The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[Silverbirch]

Well, he must love all of his other exes too, because he goes nuts if any of them date anyone else. Even the woman he dated when she was 15 (and she's almost 40 now).

 

Sorry, but no.

 

He wants all of us to love HIM so he can feel like the big stud who no woman can ever get over. He wants to be "unforgettable". It's all about him.

 

I don't buy "well, he was afraid of his feelings". Or "he did the best he could". He cannot love. All he can do is take and take and take.

 

His current girlfriend, the one he dumped me for, the one he loves like never before...he's beaten her, thrown her physically out of his house, damaged her vehicle and cheated on her repeatedly. And yet, she is his great "love".

 

Nope, I don't need or want that kind of sick "love".

 

And for the record, for a while there he too treated me like gold. When I first agreed to start seeing him again he couldn't get enough of me. He told me over and over that he loved me, that he'd hit the jackpot when I went back to him, he proudly showed me off to all of his friends and family. He was affectionate and caring. He brought me things he knew I liked and contacted me all day to let me know he loved me and couldn't wait to see me. Then, after he was sure he "had" me, the same old BS started again.

 

I'm telling you this because I know how easy it is to believe when a man like that tells you what you want to hear. I can't say this man does or does not truly love you because I don't know him. All I know is what you've written...the broken promises, the lies, the dating site activity, the history of bailing out whenever he felt like things were getting too close, his refusal to stay sober long enough to go see you...all we're saying is these do not sound like the actions of a man in love. Maybe this is the best he can do. But if it is, how can you plan a future with someone like that??

 

 

BoltnRun, your ex sounds like someone with narcissistic personality disorder. Many people can have traits of narcissism, but what you describe sounds like he has the full thing.

[boltnrun]

Well, I think he's just a selfish jerk. There's absolutely no need for him to treat women as abominably as he does.

 

I do know he hates himself and (I believe) tries to get women to love him so that he can believe he's worthy of being loved. But then he treats those women with contempt and abuses their love for him. I think he thinks those women must be stupid to love someone like him. And if they're stupid, they deserve to be treated like stupid people. Hence the contempt and abuse.

 

It's complicated for sure. I've never before met someone who had that level of hatred for themselves. It must be a terrible thing to live with...but I don't believe that justifies treating others the way he treats them. Especially when he's claiming to love them.

 

I believe the man the OP is dealing with isn't ever going to be a true partner to her. For whatever reason, he's choosing to keep her away from him. He claims to love her but does nothing to be physically present. He deliberately keeps the two of them apart. Why, I have no idea. But I think sometimes the "why" is not so important.

[notalady]

Dear OP,

I just read the title of your journal, skimmed through your 1st post and thought to myself "Oh no! she is going down a road she shouldn't be."

Been there, done that! never again! If you want marriage/commitment/boyfriend who sticks by your side - plz end this!

I can't tell you how glad I'm that I ended my interaction with the commitment-phobic man and to this day, I have unanswered questions. I didn't just lose time, I lost the trust in my ability to spot players, I lost the confidence to attract a decent, normal man and get married. My self-esteem took a giant hit because of the words he said to me. I can tell you that a handful seconds of highs were not worth the deep, dark lows.

 

I hope that you find these articles helpful.

 

 

 

 

Until women start thinking like men and acting like men (and I mean this in a good way), there will be commitment phobic men getting their way with women like us.

 

I agree with the sentiment of these, which is watch the action not be confused by the words.

 

But I don't agree with the "walk and if he follows he's serious about you" sentiment in LostLove's situation. It applies mostly to early dating when the guy might've been unsure about the woman and most of the time they are happy to just let the woman go when she leaves, if he wasn't serious about her.

 

OP's guy DOES follow her. He did for years. And this is what OP is grappling with, "that must mean he loves me right?" No. It doesn't mean he loves and wants to commit to her, he just doesn't want to throw away his favourite toy. Wait till he finds his replacement toy, he'll be gone fast.

 

OP should walk away not to see if he comes after her, but with the genuine intention and resolve to walk away and stay away, forever.

[lostlove76]

Hey everyone. I usually respond to every comment, but I have a headache, so please forgive me for not doing that at this time. I did read every word though! Thanks to all! Now for a quick update...

 

I'm sure no one will be surprised to hear that he called last night and I answered. Actually he texted first, from the bar, to see if I wanted to talk. I envisioned him saying he made a mistake and was going to do better, and I was going to hear him out, but stay firm and make him sweat for a while and see if he stepped it up. But no, that is not what happened. When I answered, he drunkenly said heeeeeeey as if there was no recent problem at all. I reminded him that there was indeed a problem. He was really drunk or he never would have said this, but he proceeded to tell me that he had met some girl. He said she acts like a bada$$ on the street, but when they were on the beach she cried and cried. Because she has throat cancer and has two months to live. He said he feels sorry for her. Said she's pretty and hot. The two months to live thing sounds a bit weird, but he's not one to make up stories at all - so either it's true, or he was confused in his drunken haze, or she was lying to him. But whatever. I asked if he kissed her and he said yes, but said why does it matter? I asked when he met her and he said 3-4 weeks ago, and he's only seen her 3 times during that time period. I said well why isn't she there with you now? And he said he didn't know where she was. So it sounds like he just ran into her a few times and they went to the beach and talked and kissed. And he acted like this was totally okay, and didn't matter at all!! Then he was like, why did I tell you that?? Then he was saying he does love me. Said he's coming Wednesday to get me. Asked me again if I'll marry him. Keep in mind that he was super drunk. I b;&tched at him and cried and told him I didn't believe a word he said about loving me anymore, and he kept saying that he does. This was a four hour conversation. His excuse for doing the things he does is that he's an alcoholic and doesn't know what he's doing, and I'm not there. I told him that I loveD him, past tense, and that seemed to hurt his feelings. What does he expect??

 

I am SO mad at him for thinking that none of this is any big deal, and for kissing someone else, and being on the dating site all weekend, and every other crappy thing he's done. And I'm SO so very mad at MYSELF for letting him treat me like this for this long. I sent him a text this afternoon telling him that he told me about the girl (because honestly, he probably doesn't even remember what we talked about), and that because of that and the dating site and the broken promises and lies, I can't talk to him anymore. I told him I miss what we had and who I believed him to be. I told him I find it sad that he chooses shallow flings with tons of random girls over the love and connection that we had, but that it was his decision, and I need to move on. He won't care, until the next time he gets drunk and lonely. Or he might care a little, because he knows he's losing his best friend, and he knows he's a complete d!ckhead, and that must be hard to live with about yourself.

 

So that's that. I would be a complete idiot to ever trust him again. I hate that I lowered my boundaries and talked to him, and I hate that I had to hear about the girl, but I also probably needed to hear it because it's concrete proof of what he's been doing and who he actually is.

 

He truly sounded like he honestly just couldn't see the problem in kissing other girls, and kept saying why does it matter? He wasn't trying to manipulate me into thinking it's okay. He was too drunk for that. He was just speaking what he thinks and feels, and he really doesn't think there is anything wrong with doing what he does. That's unreal to me. He thinks we can just keep up with all the love talk and move along like its no big deal at all. I guess the alcohol really does completely mess with his thinking. I am SO hurt and angry, yet again.

[notalady]

He drunk dialled you to tell you about a girl he's seeing, fantastic. You should be angry - at yourself. You're the one that took the call and proceed to ask all these questions (I just don't get why you'd do that like, at all).

 

He doesn't see there's a problem because he really, honestly, genuinely, legitimately, JUST DON'T CARE. That's what we've been saying all this time.

 

Every time he hurts you, it's because you let him. Simple as that. To stop the hurt is simple too, stop letting him.

[lostlove76]

He drunk dialled you to tell you about a girl he's seeing, fantastic. You should be angry - at yourself. You're the one that took the call and proceed to ask all these questions (I just don't get why you'd do that like, at all).

 

He doesn't see there's a problem because he really, honestly, genuinely, legitimately, JUST DON'T CARE. That's what we've been saying all this time.

 

Every time he hurts you, it's because you let him. Simple as that. To stop the hurt is simple too, stop letting him.

 

I AM mad at myself. Very much so. The reason I asked questions is because I feel I needed to know the truth in order to move on. Your last line is so so so so true. I need to write that down and keep in front of me all the time.

 

He really doesn't care. But he DID care before, at least enough to try to keep what we had going. Before, he kept insisting how good he would be to me, and hadn't been with anyone else, etc. So what changed? I guess it was meeting this girl. Now he really doesn't care. His tone was just completely different from before.

[boltnrun]

I'm sorry you're hurt.

 

But, this may well be the final nail in the coffin of this non-relationship.

 

How could he come back from this? Will you ever be able to forgive him for seeing another woman for WEEKS without telling you? Kissing her? And then blaming YOU for not being there? When it's his decision to keep the two of you apart?

 

I hope this is the start of realizing this is not the great love you have been hoping it was. It may have been on your end, but really...does a man who is truly in love kiss another woman? Manipulate situations that keep him apart from the woman he claims to love? Lie, deceive, break promises?

 

I hope you know now he does not love you the way you love him. I'm fairly certain you aren't kissing other men behind his back and thinking it's no big deal.

 

I'm sorry for the loss of your dream. But today is the day you can stop focusing your life on him and focus on you. Just you. Because you are who is important here.

[annie24]

Are you ready to block him now?

[notalady]

I AM mad at myself. Very much so. The reason I asked questions is because I feel I needed to know the truth in order to move on. Your last line is so so so so true. I need to write that down and keep in front of me all the time.

 

He really doesn't care. But he DID care before, at least enough to try to keep what we had going. Before, he kept insisting how good he would be to me, and hadn't been with anyone else, etc. So what changed? I guess it was meeting this girl. Now he really doesn't care. His tone was just completely different from before.

 

He used to bother to PRETEND to care, to give you some pretty words and empty promises to keep you around. Now he can't be bothered pretending anymore because he's got back up.

 

Still throws out the half hearted "don't go, I love you" though I see.

[lostlove76]

Thanks guys. I'm not going to block him, because at this point it would feel really good to see him calling and ignore it, just to get back at him in some tiny way. I don't care if that is petty. I'm hurt. I agree this is the final nail in the coffin. I could never trust him again, ever. And he knows how horrible he is, and now he knows that the truth came out. So you're right, how can he even try to come back from that?

 

There's nothing I can do anymore but accept the hurt and try to move forward.

 

Maybe someone can snap me out of this one: Part of me is blaming myself for breaking our emotional connection by ignoring calls and fussing at him constantly and really just tearing apart the connection that we had. And I'm just wondering if I hadn't done that, and had just been open and loving and fun like always, would he still have kissed this girl? I guess he probably would have, but there is a tendency to blame myself. (Yes, I know how pathetic that sounds, but it's part of how I feel)

[lostlove76]

He used to bother to PRETEND to care, to give you some pretty words and empty promises to keep you around. Now he can't be bothered pretending anymore because he's got back up.

 

Still throws out the half hearted "don't go, I love you" though I see.

 

And asked again WILL YOU MARRY ME? I kept trying to tell him that was stupid, and he kept talking over me and asked like five times in a row. And said he's coming Wednesday. I honestly think that he believes these things as he's saying them, in his drunken state.

[annie24]

Thanks guys. I'm not going to block him, because at this point it would feel really good to see him calling and ignore it, just to get back at him in some tiny way. I don't care if that is petty. I'm hurt. I agree this is the final nail in the coffin. I could never trust him again, ever. And he knows how horrible he is, and now he knows that the truth came out. So you're right, how can he even try to come back from that?

 

There's nothing I can do anymore but accept the hurt and try to move forward.

 

Maybe someone can snap me out of this one: Part of me is blaming myself for breaking our emotional connection by ignoring calls and fussing at him constantly and really just tearing apart the connection that we had. And I'm just wondering if I hadn't done that, and had just been open and loving and fun like always, would he still have kissed this girl? I guess he probably would have, but there is a tendency to blame myself. (Yes, I know how pathetic that sounds, but it's part of how I feel)

 

You're just leaving the door open so he can keep hurting you - either he stops calling you or he does like he did last night - call you and tell you about the new hot women (who are dying of cancer) that he's hooking up with. Great. Absolutely great. Do you like pain? Do you want more of this every night? One of my friends (when I didn't want to block a guy) made it really clear to me - he said, "If you don't block him, he can literally text or call you, anytime, day or night, and say absolutely anything to you to make you feel like crap. Don't give him that power."

 

I know you like to blame yourself for "fussing" at him, but really, this relationship has been broken for a while. It is good you broke it off, now block him and have it stay off for good.

[annie24]

And asked again WILL YOU MARRY ME? I kept trying to tell him that was stupid, and he kept talking over me and asked like five times in a row. And said he's coming Wednesday. I honestly think that he believes these things as he's saying them, in his drunken state.

 

Do you think he might have a drinking problem!?

[Silverbirch]

OP, you will drive yourself crazy trying to look for logical behaviour or logical reasons for his behaviour. I don't think you REAKKY get that he is a sick alcoholic. He doesn't even really know himself what he thinks or wants.

 

Please don't think I'm berating you because I am in a situation which has some similarities to you, and zive been really struggling. I've finally come to really see that my relationship with him is like an addiction and that I am obsessed with him.

 

What aim trying to do right now, and which might help you is to focus on other areas of my life which I have been neglecting and are important. I feel certain you will be able to overcome your anxiety, particularly in relation to your driving.

 

Just remember, this guy IS likely to be there later on. Let go of him for now at least. Focus on getting the anxiety and your financial situation in order. Well this is what I'm planning on doing myself and of course you can take or leave that advice. I hope you have a better day Hon. Please take care of yourself today.(((()))))

[annie24]

What aim trying to do right now, and which might help you is to focus on other areas of my life which I have been neglecting and are important. I feel certain you will be able to overcome your anxiety, particularly in relation to your driving.

 

I totally agree - putting energy into other places into your life is more productive than crying over a loser.

[lostlove76]

Annie, I'll think about it (blocking him). I totally get your reasoning. Just not sure I'm ready for that. It does make me feel better when he tries to call and I don't answer. And I won't answer. But like bolt said, how could he call again after this?

[lostlove76]

Do you think he might have a drinking problem!?

 

LOL. Maybe just a little

[annie24]

Annie, I'll think about it (blocking him). I totally get your reasoning. Just not sure I'm ready for that. It does make me feel better when he tries to call and I don't answer. And I won't answer. But like bolt said, how could he call again after this?

 

So he calls 10 times in a row, and you ignore, and then you feel good enough to answer on the 11th, and that's when he tells you he loves you and is also dating other women and then tells you how hot they are. Is that what you want to hear?

[lostlove76]

OP, you will drive yourself crazy trying to look for logical behaviour or logical reasons for his behaviour. I don't think you REAKKY get that he is a sick alcoholic. He doesn't even really know himself what he thinks or wants.

 

Please don't think I'm berating you because I am in a situation which has some similarities to you, and zive been really struggling. I've finally come to really see that my relationship with him is like an addiction and that I am obsessed with him.

 

What aim trying to do right now, and which might help you is to focus on other areas of my life which I have been neglecting and are important. I feel certain you will be able to overcome your anxiety, particularly in relation to your driving.

 

Just remember, this guy IS likely to be there later on. Let go of him for now at least. Focus on getting the anxiety and your financial situation in order. Well this is what I'm planning on doing myself and of course you can take or leave that advice. I hope you have a better day Hon. Please take care of yourself today.(((()))))

 

This is really comforting, thank you. I definitely relate to what you're saying about yourself, about it being like an addiction. It really is. I hope for the very best for you in your healing, as well. Hugs. It sounds like you're on the right path.

 

And yeah, I don't really get it about his alcoholism. I guess I do need to read a bit more about it. Everyone tells me that this is such a huge problem, and I don't know why I can't see it that way. Strange, I know. Even HE says it's the main problem in why he does what he does.

[lostlove76]

So he calls 10 times in a row, and you ignore, and then you feel good enough to answer on the 11th, and that's when he tells you he loves you and is also dating other women and then tells you how hot they are. Is that what you want to hear?

 

Maybe it's going to take some time (days? weeks? months?) to quit having this underlying hope that he'll change. That he'll call and say the right things and then follow up. Hence the need to block him, as you are saying, I know. But maybe I'll get there. I'm just not there quite yet. I'm still working on accepting the situation as it is.

 

And honestly, as crappy as it felt to hear that stuff last night, I really needed to hear it didn't I? Otherwise I would have still be living in the delusion. I needed to know the truth. And I wouldn't have the truth if I hadn't answered the phone.

[reinventmyself]

Imagine for every bad relationship, it leaves behind a scar. These scars influence your future relationships.

Consider this a multitude of scarring that will leave you so far behind in a healthy sense for any future relationship.

Why consider going on with the collective damage it does to your heart?

Do you want a relationship in future? Do you want a good chance at one? Then stop this bleeding for you, for yourself and for your heart.

Let that be your motivation.

[boltnrun]

You've been "hoping" for seven months. I'm not sure how much longer you need to figure out he's NEVER going to follow through with his promises. I hope it's not seven more months. Or seven years.

 

And now you know for sure he sees (and kisses!) other women behind your back. How does that make you feel? Do you still believe he has this great love for you when he deceives you about having romantic contact with other women?

 

Yes, you needed to hear it. But I don't know if you're strong enough to keep ignoring him when he drunkenly calls you (on one of the nights where he can't be with one of his other women).

 

For me, once I knew for sure he was kissing other women and keeping it from me, I'd be done. I wouldn't have any more "hope".

[lostlove76]

Reinventyourself: Thank you. So true, what you said. I'll be damaged from this for a long time, I'm afraid. Yes, it's time to stop any further damage.

 

Bolt: I don't know why it's so hard to let go of the hope. I also don't know why it's so hard to see things the way you guys are seeing them, the part that was leading up to this. It felt SO real to me, all the love and connection. And I know he felt it too. I don't understand why no one can see that. Yes he's a crappy person who does crappy things. And was probably doing things behind my back (before this latest girl). But it really all felt so real to me, and we really did have that connection. Just because he's a horrible selfish person doesn't mean he didn't love me in his own way. He loved me more than anyone else in his life; I was closer to him than anyone else. I just don't want to diminish the whole entire thing as being a complete and total lie, because 1) I don't think it's true, and 2) it's really harmful to me to view it that way. That's why I keep harping on it I guess.

 

Anyways. I need to somehow let go of the hope, but that's a really really difficult thing to do for some reason.

[reinventmyself]

Reinventyourself: Thank you. So true, what you said. I'll be damaged from this for a long time, I'm afraid. Yes, it's time to stop any further damage.

 

Bolt: I don't know why it's so hard to let go of the hope. I also don't know why it's so hard to see things the way you guys are seeing them, the part that was leading up to this. It felt SO real to me, all the love and connection. And I know he felt it too. I don't understand why no one can see that. Yes he's a crappy person who does crappy things. And was probably doing things behind my back (before this latest girl). But it really all felt so real to me, and we really did have that connection. Just because he's a horrible selfish person doesn't mean he didn't love me in his own way. He loved me more than anyone else in his life; I was closer to him than anyone else. I just don't want to diminish the whole entire thing as being a complete and total lie, because 1) I don't think it's true, and 2) it's really harmful to me to view it that way. That's why I keep harping on it I guess.

 

Anyways. I need to somehow let go of the hope, but that's a really really difficult thing to do for some reason.

 

But all the `love' experiences you have had with him in the past 7 months are mere words. Words, with absolutely no action to back it up.

Not only that he is behaving in an unloving and selfish way, honestly.

 

He makes promises and is not able to keep his word. Therefore he is, untrustworthy.

There is no consistency, even though you have asked him for it.

 

He is looking for and seeing other women, while telling you otherwise . .well up til now. I can only imagine what he's not telling you.

 

None of this is loving behavior. It's just noise. Toxic noise.

So when you drown out the noise, what exactly do you have left?

 

If he loved you, he would `show' you. I am not seeing it from here.

[Realitynut]

Lost love...I know why you won't block him.....

 

You say it makes you feel good not to answer him...like you're punishing him.

 

But the REAL reason is.....you get a little satisfaction thinking..."he wants me. He does care" or he wouldn't be calling.

 

You WANT him to call. You WANT to not answer, cuz it gives you SOME power. Like "i'm strong. You want me...but I don't want you...." that kind of thought process.

 

Believe me, I've been there, done that.

 

My fiancé cheated on me for months....then dumped me....then SHE took him to Jamaica and paid for the whole thing. When they got back, he dumped her to be with me. I took him back. 4 months later...he went back to her. I was hoping she was stronger than me, and would have tossed his A$$ to the curb. But she took him back.

 

Now with Tom and his latest woman, after he dumped her to be with me, she called him every name in the book...plus a liar and deceiver.

Now that he dumped me....I think she's going back to him!!! WOW.

 

Are we really that weak...and desperate for love?

 

I guess our actions say YES.

 

You are angry now. But when that anger leaves you, and you become lonely...you will answer his call again. And be hurt again.

 

Endless cycle. I don't block my guy either...so I know where you're coming from. I KNOW where you're head is at.

 

And it's IS an addiction. The reason you can't understand why HIS addiction is so bad....is the same reason you can't understand your OWN addiction.

 

Just my thoughts. ((hugs)) wish life was simple.