The Ups and Downs of Loving a Commitment-Phobe

[lostlove76]

Notalady: That makes sense. I just typed a whole paragraph in reply, but realized I was just basically repeating what you said! So I deleted it. I get you though.

 

Missmarple: That's a good question. I don't drive to see him because I have driving anxiety issues, and an older car. Perhaps I could pull it off, if I could find all back roads (which I'm not sure is possible). But I also felt like I would feel more secure if he came here, because then I would KNOW he wanted it since he was making the effort, rather than just passively letting me come down. Mostly the driving issues though.

 

As for Christmas, well... I was being stubborn and mad, if you wanna know the truth. He said he was coming Christmas Eve, and then he didn't tell me that he delayed it a day (because of having to drive elsewhere to see his cousin and their new baby, or something), as is his habit - not to tell anyone when plans change. He's impulsive and does what he wants and doesn't like to answer to anyone. So I texted on xmas eve and asked if he made it home yet, and he said he was coming the next day. So I just didn't reply, and I didn't answer the phone when he called from here, which actually ended up being the day after Christmas. I just let him go on back home, and I didn't answer the next two times he called, either. Real smart and mature of me, I know. I was just trying to learn how to set boundaries with him, and at the time, this is what I felt I needed to do. I don't always know the right thing to do, obviously. Also, I was kind of afraid of seeing him and then him leaving, because I would have had to go through the intense missing-him period all over again that I went through when he moved. Maybe not the best judgement in the world, but it was what I did.

 

ETA: I guess we were both (me and him) in the wrong on that one.

[lostlove76]

Correct, notalady and bolt!! Sorry, I was typing a novel there before I saw your comments.

[missmarple]

Ok, Christmas aside (I think you were both in the wrong, too)...those 5 months since Christmas..how come he's never come to see you?

[lostlove76]

Honestly, it's always some excuse. First his truck wasn't running for a long time (I know this was true, and he can walk anywhere he needed to go, and he couldn't afford to have it fixed). Then he was working 6 days a week. It's an 8- hour round trip, a bit much for a few-hours visit. Mostly he was always too drunk. He stays up all night long until past daylight drinking, and then he wouldn't be sober enough to drive. I think some of these were real reasons. I think the rest is just him living in the moment, day by day, and doing whatever comes to him on that particular day. He's not a planner. He's truly one of those people who can't keep and make plans. ALSO, and this is no small thing - I told him from the day we started talking again that I wouldn't be okay with visits. That we had to move me down there. In hindsight I can see the flaw in this. But at the time, I felt like I couldn't handle having a visit and then parting ways again and having that intense missing-him period all over again, like I mentioned in my last post. And I was afraid he would take advantage and the moving me down there would never happen (which it didn't anyhow, sigh). But I truly made it clear that it was moving in together or nothing, and that this was the only way I would even talk to him. It sounds like I'm listing all kinds of excuses, but I don't think so - I think all of the above are legitimate reasons he never came. Would he have come if none of the above was a factor? I don't know. Maybe if he (and I, too) were more mature and could make plans and actually stick to them, and have sober conversations about such things, then maybe. But we were both just kind of going day by day and planning for "next week" and putting it off and, well, this is what it came to.

[notalady]

In the Christmas situation, Lostlove you don't know how to deal with his continued and persistent lack of reliability and just acted out (being passive aggressive). No, not very mature indeed, however he's in the wrong first. You know what, I would've refused to see him too, but I would've responded to tell him that his continued lack of respect for me including in this instance is unacceptable and don't bother to try and see me ever again.

 

But I know you'd never tell him that (and stick to it).

[Realitynut]

Because he doesn't WANT to. Usually to drunk to drive. At least that's one excuse.

[boltnrun]

Choosing to get so drunk that he couldn't drive...yep, that's an addict. Sadly, he cared more about the booze than he did about seeing you.

 

And he will always choose booze over you. Since he won't get help, and he believes he's "functional", he will never stop.

 

I think I told you my grandfather was an alcoholic who didn't miss a single day of work in over 30 years. So, by your definition he was "functional". BUT, home life was hell for his wife and children. He ended up in a hospital dying alone after he'd driven his entire family away with his drinking.

 

Yes, it's sad. But NO ONE can convince or love someone into getting help.

 

I know you claim his drinking doesn't bother you and that it doesn't interfere with your relationship. But the fact that he willingly CHOSE to drink instead of driving to see you proves you wrong on that point. When it came down to his bottle or you, the bottle won. So it DID affect you, because he could have come to get you umpteen times but he chose not to.

 

I'm sorry. Loving an addict is an exercise in futility because you want to help. And you want him to know you love him in spite of his addiction. But he will never be able to put you before his drinking, and there's not a thing you can do to change it.

[lostlove76]

In the Christmas situation, Lostlove you don't know how to deal with his continued and persistent lack of reliability and just acted out (being passive aggressive). No, not very mature indeed, however he's in the wrong first. You know what, I would've refused to see him too, but I would've responded to tell him that his continued lack of respect for me including in this instance is unacceptable and don't bother to try and see me ever again.

 

But I know you'd never tell him that (and stick to it).

 

Okay, thanks, that's good to know that you would've done the same. I was definitely being passive-aggressive. And I actually didn't plan on talking to him again, or even explaining why (I was going to let him figure it out), but of course I caved after he called several times. Honestly, I think he is so used to not being accountable to anyone about anything, or having to stick to plans, that he really thinks nothing of it. Which is NOT okay. But that is his mindset. He used to do that to his mom in high school - would just take off and not be able to be gotten in touch with - and he never grew up, apparently. He does it to literally everyone. He's not shown up for jobs before. He doesn't usually answer the phone when his mom, or anyone else, calls. He's done it to all past girlfriends. He did it to a mutual friend of ours - said he was going to help him move, and then texted with an excuse the day of. So it's most definitely, without a doubt, not just me that he does this too. Still not okay. But I take it a tiny bit less personally, ya know?

[Realitynut]

^^^That was for MM...but then I see you had answered it,

 

But I wanted to comment on another issue.

 

He has commitment issues, alcohol issues....and who knows what all.....and you want him to get over it...step up....and make it work. JUST TRY. I get it. That's how I felt with my know ex. (who I think is going back to the one before.ugh)

 

Maybe he just can't. It's not just that he WON'T but he CAN'T. Just like you have anxiety. You CAN drive....but you WON'T drive, because it causes you high anxiety. He might think....well, dang it...just get in the car and TRY!

 

Think of it as him making any sort of commitment to YOU...causes him high anxiety.

 

I don't want to give you any hope that this relationship is salvageable...hell...you have way too much hope already!!! lol

 

But just another take on it. He CAN'T love you the way you want to be loved. Commitment phobes just can't do it. It is what it is. He's an alcoholic. He is what he is. This is who the guy is...and WILL NEVER CHANGE!

 

Sure, my guy was Mr. wonderful for the first 10 months. Until sex was on the plate, and relationship became a word in our conversation. Which he HATED. I have finally realized that WONDERFUL guy, who was my best friend for 10 months...is NOT the same guy he is today.

 

Same with your guy. Sure, when he first lived with you...that was the infatuation stage. He's past that. Reality has set in....and the reality is...HE DOESN"T WANT YOU.

 

Sorry. He doesn't

 

Just like you can't drive, OR sit in a group of people....he can't make a commitment to you.

 

When I tried to talk to my guy....even for a little bit about our relationship...he said his head felt like it was going to explode.

 

Nice. He also told me, those 10 months as friends...no sex....but he was pursuing....was because I was 'safe'. Didn't think he'd ever 'get' me.

 

That is how your ex/bf is seeing you. You are SAFE. You're not with him. You are a phone buddy. If you want...you can think of yourself as a sex caller girl. Ya know...the kind the guy calls up...and get sex talked. Except now it's cyber sex...lol...I'm old.

 

Anyway...he gets what he wants from you...the emotional connection....sans the sex. He's probably watching porn and drinking the nights he's not talking to you! (sorry, not nice) But I think you're living with blinders on. As did I. As I probably still am.

 

We only see what we want to see.

 

And you know the old saying....everyone on the outside looking in....can see the probs....and knows the answers.

 

Remember what I said before...if he loved you:

 

He would have come got you.

He wouldn't be on dating sites looking for other women.

He wouldn't lie.

He wouldn't leave you hanging and not call for days.

 

These are NOT the actions of a man in love. Or even In LIKE.

 

Love is a verb.

[lostlove76]

Bolt: Why do you think your grandfather (and so many other functional alcoholics) was able to make it to work every day and keep a job, but his home life was in turmoil? Stricter boundaries/consequences? I wondered this last time you mentioned it, I think, but don't remember if I brought it up. It's GOT to be because they HAVE to make it to their jobs or else they'll get fired, have no income, lose the house, etc. Strict consequences. But with loved ones, they know they can slide by. Right? Just something interesting to wonder about.

 

I totally see your point about him choosing alcohol over me. It would require not drinking so much the night before, which is where the problem lies, since he drinks all night. But I do have to wonder if it's an excuse. There's no reason he wouldn't want to see me (if I gave him that option, rather than all or nothing). But it's easy to put it off and put it off, and before you know it, 5 months have passed. Since I'm like that, too, in many ways, I guess I can kind of understand it and give too much leeway on it perhaps. I'll procrastinate til the cows come home. But still. His excitement to see me should have overridden all of that (again, if I had given the option of just visits - not sure how seriously he took me on that, but I was pretty adamant about moving there or nothing).

[boltnrun]

Love is a verb. Gosh, that is fantastic.

 

It's easy for me to shout "I LOVE YOU!!!" from the rooftops. But like I always say, just because I tell you I'm the Duke of Earl doesn't mean I'm the Duke of Earl.

 

Yes, when you two were together he showed you in a lot of ways that he loved and wanted you. But what has he done since then? He's chosen to get drunk rather than include you in his life on a daily basis! He'd rather hug his bottle than hug you. And he moved hours away so you can't even see him for a visit unless he's willing to make the effort. Which, again, he's chosen not to.

 

That totally sucks. But again, it's HIS issue. You didn't make him this way, and it's not like if you hadn't said this or that, or if you HAD said this or that, things would be different. They NEVER will be different. He's shown you loud and clear who he is RIGHT NOW. And right now, he just plain doesn't want you there, or he'd make it happen.

 

Again, I'm sorry. I know you put all your hopes and dreams on this man. But he's false. He's a "future faker". And that is NOT on you, it's not your fault. It's the choice HE'S making.

[boltnrun]

To answer your question, I'd have to speculate but I'd assume it's what you said. Work/your job has very strict boundaries. Whereas people (my mother's family and you, for example) either don't set boundaries or they do but don't stick to them. People WANT to overlook or forgive, but your employer has no emotional connection and therefore will replace you in a heartbeat if necessary. And in my grandmother's case, remember this was the 1950s, where she didn't have the opportunity to divorce him and just get a job to support her six children. They would have been homeless and starving without my grandfather.

 

But they eventually did leave. And that's why he died alone.

[Realitynut]

I'm living vicariously through your posts LostLove....and I know how you feel. Cuz I've been there.

 

But there comes a time, you have to quit banging your head on the wall.

 

I'm sick. Cuz I do want him back. But I want the old Tom back....not the Tom he is now.

 

You are living in the past also. The way he was...the way you hoped he'd be in the future.

 

It's hard to let that go. All that love. If you suddenly don't have/feel love for him....what will you have? Nothing. Just one big empty shell. Because you made this guy your life....and when he's not your life anymore...you will have nothing.

 

I get it.

[lostlove76]

Realitynut: I agree with half, and disagree with half, of what you said! You make some very good points. I've always kind of compared his commitment issues to my anxiety issues, as well. There are certain things that I won't even consider doing, because it's way too uncomfortable. It seems impossible, because the amount of anxiety it would cause just seems too huge. I would rather just avoid (hmmm).

 

Just like you have anxiety. You CAN drive....but you WON'T drive, because it causes you high anxiety. He might think....well, dang it...just get in the car and TRY!

I think this is exactly what he thinks. He doesn't understand it. He's asked me several times why I can't just drive down there. I have to remind him I have the anxiety. He just doesn't get it, because it's not something he's ever felt. He's a good driver, so he doesn't see the problem. He thinks, just do it. He says it's not that hard.

 

I don't think it's as simple as he doesn't want me. I do KNOW he loves me. I'm not sure why no one believes that I am 100% positive that he does, and I'm not being blind about it, or swooning to his words. I'm extremely hard to convince that someone loves me, and I still believe that he does. I guess yall just have to take my word for it. I don't know how else to explain how I know this to be true. However, I think he doesn't want the commitment, per se. He says he wants to be with me forever and whatnot. But he doesn't want to lose his freedom and independence, he doesn't want the awkwardness of living together in a small space, he doesn't know how to work out issues that might arise. That doesn't mean he doesn't want me.

 

About the sex: he's the least sex-driven guy I've ever met. He's extremely respectful about sex, unlike most guys, who want it when they want it. He doesn't even seem to think about it. I'm sure he does watch porn and jack off, and I know he's been with a lot of girls. But it's not at the top of his priority list. He's more about the emotional. Also, he has "problems" due to the drinking, if you know what I mean, to say it nicely.

 

When I tried to talk to my guy....even for a little bit about our relationship...he said his head felt like it was going to explode.

Most commiment-phobic, avoidant guys are like this!! So yours fits the bill. Mine, however, will talk about it for as long as I want or need. And he'll bring it up himself, all the time. Always saying I love you first, always talking about the future, always asking "what are we gonna do?" Will discuss it for hours, with patience. But wouldn't talk about that stuff at all with his ex. Maybe he just got comfortable after I brought it up so much, I don't know. But that's one of the many thing I appreciated about him

[lostlove76]

Love is a verb. Gosh, that is fantastic.

 

It's easy for me to shout "I LOVE YOU!!!" from the rooftops. But like I always say, just because I tell you I'm the Duke of Earl doesn't mean I'm the Duke of Earl.

 

Yes, when you two were together he showed you in a lot of ways that he loved and wanted you. But what has he done since then? He's chosen to get drunk rather than include you in his life on a daily basis! He'd rather hug his bottle than hug you. And he moved hours away so you can't even see him for a visit unless he's willing to make the effort. Which, again, he's chosen not to.

 

That totally sucks. But again, it's HIS issue. You didn't make him this way, and it's not like if you hadn't said this or that, or if you HAD said this or that, things would be different. They NEVER will be different. He's shown you loud and clear who he is RIGHT NOW. And right now, he just plain doesn't want you there, or he'd make it happen.

 

Again, I'm sorry. I know you put all your hopes and dreams on this man. But he's false. He's a "future faker". And that is NOT on you, it's not your fault. It's the choice HE'S making.

 

I have to agree with all of the above, unfortunately. Part of me wonders if he moved just to get away from continuing a committed relationship with me. But that would be extreme. He moved for a job. But he moved without regard for me. He said he didn't think he would miss me (typical avoidant), and that he's never missed anyone before. But then he realized that he did miss me.

 

Thanks for convincing me this wasn't my doing or my fault. I do tend to fall into that trap. But he's the one throwing up road blocks all over the place, and making things so difficult.

 

And yeah, I don't think he wants me there. I think he wants me there in theory. But I don't think he wants me (or anyone) intruding on his lifestyle there, where he gets to do what he wants when he wants, and then get the emotional connection on the phone with me. I think he would love to have me there on a whim whenever he wanted, but he can't/won't make the commitment to change his whole life for it. He wants to live the single life and do what he wants to do. Sadly enough, I have to admit that It makes me so mad that he went to such extremes to future fake. So cruel.

[lostlove76]

To answer your question, I'd have to speculate but I'd assume it's what you said. Work/your job has very strict boundaries. Whereas people (my mother's family and you, for example) either don't set boundaries or they do but don't stick to them. People WANT to overlook or forgive, but your employer has no emotional connection and therefore will replace you in a heartbeat if necessary. And in my grandmother's case, remember this was the 1950s, where she didn't have the opportunity to divorce him and just get a job to support her six children. They would have been homeless and starving without my grandfather.

 

But they eventually did leave. And that's why he died alone.

That is very sad My ex/guy/whatever's grandfather died the exact same way.

 

I'm living vicariously through your posts LostLove....and I know how you feel. Cuz I've been there.

 

But there comes a time, you have to quit banging your head on the wall.

 

I'm sick. Cuz I do want him back. But I want the old Tom back....not the Tom he is now.

 

You are living in the past also. The way he was...the way you hoped he'd be in the future.

 

It's hard to let that go. All that love. If you suddenly don't have/feel love for him....what will you have? Nothing. Just one big empty shell. Because you made this guy your life....and when he's not your life anymore...you will have nothing.

 

I get it.

 

What I bolded there, Realitynut... EXACTLY! That's exactly how I feel. Hugs to you for feeling the same way. I hate that you have to go through it as well.

[boltnrun]

Well, like I wrote earlier, my ex pursued me for five years, begging for another chance. From the outside, wouldn't you have concluded that he must have REALLY loved me to continue for FIVE YEARS to pursue me when I kept saying no, no, NO!? I even ridiculed him to my friends. But he kept trying.

 

And, it turns out, he didn't love me. He doesn't love me, even though a couple of months ago he sent me a text that said he loved me and wished he could see me. He DOES NOT LOVE ME. His actions proved that.

 

So I suppose he too is a faker. He faked loving me to get me. Why? I can only speculate that his ego was bruised when I dumped him the first time (for someone else, someone he knew, no less) and he HAD to get me back to prove something to himself. He gets all possessive over all of his exes, BTW. He cannot stand the idea that we don't love him anymore.

 

So, if that's not an example of going to extremes to fake love, I don't know what is. But people do it. Damaged people.

[lostlove76]

Bolt: When you lay it all out like that, it does sound like he didn't/doesn't love you. But I just don't believe things are that black and white. I think it's all about perspective. We never really know what someone is thinking. People love to their own capacities, and it doesn't always look the same. He very well may love you. And he just couldn't handle it and follow through. Or maybe you're right and it's all about his ego. Either way, sounds like he definitely does NOT deserve you. (Which I know is what you all are telling me as well)

[notalady]

Whether he loves you was never or should've never been the point I think. How someone behave in light of that "love" or whatever they are feeling for you, is the point.

 

An abuser loves the abused in his or her own way as well, I have no doubt that they love them, so much so that they need to control them so that their loved ones can never leave. Some would kill in the name of love, again, so that their love can never leave them. Some people can never get close to the person they love. Someone can get close but never want to commit to a life time together. Some may love but are deeply flawed such that a relationship with this person will never be satisfying and being with them is at your own detriment.

 

People romanticise love, but love is not meant to be romantic. It's meant to be practical and it's meant to make sense. It's meant to be beneficial and adds value to your life. Romance is merely a way to maintain a loving relationship.

[missmarple]

I do KNOW he loves me. I'm not sure why no one believes that I am 100% positive that he does, and I'm not being blind about it, or swooning to his words. I'm extremely hard to convince that someone loves me, and I still believe that he does. I guess yall just have to take my word for it. I don't know how else to explain how I know this to be true. However, I think he doesn't want the commitment, per se. He says he wants to be with me forever and whatnot. But he doesn't want to lose his freedom and independence, he doesn't want the awkwardness of living together in a small space, he doesn't know how to work out issues that might arise. That doesn't mean he doesn't want me.

 

Well, someone who doesn't want to be committed to you, someone who says he wants to be with you forever and yet he doesn't try to see you for months on end, someone who doesn't want to lose his freedom, someone who doesn't want to live together...and that someone is almost 40 years old and not 18...and you're asking why no one believes that he loves you????

Seriously?

 

Look...I don't know how you got into your head the idea that he loves you. A guy like the one you describe would have to have given me his kidney if I were to believe that despite all that, I know he loves me.

 

Has he given you a kidney or something and you're not telling us? Because if he hasn't, I'm at a loss as to what makes you so sure he loves you.

[Realitynut]

Because he TOLD her he loved her!!!

 

Great posts Notalady and MM!

 

I 'loved' my fiance' up in Wisconsin.....but I acted like a crazy woman...and going through menopause....made him BAIL!

I loved him so much.....I went into a deep depression.

 

But he couldn't take any conflict what so ever....and I understand why he had to 'run off with another woman'.

 

I know he loved me too....but just not enough to make a commitment with someone that drove him nuts.

[boltnrun]

Bolt: When you lay it all out like that, it does sound like he didn't/doesn't love you. But I just don't believe things are that black and white. I think it's all about perspective. We never really know what someone is thinking. People love to their own capacities, and it doesn't always look the same. He very well may love you. And he just couldn't handle it and follow through. Or maybe you're right and it's all about his ego. Either way, sounds like he definitely does NOT deserve you. (Which I know is what you all are telling me as well)

 

Well, he must love all of his other exes too, because he goes nuts if any of them date anyone else. Even the woman he dated when she was 15 (and she's almost 40 now).

 

Sorry, but no.

 

He wants all of us to love HIM so he can feel like the big stud who no woman can ever get over. He wants to be "unforgettable". It's all about him.

 

I don't buy "well, he was afraid of his feelings". Or "he did the best he could". He cannot love. All he can do is take and take and take.

 

His current girlfriend, the one he dumped me for, the one he loves like never before...he's beaten her, thrown her physically out of his house, damaged her vehicle and cheated on her repeatedly. And yet, she is his great "love".

 

Nope, I don't need or want that kind of sick "love".

 

And for the record, for a while there he too treated me like gold. When I first agreed to start seeing him again he couldn't get enough of me. He told me over and over that he loved me, that he'd hit the jackpot when I went back to him, he proudly showed me off to all of his friends and family. He was affectionate and caring. He brought me things he knew I liked and contacted me all day to let me know he loved me and couldn't wait to see me. Then, after he was sure he "had" me, the same old BS started again.

 

I'm telling you this because I know how easy it is to believe when a man like that tells you what you want to hear. I can't say this man does or does not truly love you because I don't know him. All I know is what you've written...the broken promises, the lies, the dating site activity, the history of bailing out whenever he felt like things were getting too close, his refusal to stay sober long enough to go see you...all we're saying is these do not sound like the actions of a man in love. Maybe this is the best he can do. But if it is, how can you plan a future with someone like that??

[Realitynut]

^^^^ bingo.

[annie24]

Oh, and meant to say earlier.... Annie, I wasn't ignoring your last post. I hear what you're saying, and I know all of that is necessary. I can't think forward that much right now, just trying to get through the night, but I will. Thanks.

 

Bolt, I'll read yours and reply after I eat something, I'm starving.

 

thinking forward is what will help you move on. There's no point in worrying yourself silly over this man anymore. It's not going to give you a payoff.

[LAYAAN]

Dear OP,

I just read the title of your journal, skimmed through your 1st post and thought to myself "Oh no! she is going down a road she shouldn't be."

Been there, done that! never again! If you want marriage/commitment/boyfriend who sticks by your side - plz end this!

I can't tell you how glad I'm that I ended my interaction with the commitment-phobic man and to this day, I have unanswered questions. I didn't just lose time, I lost the trust in my ability to spot players, I lost the confidence to attract a decent, normal man and get married. My self-esteem took a giant hit because of the words he said to me. I can tell you that a handful seconds of highs were not worth the deep, dark lows.

 

I hope that you find these articles helpful.

 

 

 

 

Until women start thinking like men and acting like men (and I mean this in a good way), there will be commitment phobic men getting their way with women like us.