Somewhere in between indifference, confusion, and sadness

[figureitout23]

I know he isn't going to say a word to me. He will let this go just like he did all the other times.

 

Unfortunately you kind of taught him this was ok. Lets be honest, put yourself in his shoes, if you got caught cheating ( is he cheating? Im still unclear ) again, and you know all you had to do to be forgiven is go silent for a few weeks, what would you do?

 

 

The more I sit and think about this, there isn't anything we can talk about. I kept thinking I needed to talk to him, but maybe I just need to let it go. No amount of talking is going to save this. I think it is up to me to move on with my life this time.

 

I hope you stick to this mindset, but being honest I don't know that you're quite there yet. Even though you're in the anger/shock stage your main concern seems to be whether or not he will go NC on you. It looks like you're more than willing to keep accepting this behavior and honey, if that's the case, he knows. If you go and see your therapist and the conclusion is hes being a dirty dog, you have to change your mindset. You deserve to live your life anxiety free. I'm still on the fence about a lot of this, I hope you gain clarity with your therapist.

[Ksol9]

Figureitout you're absolutely correct. I did teach him that silence works. The other day we were talking and he was telling me about a co worker he had a problem with. He said he would just give him the silent treatment and that should resolve the problem. I immediately thought about what we went through. I don't know if he is cheating or has cheated. I found receipts to a known happy ending Asian massage establishment. Him and 2 other conworkers were there at 10pm at night. Then this morning I found 2 messages on Instagram that he sent to a couple women within minutes of eachother. He just seemed to be looking for some sort of excitement. There was nothing found to say he has cheated or is cheating. Just his lies and my speculation. My therapist warned me not to allow my mind to cross over the facts.

 

I think bolt said it perfectly....

 

You two talked about the condoms. He then goes ahead and refuses to add you on Facebook. He screams. You back down. Then, he goes ahead and patronizes a massage parlor that blatantly specializes in the "happy ending" massage and lies to you about it. He also proceeds to text other women while he's out of town. Conceals that from you. Screams at you when you ask him about it. Sleeps on the couch, slams things around in the morning, then leaves you alone in his home without even attempting to comfort you. Not even a "Honey, I know things are bad right now but I really want this to work. Can we talk later?" Nope, just leaves.

 

This sums it all up. If he is willing to walk away on this, which I think is exactly what is going to happen, then I need to think long and hard about how I proceed. This isn't the type of person I want to be with for the rest of my life. I don't think he cares if I go or stay. I think he is probably hoping I just go away on my own without him having to explain or have a conversation with me. I wanted to talk to him, but as I sit here and think, as I read your posts...it's not something that would be wise to do. I am worried about nc. I am worried about walking away without having a discussion. I'm worried that the same thing will happen as the email incident. After finding that email, I left. Packed all my things and left. I didn't talk to him for 6 weeks. Finally he contacted me apologizing and admitting he made a mistake. Stupidly, I ran right back. Again it wasn't hard for him to fix things. Then in January he ended it, I left and he let me go. I think this is going to happen again. If I don't reach out to him for some sort of closure or whatever it is I feel I need before leaving, I don't think I'll hear a word from him. I am taking all that every last one of you said here today and what my therapist says tomorrow very seriously. I'm listening carefully because I do believe I am in denial and shock. This man is up to no good as unchained said and I think I'm refusing to see it because I still want to see what he has to say.

 

Bolt, I also think the only thing that can maybe not resolve, but help us is couples counseling. As I'm typing I'm thinking about the messages he sent those women. He was fishing for attention just like he did the night he wrote the lush comment under the Facebook pictuee of that woman. He even went further and said..One time..that's it. He's playing games. Tell me if that is a man who is committed to saving his relationship. We just got back together. He's silent because he has nothing to say for himself and he will not have anything to say for himself. I don't want to go through what I went through all those times we were in nc. It is what I'm most concerned about, but I believe it is coming and I believe it is something I'm just going to have to endure once again and this time, I need to move on with my life. This time I don't think I can look past these recent things. Even if we were to speak, what could he tell me to help soothe what he did? What will make the lies sound better? What will make it better that he was going to a massage parlor late at night? What is going to explain those text messages? He's reckless. What more do I need to see? Do I want to drag myself only to get burned? I need help. I truly need help. I need to come to terms with this. I need to realize there is no hope for us. The relationship is too badly damaged and most importantly, he has no respect for me. He takes me for a joke and more than likely, if I was to go back, he will do much worse next time.

[Ksol9]

I just wanted to offer my hand and a hug of emotional support. You know what has to happen deep in your heart. I wouldn't try and text him until after your therapy appointment tomorrow. After all that I read, it's obvious this man is up to no good and has been for a long time. You just happen to want to make it work so badly you don't see any of it.

 

Ksol, I have a man in my life that's my best friend. He has absolutely all the freedom in the world to see other women, and yet he stays true to me. He has no Instagram, Facebook, and doesn't go to Asian massage parlors. He works with a group of guys in the IT department and can easily do whatever he wants to be "one of the guys." He doesn't do any of that, why? Because he is a good person and cares about me and my feelings.

 

I bring this up because my best friend is a classic example of a really good man, and there are good men out there. You love this man so much that the six billion other people in the world are invisible to you because you are stuck on this man. You may love each other, I have no doubt in that, but he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. He wants you there thinking you're crazy so he can get away with being a creep. I don't know him or what his intentions are, but NOT ALL MEN are like this.

 

Please accept my sincere love and hugs as you go through this hard time. It's important to remember all the facts as your therapist said. Condoms, Facebook, massage. These are three major events that happened in a short period of time. Keep your head on straight. YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. All your feelings and fears have validity. Just breathe and get through today, you will see your therapist tomorrow, no need to contact him today.

 

Take good care of yourself. You have all my support.

 

Thank you unchained. Thank for your support. I don't see any way around these incidents. They all add up to the fact that he's up to no good. This is not behavior of a man who wants to make a relationship work. I believe he was trying. I know he was, but his choice to do these things are his choices. He knows exactly what he is doing and he knows it's wrong. He hasn't said a word to me since this morning. What does that tell you? He will not admit he has done anything wrong. In his mind, I am the one who has dramatized all these issues. That they are not wrong in his eyes. He doesn't see going to a massage parlor as wrong because was JUST getting a massage. He doesn't see it was wrong to lie about it. He doesn't see the text messages as wrong because they are JUST friends. Same with the email, "I was JUST saying hi." He doesn't see anything wrong with his behavior. I must be crazy to be considering go over there to talk about this. If he doesn't see what he is doing then this is no different than any other time. How in his right mind does he think I am so insecure that I constantly look for things that aren't what they appear to be??? I feel really confused and maybe as lostlove said, that is exactly what he is trying to do...gaslight me. He really is making me question myself. I am not going crazy.

 

He has done so many senseless things to damage our relationship and his behavior shows that given the opportunity, he will sleep with someone else. He's obviously scouting around for it. I'm not mistaken. There is nothing to be mistaken about those messages and the massage parlor. I don't know what tomorrow will bring. I don't even know what next week will look like. A huge part of me wants to run over there and cry in his arms. I feel like I don't even know who he is. He's not the person who was trying so hard to show me he loved and cared for me. Just as bolt said, he walked out on me this morning. That speaks for itself. Unchained? How did I end up here again??

 

Thank you for the hugs...god knows I need them right now. I don't know how I'm going to get through the night. I'm in a lot of pain right now.

[Ksol9]

Figureitout: I think I have been blinded by this honeymoon stage we have been in. It sure looks like he wasn't in the euphoria I was in to have him back in my life or else he wouldn't have done those things. He's just a dirt bag. I'm getting angry at the things I saw today on his phone. He doesn't love me. Why do I want to fix this so bad? Am I that naive and stupid? This isn't love. This is a man who is manipulating me and fooling me very easily. I have not made it difficult for him at all. Everyone kept telling me this yet I ignored. It was like o couldn't control myself. I wanted to attach myself to him. There is something wrong with me. Onvioysly. To not be able to walk away from someone who is doing these things while out of town. There's something wrong with me and I need to figure it out very quickly.

 

Lostlove, I honestly think I'm in denial. I want to believe him. I want to settle when I know I shouldn't. Getting angry, leaving, going silent...you're right about this. This is the exact thing that has always happened during any conflict. I keep thinking that there is something I need to do differently to make sure we don't go down that road again when in reality I have done everything and he has done nothing. We are still going down the same road. I feel like a total fool. For such a smart woman, I've really done some stupid things and staying with this man is one of them. I do think he's going to end the relationship by going into silence. He will assume I'm done and I'll assume the same. Im just feeling like that is what's best this time. He's not a good person and I can't trust that he will ever do the right thing. Everything that happened today just threw all his credibility out the window. There's too much that happened in the last 7 weeks that say he's up to no good. He's not innocent by a long shot and this is too messy for us both. We're not going to make it. I don't know when my therapist is going to say. I think he is going to give me options in how to handle this as far as communication with him. I'm not sure if that will even be an option. I should really be to the point where I've reached my limit and I'm done. Line drawn, but I'm being very honest, I don't know why I'm still hanging on. This is not a good person.

[Ms Darcy]

I truly need help. I need to come to terms with this. I need to realize there is no hope for us. The relationship is too badly damaged and most importantly, he has no respect for me. He takes me for a joke and more than likely, if I was to go back, he will do much worse next time.

 

Change in bold to: I don't have enough respect for myself.

 

Fighting for something that isn't working isn't self respect. Walking away and staying away when it's not working is self respect.

 

When you can stop making this about him, you will really get somewhere.

[figureitout23]

Figureitout: I think I have been blinded by this honeymoon stage we have been in. It sure looks like he wasn't in the euphoria I was in to have him back in my life or else he wouldn't have done those things. He's just a dirt bag.

 

In that case you should do whats best for you and walk away.Luckily you're already in counseling so you can explore why you stayed on the roller coaster for a year. (no judgement, I regrettably did it for much longer) The honeymoon stage is amazing, but like I said its like trying to bandage a gushing wound and calling it good. From what you're saying it doesn't seem like hes willing to put in the same amount of work you are. Things are unbalanced and it seems youre stuck with the short end of the stick.I hope this isn't a repeat, I hope its a wake up call, if not for both of you at least for you.

[UnchainedSoul]

Thank you unchained. Thank for your support. I don't see any way around these incidents. They all add up to the fact that he's up to no good. This is not behavior of a man who wants to make a relationship work. I believe he was trying. I know he was, but his choice to do these things are his choices. He knows exactly what he is doing and he knows it's wrong. He hasn't said a word to me since this morning. What does that tell you? He will not admit he has done anything wrong. In his mind, I am the one who has dramatized all these issues. That they are not wrong in his eyes. He doesn't see going to a massage parlor as wrong because was JUST getting a massage. He doesn't see it was wrong to lie about it. He doesn't see the text messages as wrong because they are JUST friends. Same with the email, "I was JUST saying hi." He doesn't see anything wrong with his behavior. I must be crazy to be considering go over there to talk about this. If he doesn't see what he is doing then this is no different than any other time. How in his right mind does he think I am so insecure that I constantly look for things that aren't what they appear to be??? I feel really confused and maybe as lostlove said, that is exactly what he is trying to do...gaslight me. He really is making me question myself. I am not going crazy.

 

He has done so many senseless things to damage our relationship and his behavior shows that given the opportunity, he will sleep with someone else. He's obviously scouting around for it. I'm not mistaken. There is nothing to be mistaken about those messages and the massage parlor. I don't know what tomorrow will bring. I don't even know what next week will look like. A huge part of me wants to run over there and cry in his arms. I feel like I don't even know who he is. He's not the person who was trying so hard to show me he loved and cared for me. Just as bolt said, he walked out on me this morning. That speaks for itself. Unchained? How did I end up here again??

 

Thank you for the hugs...god knows I need them right now. I don't know how I'm going to get through the night. I'm in a lot of pain right now.

 

How did you end up here again? Because you're an honest kind person that REALLY tried REALLY hard. I mean everyone can say what they want, but the end of the day you have to ask yourself and tell yourself HOW HARD YOU TRIED. I have seen a lot of people give up and run, I have seen a lot of people stick it out, but it's time to ask yourself when is it enough? He walked out on you this morning as guilty as ever and as angry as ever, leaving you questioning yourself and your sanity.

 

But Mrs. Darcy is right, this isn't about him anymore. This is about YOU. It's time for you to be the smart woman that we all know you are. We don't what is going to happen tomorrow or next week, but all you know is you are left with yourself, AGAIN picking up all the pieces. He will always make excuses for his actions, no matter what they are, so you have to tell yourself as Mrs. Darcy said this is about walking away to stand up for yourself and give yourself back your self-respect which he robbed you of. You have to build yourself back up now. I know we talked about your other relationships on this thread and how they didn't work out, but this isn't about them anymore it's about YOU. These are obviously men that are no good for you. We all make mistakes sometimes when choosing a partner, you are still learning in that regard, learning about yourself and learning about what kind of man you need in your life. It's not him Ksol, it's not him. I think you know it now in your heart. You asked it yourself, how can you recover from this? With all his lies, can you recover from this? I know you are trying to hold on to hope, but if he doesn't agree to couples counseling, and doesn't attempt to contact you in any way, then you have your answer. As bolt said, no sugar coating it and running over there, Couples Counseling FIRST, before ANYTHING can be done. IF there is anything to salvage, because if he hasn't contacted you to at LEAST apologize, I think you may have your answer.

 

I do wish you the best Ksol. Again I offer my hugs and support to you. I know how hard it is to leave a bad situation especially when you put 200% of your heart into something, and you want it to work SO badly. Hang in there. Go to therapy tomorrow, try to rest. Tomorrow is another day.

[Ksol9]

I feel terrible. I woke up to this nightmare. I woke up thinking I just wanted to run over there. He's not the person I know. He's a stranger. I still can't believe this. The man who I love was at a massage parlor at 10 pm at night. Lied to me about it and said there's nothing wrong with it. Straight lied minutes before and after going. He sent messages to those women and forgot to delete the messages. How many others did he delete since getting back together? I want to talk to him, but he has not even attempted to contact me. That is an answer right there and he isn't going to contact me. He is going to leave this right where it is. If I never show up there, if I never text or call, he will stay silent like the coward he is and has always been. He's lost everything good in his life, it is nothing to him to lose me.

 

I'm very anxious to talk to my counselor. I know he will encourage me to talk away from this relationship. Anyone in their right mind who has my best interest at heart will tell me to walk away. This man is dangerous to deal with. He's a smooth, quiet, calculated liar. Very sneaky person. It seems like he was only behaving himself until he saw I was comfortable and when he saw he had control over the situation. Imagine he stood beside me in church. If I felt the trust issues we were dealing with before were difficult to deal with, this is mountainous. It seems impossible for sure. He has done the worst already in my mind. I don't think I've thought about the condition of where the level of trust is. It's on the floor in shambles. I don't think I'm really understanding that. I need to think about what my life will be if I were to accept this. I need to think about what my life will be everytome he goes out of town. In good times and in bad, he will easily betray me. Do I understand that things will only get worse? He doesn't have the resources to work through this. It seems like when he's out of town he loses all his morals and respect. Everything I feared about him going out of town is reality. I fail to realize I was right all along about my fears.

 

I'm still thinking about talking to him about this and I even question myself in doing so. I think it was figureitout that said he KNOWS he has full control over this situation and that I will forgive. I can bet he's home telling himself he's the angry and hurt one. That I'll never change. That I'll never stop snooping and bring insecure. That he didn't do anything wrong. I just don't feel right about leaving this the way it is. I feel that deep in my heart. Deep in my heart I want to run over there. I just remembered something. When I went to the hotel with him for work, both times, I smelled marijuana. I didn't see him smoke but I assumed it was one of the other guys. Both visits he had purchased a bottle of whiskey and they all were drinking throughout the night. The reason for bringing this up, they must all smoke, drink, get high, and look for a good time while out of town away from their families. Here I was enjoying his company when the night before he was getting sexual favor from an Asian lady in a massage parlor. I understand those are not facts but I'm no fool. What I'm trying to say is that I've seen enough and know enough factors that say this man is not good. He's not innocently traveling for work. He's just looking for a good time. He isn't serious about his life at all. He knows we were working on trust issues. Why be so careless to do things to jeopardize that trust? That alone should show me how much he cares about me. I feel so sick to my stomach right now....3 guys going to get sexual favors from a massage parlor at night...I'm so disgusted. He's a cheat and a liar. They go hand in hand. Since that is the lifestyle he is living and wants, he can have it. He can have massage parlors, happy endings, Facebook chats, all the things he finds interest in right now minus me. He can't keep a good woman like me with his "piss poor performance". (Words he uses all the time about his coworkers.) I don't know if I'm hurt or angry. I don't know what I am. Shock probably.

 

I really don't feel right about any of this. His actions and us being in silence. I feel like he's manipulative at its finest. Everyone else can see he is a pos. There is not questioning that. Right before my eyes..receipts and messages. I shouldn't need explanations or anything more. I should have more self respect. I'm sure my therapist will say this tomorrow. I'm not over-reacting. I'm not letting my insecurities take over. When I told my mother about all of this, she asked why he was so reckless? Did he want to get caught? With all the evidence he left there. I think he was just very comfortable. He's too confident about my love for him. He knows me very well and he knows I'm in love with him and what lengths I will go to to keep him. That is why I haven't heard from him. Bolt said it well...he wants me to fix this and if he doesn't...then..well..there's my answer like you said.

 

You know when he's going to respect me?? When I respect myself enough to walk away...when I'm done with him for real. God knows I need strength and courage. I need you all to support me and help me through this. I know you all are telling me what is best for me. I can't explain the feeling going on inside of me. It's like a burning building where everyone inside is scattering trying to save their own life. I want to run to him and hide in his arms. He's the devil. I want to hide in the devil'S arms. I honestly see him as a damaged person. Very damaged. And he wants me to be damaged like him. That's why he makes me feel like I'm insecure and wrong. I told him he was ruining my life, but in actuality, I'm ruining my own by staying.

 

Couples counseling is an option for me. I do think its the only was to save whatever is left, BUT after what happened I'm really doubtful he will let down his defenses and admit there is a problem. I believe he is going to stand firm that I am the one who is wrong and he will not do any of this. I can bet if him and I speak again, he will not agree to counseling. I think he wants all those things either to fool me or to fool himself. Someone has to acknowledge and want to change in order for things to change. I don't think he fits either of those. He's just a simple cheat. He's not looking for an emotional and sexual affair. He's just looking for variety and a good time. Would someone like that want to change his life? No. That is what he wants and he is enjoying his life in this manner. I'm assuming he doesn't care to lose this relationship because I am predicting I will not hear from him again. If I am wrong, then I think you all are right. Couples counseling first. I don't think an apology is anyehere near the tip of his tongue. We all know from past history, he will never admit wrongdoing. Blame, blame, blame ksol. I can bet he won't agree to couples counseling solely because he knows any smart individual will see his jig. Manipulation and.blame. Only weak idiots like me fall for that.

 

I don't know what to say or feel. This is my worst nightmare coming to life.

[boltnrun]

You aren't a weak idiot. You just really, really want him. And you're willing to do just about anything to keep him. You're not the first woman to do this and you won't be the last.

 

I just would like for you to love yourself more.

[Ksol9]

Bolt, o really hope I can do the right thing. I really do. I'm in so much pain. I dont have a future with this man. We have no future together. I can bet my last dime he had this same exact problem in his relationship with the children's mother. He can't change and won't. I will continue to have problems just like this one if I try to save this relationship. I think I know deep down inside I have to let it go, but something has me holding on. I know I can't make it right. I really hope therapy helps me in some way today. I hope it gives me some sort of direction. I know there isn't a soul on he planet that can tell me what is right for me. I know ultimately I have to make that decision. He walked out on me yesterday when I confronted him about all these things. Before I even said anything about the Instagram messages, he was already stomping around packing his bag to run. When I confronted about the messages, he forgot about everything and just took off after saying a bunch of craziness. He hasn't said a word to me since. I'm not surprised by that. it should show me he isn't willing to save anything. He let me go plenty of times before. He will do it again. Maybe the best thing I can do for myself is to stay away. This is going to be painful either way...whether we speak or not. The anxiety isn't going anywhere because the events already happened and I will worry regardless. There isn't anything that is going to soothe this pain. I just have to make up my mind that I'm moving on and move through this pain. I have to prepare myself for months and months of pain once again. I have to prepare myself to continue working on myself. I have to mentally prepare today. I keep waking up to this nightmare. This relationship has been nothing short of a nightmare since the first breakup.

[boltnrun]

Perhaps you can shift the focus of your therapy from trying to save your relationship with him to trying to do what is good and right for you.

 

Please try to do this. All the stress and fear and anxiety can do a number on your physical health.

 

And remember...the source of the pain is never the cure for the pain.

[Ksol9]

Thank you bolt. I really don't know what I would do with you and everyone else here. I genuinely mean that. I'm trying to get through the morning. I'm running errands for my dad and will have to go back to the office to do some paperwork before my therapy appointment.

 

My life isn't meant to be wasted like this. I was given a beautiful life and I just want enjoy it with someone who loves me, respects me, and will not betray me. I know I'm among plenty of women who are trying to accomplish the same thing, but I don't ask for much. I have so much to give. I don't know him. I really don't know him anymore. The happiness I had with him wasn't real. It's gone and I don't think after this things will ever be the same. I don't even think therapy will salvage. It's broken far beyond repair. God knows I need strength and courage to let it go. This has to end. I have to make a change in my life. I just can't do this anymore. I can't take it anymore.

[Ms Darcy]

You asked somewhere what you could have done. I personally think if you were still in no contact, you would be sad but you would be on your way to moving on.

 

Time and therapy and self care would have gotten you through.

 

So when it came that you wanted to, and were advised to, contact him, I thought it was bad advice to be honest.

 

There's no short cut. When you end an on/off relationships, you have to get to the place of staying away no matter how much it hurts.

 

It sounds like your therapist gives you options moreso than advises you on what to do. There's value on that obviously. It means you are responsible for ALL of your decisions and cannot blame him. I would advise you to ask him to focus on helping you leave and working on the belief that there is a healthy relationship out there for you.

[lostlove76]

Hi ksol. Just wanted to send my thoughts and say that I hope your therapy appointment today helps in some way. I have to work today, so I probably can't comment until later tonight. But I'll check in for updates while I'm at work. Sending hugs. Xoxo

[Ksol9]

Hi lostlove, thank you for checking in. I always appreciate hearing from you. Therapy went well. I'm going to be back later to explain more in detail. He was able to validate all that I'm feeling. I don't feel confused as to if he is up to no good or not. He's absolutely up to no good and does these things because he knows he can. I wouldn't be wise for me to look for a resolution by contacting him. He asked me to sit on it right now. Stabilize my emotions. My point is...I know this was wrong and as silly as it sounds, I was questioning that, doubting myself. At the very least this man has lied to me numerous times. He lied about gong to the parlor. That alone says he is not trustworthy....at the very least. My therapist said he absolutely has a problem because these behaviors are like the blaming is apart of manipulation and abuse. He also told me that he knows he has full control over me and knows I will come right back. i just don't know why I can't make up my mind right this minute to walk away and never worry about him ever again. This is never going to be ok. I've made it very easy for him in the past. After weeks of silence all he has to do is ride back in and scoop me up. I'm not a puppet. I need to get out of this shock and denial very soon. I still have not heard from him and that alone says what kind of person I'm dealing with. If he cared and wanted to do the right thing, he would have something to say for himself.

 

I'll be back later to write. Enjoy your day at work.

[browneyedgirl36]

ksol, I see that a lot of others have weighed in already and I'm not sure how much I have to add, but I will at least echo what some of the others have said.

 

When I read the first message about the 56 missed calls from a restricted number, my red flag meter went through the roof. No one, not even the most aggressive robo-call telemarketer, calls that many times in a day unless something is really, really, really wrong. When I saw that the calls were from his co-worker's girlfriend, I thought it was even MORE suspicious -- not less -- and I was surprised that you accepted his explanation so readily (though I find it odd that he actually agreed to install that app, but I can think of some reasons why he might have). And, in fact, the coworker's girlfriend was calling because she was frantically trying to get a hold of her boyfriend because she knew he was doing something inappropriate. And then, the receipt, his "explanation," the messages on his phone...all of this, PLUS the condom thing, PLUS the Facebook thing...some of these, on their own, could POSSIBLY be dismissed as "paranoia," but taken altogether...nope. As the old saying goes, "you're not paranoid if they're REALLY after you." All his screaming, getting in your face, lame excuses, blaming you, telling you you're crazy, etc....smokescreen. He WANTS you to think this is your fault. He WANTS you to think you're paranoid. Maybe I shouldn't go so far as to say this, but I will anyway: It seems like he's gaslighting you, in a sense -- doing all this bad stuff to sabotage your relationship but making YOU feel as if YOU'RE the one sabotaging it.

 

Please, please read this carefully: You. Are. Not. Crazy. His. Actions. Are. Shady. I know you know this, but it seems like you're still at least half listening to what he's saying, somehow, at least half blaming yourself for what's happening here. His actions are NOT those of a man committed to making a serious relationship work. The are NOT the actions of an honest, faithful man.

 

Honestly, the fact that he screams at you until you're sobbing -- and he's doing it more than once recently -- is enough in itself to walk away from this. It's borderline abusive. And, the rest? Definitely enough reason to walk away. I'm just going to say flat out that, for your own safety, sanity, and well-being, I think you should walk away. He is inherently dishonest, among other things, as well as volatile and an extremely poor communicator. That, and I'm reasonably certain he's a sex addict. There are too many little signs to ignore here.

 

I beg you to re-consider any thoughts you have of continuing this. At the very least, he's terrible relationship/partner material. At worst, well...I think you're getting a glimpse of what is just the tip of the iceberg. Please stop thinking of him and start thinking of YOU.

 

I say all of this with the utmost support for you. I know how you are feeling -- I felt it too (but I have to give my ex credit for never screaming at me or telling me I was crazy, though he WAS a liar and a cheater!) I am in your corner, as are all of these other fine people here. We want you to be happy. This situation, if you remain in it, will get you exactly the opposite.

 

EDITED TO ADD: I think my signature line, below, definitely applies here. I think you've been deciding against yourself because you think what hurts you is helping you in some way. It isn't. I promise you.

[Ksol9]

Hi beg, thank you for writing.

 

This is exactly what was spoken about in therapy. My therapist said he is even very surprised that he didn't cover his tracks. He said he finds it odd in all his years of experience that he would leave so much evidence around. He wondered how 2 receipts ended up in his traveling bag in the side pocket. If he lied and did not want me to know (I'm at his house more than mine) how does he leave the establishment with the receipts and put it in his overnight bag? Wouldn't he put it in his pocket or in his truck at best...at which point he would discard them. Why take them from your pocket or truck, go into the hotel, and put them in your side pocket of the traveling bag? A place where there wasn't even clothing. Beg, I do believe all these events put together make him look (not look...he is) very bad and what I can prove from all of it is that he is an untrustworthy person. The Facebook issue was the first major red flag in my opinion. Then the calls from the co workers gf. She was frantically calling until 2 am because she knew. I feel so bad. All these things point to a man who is not serious about his commitment to me. Even if he didn't get the happy ending...he lied to me. How do you explain the Instagram messages? He was messaging women saying things that didn't even make sense. He was poking hoping they would reciprocate. In my opinion, he was looking for sex. His behavior is extremely sketchy and he blatantly blamed me for it. He denied every last one of his actions and said he didn't do anything wrong. I am not going crazy and all the other people who I've explained this to don't think I'm going crazy either. Anyone in this position would run. If he still thinks I am to blame for this craziness and that he has done nothing wrong then I really think I am dealing with someone who has a mental problem...or some sort of problem. Normal healthy people don't do this. I do think you're right about the smokescreen....and to be very honest, it's working. I am doubting myself and I am questioning if I am even making a bigger deal of this than I should. Something inside just won't let me be ok with this. He went there to get a happy ending...the $40 charge says so in my mind. The messages sent through instagram are a prime example of his inappropriate behavior..it's the exact reason I was so upset he did not add me on facebook. Exactly what I was so "insecure" about is exactly what happened. Put everything that happened together and it is exactly as I feared...he was hiding our relationship because he was just playing games when he felt like it. He might not have had sex or got a happy ending...but if the opportunity presented itself, he'd absolutely do it and all the facts that I have found say so. This is a really bad position for me to be in.

 

Please, please read this carefully: You. Are. Not. Crazy. His. Actions. Are. Shady. I know you know this, but it seems like you're still at least half listening to what he's saying, somehow, at least half blaming yourself for what's happening here. His actions are NOT those of a man committed to making a serious relationship work. The are NOT the actions of an honest, faithful man.

 

You're exactly right here. These are not actions of a man who is committed to making things work at all. This is someone who isn't serious about anything. I don't know how in his right mind does he think I am to blame or that I am the one who is wrong or dramatizing it all. He was manipulating me. I don't know if he still feels that or if he knows he messed up and that is why he is silent, but the silence to me signifies someone who doesn't think they did anything wrong and is sticking to his story. His behavior is very shady.

 

I've decided not to contact him. I am just trying to get through each day. Tomorrow I'll have to convince myself of the same. I think it's best I stay away. There is nothing he can say to justify these actions nor do I think he would admit to anything, take accountability, and ask for help. That's like asking for a miracle. I am curious to know why you think he may be a sex addict? The reason I ask is because this has crossed my mind as well. Someone who has a girlfriend that is around so much, spending the night, it just doesn't make sense for him to be searching around like this. The massage parlor..the messages..maybe he is. What type of men visit these kinds of places to begin with? Is that normal? I feel like a normal man looking to cheat is meeting women at bars or meeting women online, ect. What am I saying? A cheater is a cheater regardless of how they do it.

 

I will be making an appointment to get myself tested. I need the peace of mind. As for speaking to him...I'm being very honest. I am bargaining and I don't want to. I want to talk to him and I know it wouldn't be right. I am going to fight all those thoughts and just sit still. I am going to try to occupy myself the best I can. He hasn't contacted me so I am not worried about responding to any text messages. I wish this was easy for me. I keep saying there is something wrong with me because any other woman would just walk away and never look back after something like this. The condoms, facebook, massage parlor, the instagram messages...that is alot to happen in such a short time. It all adds up and it doesn't look good on his behalf. When I weigh all of these things, it is not in my best interest at all to pursue any kind of communication with him. I need to remind myself of this.

 

Beg, there have indeed been alot of red flags. I know it's very early to say, but I believe I will not hear from him at all and I say this because of past history. He knows I want to be with him and I believe he feels silence does the trick well. He knows he can go silent for a long time and then he lifts his finger and I come running back. I don't want to contact him even though I have been contemplating. If there is no communication between us, this will go away on it's own eventually. I will continue therapy and I will move on this time. I can't go back to him...not after all of this. We cant survive this and I can bet he won't seek counseling if he did want to save the relationship. I don't think him and I are going to take another shot at things after what happened yesterday.

 

I saved what you wrote in your last paragraph. I have been told this by other posters. He IS the source of my pain and anxiety. He IS doing wrong here. I shouldn't go against the facts. I will continue to hurt myself if I do. He will break my heart again if given the chance.

[Ms Darcy]

The only reason I would caution saying "he is the source of my pain" is IF you have this pattern with men. If you do have this kind of unhealthy pattern, AND continually make it about the specifics of what the guy is doing, it is critically important to look at yourself.

 

In other words, you'll just be running to the next guy who is just like this and you will never find someone who actually wants to marry you and be faithful to you.

[boltnrun]

Just be prepared, ksol.

 

Remember the drive-bys near your work, the car wash, I think there was even a restaurant thrown in there somewhere? He probably will not directly contact you, but he'll do the things he did before...you know, the things that convinced you he missed you and loved you and wanted you back. The things that you viewed as indirect "contact" because he wanted to reconcile. The things you convinced yourself he did because he was "hurting".

 

Please know that he'll probably do those things again. Why? No, not because he just loves you so gosh darned much. He's had the opportunity to cultivate and care for your relationship and he chose not to. He'll do those things because they worked before. They got you back into his home, his bed, his life. So, I strongly believe he'll try it again.

 

It seems like your eyes are opened now. But remember, (and I can't remember who said this quote), "there are none so blind as those who REFUSE to see". If you really, really want him more than anything else in the world then you will go back for round 4. If you're on to him and his tactics, well, they won't work.

 

But please...please consider loving yourself first. Please consider never again subjecting yourself to the pain, anxiety, fear, panic, etc. that this man puts you through.

 

You have a lot of love to give to the right man. But I'm sorry, this man doesn't appear to be the right one.

[Ksol9]

This is true Ms. Darcy. I have to figure out what is going on with me. What is it that is making me want to stay or why I find myself in relationships like this.

 

I'm sorry, I don't even know if I'm making sense right now. I'm reading and trying to understand, but I don't even know anything right now. My emotions are all over the place and I just don't know what to do. I've been spinning around in circles.

 

I think he is the source of my pain right now. I need to do alot of work to make sure I don't end up in another unhealthy relationship again. You said...continually making it about the specifics about what the guy is doing. Do you think this has to do with my self fulfilled prophecies? I mean I kept searching until I found exactly what I was looking for.

 

This is so confusing. I wish I knew how to make it better. I can't take this anymore. I'm going to go insane.

[Ms Darcy]

You asked somewhere what you could have done. I personally think if you were still in no contact, you would be sad but you would be on your way to moving on.

 

Time and therapy and self care would have gotten you through.

 

So when it came that you wanted to, and were advised to, contact him, I thought it was bad advice to be honest.

 

There's no short cut. When you end an on/off relationships, you have to get to the place of staying away no matter how much it hurts.

 

It sounds like your therapist gives you options moreso than advises you on what to do. There's value on that obviously. It means you are responsible for ALL of your decisions and cannot blame him. I would advise you to ask him to focus on helping you leave and working on the belief that there is a healthy relationship out there for you.

[Ksol9]

Hi bolt.

Remember the drive-bys near your work, the car wash, I think there was even a restaurant thrown in there somewhere? He probably will not directly contact you, but he'll do the things he did before...you know, the things that convinced you he missed you and loved you and wanted you back. The things that you viewed as indirect "contact" because he wanted to reconcile. The things you convinced yourself he did because he was "hurting".

 

Please know that he'll probably do those things again. Why? No, not because he just loves you so gosh darned much. He's had the opportunity to cultivate and care for your relationship and he chose not to. He'll do those things because they worked before. They got you back into his home, his bed, his life. So, I strongly believe he'll try it again.

 

This is what I realize now. I don't believe he was missing me or that he loved me so much that he wanted to get me back into his life. Those things worked then, but now I have a whole new view of him. I really think he is controlling and manipulative. Just because he doesn't put his hands on me doesn't mean these behaviors are not abusive.

 

It seems like your eyes are opened now. But remember, (and I can't remember who said this quote), "there are none so blind as those who REFUSE to see". If you really, really want him more than anything else in the world then you will go back for round 4. If you're on to him and his tactics, well, they won't work.

 

My eyes are open. I have too many people who are keeping me in touch with reality and reminding me along the way. That is why I am here and that is why I am in therapy. I want to do the right thing, BUT I do love this man and I wish things could work. I wish things were different. That is why I am giving myself a little bit of time to catch up. I hope to realize there is nothing to save, that he is no good for me, and that we have no future. He will only hurt me again. I believe this is going to happen just like all the other times in terms of silence. I don't believe I will be hearing from him at all and I know I will be working diligently to try to forget him. I have to. I want to contact him...I'm being very honest, but I can't find it in myself to do that right now. He betrayed me so badly this time. What kind of fool would I be to contact him when he is the one who did wrong? We're both going to let this go. I really can't take it anymore. I'm not getting anywhere in life with him. Another round isn't going to change things either.

 

But please...please consider loving yourself first. Please consider never again subjecting yourself to the pain, anxiety, fear, panic, etc. that this man puts you through.

 

I'm trying. I'm trying so hard to put myself first. To respect myself. Thank you for saying this.

[Ksol9]

You asked somewhere what you could have done. I personally think if you were still in no contact, you would be sad but you would be on your way to moving on.

 

Time and therapy and self care would have gotten you through.

 

So when it came that you wanted to, and were advised to, contact him, I thought it was bad advice to be honest.

 

There's no short cut. When you end an on/off relationships, you have to get to the place of staying away no matter how much it hurts.

 

It sounds like your therapist gives you options moreso than advises you on what to do. There's value on that obviously. It means you are responsible for ALL of your decisions and cannot blame him. I would advise you to ask him to focus on helping you leave and working on the belief that there is a healthy relationship out there for you.

 

 

This is true Ms. Darcy. I am responsible for myself and I put aside all the red flags and warnings and still went after what I wanted. I wanted to be with him. I took a very bad risk knowing the consequences. I knew the chances of it failing were very high and I still went ahead. I was very stubborn. There is no short cut..you're right. It looks like there is no way around this. I was in shock and denial and I still am I think. My biggest fear was having to face this NC thing again and that is what looks like the direction this is headed. There really is no other option. I'm scared to make any move whatsoever. I'm just scared.

[lostlove76]

Hi ksol. Everyone is giving wonderful advice, so I don't know that I have anything new to add. I agree with most everything that's been said. This new stuff certainly does put the condom and Facebook issues in a new light. I think you now have plenty of evidence to know that it's not a case of your insecurities getting the best of you. Everything put together paints a picture that you can't trust him. I know that part of you still wants to fix things with him, but I don't think you could ever trust him again after this, especially with him going out of town. You may want him to call and make it all feel better (like I've so desperately wanted with mine, even after everything that happened), but it really wouldn't fix anything. It would just draw you in again and keep you stuck.

 

I have a different opinion of having contacted him and tried again. I think it was necessary, because now you KNOW what kind of person he is. I think if you had stayed NC, you would still be waiting and wishing for him to call, still be struggling with whether to make contact yourself. You would still be thinking things could be worked out, given all the work you had done. You would still be feeling the deep pain of silence. But you gave it another go, and you saw first-hand what happened. You can now attempt to move forward knowing that the same cycle repeated itself, and that there was nothing you could have or should have done differently. I hope that brings you at least some bit of peace.

 

One more thing I wanted to say is that one reason it's taken me so long to get over mine is that I kept waiting for him to come to his senses and make contact. I think if you focus on the fact that he isn't calling, it's going to be much more difficult to move forward. This time, I would suggest trying to focus on all the reasons it didn't, and couldn't, work, and try to feel solid in your belief that it needed to end. Don't wait for Round 4, and don't view this as a temporary period of NC. View it as the end, and I think you'll be better off. The other thing that has made it so difficult for me, of course, is the fact that I kept up with what he was doing with all these other girls. It put images in my head, and I would have been a lot better off not even knowing. I can say this in hindsight, but couldn't really control the need or want to know at the time... so I know it's not easy to stay away from his social media, but if you could, I do think you'll be better off.

 

I'm really sorry this happened. I'm sorry that some guys are so stupid and such selfish jacka$$$es. He had no good reason to do what he did. That's on him and the kind of person he is, not on you. You deserve better.

 

Sending more hugs

[Ms Darcy]

I need to only stick my hand in a steaming hot pot of water twice to know I should stop. Not three or four times.

 

I'll go so far as to say how does anyone heal from a relationship that ends badly without getting back together? People go through the pain of self-reflection and time away. It takes time. It takes work. Often, it takes no contact.

 

But, honestly, this issue seems substantively similar to past issues. At least that's my observation.

 

Having said that, if this situation moves you out of the yearlong+ denial, then yes it's a good thing. But denial is strong with this one.