The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[annie24]

That just tells me he doesn't respect you enough to let you sleep through the night. I'm also worried that you seem to be waiting on him. You already know he's on dating sites and is seeing the hot woman with cancer. What do you need to let go?

[lostlove76]

I think time and distance are all that will help, like you say. I can't flip a switch and quit caring. I agree that if I was 100% ready to move forward, it wouldn't matter to me what he does or thinks or feels. But I'm not there yet. I'm not going to feel bad about myself for that - I have enough to feel bad about already. All I can do is take it as it comes and hope that I do soon gain true clarity. I still love him, so all my thoughts and emotions get confused and go back and forth. I think that is to be expected.

 

I honestly don't know how long it will take to get over him. I've heard half the time you were with someone, in which case I would be looking at a year to fully heal. I hope to god that's not how long it will take.

[boltnrun]

And really..."hey"?????

 

After all that's happened, this is what he comes up with?

 

Lazy, arrogant, self-centered...

[lostlove76]

Bolt and Annie, I was typing in reply to reinventyourself before I read yours, sorry. I'm not concerned about the time he was calling. I know it would seem that it's disrespectful, but he knows I stay up all night. I've told him a million times I can't sleep. Which I can't. It's usually daylight before I fall asleep. And every time we talked, we talked til after the sun came up. I was never staying up just for him. I was awake anyway. I love being up all night, and I loved talking all night. So he would have no reason to think it was a bad time to call. Also, he apologized before for calling late and I always told him no worries.

[lostlove76]

And really..."hey"?????

 

After all that's happened, this is what he comes up with?

 

Lazy, arrogant, self-centered...

 

I agree! I feel like if he has something to say (such as SORRY) then he can text me those words. With his "hey" he was testing the waters to see if I was going to answer.

[annie24]

It would help you heal if you blocked him.....

[lostlove76]

I think it helps me heal more to ignore than to block. Like I said, it makes me feel like I'm regaining my dignity a little bit, and it makes me feel stronger to know that I was able to ignore. If it becomes a problem, I will block him. Or when I get to the point where I'm 1000% okay with never talking to him again for the rest of my life, then I will block him. Just not there yet.

[annie24]

I get that you're a night owl.... Still... Like the others said... "Hey" is lame. Anything short of "I'm coming to see you today" is too little.

[lostlove76]

I agree!! Completely. He needs to say more than "hey." I wouldn't answer if he said he was sorry, but I would still like to hear it. Anything would be better than hey.

[lostlove76]

"Hey" is what he texted last time when we talked (Sunday night). I said hey back and he asked what I was doing then said he'd had a long week. Then asked if I wanted to talk. And it was a nightmare of a conversation, so I'm not falling for "hey" again.

[boltnrun]

Well, that explains it.

 

You accept his tiny breadcrumb before, so why not throw it out there again?

 

Unfortunately you've taught him very well how to treat you. So he's just continuing the cycle that has been going on for months.

 

I'm guessing this is not the "step up" you had in mind.

 

What if he had texted "Hey, just letting you know that since tomorrow is Wednesday, I'm going to be heading out to get you like I promised. If you say no, I'll just stay here. But if you still want to give this a try, I'll be leaving home at ".

 

I presume THAT would have been the grand "step up" gesture you were hoping for.

 

I bet he avoids you like the plague today, though. It IS Wednesday after all, and he knows you want him to follow through on the promise he made a couple of days ago. So, my money is on him shutting up until tomorrow.

[lostlove76]

I know, I know! I've taught him I would accept breadcrumbs, because it worked last time. I guess I'm inconsistent in whether I will answer or not, so he never knows what I'll do. When I'm mad at him, I ignore his calls a third of the time, answer a third, and send mean texts the other third. So he really doesn't know what I'll do. What he DOES know, though, is that if I do answer, I'll completely b&t*h him out for several hours. And it just doesn't phase him. I don't know that I'm convinced that he needs that to feel loved, like we were saying a while back, but maybe so.

 

Today is his day off, and it's Wednesday, so yeah, I'm wondering if he'll call tonight. We didn't have plans for him to come, so I don't think he would avoid for that reason (he said last call that he was coming Wednesday, but I told him I knew he wasn't, and I doubt he would remember that anyways). But I think he'll not call because he usually skips a day when I don't answer.

[boltnrun]

He said that every week, didn't he? I find it hard to believe he just "forgets". It's his way of getting you to get off his back. Until the next time he needs a dose of drama and conflict to fit in with his scenario of the "star-crossed lovers".

 

Blech.

[lostlove76]

He said that every week, didn't he? I find it hard to believe he just "forgets". It's his way of getting you to get off his back. Until the next time he needs a dose of drama and conflict to fit in with his scenario of the "star-crossed lovers".

 

Blech.

 

Yep, every week. I just fail to understand how someone could just blatantly lie or say something that they have no intention of following through with, over and over and over again. Maybe I can't understand it because I'm just not that kind of person. I've done it before, of course - we probably all have - but eventually it occurs to you to stop doing it after a few times. I think he really truly, IN HIS DRUNKEN STATE, believes it while he's saying it. He's gone into detail before about what we'll do when he gets here, and going to get his favorite sandwich at a certain restaurant, and this and that.

 

As for him forgetting... I don't know what all he remembers. He didn't remember being a jerk and calling himself a womanizer last week. I told him he was a jerk and he asked what he said. He's also forgotten me fussing at him in the past, until I reminded him by apologizing and he said he didn't remember it.

 

Sigh. I know how crazy this all sounds.

[boltnrun]

He keeps doing it because it works.

 

His "promises" have kept you tied to him, haven't they? So why not keep doing what works?

 

Same with the "hey" texts. You responded last time, so why not do it again?

 

And why you want to tie yourself to someone who regularly gets so drunk he can't remember what he did or said is a mystery. So yeah, you love him, but do you have any idea of what day to day life would be like with him? And I don't mean a few romantic weeks, but DAY TO DAY, dealing with him getting poo-faced several times a week and forgetting things. Oh yeah, and kissing random women because, after all, what's the big deal???

 

I truly hope you stay away for good.

[lostlove76]

He keeps doing it because it works.

 

His "promises" have kept you tied to him, haven't they? So why not keep doing what works?

 

Same with the "hey" texts. You responded last time, so why not do it again?

 

And why you want to tie yourself to someone who regularly gets so drunk he can't remember what he did or said is a mystery. So yeah, you love him, but do you have any idea of what day to day life would be like with him? And I don't mean a few romantic weeks, but DAY TO DAY, dealing with him getting poo-faced several times a week and forgetting things. Oh yeah, and kissing random women because, after all, what's the big deal???

 

I truly hope you stay away for good.

 

That's the thing, I really don't know what day to day life would be like with him. If we could have tried it, and it didn't work, then it just wouldn't have worked - and I would have seen it first hand, and could maybe move forward with that sure knowledge of how it was, and I would know that we at least tried.

 

Other women, I cannot handle. Period.

 

As for the mystery of why I want him. He has soooooo many amazing qualities, and I won't list them all again, or it will just make me feel sad. Even almost thinking about it makes me miss him again. Will I ever quit missing him??

 

I'm also fighting off any guilt feelings. I feel like I'm the one who broke our connection, and it caused this sudden downward spiral. He was at least trying before.

 

Also fighting off any feelings of feeling sorry for him. His drinking is getting worse, he's desperately trying to fill some void with all the dating site bs, etc. But that's his fault, right. He could have all the love and attention from me that he wanted if he would just do right. And he's the one who chose to move somewhere that makes it impossible to drink less (bars within walking distance of his place). He chose all of this.

[lostlove76]

I truly hope you stay away for good.

 

This is the plan. I know no one believes me, but it's definitely my goal. I was able to resist last night when he called, and I can do it again.

 

I almost hate to ask this, because it's going to sound weak, but oh well... IF he decides that he can't live without me and what we had, and he is ready to change, will he even realize what he needs to do to get it back? Will he realize that he needs to make some grand gesture?

[ThatwasThen]

Don't worry about that, history has proven he has no plans to make any grand gesture.

[ThatwasThen]

I think it helps me heal more to ignore than to block. Like I said, it makes me feel like I'm regaining my dignity a little bit, and it makes me feel stronger to know that I was able to ignore.

Actually, psychology 101 indicates that it is an ego boost for you to know he's trying to get in touch. It also indicates that you are no where near being able to actually close the door to this ongoing drama and push pull that you are addicted to.

 

If it becomes a problem, I will block him. Or when I get to the point where I'm 1000% okay with never talking to him again for the rest of my life, then I will block him. Just not there yet.

Yes.. and there you go. The problem with this train of thought you've reasoned for yourself is that you are like a person trying to quit smoking while continuing to have drags off of a cigarette... aint gonna quit that way.

 

I do wish you Good luck keeping strong and gone though and that he doesn't come up with some "grand jesture" no matter how remote a possibility that would be because it will all just be more words without action to back them up that will draw you right back onto the merry go round you've been on with this guy.

[lostlove76]

Yeah, it's a bit of an ego boost, I won't lie. One of many reasons why it feels good when he calls, I guess. But if I didn't love and want him, I wouldn't care if he called, and getting an ego boost wouldn't matter in the least. It's more just feeling like calling = caring.

 

Thanks for the good wishes. I'm trying to be strong and resist him, I really am. I did it last night. I need my heart to catch up with my head, and at that point, I'll be okay and over this. It's just hard when you truly still love someone, and hate to give up all the good things. I'm trying! Day by day. That's all I can do at this moment in time.

[lostlove76]

Dear OP,

I just read the title of your journal, skimmed through your 1st post and thought to myself "Oh no! she is going down a road she shouldn't be."

Been there, done that! never again! If you want marriage/commitment/boyfriend who sticks by your side - plz end this!

I can't tell you how glad I'm that I ended my interaction with the commitment-phobic man and to this day, I have unanswered questions. I didn't just lose time, I lost the trust in my ability to spot players, I lost the confidence to attract a decent, normal man and get married. My self-esteem took a giant hit because of the words he said to me. I can tell you that a handful seconds of highs were not worth the deep, dark lows.

 

I hope that you find these articles helpful.

 

 

 

 

Until women start thinking like men and acting like men (and I mean this in a good way), there will be commitment phobic men getting their way with women like us.

 

Hey LAYAAN, I just wanted to say thanks for reading and thanks for your comments. I'm glad to hear that you were able to end your similar situation. It's rough! So congrats on being strong enough to do that I've lost the same things you say you lost (self-esteem, trust in my ability, etc). I hope you're successful in gaining all that back.

 

"Until women start thinking like men and acting like men (and I mean this in a good way), there will be commitment phobic men getting their way with women like us."

This is soooo true. I thought that by calling him out on every single BS move he makes, I wasn't letting him get away with it. That's what I thought for a long time. I verbally stood up for myself, constantly. But I guess just by my still being here, he got away with it, huh. What did he get, really, though? Hours and hours of being b#t@hed at and told what a horrible person he is, ignored phone calls, etc etc. I don't feel like I made things easy for him. But I'm going off on a tangent. Really just wanted to say thanks for your support!!

[lilygirl]

I know how difficult it is to do the best thing and the right thing for you when you love someone and you really want things to work out, especially when you are standing in the middle of it. You have a ton of information flying at you and intellectually you understand that you need to walk away from this man for good, however, your heart isn't there yet, and whether it is logical or not, that is the present situation. Perhaps it might help to take it all one step at a time. For example, you are not ready to block him so for now focus on not answering anything and continue to do so, and take it day by day. This will build your strength, resolve, and will eventually provide clarity, hopefully buying you some time so your heart can catch up.

 

I think that despite all the ups and downs, the fact that he told you about this other woman might just be the thing that helps you turn the corner for good. Ask yourself this... would you ever do that to someone, especially someone that loved you? I am sure he knows you love him and yet he decided it was a good idea to tell you about his dalliances with another woman. This behaviour speaks to a profound lack of empathy for you. He thrives on drama, creates jealousy to perhaps boost his ego, and who knows what else, but this type of behaviour is indicative of someone who is truly broken inside.

 

I know it probably doesn't feel like it but you are going in the right direction. It is so hard to walk away from someone that you love, even when all the evidence continues to pile up showing that you should, but as it is often said, hope does die last. Remind yourself that you are starting to do things now that you probably couldn't ever imagine doing before. Trust me, with each step you take the momentum will build.

[lostlove76]

I too have been in a similar situation and I know how impossibly difficult it is to do the best thing and the right thing for you, especially when you are standing in the middle of it. You have a ton of information flying at you and intellectually you understand that you need to walk away, however, your heart isn't there yet, whether it is logical or not, that is the present situation. Perhaps it might help to take it all one step at a time. For example, you are not ready to block him yet so for now focus on not answering anything and continue to do so, take it day by day. This will build your strength, resolve, and will eventually provide clarity, hopefully buying you some time so your heart can catch up.

Hi lily. Thank you SO much for this. The part I bolded is exactly how I feel. My heart is still arguing with my head and telling me things that make me want to hang on and try again, while my head is reminding me that there are a hundred reasons to walk away. It's a constant internal battle between the two. So I'm just trying to do like you suggest and take it a day at a time until I feel less confused. In the meantime, I'm just not answering his calls, and that is the first step. Thank you for understanding

 

I think that despite all the ups and downs, the fact that he told you about this other woman might just be the thing that helps you turn the corner for good.

That's what I was thinking. While it hurt to hear it, I feel like I needed to. I wouldn't know about it if I hadn't answered the phone the other night, so I'm glad that I did. Now I have proof rather than just suspicions, which makes it much easier to make a decision.

 

Ask yourself this... would you ever do that to someone, especially someone that loved you? I am sure he knows you love him and yet he decided it was a good idea to tell you about his dalliances with another woman. This behaviour speaks to a profound lack of empathy for you.

Up until this point, he was always very reassuring and convincing that he wasn't talking to anyone else, seeing anyone else, interested in anyone else. So I don't know why he suddenly decided to tell me about it. His tone/attitude changed completely after I set that ultimatum about him coming here, and him telling me last Monday that he wasn't going to. Maybe he sensed that I was serious about it being the end, so he just gave up trying. I don't know, but I feel it had something to do with the ultimatum because of the timing of it all. And I had been ignoring him the week before that, and the week after that, so by the time we talked, it had been a while since things felt good between us. As for empathy - he's told me he's narcissistic, and I really think he is to some degree (not always, and not entirely).

 

He thrives on drama, creates jealousy to perhaps boost his ego, and who knows what else, but this type of behaviour is indicative of someone who is truly broken inside.

Part of me wondered if he was trying to make me jealous. He even said "Maybe I was trying to make you jealous" later in the conversation. He's said that to me two or three times in the past, as well. So maybe he was?

 

I know it probably doesn't feel like it but you are going in the right direction. It is so hard to walk away from someone that you love, even when all the evidence shows that you should but hope does die last. Remind yourself that you are starting to do things now that you probably couldn't ever imagine doing before. Trust me, with each step you take the momentum will build.

Thank you. I hope so!!

[lilygirl]

You are most welcome. If there is one thing I understand it is the occasional battle between one's heart and mind.

 

And yes, now you have this latest information. What this information also tells you is that your instincts were right about him so give yourself some credit for that. It is impossible to know what his motivations are for telling you about the other woman, and I would ask again, is that something you would ever do to someone that loves you? The thing is, it isn't something that he should ever have done, there is no justifiable reason, and that really is the bottom line.

[lostlove76]

This is going to sound bad, but I find myself wondering if he embellished the story at all to make me jealous? No that's not something someone would typically do to someone they love, but I've done similar when I'm upset with him (not nearly like that! but just little things). Something just seems a bit off about the story. Like last Sunday (our last good phone convo) he told me he wasn't interested in anyone else, wasn't talking to anyone else, hadn't been with anyone else. And he sounded sincere. Then the following night, he told me he was a lust-filled jacka$$$ womanizer, and I thought he was serious but in hindsight I don't know if he was being sarcastic because I always accuse him of that, and he was in a mood. Anyways, back to this girl. Does it really sound realistic that someone who is about to die in two months of her condition would still be "pretty" and "hot"?

 

Aghhh, see, this is what my mind does. Tries to minimize things and find loopholes. But you're right, there is no justifiable reason for any of it, and that's why I'm not talking to him anymore.