after watching him all these years.

 

Did your ex mean that he thought you LITERALLY liked being treated that way? Like he thought you enjoyed being mistreated? Or was he just making excuses and saying you were willing to put up with it, so he might as well just do what he wants.

[lostlove76]

Just saw your edit/addition. I will be like that from now on, too, with any future guys, now that I know. I hope I'll be strong enough. Knowing and doing are two separate things.

 

You're right about short-term relief vs long-term peace of mind. After we go a few days not talking, I just have this awful dull ache inside, like I have right now. And the only thing that relieves it is talking to him. He's not calling though, so there's no chance of me giving in. I would never initiate any contact. So I just have to live with the ache and hope it one day goes away.

[boltnrun]

No, he concluded that I LIKED it. He couldn't understand why, if someone doesn't like something, they would keep coming back for more. I already knew who he was and what he was about, and yet there I was, telling him "I love you".

 

And really, who could blame him? I TAUGHT him how to treat me!

 

And are you sure this man hasn't concluded the same thing?

 

How many times did you "fuss" at him, then have a romantic, dramatic reconciliation complete with multiple declarations of love? Did you ever tell yourself "Our connection is so strong NOTHING can break it!" Have you ever told yourself you will ALWAYS love him no matter what?

[lostlove76]

In hindsight, knowing that, do you think you could have taught him differently (how to treat you) and he wouldn't have cheated, been shady, etc?

[boltnrun]

In hindsight, knowing that, do you think you could have taught him differently (how to treat you) and he wouldn't have cheated, been shady, etc?

 

No, this is who he is. He still would have done what he did, but instead of hanging around for 4 years I would have ended it two months in. That's why I said what I said before, that I learned to make and keep boundaries so this never happens again.

[lostlove76]

Well I'm proud of you for learning the lesson Hopefully I now have, too.

 

I'm feeling kind of panicky at the moment about losing him. It happens from time to time. Knowing he's moving on feels awful, but I needed to know right? Otherwise I would still be expecting his call.