The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[thejigsup]

Just know that the longer you stay in this mindset and this relationship, the less likely it will ever be that a decent man will be attracted to you. I swear, they can smell women who have let men get away with this kind of crap and they want no part them.

[lostlove76]

Yeah, you'd be surprised though! I've talked at length with a couple guy friends about all of this, and they indicated that they had feelings for me. Well, indicated and straight up told me. Same with several guys I talked to from a dating site a while back (after he moved and we were NC). I didn't lead anyone on - I made it clear where my head and heart were at. You would think it would certainly be a turn off, but apparently it wasn't at all. My guys friends told me they wished a girl would be that loyal to them, and they weren't just being nice in saying that, they meant it. These were mostly nice, decent guys, too.

 

Regardless, I'm not at all interested in finding anyone else any time soon. The thought makes me cringe. I couldn't possible connect with anyone while I'm in this state, until I get over him and get my life in order.

[annie24]

I agree that the story is weird - hot woman with end stage cancer? Then again, he was drunk when he called you so who knows what the real story is. Earlier in the thread, you said he was a functional alcoholic and you were ok with it. But I think here is an example of how his alcoholism is hurting you - promises he can't keep, telling you he loves you and wants to marry you and in the next breath, tells you about another woman he's dating..... This guy is completely unreliable.

[lostlove76]

Yeah, weird, right?!? He didn't say he was dating her btw, just to be clear - he said he met her 3-4 weeks ago and had only seen her three times during that. I asked well where is she right now, and he said he didn't know. So he must not even have her number. It sounded more like he ran into her a few times. BUT, he also said, "You'd think she's pretty too! I'll show you pictures." So what the eff kind of pictures does he have of her? He acted like I should be totally okay with all of this and that it was no big deal. Then he blamed it on being an alcoholic and not knowing what he does while he's drunk. And then like you said, at the same time, he's asking me to marry him and saying he loves me and does want to be with me forever. So yeah, I see your point. He forgets things and he gets confused. I'm wondering if he's somehow confused about this girl. When he first told me about her and then said she has a couple months to live, I said so you have feelings for her, is that what you're trying to tell me? And he said nooo, I feel sorry for her, and you should too! She's dying! I said well why are you saying she's pretty and she's hot, and he said you're hot too! And you'd think she's pretty too! (I'm not bi by any means, he just mean in general I would think she's pretty because apparently she is). Then later in the convo when I was still upset about it, he said he doesn't give an eff about that b$/"&. It's just really hard to get the facts straight when you're talking to someone who is wasted. So again, yeah, I see your point. Let just say IF he didn't mess with any women at all and IF he didn't lead me on with false promises, the alcoholism wouldn't bother me (other than his health and safety). I'm sure that sounds stupid, but I find it hard to judge him when I care about him so much.

[lostlove76]

No call tonight. Will I ever not wait for it, and not care when it doesn't come? I've been waiting for his calls for two years. I guess it really is an addiction. I get a little high, a little rush of "whew, he's thinking of me" when he does call. Why would he call though, when he knows I won't answer. I don't think he avoiding because it's Wednesday, like bolt said, since he won't even remember saying he was coming. Maybe it's just because he usually skips a day when I ignore. I fear he's with someone else, and that's a horrible feeling.

 

These are just the thoughts that go through my head each night. It'll only stop when I truly don't care about him anymore. And really, how long is this going to take?? How long until what he does doesn't affect me at all? I can't make a decision not to care; that doesn't work. It just has to wear off with time I guess.

 

I don't know if my perception changed from feeling like he loves me so much to feeling like he doesn't love me at all. Or if his feelings changed. Ugh.

[notalady]

Not caring takes time, and it starts with having completely no contact with the subject of your "obsession". When someone is out of your life completely and other things and other people start to occupy your life and your mind, that's when you actually start moving on. Until one day you look back and realise you don't care anymore.

 

That's how it always worked for me and I'm sure others on here will share that that's how it worked for them as well.

 

Until you do that, you'll be exactly where you are now no matter how much time has passed.

[missmarple]

Yeah, weird, right?!?

 

You think his behavior is weird but you think it's perfectly normal for someone to believe that a person who lives just 4 hrs away and. yet, hasn't seen them in 7 months...loves them.

 

To me, what's weird in all this..is you. Not his behavior. He gets in touch whenever he feels lonely or doesn't have a date, he throws a few sweet words your way (I love you, I want to marry you, blah, blah), he spends a few hours on the phone and when the phonecall ends, he forgets about you. All the rest (he was drunk, he tried to make me jealous, he's a commitment phobe, I ignored him and that's why he went on the dating site etc, etc) are what you tell yourself to justify why you're still hung up on him.

[notalady]

You think his behavior is weird but you think it's perfectly normal for someone to believe that a person who lives just 4 hrs away and. yet, hasn't seen them in 7 months...loves them.

 

To me, what's weird in all this..is you. Not his behavior. He gets in touch whenever he feels lonely or doesn't have a date, he throws a few sweet words your way (I love you, I want to marry you, blah, blah), he spends a few hours on the phone and when the phonecall ends, he forgets about you. All the rest (he was drunk, he tried to make me jealous, he's a commitment phobe, I ignored him and that's why he went on the dating site etc, etc) are what you tell yourself to justify why you're still hung up on him.

 

MM is spot on.

[LAYAAN]

You think his behavior is weird but you think it's perfectly normal for someone to believe that a person who lives just 4 hrs away and. yet, hasn't seen them in 7 months...loves them.

 

To me, what's weird in all this..is you. Not his behavior. He gets in touch whenever he feels lonely or doesn't have a date, he throws a few sweet words your way (I love you, I want to marry you, blah, blah), he spends a few hours on the phone and when the phonecall ends, he forgets about you. All the rest (he was drunk, he tried to make me jealous, he's a commitment phobe, I ignored him and that's why he went on the dating site etc, etc) are what you tell yourself to justify why you're still hung up on him.

This is EXACTLY what happened between the on-off guy and myself.

[LAYAAN]

Yeah, it's a bit of an ego boost, I won't lie. One of many reasons why it feels good when he calls, I guess. But if I didn't love and want him, I wouldn't care if he called, and getting an ego boost wouldn't matter in the least. It's more just feeling like calling = caring.

 

Thanks for the good wishes. I'm trying to be strong and resist him, I really am. I did it last night. I need my heart to catch up with my head, and at that point, I'll be okay and over this. It's just hard when you truly still love someone, and hate to give up all the good things. I'm trying! Day by day. That's all I can do at this moment in time.

It shouldn't be an ego boost to you to know that a man is throwing you crumbs, never stepping up to the plate. He calls whenever he feels like calling because he knows that he has you and you will answer. Once you have realized who he is, I think the best thing to do is not call him out on his behavior. Instead, you vanish into thin air. No contact of any kind, whatsoever. And this is not because you want to see him suffer without any answers. This is because whatever needed to be said has been said already... and many many times. You have nothing more left to say. You don't want any back and forth. You are truly tired of getting treated this way. You see no hope of a permanent change. There is nothing to hang on for here. So you need to leave.

I will tell you that I was hanging on by the crumbs because initially he was a decent man. (yes, but he changed within 1 month) I had no decent options for marriage (true, but what matters most is that I marry someone who treats me with respect and kindness. His educational qualification, looks really should be secondary. But I placed too much emphasis on things that don't matter much. And whether I have options or not shouldn't matter to him. I never liked/not liked someone based on the options they had.)

The time to get out was the first time he was disrespectful to me. By sticking around and continuing to take the abuse I showed him that I didn't value my time and I didn't value myself enough to be treated with dignity and kindness. When you show that you are ready to take crumbs. That is all you will get and you can't blame him for that. Granted that he is a bad guy. Sure! but you are enabling this behavior and asking for more by staying and taking on the abuse.

My episode went on from start to finish 9 months. He finally dumped me and I'm hurting till this day. Not because he was a bad guy, but I allowed this behavior. I cheapened myself. I behaved like a dog hungry for bone. I taught him to believe that I was so desperate, stupid, lonely, and without options that the only way I would feel I mattered (even though I didn't) was if he threw me crumbs. I can tell you that I would have been several times better off if I had rather interacted with a guy who was sincerely interested in me at that time. This guy has a loving family, a stable job, but he is not good-looking, he is not as educated, he is short, he has lost a few teeth and wears some fake teeth thing that isn't easily noticable either. But I let this kind gentleman go to hold out for Mr. Never available.

Please don't do what I did. Please don't. It is not worth your time and the horrible, disgusting feeling you will have about yourself lateron. Leave now!

[boltnrun]

You're desperately trying to convince yourself that he was lying about kissing the other woman because if he really did...you'd have to admit you are perfectly willing to overlook yet another one of the so-called boundaries you swear you won't cross.

 

You said going on dating sites was a deal breaker. Yet, you took him back. You said cheating was a deal breaker. Yet, here you are, desperately hoping for some "grand gesture" from him so you can pretend he didn't crash through yet another "boundary". How many times did you say "if he doesn't call tonight I'm ending it"...only to go back on it a day or two later?

 

No wonder he ignores your "boundaries". You don't stick to them so why should he? He knows he can do anything at all and you'll be mad for a few days, then he'll send a text that says "hey"and there you are, right back to waiting by the phone for him to get around to calling you.

 

It just seems like no matter what he does you are looking for a way to either justify it or to blame yourself.

 

I know you're not going to let go in a day. But one thing at you need to stop doing is trying to explain away his behavior. He kisses other women behind your back. I seriously doubt you're going around kissing other men! He's cheating. No way around it. And you're way too nice to have to tie yourself to a lying cheater.

[Realitynut]

What everyone is saying here is true LostLove. But I'm just as weak. My ex is out of state....and after being so creepy to me...is now calling and texting. Last night he called back and said...I love you. I'm so lucky you are still talking to me (I said...yes you are) I'm fortunate to have you in my life.

 

That's the most 'romantic' he can get. I tried to rebuttle it....and didn't say anything nice back.....and he said....just take the compliment, I have to get to sleep. lol

 

He's gone all week for a class. He always is in love with me....when he's half way across the country...and won't have to 'see' me, and act on those words of love.

 

The other time he 'loved' me, was when I was thousands of miles away...one time for a month...another for 10 days. My gf says he always loves me, when we're apart.

 

Other times he loves me??? When he thinks I'm getting interested in another guy. Then he pulls me back in.....and doesn't want to lose me.

 

Times that he DOESN'T love me? After he's had sex...and the next day I'm standing in front of him.

 

Anything ring a bell?

[reinventmyself]

You touched on being addicted and this is exactly how you need to treat this. His addiction is alcohol and yours is him.

How you do you break an addiction? By abstaining. You go through painful withdrawals that get worse before they begin to get better.

You resist contact much like he would resist taking another drink.

 

You ask what would it take for him to change? The only thing I know for sure is it would take him . . YEARS. A life long commitment actually.

Besides he needs to want to get sober and it appears he doesn't. So you would need to accept him as he is.

 

At least you are showing signs of wanting to break your addiction. At least that's a start.

First step. . resist rationalizing his behavior and making excuses for it.

[lostlove76]

Thanks everybody. Points taken. I was doing a little better day before yesterday. My friend even said she was surprised at how okay I seemed. Then last evening I started feeling worse again, and last night around the time he normally would have called, I just crashed again. And today I'm feeling pretty low. I have this feeling he was probably with someone last night, and I can't help but feel sad and bothered at the thought. I have no way of knowing what he was doing, but that's how it feels (like he was with someone). No one seems to understand the connection that we had, and it makes me feel like everything with him was a lie and all made up in my head. But that's not how it was. I won't go into convincing-mode again. I know what we had. It's not a case of it never being true; it's a case of we had it and now it's gone. He was trying to be good for a while there. He was calling way more, staying off the dating site. I guess he just couldn't sustain it, and everything went south all of a sudden. I do blame myself for some of that, because I pushed him away so hard. But he really just isn't a good guy. He's a cheater. He can try to be good for a while, but it doesn't stick, because being a cheater is who he is. He's cheated on everyone he's ever been with. It's not just ME. It's not because I let him walk all over me. He's just a cheater, period.

 

I was just talking to my dad about whether or not he ever really loved me. My dad believes he did, my mom believes he did, my best friend (who I no longer talk to, but that's another story) always believed that he did. So I just don't get why all of you are so adamant that he didn't. I don't know why it bothers me so much. But it does.

 

I still don't plan on talking to him anymore. He'll eventually quit calling, if he hasn't already. I really don't think there's any danger at all at this point of me going back to the way things were with him. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't. I couldn't believe a word out of his mouth at this point. Too much damage has been done. And I don't think we could go back to the love talk like before - I've always had a hard time telling him I love him while I was mad and hurt. He'd have to say it 30 times before I could even manage to half-heartedly say it back at all. And without the love talk, we have have nothing. I will never be just his friend. What we had is destroyed, and there's no getting it back. Now I just have to get over the pain, and get over my feelings for him.

[annie24]

I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't think he loves you for 2 reasons: 1) his actions do not back up his words, and 2) he has alcohol issues and cannot truly love someone until he stops drinking and gets sober. I'm not hopeful of him changing anytime soon.

[reinventmyself]

I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't think he loves you for 2 reasons: 1) his actions do not back up his words, and 2) he has alcohol issues and cannot truly love someone until he stops drinking and gets sober. I'm not hopeful of him changing anytime soon.

 

I have an ex bf who drinks. (I didn't fully realize it at the time) He often thinks we are soul mates and should be together. There is some truth to that. We do have a great connection. HOWEVER I can't imagine getting involved with someone who is for the most part `altered'.

I would feel cheated, after all I showed up.

 

You are not engaging the real person but a person in an altered state. You honestly don't know what you have until that person is sober and has spent years dealing with why they were medicating themselves to begin with.

 

Faced with everything they've been avoiding while medicated, they won't likely won't even look the same sober.

Not to mention the years of emotional development they've missed out on while being altered.

 

I can go on and on.

 

My firm belief is you cannot have a relationship with an addicted person. Not in a true sense.

[annie24]

I have an ex bf who drinks. (I didn't fully realize it at the time) He often thinks we are soul mates and should be together. There is some truth to that. We do have a great connection. HOWEVER I can't imagine getting involved with someone who is for the most part `altered'.

 

You are not engaging the real person but a person in an altered state. You honestly don't know what you have until that person is sober and has spent years dealing with why they were medicating themselves to begin with. Faced with everything they've been avoiding they won't likely won't even look the same sober. Not to mention the years of emotional development they've missed out on while being altered. I can go on and on.

 

My firm belief is you cannot have a relationship with an addicted person. Not in a true sense.

 

my aunt is a psychiatrist who specializes in addictions. She tells me that the #1 love of an addict is their drug. Their mother is a distant second, and no one else makes the list.

[lostlove76]

I have an ex bf who drinks. (I didn't fully realize it at the time) He often thinks we are soul mates and should be together. There is some truth to that. We do have a great connection. HOWEVER I can't imagine getting involved with someone who is for the most part `altered'.

 

You are not engaging the real person but a person in an altered state. You honestly don't know what you have until that person is sober and has spent years dealing with why they were medicating themselves to begin with.

 

Faced with everything they've been avoiding they won't likely won't even look the same sober.

Not to mention the years of emotional development they've missed out on while being altered.

 

I can go on and on.

 

My firm belief is you cannot have a relationship with an addicted person. Not in a true sense.

 

Mine has said many many times that we're soulmates, and I also believe it to be true. The connection is there. Just like you're saying about your ex.

 

I think everyone gets the alcoholism thing but me. Even HE gets it. I asked last conversation why he does these things, and he said because he's an alcoholic and doesn't know what he's doing when he's drunk. I took it as just an excuse.

 

The only time he's not drunk (and by drunk I mean absolutely wasted) is when he's at work. He's gotten worse since he moved there - I guess because of all the bars and the atmosphere; everyone who lives there is a drunk, he says. Every now and then he takes a day off from drinking, but I don't know how often. I guess I felt like this IS his true self, rather than the sober version, since he's always drunk. I know how that sounds. I know it should bother me. The reason it's never bothered me is because when he's drunk, he's suuuuuuuuper sweet and loving, and smart and engaging and fun and interesting.

"You honestly don't know what you have until that person is sober and has spent years dealing with why they were medicating themselves to begin with. Not to mention the years of emotional development they've missed out on while being altered."

Yep. It's all just very sad. He will never quit drinking. He's said he needs help, but he's also said he'll never quit and it'll be what kills him. So this is who he is, for the rest of his life.

[lostlove76]

my aunt is a psychiatrist who specializes in addictions. She tells me that the #1 love of an addict is their drug. Their mother is a distant second, and no one else makes the list.

 

That just reminds me of when he told me he loves his parents and me, and he doesn't give an eff about anyone or anything else (except drinking, of course). I know he meant it at the time, but the connection is now broken, what we had is destroyed, and so it's no longer true. I never asked him to quit, or made him choose between drinking and me, or made him feel bad about it. He could have kept his first love, and had me as well. But he decided he'd rather have quick flings with anyone else he can find. His loss, right?

[reinventmyself]

Mine always told me everything I ever wanted to hear. . when he was drinking.

I was always onto him though. I would see him sober. . silence, distance. No action behind the words.

Don't confuse liquid courage with love.

[reinventmyself]

I think everyone gets the alcoholism thing but me. Even HE gets it. I asked last conversation why he does these things, and he said because he's an alcoholic and doesn't know what he's doing when he's drunk. I took it as just an excuse.

 

It's about time you start educating yourself. My guess is you may not want to know the truth because you might actually have to do something about it.

[reinventmyself]

I think this relationship has served a purpose for you. After all people do `what works'

If you weren't getting something out of it then you wouldn't be doing it.

Certainly not for this long of a period of time.

 

I recall in an earlier thread you admitted if he actually came for you, you didn't think you would be able to go with him anyway.

But you haven't mentioned that little fact lately. Why is that?

 

So his inability to commit works for you somehow. You don't have to risk anything or make changes.

You get to stay intact with your surroundings that serve your anxiety. I get anxiety is a b****. . .because I have it.

 

So my question to you is why fight something that has worked so well for you up 'til now?

 

The very thing you have all this angst over is the very thing you don't want in the end.

You do see the insanity in all of this, don't you?

[lostlove76]

I think this relationship has served a purpose for you. After all people do `what works'

If you weren't getting something out of it then you wouldn't be doing it.

Certainly not for this long of a period of time.

 

I recall in an earlier thread you admitted if he actually came for you, you didn't think you would be able to go with him anyway.

But you haven't mentioned that little fact lately. Why is that?

 

So his inability to commit works for you somehow. You don't have to risk anything or make changes.

You get to stay intact with your surroundings that serve your anxiety. I get anxiety is a b****. . .because I have it.

 

So my question to you is why fight something that has worked so well for you up 'til now?

 

The very thing you have all this angst over is the very thing you don't want in the end.

You do see the insanity in all of this, don't you?

 

Hmm, good food for thought. They say that those who are involved with "active" commitment-phobes are usually "passive" commitment-phobes. So maybe I am. I don't commit well to anything else in my life. And I've never had a relationship last over a year, aside from this two years on/off with him; most were 6 months or less.

 

I recall in an earlier thread you admitted if he actually came for you, you didn't think you would be able to go with him anyway.

But you haven't mentioned that little fact lately. Why is that?

 

I DO want HIM, this I know for SURE. What I didn't want was leaving here and living there, for all kinds of reasons. I was going to do it anyway, or at least try it, so that I could be with him. But I don't think I would be happy there (other than being with him). It's not my kind of place. There were only two things about it that I would like, and a whole list of things I wouldn't like. And my anxiety would probably be awful, without my support system and comfort zone like I have here. When I was thinking it might happen, I was thinking that maybe forcing myself out of my comfort zone would be a good thing, and that it might actually turn out well, if I just faced the fears and did it. I thought he could get me a job (like he told me over and over again that he could, only to later tell me he didn't want me working with him), so I thought it would be a good transition back into the work force, kind of a guaranteed job without having to deal with interviews and such.

 

I really did want to be with him, and I would have committed myself to him for life, I really would have. It seems safe to say that, given that he wouldn't fully commit, but I know the way I felt about him, and I know he was who I wanted. I don't know what it is about him, but it's something. Like I said, I haven't stuck with anyone else this long, ever, and it's never been this difficult trying to get over someone and move on. I lived with a boyfriend for six months, together for a year, back in my mid-20's. I loved him. He's one of the only ones who came anywhere close to what I feel for this current guy. And yet things weren't working, and I pushed for a breakup, and he moved back home. We only talked once after that. And I was a little bit sad, but I got over it pretty quickly. I've always had a hard time detaching from crushes/flings/whatever, but when I say a hard time, I mean I felt it intensely for a short period of time and then not at all. This one has just been a NIGHTMARE to try to move on from.

 

Sorry, went off on a tangent.

[ragdoll15]

I'm willing to bet the reason why the other guys were easier to move on from was because the minute it was over, it was very clearly over. They probably didn't call you again or got your hopes up. But this guy seriously keeps reeling you back in and you take the bait...

 

I'm really sad that this is happening to you and I get sadder when I read your thoughts about him. You seem like you don't even want to get over him. Even though he's killing you. Very very slowly. He's seriously poisoning you inside out. And I'm watching you stand there, and you don't even want to turn around and walk away.

 

And I don't understand why.

 

And I feel like, until YOU can understand why you're choosing abuse over your own health and sanity, you're going to keep standing there willingly letting him drain the life out of you...

 

Is that what you want?

 

Don't you think you deserve better? Even if you're alone, don't you think you can be happier than this? I mean, this guy isn't going to lift you up, he's not going to make you a better version of you, and he doesn't even inspire you to want to become a better version of you around him because you admitted that you're not willing to drive to him or move to him. If you stay with him you'll always be the same person, in this perpetual loop of stagnation.

 

The only thing holding you back from growing into a more whole person is HIM. And it really pains me that you don't have enough faith in yourself to know that you are capable of far more than this. If I could just take control of you, just for one night, I would burn your phone and buy you a new one with a new number. I would cut off your internet for a month. He deserves the swiftest kick in the behind and I kind of wish he would die in a ditch somewhere. He's the lowest human being on earth.

[lostlove76]

Thanks for caring, ragdoll

 

It does feel like he's been killing me, over and over again, for the past two years. I've even told him that very thing. You're probably right about why I was able to get over the other guys and not this one. It's all just very confusing when someone tells you in one breath about some other girl and in the next breath asks you to marry him. And that's just one example of a thousand to show how much he messes with my head. I know I should be stronger and should have walked away a long time ago. But as I've said before, his good is sooo good, and that's why I've hung on.

 

But I did decide to drop him, and so far I've followed through and stuck with it. My thoughts and feelings are still very back and forth, but I didn't answer last time he called. When I answered the phone on Sunday night, I also had no intention of letting things go back to the way they were. I answered because I wanted to hear what he had to say. I was hoping he would say he was sorry and would do better and all that, but I wasn't going to give right in, if at all. So basically I have stuck to dropping him since he failed to follow through with the ultimatum.

 

I'm having a really bad day. Maybe tomorrow will be better.